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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Douglas, absolutely agree about Manilla and 8th, the most desperately needed location in the area!

I have emailed the HPNA board and see if they can follow up with Candice. Hopefully its not too late to have it added.

Also agree that the new stop sign on 8th at McWilliams is not necessary, the way those roads merge is very wide with open sight lines, its just not necessary.

Robin.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 21:34
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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How could there not be a stop sign at 8th Street and Manila? Cars speed through 8th and 7th to beat the lights at 6th and Manila!

I think they have overdone the stop sign thing. Why do you need one at Erie and Pavonia...oh that's right...guess?

I do like the stop sign at 8th and Jersey, but why do you need one at 8th (going west on 8th) and McWilliams Place?

Another bad stop sign is at Jersey (on Jersey) and First Street right before the light at Newark Avenue, that one is terrible..what..we need to see Left Bank Burger....that sign is terrible.


Posted on: 2013/11/25 21:03
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Just noticed the 8th & McWilliams stop. Classic example of an unnecessary one. Not only is there fairly little traffic down McW, but any pedestrian wanting a stop to cross 8th can walk 1/2 block to the stops at either Jersey or Erie (even the few who might live on that block).

Another thing I've always felt was unnecessary friction in the stop sign dance is their habit of putting the "do not enter" signs on the back of the stop signs, obscuring their presence, so you can't tell at a glance looking at the intersecting road whether they have a stop or not. The "2 way" etc markers are often absent, and even when present it feels better to keep your eyes in the direction of traffic.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 20:55
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Quote:

eggzbenedict wrote:
The one on Jersey and York (headed south) is especially dangerous. Its completely obscured by a tree.

Funny how we can say adding more stop signs is a dangerous thing and be totally right. Only in JC.

Lets be honest though, people don't pay attention to stop signs they already know exist.


whew, Ok so this stop sign is new. I saw it out of the corner of my every as I passed it, and thought I had been running through it all these months not having seen it.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 19:42
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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JCbiscuit wrote:
if you've been reading Candice's replies, you'd know that pylons and speed humps are on the way.


I know that now, and am encouraged. I also don't mean to sound like all was bad, in fact I think Monmouth & 7th and Jersey & 8th were probably due, as a couple of the very few uncontrolled E-W blocks Downtown. But that's consistency, rather than randomness.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 17:52
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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I started this thread 43 posts ago and I'm glad to see the generally like-minded opinions as well as continuing adjustments to the "plan" by our councilwoman.

I agree with Brewster: This wasn't a plan at all. Traffic flow is horrible and poorly thought out. It isn't rocket science, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do this. And this is just plain wrong in so many ways.

I agree with Vigilante: Yielding to pedestrians IS an issue, if not the original one on this thread. And unmarked and possibly sign-obscured intersections sure don't help.

And I agree with Cousin that drivers who stop where no sign has ever existed just drive you nuts! As for phones, well don't get me started! If the Police Dept. wanted to make their monthly quota on tickets all they'd need is 2 officers on Jersey Ave near Montgomery ON FOOT for an hour or two during rush hours and they probably couldn't write tickets fast enough to catch half of the scofflaws.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 17:24
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Thank you. This is the only post that actually makes sense to me. One of the biggest problems I encounter driving or walking downtown are motorists who stop when they don't have a stop sign. This confuses and surprises the drivers behind them (possibly causing a collision), it slows down traffic needlessly by causing confusing on the part of the motorist waiting at the stop sign (if there even is a stopped motorist waiting), and creates further confusion and wait time for walkers (not zombies) waiting to cross. Then we have hesittation on everyone's part wasting eveyone's time while everyone stares at each other trying to figure out why someone would stop when they don't have a signal to do so. City officials probably just see that most drivers are distracted by their cell phones anyway and should probably just just stop at every corner (so everyone can just finish their texts).

Posted on: 2013/11/25 14:18
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I disagree. I have seen people blow by pedestrians trying to cross at Pavonia and Monmouth. People walking with kids and dogs and elderly folks are routinely put in harms way at that intersection. Cars fly up Monmouth at speeds exceeding 35mph once they have cleared the Stop sign streets. They also fly down Coles coming from Hoboken. I drive a lot but I say too bad for the inconvenience, it has to be done.


I hear you, but down that road lies every single intersection in town being an all way stop. Hoboken has done wonders to give pedestrians more right of way and calm traffic without putting stops at every corner, such as, humps, the "pedestrian crossing" pylons in the road, and areas where there's stops every other block. I think just randomly throwing in stops is a heavy handed and unthoughtful solution, and doesn't increase general mindfulness of pedestrians as the Hoboken measures have, leading to full stop sign saturation as the only solution.


if you've been reading Candice's replies, you'd know that pylons and speed humps are on the way.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 7:11
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Brewster I'm not disagreeing with you, but I have to ask: have you attended the meetings on pedestrian safety? Your thoughts and suggestions would go a lot further at these meetings.

That, or emailing Candice directly. It's worth the time because they've been very receptive.

Look it's not perfect; it's a work in progress. But it IS progress, and it's welcome.

Get involved in your neighborhood association (if you're not already), and make your suggestions known.

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brewster wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I disagree. I have seen people blow by pedestrians trying to cross at Pavonia and Monmouth. People walking with kids and dogs and elderly folks are routinely put in harms way at that intersection. Cars fly up Monmouth at speeds exceeding 35mph once they have cleared the Stop sign streets. They also fly down Coles coming from Hoboken. I drive a lot but I say too bad for the inconvenience, it has to be done.


I hear you, but down that road lies every single intersection in town being an all way stop. Hoboken has done wonders to give pedestrians more right of way and calm traffic without putting stops at every corner, such as, humps, the "pedestrian crossing" pylons in the road, and areas where there's stops every other block. I think just randomly throwing in stops is a heavy handed and unthoughtful solution, and doesn't increase general mindfulness of pedestrians as the Hoboken measures have, leading to full stop sign saturation as the only solution.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 22:51
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Vigilante wrote:
I disagree. I have seen people blow by pedestrians trying to cross at Pavonia and Monmouth. People walking with kids and dogs and elderly folks are routinely put in harms way at that intersection. Cars fly up Monmouth at speeds exceeding 35mph once they have cleared the Stop sign streets. They also fly down Coles coming from Hoboken. I drive a lot but I say too bad for the inconvenience, it has to be done.


I hear you, but down that road lies every single intersection in town being an all way stop. Hoboken has done wonders to give pedestrians more right of way and calm traffic without putting stops at every corner, such as, humps, the "pedestrian crossing" pylons in the road, and areas where there's stops every other block. I think just randomly throwing in stops is a heavy handed and unthoughtful solution, and doesn't increase general mindfulness of pedestrians as the Hoboken measures have, leading to full stop sign saturation as the only solution.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 22:43
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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brewster wrote:
Sorry to be a pooper, but I think this scattershot dropping of stop signs wherever someone complained is the wrong approach. If a stop could be installed "accidentally" at 1st and Jersey due to a communications error by Ms. Osborne, that seem to clearly indicate this was NOT extensively planned, but was a haphazard appeasement of squeaky wheels. There's actually professionals who study traffic movement, and there's no way that our avenues (those N-S roads traversing the short blocks) having one stop right after another like we now have is the best solution. No sane traffic planner does this, it just makes getting around nightmarish. Spacing them out so there's no "speedway" does make sense.

We travel the intersection of Monmouth and Coles ever day by foot, car and bike, and saw no need there. There's stops at 8th and 6th, it was not a speedway. Now there's 4 consecutive stops on short blocks. That's simply stupid. And while there's been some intersections with repeated accidents, many of these don't meet that description.

Were there enforcement of stopping, speeding and actually knowing how to drive, these new signs would not be necessary. It's always been a trial at every stop because of the people who either don't stop, stop when they have no sign and pathetically wave the person who does to go, or don't know the rules of multiway stops and when it's actually their turn (which encourages those who run the stops). Now that's going to be multiplied. Oh goody.


I disagree. I have seen people blow by pedestrians trying to cross at Pavonia and Monmouth. People walking with kids and dogs and elderly folks are routinely put in harms way at that intersection. Cars fly up Monmouth at speeds exceeding 35mph once they have cleared the Stop sign streets. They also fly down Coles coming from Hoboken. I drive a lot but I say too bad for the inconvenience, it has to be done.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 20:26
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Sorry to be a pooper, but I think this scattershot dropping of stop signs wherever someone complained is the wrong approach. If a stop could be installed "accidentally" at 1st and Jersey due to a communications error by Ms. Osborne, that seem to clearly indicate this was NOT extensively planned, but was a haphazard appeasement of squeaky wheels. There's actually professionals who study traffic movement, and there's no way that our avenues (those N-S roads traversing the short blocks) having one stop right after another like we now have is the best solution. No sane traffic planner does this, it just makes getting around nightmarish. Spacing them out so there's no "speedway" does make sense.

We travel the intersection of Monmouth and Coles ever day by foot, car and bike, and saw no need there. There's stops at 8th and 6th, it was not a speedway. Now there's 4 consecutive stops on short blocks. That's simply stupid. And while there's been some intersections with repeated accidents, many of these don't meet that description.

Were there enforcement of stopping, speeding and actually knowing how to drive, these new signs would not be necessary. It's always been a trial at every stop because of the people who either don't stop, stop when they have no sign and pathetically wave the person who does to go, or don't know the rules of multiway stops and when it's actually their turn (which encourages those who run the stops). Now that's going to be multiplied. Oh goody.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 20:01
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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dtjcview wrote:
Thanks for sharing. I guess there are a lot of factors making that intersection dangerous, and a stop sign there makes sense. My concern was more about why there wasn't another stop sign calming the speeding nearer the Atrium. What has been happening on Monmouth is that there has only been one stop sign between Newark and 13th and people floor it after 7th. They'll now floor it after 8th. Ever watch the senior citizens and folks in wheelchairs try to cross Monmouth near the Atrium? If there is traffic, they can't.


I walk Monmouth and Brunswick daily? I know exactly what you are talking about.

There is a very strong argument for stop signs at every intersection up Monmouth as they did with Brunswick and now we have an audience at city hall willing to listen to the residents and take action. Now is the time to capitalize on this momentum and push for more signs, humps and paint any place they are still needed. The Pulaski Skyway is due to close in March and we better get prepared for a big increase in commuter traffic downtown.

? and that building at 9th and Brunswick across the street from A1 Storage is going to be a 143 unit building.
http://leelevinearchitects.com/portfolio/planning/11/

Posted on: 2013/11/24 19:47
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Normaly the north bound traffic on Jersey would stop because of the T in the road. You don't really think of stopping at 8th & Jersey when driving on 8th St. due to the park being on the 8th st. side of the road. They should put 4 way stop signs up...on both sides especially the left. Biking down 8th before the new stop sign I was hesitant on making a left turn onto Jersey Ave. fearing that Jersey Ave traffic would blow the stop sign.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 18:52
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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I'm really glad to see the new signs at 7th and 8th & Monmouth, but I have seen a few people blow through them. Until the paint is on the asphalt, I think a lot of people who haven't realized they exist are going to keep breezing through.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 16:11
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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+1 You take your life in your hand when you drive up or down 10th Street at Monmouth.
There should be a three-way stop at the corner of Monmouth & 10th.
dtjcview wrote:
[snip]
There should really be one at Monmouth & Pavonia or 9/10th. Pavonia is 2-way, it's the main connection between HP and Enos Jones parks for foot and bicycle traffic, plus there a lot of Atrium visitors and ambulances pulling out at 9th. Monmouth and 10th is an accident blackspot - the one-way changes to a 2-way in all directions, and the dip on Monmouth creates blind-spots for traffic on 10th.

[snip]

Posted on: 2013/11/24 15:31
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Next is actual parking enforcement. Hard to see around the corners with cars parked inches from the crosswalk. If residents cannot find parking well its time to start paying for it in a garage.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 5:25
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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dtjcview wrote: The new one on Monmouth @ 8th seems strange, coming immediately after the stop at 7th.
8th and Monmouth  photo 8M.jpg
Thanks for sharing. I guess there are a lot of factors making that intersection dangerous, and a stop sign there makes sense. My concern was more about why there wasn't another stop sign calming the speeding nearer the Atrium. What has been happening on Monmouth is that there has only been one stop sign between Newark and 13th and people floor it after 7th. They'll now floor it after 8th. Ever watch the senior citizens and folks in wheelchairs try to cross Monmouth near the Atrium? If there is traffic, they can't.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 5:23
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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The problem is solely bad, dangerous drivers. I have seen people run Stop signs right smack in front of cops. People are just dumb and dangerous and instead of painting every inch of crosswalks and posting flashing lights and signs it would make more sense to put up more cameras. That way blame can be put squarely on the terrible, aggressive drivers when there is an accident. I now see that drivers coming north on Jersey Ave are taking advantage of the new westbound Stop sign at 8th Street and jumping their sign as the other traffic waits. It's aggressive, entitled drivers that make things dangerous, not signs!

Posted on: 2013/11/24 4:17
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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dtjcview wrote: The new one on Monmouth @ 8th seems strange, coming immediately after the stop at 7th.
8th and Monmouth  photo 8M.jpg

Posted on: 2013/11/24 3:52
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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YES!! That corner needs not just a stop sign, but some flashing lights, a clearly delineated crosswalk, and one of those little signs you put in the middle of the road that states it's a pedestrian crossing. VERY dangerous corner. Hope they get to it!!

Posted on: 2013/11/24 2:53
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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What's kind of interesting is that not only are some people still flying right through the stop signs, but when someone actually does stop, there's often someone right behind them honking.

Obviously the speed humps, painted lines, and (hopefully) painted "STOP" on the road will help people learn about the new traffic patterns.

PS - Thank you Candice so much for getting this done.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 2:03
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Stop signs aside, i'm just happy Washington between Morgan and Columbus was re-paved finally! I've been complaining about that section for 3.5 years I've been living here.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 1:26
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Positively thrilled at four way at Jersey and York.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 1:15
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Me too kudo for getting these signs. I concur about the need for one on Monmouth at Pavonia, Monmouth is a speeding allay there and at 10th. Thanks Candice.

Posted on: 2013/11/24 0:56
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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tern wrote:
Massive kudos for getting this done Candice Osborne & Steve Fulop; I don't want all the gripes about locations and sign positioning to detract from the fact that after all these years of inaction and intransigence on the part of the city under previous adminstrations, you folks have got it done within a few months of coming to office, huge thanks for that!


yes! yes! yes!

while a lot of the commenters make valid points, just the fact that this is finally happening - and with such attention paid to community input - is astounding. I didn't think this kind of progress was possible in Jersey City.

Posted on: 2013/11/23 21:44
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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There is not one on Manila at 8th street, surely the most desperately needed spot in the Hamilton Park area!

Please, please, please get one put there.

Robin.

ps. Massive kudos for getting this done Candice Osborne & Steve Fulop; I don't want all the gripes about locations and sign positioning to detract from the fact that after all these years of inaction and intransigence on the part of the city under previous adminstrations, you folks have got it done within a few months of coming to office, huge thanks for that!

Posted on: 2013/11/23 21:34
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Seriously people, I just drove down Erie and the Stop sign by Torico's was obvious because it said STOP. The new one on 8th Street and Jersey is so obvious that it's ridiculous. The entire intersection is aglow with yellow paint. Stop blaming anyone but the bad, inattentive drivers around here. I guess a lot of the posts here explain the numerous accidents around DTJC. Are some of you people that blind?

Posted on: 2013/11/23 21:33
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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Who are these idiot city workers with zero judgment on the logical place to put the stop sign? Meaning - do your job and place it at the intersection but then DO YOUR JOB by realizing where it needs to be in order to be seen. (Like the poster below saying it wasn't properly visible to start with). It reminds me of the idiot city workers who didn't give a rats ass about paining white lines on the streets and painted the white line over a pile of leaves because they were too lazy to move the leaves. Judgement goes far.

Posted on: 2013/11/23 21:28
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Re: LOTS of new Stop Signs Downtown
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We should get some temporary signs up asap warning of the new stop signs until the road markings can be fixed. The big text message ones would be best, but some of the "New Traffic Pattern Ahead" ones would help too.

Posted on: 2013/11/23 21:17
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