hero69 wrote:
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Sutherland wrote:
This beautiful Fair Haven home, which just sold for $1.7 mm has real estate taxes of $13,000.00. I'm confident their public schools are better than JC, they have less crime than JC, probably not as many water main breaks, which seems to be a regular occurrence and fewer pot holes.

http://realestate.nj.com/realestate-n ... ng.html#incart_river_home

Of course I anticipate someone telling me to move to Fair Haven if I wanted lower real estate taxes. However, I do think it's a worthwhile metric.

yes, i just love fair haven's proximity to manhattan and their quick access to manhattan!

Sutherland wrote:
This beautiful Fair Haven home, which just sold for $1.7 mm has real estate taxes of $13,000.00. I'm confident their public schools are better than JC, they have less crime than JC, probably not as many water main breaks, which seems to be a regular occurrence and fewer pot holes.

http://realestate.nj.com/realestate-n ... ng.html#incart_river_home

Of course I anticipate someone telling me to move to Fair Haven if I wanted lower real estate taxes. However, I do think it's a worthwhile metric.

Sutherland wrote:
This beautiful Fair Haven home, which just sold for $1.7 mm has real estate taxes of $13,000.00. I'm confident their public schools are better than JC, they have less crime than JC, probably not as many water main breaks, which seems to be a regular occurrence and fewer pot holes.

http://realestate.nj.com/realestate-n ... ng.html#incart_river_home

Of course I anticipate someone telling me to move to Fair Haven if I wanted lower real estate taxes. However, I do think it's a worthwhile metric.

hero69 wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
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mfadam wrote:
so check this out - 133 Mercer St being listed for $3.595mm. They list in their financials page that they pay about 21K in property tax. If they even get 2.5mm they are still gonna see a big uptick in property taxes.

This building is cut up into 4 floor through rentals. It is well maintained and still has a lot of detail.

Maybe I'm underestimating the feeding frenzy in DTJC but I'm not sure 3.595mm is realistic with a $131K rent roll. Perhaps others who know mutli family finance can chime in on what a typical multiple is to annual roll.

Here's the webpage for the building with details...
http://www.133mercer.com/financials.html

$3.595 million for a property with annual revenue of $131,000?? Plus, I'm pretty sure their yearly financial pro forma is wrong for not including maintenance, reserves and a vacancy allowance. Insurance also seems low for a four-family investment.

are rents that highn in dtjc? $2,750 per month per apt seems like a lot to me, but maybe i'm behind the times

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
so check this out - 133 Mercer St being listed for $3.595mm. They list in their financials page that they pay about 21K in property tax. If they even get 2.5mm they are still gonna see a big uptick in property taxes.

This building is cut up into 4 floor through rentals. It is well maintained and still has a lot of detail.

Maybe I'm underestimating the feeding frenzy in DTJC but I'm not sure 3.595mm is realistic with a $131K rent roll. Perhaps others who know mutli family finance can chime in on what a typical multiple is to annual roll.

Here's the webpage for the building with details...
http://www.133mercer.com/financials.html

$3.595 million for a property with annual revenue of $131,000?? Plus, I'm pretty sure their yearly financial pro forma is wrong for not including maintenance, reserves and a vacancy allowance. Insurance also seems low for a four-family investment.

MDM wrote:
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brewster wrote:
That property we're discussing shows how ridiculous a disparity there is between comps and cap rates. Ignoramuses like Yvonne have complained about this before, that houses are valued more than commercial, and now it's going to be on steroids.

I suspect there will be many investment properties that are technically residential (4 units or less) that might become cash flow negative after the reval. I wonder if we will have a flood of buildings for sale hitting the market say about six months after the reval take effect?

brewster wrote:
That property we're discussing shows how ridiculous a disparity there is between comps and cap rates. Ignoramuses like Yvonne have complained about this before, that houses are valued more than commercial, and now it's going to be on steroids.

brewster wrote:

MDM wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
At 4U they weight it more as a commercial by rents than a residential by comps, and even the most corrupt appraiser can't make those numbers work. The question is why sell it as a 4U subject to tougher rent based appraisals rather than condos where comps are all?

1 to 4 units is generally considered 'residential' and rents don't count. Pre housing bubble days, I had an issue getting mortgages in part because the comp sales around me were so low. The comparison were useless because they were non-renovated buildings. My rent receivable were 100% to 150% higher, but since I was 'residential' rental income didn't count towards the appraised value.

mfadam wrote:
so check this out - 133 Mercer St being listed for $3.595mm. They list in their financials page that they pay about 21K in property tax. If they even get 2.5mm they are still gonna see a big uptick in property taxes.

This building is cut up into 4 floor through rentals. It is well maintained and still has a lot of detail.

Maybe I'm underestimating the feeding frenzy in DTJC but I'm not sure 3.595mm is realistic with a $131K rent roll. Perhaps others who know mutli family finance can chime in on what a typical multiple is to annual roll.

Here's the webpage for the building with details...
http://www.133mercer.com/financials.html

mfadam wrote:
so check this out - 133 Mercer St being listed for $3.595mm. They list in their financials page that they pay about 21K in property tax. If they even get 2.5mm they are still gonna see a big uptick in property taxes.

This building is cut up into 4 floor through rentals. It is well maintained and still has a lot of detail.

Maybe I'm underestimating the feeding frenzy in DTJC but I'm not sure 3.595mm is realistic with a $131K rent roll. Perhaps others who know mutli family finance can chime in on what a typical multiple is to annual roll.

Here's the webpage for the building with details...
http://www.133mercer.com/financials.html

brewster wrote:
At 4U they weight it more as a commercial by rents than a residential by comps, and even the most corrupt appraiser can't make those numbers work. The question is why sell it as a 4U subject to tougher rent based appraisals rather than condos where comps are all?

mfadam wrote:
Maybe I'm underestimating the feeding frenzy in DTJC but I'm not sure 3.595mm is realistic with a $131K rent roll. Perhaps others who know mutli family finance can chime in on what a typical multiple is to annual roll.

heights wrote:
So you are stating that taxes are low due to the market value of your area based on your income ?

brewster wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
[quote]
brewster, my information comes from the county administrator, we pay his salary to come up with his facts that I quote. It is not my facts at all.

You see, this is the evasion and doubling down that makes you look like an idiot. I'm certain the county administrator did not tell you that JC's taxes are "high". "High" is a relative term, you do know what that means Ms Former Teacher? I believe it's covered on Sesame Street. The answer you are unwilling to address is what is our taxes are "high" relative to. When I say they're not high for our area, you burble, say nonsense, repeat yourself at the first opportunity, and then wonder why people think you're disingenuous and/or a fool.

stateaidguy wrote:


It's hard to compute the net change in taxes due to PILOTing, but assuming that these buildings would be built anyway even if they had to pay normal taxes, my guess is that on the net, JC's PILOTed properties increase taxes for everyone else in Jersey City and certainly increase taxes for people living in other towns in Hudson County.

Yvonne wrote:
[quote]
brewster, my information comes from the county administrator, we pay his salary to come up with his facts that I quote. It is not my facts at all.

Yvonne wrote:
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brewster wrote:
She also says again and again that "taxes are high" without justifying it even when called out on it repeatedly. Not to mention always injecting the abatement issue into the reval discussion, when they actually have absolutely nothing to do with each other. We'd need a reval even if the Yvonne the Witch of the West (bank) waved her wand and made the abatements disappear, since the reval is about fairness between the taxpayers.

It truly appears she lacks the wits to understand these issues, and when called out always doubles down like her man tRump.

brewster, my information comes from the county administrator, we pay his salary to come up with his facts that I quote. It is not my facts at all.

brewster wrote:
She also says again and again that "taxes are high" without justifying it even when called out on it repeatedly. Not to mention always injecting the abatement issue into the reval discussion, when they actually have absolutely nothing to do with each other. We'd need a reval even if the Yvonne the Witch of the West (bank) waved her wand and made the abatements disappear, since the reval is about fairness between the taxpayers.

It truly appears she lacks the wits to understand these issues, and when called out always doubles down like her man tRump.

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
"not taxed" != "abatement"

"Abatement is a reduction in the level of taxation faced by an individual or company. Examples of an abatement include a tax decrease, a reduction in penalties or a rebate. If an individual or business overpays its taxes or receives a tax bill that is too high, it can request an abatement from the tax authorities."
Abatement Definition | Investopedia
www.investopedia.com/terms/a/abatement.asp

Ralph, you are ignoring the fact that the county does not include tax abated property, or pilots in the formula when the county strikes the budget. If they did then the ratable base would be high and our tax bill would be much lower. I don't make this up, I do call the people who work on our budget in the county.