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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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dtjcview wrote:
They have been constantly ripping up the roads west to east over the past couple of years installing huge sewer lines. Last I checked - they were ripping up 6th street (again?). PSE&G have also been through most of downtown "hardening" their gas lines in the past few months.

Time will tell if it's enough - but can't claim they've done nothing since Sandy.


They're not doing my street. Someone at the MUA claimed it was fine in their survey, even though when the MUA ran a cam down it 18 years ago they reported a 18" diameter brick sewer filled with longitudinal and offset cracks.


Looks like they are digging up Grand St. between Grove and Marin this week. Does anyone know if this is sewer related? God knows, that block is one of the worst for flooding.

Posted on: Yesterday 15:41
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dtjcview wrote:
They have been constantly ripping up the roads west to east over the past couple of years installing huge sewer lines. Last I checked - they were ripping up 6th street (again?). PSE&G have also been through most of downtown "hardening" their gas lines in the past few months.

Time will tell if it's enough - but can't claim they've done nothing since Sandy.


They're not doing my street. Someone at the MUA claimed it was fine in their survey, even though when the MUA ran a cam down it 18 years ago they reported a 18" diameter brick sewer filled with longitudinal and offset cracks.

Posted on: Yesterday 15:35
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Does City Hall have a plan to fix the sewer issues? If they're going to continue to give tax breaks for thousands of new apartments you'd think that would be part of the equation . . .


http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... anned_on_jersey_city.html
http://hudsonreporter.com/view/full_s ... ements?instance=top_story

They have been constantly ripping up the roads west to east over the past couple of years installing huge sewer lines. Last I checked - they were ripping up 6th street (again?). PSE&G have also been through most of downtown "hardening" their gas lines in the past few months.

Time will tell if it's enough - but can't claim they've done nothing since Sandy.

Posted on: Yesterday 13:56
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Does City Hall have a plan to fix the sewer issues? If they're going to continue to give tax breaks for thousands of new apartments you'd think that would be part of the equation . . .


I don't think anyone involved in City Hall is planning on sticking around long enough to care.

This place is a stepping stone to higher ambitions, nothing more.


Unfortunately the other way doesn't work either, Healy was a Company Man, only there to the right wheels got greased for the HCDO and their developer patrons.

Posted on: 8/28 22:18
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Does City Hall have a plan to fix the sewer issues? If they're going to continue to give tax breaks for thousands of new apartments you'd think that would be part of the equation . . .


I don't think anyone involved in City Hall is planning on sticking around long enough to care.

This place is a stepping stone to higher ambitions, nothing more.

Posted on: 8/28 21:29
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Monroe wrote:
Does City Hall have a plan to fix the sewer issues? If they're going to continue to give tax breaks for thousands of new apartments you'd think that would be part of the equation . . .


100% agree with this! There is no reason why the city council shouldn't or couldn't demand that all new developments pay into a general fund earmarked for sewer repairs and improvements. I'm not well versed in NJ laws in this regard, but I know that in NY (and, other states) agreements are often struck in which a developer agrees to pay huge sums to add or modify highway exits or other roads (including repaving of entire areas!) as part of an official quid pro quo to gain approval of variances or building approvals. If every recent or current development had been required to contribute 100K into a general fund for sewer repairs or improvements, such a fund would already have over 3 million dollars. Admittedly, that wouldn't be enough money to fix the problem, but it would be a start. It's time to get creative in dealing with our problems.

Posted on: 8/28 18:02
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Does City Hall have a plan to fix the sewer issues? If they're going to continue to give tax breaks for thousands of new apartments you'd think that would be part of the equation . . .

Posted on: 8/28 15:15
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hero69 wrote:
the good news is that property prices are rising throughout jersey city which should help ameliorate increased tax burden on dt homeowners


Admittedly, this belongs in another thread, but the problem is we have a system that makes money vanish. Whether it's taxes for schools or sewers, it seems no matter how much goes in, dysfunction comes out.

Perhaps when DT was a slum it was ok to say sewers and streets that flood from normal multi-annual events are just the way it is, but can you tell that to someone who just bought a $2m brownstone? They'll try, but people like that are either lawyers or know some well. Hopefully the days of using all of DT's sewer system and streets as a holding tank are numbered.

Posted on: 8/28 14:46
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the good news is that property prices are rising throughout jersey city which should help ameliorate increased tax burden on dt homeowners

Posted on: 8/28 14:16
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The taxes commanded by some properties will not be commensurate with the infrastructure and services for which one is paying.


Now THERE'S a point! Will I be paying >25k to have my basement flooded by the sewer every time it rains heavy?


Exactly! For DTJC homeowners, with so many properties prone to sewer backups whenever it rains heavily, or for long stretches of time, combined with so-so schools, atrocious roads everywhere, and a host of other nuisances, the idea of paying 25K+ in property taxes seems almost absurd.

Posted on: 8/28 12:46
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The taxes commanded by some properties will not be commensurate with the infrastructure and services for which one is paying.


Now THERE'S a point! Will I be paying >25k to have my basement flooded by the sewer every time it rains heavy?

Posted on: 8/27 21:44
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This thread has been dormant for two months now. Any word on the current status of the reval process?

Just took a look in Zillow, and the number of properties valued at 750K in 07302 now stands at 76. From looking at the tax info for those listings, almost every single one is paying effective rates of well under 1% and seemingly EVERY SINGLE ONE unabashedly advertises "LOW TAXES". Looks to me like some buyers are trying to get out early, and using shady/dishonest claims they know will not be true for much longer.

I asked this before, but I'm not sure if anyone ever answered: do homeowners have any recourse in such a situation in which they bought a property under pretenses that the previous owner knew would change drastically in the near future? In other words, can a buyer sue (or, have any other recourse) against a seller (or, either agent) that fails to disclose that property taxes were on the verge of doubling or tripling soon after the sale?


You're going to have to wait a couple years minimum before you can buy property here. Just isn't worth it until the reval is conducted and massive tax increases are fully priced in.


Believe me, I have no interest AT ALL to purchase anything in DTJC for at least another two years, and even then it is unlikely I will jump into that segment of the local market. The taxes commanded by some properties will not be commensurate with the infrastructure and services for which one is paying.

Posted on: 8/27 15:41
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I asked the same question some times ago and the answer was no. The seller is under no obligations to communicate a process which has not started and is not impacting his/her taxes RIGHT NOW, and the statement that the taxes are low is true AT PRESENT. Whether the buyer agent is under obligation to communicate to the buyer ongoing processes that may affect FUTURE value is still not too clear however imho. Clearly buyer agents are ethically obligated to communicate PRESENT adversarial facts that they know about a property. The question is whether they are obligated to communicate a ONGOING process once it is started and that will impact FUTURE value. If yes to the latter, then current sellers have a very short time window to hide right now before the actual process starts. After that, any person could send a blank email to all realtors reminding them of their obligations, an email that could be used in the court of law.

Again this is all about the law evaluate things, present vs future.


This is pretty much my understanding, as well. It's rather unfortunate that (seemingly) there are no legal requirements to fully disclose what is undoubtedly a very important factor for homeowners. I think most people would agree that, ethically, a full disclosure of what is something scheduled to happen is the right thing to do.

Posted on: 8/27 15:34
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You're going to have to wait a couple years minimum before you can buy property here. Just isn't worth it until the reval is conducted and massive tax increases are fully priced in.


As long as the here you speak of is DT. It's a great time to buy underpriced overtaxed properties in other districts. Their taxes will fall and values rise. The notion that DT will drag down prices citywide is nonsense. After the reval, at first prices will be very slow to drop because of denial. So buyers will see high prices AND high taxes, vs lower prices and low taxes elsewhere. So in those areas prices will creep up in response to demand as the prices of the previously undertaxed creep down.

Posted on: 8/27 14:38
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bodhipooh wrote:
This thread has been dormant for two months now. Any word on the current status of the reval process?

Just took a look in Zillow, and the number of properties valued at 750K in 07302 now stands at 76. From looking at the tax info for those listings, almost every single one is paying effective rates of well under 1% and seemingly EVERY SINGLE ONE unabashedly advertises "LOW TAXES". Looks to me like some buyers are trying to get out early, and using shady/dishonest claims they know will not be true for much longer.

I asked this before, but I'm not sure if anyone ever answered: do homeowners have any recourse in such a situation in which they bought a property under pretenses that the previous owner knew would change drastically in the near future? In other words, can a buyer sue (or, have any other recourse) against a seller (or, either agent) that fails to disclose that property taxes were on the verge of doubling or tripling soon after the sale?


You're going to have to wait a couple years minimum before you can buy property here. Just isn't worth it until the reval is conducted and massive tax increases are fully priced in.

Posted on: 8/27 14:14
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I asked the same question some times ago and the answer was no. The seller is under no obligations to communicate a process which has not started and is not impacting his/her taxes RIGHT NOW, and the statement that the taxes are low is true AT PRESENT. Whether the buyer agent is under obligation to communicate to the buyer ongoing processes that may affect FUTURE value is still not too clear however imho. Clearly buyer agents are ethically obligated to communicate PRESENT adversarial facts that they know about a property. The question is whether they are obligated to communicate a ONGOING process once it is started and that will impact FUTURE value. If yes to the latter, then current sellers have a very short time window to hide right now before the actual process starts. After that, any person could send a blank email to all realtors reminding them of their obligations, an email that could be used in the court of law.

Again this is all about the law evaluate things, present vs future.

Posted on: 8/27 12:20
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I asked this before, but I'm not sure if anyone ever answered: do homeowners have any recourse in such a situation in which they bought a property under pretenses that the previous owner knew would change drastically in the near future? In other words, can a buyer sue (or, have any other recourse) against a seller (or, either agent) that fails to disclose that property taxes were on the verge of doubling or tripling soon after the sale?


No, but real estate agents might some sort of ethics clause regarding advising their clients regarding this issue.




Posted on: 8/27 10:10
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This thread has been dormant for two months now. Any word on the current status of the reval process?

Just took a look in Zillow, and the number of properties valued at 750K in 07302 now stands at 76. From looking at the tax info for those listings, almost every single one is paying effective rates of well under 1% and seemingly EVERY SINGLE ONE unabashedly advertises "LOW TAXES". Looks to me like some buyers are trying to get out early, and using shady/dishonest claims they know will not be true for much longer.

I asked this before, but I'm not sure if anyone ever answered: do homeowners have any recourse in such a situation in which they bought a property under pretenses that the previous owner knew would change drastically in the near future? In other words, can a buyer sue (or, have any other recourse) against a seller (or, either agent) that fails to disclose that property taxes were on the verge of doubling or tripling soon after the sale?

Posted on: 8/27 8:31
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When I bought my property it had the standard 5 year abatement - 25% I think. As far as I can tell, when the property was renovated before I purchased it - the city did a reassessment - reset the assessed value based on that assessment (not the sale price), then set the "abatement" as 25% of that assessment - shown in the "exemptions" column of my property card. The abatement was that fixed % of assessed value for the 5 years. After 5 years, the full assessed value was used to calc my tax bill.

After the reval happens - I'd expect similarly abated properties to carry through that % abatement until the end of their abatement term.

Posted on: 8/16 2:24
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heights wrote:
Hey numbers don't lie just look at the history of the J.C. property tax rate for the last 30 years. Once the reval takes place the tax rate will drop from it's current $74 per thousand to around $20 but the assessed market value will go up so...do the math. That's why all of a sudden abatements are all the rage. Imagine having a assessed value at from 28 years ago for the next 30 or 40 years.


Heights, why don't you go back and read over this entire thread, so you have a slight idea what you're talking about. It's posts like this that confuse the crap out of people and make them give up about understanding the tax system.

I'll lay it all out for those just joining this program already in progress.

Property tax= rate x multiplier x assessed value

The multiplier is set by the city as the compensation for inflation and appreciation. For 2015 it was 3.38. So the official tax rate of 7.482% can be divided by the multiplier to yield the "effective" rate of 2.216%, the rate on what the city thinks is the market value. So a $1m house should have paid $22,160 last year. The reval is to correct the difference between what the city thinks it's worth and what it actually is.

Abatements have absolutely nothing to do with assessments. The point of abatements is to be outside this system. But here's a question for the panel: when a property comes off abatement is it's assessment based on an appraisal at that time or using some number from the time of construction?


Thank you, Brewster. I know you and I have similar understanding and opinion on the matter of taxes, and I have always found your posts to be respectful and on point.

As to your question, the abatement is based on the sale value, and I always assumed that the value would be adjusted to market conditions on an ongoing basis, but I now have my doubts about that assumption, as the city seems unable (or, unwilling) to do a basic calculation of property valuation to achieve the benefits of a rolling valuation system. I suppose that if the city stuck to the legal requirement of having a reval performed every 10 years, this issue would largely go away.

It would be interesting to learn how the city plans to incorporate properties currently abated into the tax rolls once they come off their abatements. Hopefully, whatever plan of action is drawn and adopted for this court-mandated reval will incorporate such things as taking into consideration exactly that.

Posted on: 8/15 21:57
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heights wrote:
Hey numbers don't lie just look at the history of the J.C. property tax rate for the last 30 years. Once the reval takes place the tax rate will drop from it's current $74 per thousand to around $20 but the assessed market value will go up so...do the math. That's why all of a sudden abatements are all the rage. Imagine having a assessed value at from 28 years ago for the next 30 or 40 years.


Heights, why don't you go back and read over this entire thread, so you have a slight idea what you're talking about. It's posts like this that confuse the crap out of people and make them give up about understanding the tax system.

I'll lay it all out for those just joining this program already in progress.

Property tax= rate x multiplier x assessed value

The multiplier is set by the city as the compensation for inflation and appreciation. For 2015 it was 3.38. So the official tax rate of 7.482% can be divided by the multiplier to yield the "effective" rate of 2.216%, the rate on what the city thinks is the market value. So a $1m house should have paid $22,160 last year. The reval is to correct the difference between what the city thinks it's worth and what it actually is.

Abatements have absolutely nothing to do with assessments. The point of abatements is to be outside this system. But here's a question for the panel: when a property comes off abatement is it's assessment based on an appraisal at that time or using some number from the time of construction?

Posted on: 8/15 20:30
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brewster wrote:
I just heard through the grapevine that some homebuyers are getting spot reassessments at sale value, just for ownership transfer, not for reno or condo-ing etc. Can anyone confirm this? They said it's just been in the last 2 years.


"Spot reassessments" - what "grapevine?"

Call the tax assessor's office and explain to them what you've heard. They're friendly and at times surprisingly forthcoming with information.

I think that is likely BS but anything is possible.


I did hear of this anecdotally on the Harsimus Cove NextDoor page. I believe someone purchased a single or two family on 5th street for around $750k. Saw their taxes jump from $5800 to $15500.


I recall the thread - it was a recent purchase, combined with renovation work the prior owners did (required permits to be pulled) that triggered it. Most people probably have nothing to worry about.


Maybe nothing to worry about for the time being, but this is an indication property taxes could easily triple once the reval occurs. Downtown property owners should be very worried.


What's even funnier (read, sadder) is that they felt it was unfair for them to have to pay their fair share in property taxes, and even went as far as to state that their new tax levy was below what it should if the property had been assessed at the actual rate, based on the actual sale $ value, and so they have decided not to appeal the new levy. Lots of new DTJC homeowners are in for a big surprise. But, people keep saying that is an overblown fear, and many others are blissfully in denial.

Hey numbers don't lie just look at the history of the J.C. property tax rate for the last 30 years. Once the reval takes place the tax rate will drop from it's current $74 per thousand to around $20 but the assessed market value will go up so...do the math. That's why all of a sudden abatements are all the rage. Imagine having a assessed value at from 28 years ago for the next 30 or 40 years.

Posted on: 8/15 18:26
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brewster wrote:
I just heard through the grapevine that some homebuyers are getting spot reassessments at sale value, just for ownership transfer, not for reno or condo-ing etc. Can anyone confirm this? They said it's just been in the last 2 years.


"Spot reassessments" - what "grapevine?"

Call the tax assessor's office and explain to them what you've heard. They're friendly and at times surprisingly forthcoming with information.

I think that is likely BS but anything is possible.


I did hear of this anecdotally on the Harsimus Cove NextDoor page. I believe someone purchased a single or two family on 5th street for around $750k. Saw their taxes jump from $5800 to $15500.


I recall the thread - it was a recent purchase, combined with renovation work the prior owners did (required permits to be pulled) that triggered it. Most people probably have nothing to worry about.


Maybe nothing to worry about for the time being, but this is an indication property taxes could easily triple once the reval occurs. Downtown property owners should be very worried.


What's even funnier (read, sadder) is that they felt it was unfair for them to have to pay their fair share in property taxes, and even went as far as to state that their new tax levy was below what it should if the property had been assessed at the actual rate, based on the actual sale $ value, and so they have decided not to appeal the new levy. Lots of new DTJC homeowners are in for a big surprise. But, people keep saying that is an overblown fear, and many others are blissfully in denial.

Posted on: 8/15 18:19
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Posted on: 8/15 17:28
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brewster wrote:
I just heard through the grapevine that some homebuyers are getting spot reassessments at sale value, just for ownership transfer, not for reno or condo-ing etc. Can anyone confirm this? They said it's just been in the last 2 years.


"Spot reassessments" - what "grapevine?"

Call the tax assessor's office and explain to them what you've heard. They're friendly and at times surprisingly forthcoming with information.

I think that is likely BS but anything is possible.


I did hear of this anecdotally on the Harsimus Cove NextDoor page. I believe someone purchased a single or two family on 5th street for around $750k. Saw their taxes jump from $5800 to $15500.


I recall the thread - it was a recent purchase, combined with renovation work the prior owners did (required permits to be pulled) that triggered it. Most people probably have nothing to worry about.


Maybe nothing to worry about for the time being, but this is an indication property taxes could easily triple once the reval occurs. Downtown property owners should be very worried.

Posted on: 8/15 17:06
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brewster wrote:
I just heard through the grapevine that some homebuyers are getting spot reassessments at sale value, just for ownership transfer, not for reno or condo-ing etc. Can anyone confirm this? They said it's just been in the last 2 years.


"Spot reassessments" - what "grapevine?"

Call the tax assessor's office and explain to them what you've heard. They're friendly and at times surprisingly forthcoming with information.

I think that is likely BS but anything is possible.


I did hear of this anecdotally on the Harsimus Cove NextDoor page. I believe someone purchased a single or two family on 5th street for around $750k. Saw their taxes jump from $5800 to $15500.


I recall the thread - it was a recent purchase, combined with renovation work the prior owners did (required permits to be pulled) that triggered it. Most people probably have nothing to worry about.

Posted on: 8/15 16:42
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brewster wrote:
I just heard through the grapevine that some homebuyers are getting spot reassessments at sale value, just for ownership transfer, not for reno or condo-ing etc. Can anyone confirm this? They said it's just been in the last 2 years.


"Spot reassessments" - what "grapevine?"

Call the tax assessor's office and explain to them what you've heard. They're friendly and at times surprisingly forthcoming with information.

I think that is likely BS but anything is possible.


I did hear of this anecdotally on the Harsimus Cove NextDoor page. I believe someone purchased a single or two family on 5th street for around $750k. Saw their taxes jump from $5800 to $15500.

Posted on: 8/15 16:16
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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brewster wrote:
I just heard through the grapevine that some homebuyers are getting spot reassessments at sale value, just for ownership transfer, not for reno or condo-ing etc. Can anyone confirm this? They said it's just been in the last 2 years.


"Spot reassessments" - what "grapevine?"

Call the tax assessor's office and explain to them what you've heard. They're friendly and at times surprisingly forthcoming with information.

I think that is likely BS but anything is possible.

Posted on: 8/15 15:57
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I just heard through the grapevine that some homebuyers are getting spot reassessments at sale value, just for ownership transfer, not for reno or condo-ing etc. Can anyone confirm this? They said it's just been in the last 2 years.

Posted on: 8/15 15:41
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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JCGuys wrote:
What are the most under assessed properties in the city?

500 Summit in Journal Square recently sold for $26.5 million. The assessed value is only $151,000.

http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... 609605____00004_________M

https://commercialobserver.com/2016/06 ... -jersey-city-parking-lot/

What other crazy examples are out there? I'm now convinced the threats of higher residential taxes is a red herring as its land speculators that will be hit hardest. Guess we'll know for sure by November of next year. We should compile all the fear mongers, especially the one guy who said the reval will lead to a budget shortfall and/or cut services. Call them out when they're proven to be wrong.

Probably Fulop sockpuppets anyway.



I'd be curious about the biggest assessment/market value disparities too. Let everyone know what you find.


But I was thinking of the implications of the reval for overall municipal revenue.

Ok, 99% of the time, a reval is tax neutral, but I think Jersey City might be in the 1% when it is revenue negative and does require an increase in the municipal tax levy.

This is because in PILOT agreements there is a cap on what the PILOT payment and land taxes are. This means that if the land taxes increase, the PILOT payment decreases on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Since the land taxes are shared with the JC BOE and Hudson County, there will be less money for the JC municipality.

Let's say there's a PILOTed property that now pays $100,000 in land taxes and a $1 million PILOT payment.

Let's say that the property's land is underassessed and post-reval the land taxes go up by $300,000 to $400,000. Well, this means that the PILOT payment is correspondingly reduced by $300,000 and the new PILOT payment is only $700,000.

Pre-reval, JC got half of the land taxes ($50k) and 95% of the PILOT ($950,000), so $1 million total. *

Post-reval JC will get half of the land taxes (now $200,000) and 95% of the $700,000 PILOT, so $665,000. Now JC is only getting $865,000 total.

Of course a lot of the "loss" goes to the JCBOE and Jersey Cityans will have their school taxes offset, but a portion does go to Hudson County and that offset money will be spread very broadly.


* Older PILOT deals give 100% of the PILOT payment to the municipality.

Posted on: 6/21 10:57
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