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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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What are the most under assessed properties in the city?

500 Summit in Journal Square recently sold for $26.5 million. The assessed value is only $151,000.

http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... 609605____00004_________M

https://commercialobserver.com/2016/06 ... -jersey-city-parking-lot/

What other crazy examples are out there? I'm now convinced the threats of higher residential taxes is a red herring as its land speculators that will be hit hardest. Guess we'll know for sure by November of next year. We should compile all the fear mongers, especially the one guy who said the reval will lead to a budget shortfall and/or cut services. Call them out when they're proven to be wrong.

Probably Fulop sockpuppets anyway.



I'd be curious about the biggest assessment/market value disparities too. Let everyone know what you find.


But I was thinking of the implications of the reval for overall municipal revenue.

Ok, 99% of the time, a reval is tax neutral, but I think Jersey City might be in the 1% when it is revenue negative and does require an increase in the municipal tax levy.

This is because in PILOT agreements there is a cap on what the PILOT payment and land taxes are. This means that if the land taxes increase, the PILOT payment decreases on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Since the land taxes are shared with the JC BOE and Hudson County, there will be less money for the JC municipality.

Let's say there's a PILOTed property that now pays $100,000 in land taxes and a $1 million PILOT payment.

Let's say that the property's land is underassessed and post-reval the land taxes go up by $300,000 to $400,000. Well, this means that the PILOT payment is correspondingly reduced by $300,000 and the new PILOT payment is only $700,000.

Pre-reval, JC got half of the land taxes ($50k) and 95% of the PILOT ($950,000), so $1 million total. *

Post-reval JC will get half of the land taxes (now $200,000) and 95% of the $700,000 PILOT, so $665,000. Now JC is only getting $865,000 total.

Of course a lot of the "loss" goes to the JCBOE and Jersey Cityans will have their school taxes offset, but a portion does go to Hudson County and that offset money will be spread very broadly.


* Older PILOT deals give 100% of the PILOT payment to the municipality.

Posted on: 6/21 10:57
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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What are the most under assessed properties in the city?

500 Summit in Journal Square recently sold for $26.5 million. The assessed value is only $151,000.

http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... 609605____00004_________M

https://commercialobserver.com/2016/06 ... -jersey-city-parking-lot/

What other crazy examples are out there? I'm now convinced the threats of higher residential taxes is a red herring as its land speculators that will be hit hardest. Guess we'll know for sure by November of next year. We should compile all the fear mongers, especially the one guy who said the reval will lead to a budget shortfall and/or cut services. Call them out when they're proven to be wrong.

Probably Fulop sockpuppets anyway.


Posted on: 6/21 1:50
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Posted on: 6/20 12:39
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The Cucci council who basically won with the mayor did have a backbone. One of its members was the late Frances O. Thompson. They and others did not give Cucci want he wanted all the time. There was many debates.

Posted on: 6/17 17:31
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Yvonne wrote:
When will the council grow a backbone and say, "No."


When its not stacked in favor of the sitting Mayor. This goes for all Mayors and Councils.

Posted on: 6/17 16:20
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When will the council grow a backbone and say, "No."

Posted on: 6/17 16:14
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Surprised Boggiano voted for this. Does he honestly think the city is in the right?

More and more impressed with Yun by the day.


It's blatant political posturing for his mayor run but I did think the comment was amusing.

Posted on: 6/17 14:18
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Surprised Boggiano voted for this. Does he honestly think the city is in the right?

More and more impressed with Yun by the day.

Posted on: 6/17 13:35
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this fiasco should be done, but its not -

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... c.html#incart_river_index

Another $125K OK'd for firm hired to defend Jersey City in reval contract case

The City Council this week voted to give the outside law firm handling the reval breach-of-contract case another $125,000 after a closed-door meeting with one of the firm's attorneys.

The additional funds give Bernardsville law firm Schain, Schaffer & Rafanello a total of $450,000 so far for its representation of the city in the case, brought by Realty Appraisal Co. after Democratic Mayor Steve Fulop in 2013 stopped the citywide property revaluation the company was hired in 2011 to conduct. The city lost the case in April when Hudson County Superior Court Judge Francis B. Schultz ruled the city acted in bad faith when Fulop halted the reval and stopped all payments to Realty Appraisal.

The council on Wednesday voted 8-1 to approve the $125,000 contract extension, with only Ward D Councilman Michael Yun voting against. The extra funds are intended to pay for the law firm, where Somerset County Democratic Chair Peg Schaffer is a managing partner, to draft the city's appeal of Schultz's ruling.

Yun declined to say what transpired during the closed-door meeting between council members and an attorney from the firm, but he said he was unconvinced by the attorney's belief that the city will get a different result from the appellate court.

"He was able to convince us in five minutes that we should go to a higher court but over the seven-day trial period he was not able to convince the judge that we're in the right," Yun told The Jersey Journal.

Revaluation bill for Jersey City taxpayers could top $8.5M

Revaluation bill for Jersey City taxpayers could top $8.5M

The total includes costs from the aborted 2011 reval and the one ordered by New Jersey on Monday.

Ward C Councilman Rich Boggiano, generally a Fulop critic, supported the contract extension because he believes the city's contention that it could win back the roughly $2 million Realty Appraisal was paid before the reval was halted two years ago.

Yun said he believes the city will lose the appeal, the purpose of which, he said, is to "save the mayor's face. Nothing more than that." A request for comment from city spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill was not returned.

Schultz ordered the city to pay Realty Appraisal $984,511, the amount the firm says it is owed for work completed but not paid for when Fulop stopped the reval. The city is also on the hook for the company's legal fees and interest at the rate of $216.37 daily.

The state in April ordered the city to conduct a reval, a process dreaded by politicians that seeks to put every property's assessed value on par with its true value. Because Jersey City hasn't had a reval since 1988, its ratio of assessed to true value is just 27.6 percent.

The city is soliciting bids for the process, which is supposed to be completed by November 2017.

Posted on: 6/17 11:18
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brewster wrote:
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But will the milennials want to buy in high cost areas or gtavitate towards up and coming affordable ones ?

JC is still affordable and convenient, relative to many other parts of the metro area.

The Millennials are a huge generation; there are more Millennials alive today than there are Boomers (and 3x as many of them as Gen X). They prefer to live near cities, and as long as JC is less expensive than Manhattan, chances are a few of 'em are going to move here. Especially as their incomes improve.

By the way, I wonder who is moving into JC these days? Retirees? ;)

Posted on: 6/13 20:36
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But will the milennials want to buy in high cost areas or gtavitate towards up and coming affordable ones ?


They will buy at whatever level they can afford, they are the same as everyone when buying RE.


Their standards of affordability are warped tho.

Posted on: 6/11 22:21
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But will the milennials want to buy in high cost areas or gtavitate towards up and coming affordable ones ?


They will buy at whatever level they can afford, they are the same as everyone when buying RE.

Posted on: 6/11 12:58
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It's also a matter of time before the Snake People (Millennials, for those of you not in the know) start buying homes.


Really? All the millennials I know are lucky to pay their student loans & rent, if they're not living in their parents basement. I've had several tenants with over $100k in loans.

The oldest Millennials are 34, and they won't be stuck in those basements forever. Even if they are just renting, that's still going to put pressure on all housing costs.


But will the milennials want to buy in high cost areas or gtavitate towards up and coming affordable ones ?

Posted on: 6/11 9:44
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Frinjc wrote:
Thanks for your insight. You may arguably be right (after all, hasn't Toronto defied correction prognosis for a while?). The definition of a bubble vs correction is arguable though. That being said, I can't forget the recent brochure I got from a realtor recently showing a 13% appreciation in price but also 13% longer time to sale for properties on the market (36 days). Higher ends properties can linger quite a bit on the market isn't it. How do you think it will play out in the next couple of years once you include the new assessments?


Well, I would think that some properties are lingering longer as buyers price them way too high (hoping for some gullible nincompoop that has bought into the "JC is the new Brooklyn!" mantra) and they then stubbornly drag their feet on adjusting prices until convinced by reality, or their realtor.

Posted on: 6/10 11:31
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It's also a matter of time before the Snake People (Millennials, for those of you not in the know) start buying homes.


Really? All the millennials I know are lucky to pay their student loans & rent, if they're not living in their parents basement. I've had several tenants with over $100k in loans.

The oldest Millennials are 34, and they won't be stuck in those basements forever. Even if they are just renting, that's still going to put pressure on all housing costs.

Posted on: 6/10 9:26
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What I've noticed is a lot of millennials opt for multi-family units, with parents moving in to help with their kids.

Posted on: 6/9 20:50
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Dolomiti wrote:
It's also a matter of time before the Snake People (Millennials, for those of you not in the know) start buying homes.


Really? All the millennials I know are lucky to pay their student loans & rent, if they're not living in their parents basement. I've had several tenants with over $100k in loans.

Posted on: 6/9 20:40
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Thanks for your insight. You may arguably be right (after all, hasn't Toronto defied correction prognosis for a while?). The definition of a bubble vs correction is arguable though. That being said, I can't forget the recent brochure I got from a realtor recently showing a 13% appreciation in price but also 13% longer time to sale for properties on the market (36 days). Higher ends properties can linger quite a bit on the market isn't it. How do you think it will play out in the next couple of years once you include the new assessments?

Suggested answers: a) don't worry and go smell the rose in Van Worst Park; b) Take your Citibike and run!; c) don't worry, the aussies will take care of it; d) don't worry, the chinese will take care of it; e) don't worry, Donald will take care of it; f) don't worry, Hillary will take care of it; g) don't worry, Steve will take care of it; h) don't worry Christie, you are not part of the discussion.

Posted on: 6/9 20:09
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It is pretty apparent looking at the for sale curve and property below that we are in a bubble...

No, it isn't.

People have claimed that JC is in another real estate bubble for over a year now (if not longer), based on no fundamentals or evidence whatsoever, regardless of any changes in RE values.

What's really going on is that inventory in desirable neighborhoods of JC is very limited. Most of JC is rentals (at least 70%); a lot of the new units in JC are also rentals; after the 2007 bubble burst, the market overcorrected by underbuilding new housing; people are still getting priced out of Manhattan and Brooklyn, and JC is just one of many places that gets the overflow.

It's also a matter of time before the Snake People (Millennials, for those of you not in the know) start buying homes.

Drastic increases in property values won't "pop the bubble," because there is no bubble. What it will do is ding RE values for a brief time, perhaps a year. During that year, the New York Times will continue to run RE fluff pieces about how Dorian and Ayumi who think Paulus Hook is "exotic" and "undiscovered," while Manhattan gets more expensive and more people want to live in NYC.

Posted on: 6/9 10:53
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Think of all the poor, black families that were forced to move when downtown JC no longer was affordable. It sucks. NJ needs better laws to protect homeownership.

(I haven't owned long, and I still expect to get socked. Anyway:)

You mean, better laws so that people don't have to pay their real estate taxes? Seems like an odd request.


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I would love to see something in Florida where property tax assessments are capped to 3 percent a year, or inflation, whatever is lower, if the property is your homestead. It discourages renting and promotes homeownership, and keeps taxes low for long term residents.

Yes, because that worked so well in California. ;)

I'm also not sure how well it works when a city only does a reval once every 30 years.

Socking landlords with a full force tax bill, while homeowners get a huge break, is deeply unfair. Everyone who lives here benefits from city services, and ought to pay their taxes. Homeowners should not get a tax break by foisting their tax bill onto renters.

In terms of reducing renters (in a city that is 70% or more rental): Landlords are not going to do a condo conversion and/or sell their buildings because they have a bigger tax bill. They're going to pass on the costs to their tenants. That's going to drive out low-income residents.

Or, let's say that there is a sudden wave of landlords selling their units. How many low-income families will be able to afford what they're selling?

At the risk of stating the obvious:

1) The real issue here is that JC hasn't done a reval in almost 30 years, and this leaves homeowners unprepared for a big change.

2) If you want to pay lower property taxes, then we should pass laws reducing property tax rates. Not play games with rate increases.

Posted on: 6/9 10:18
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One must assume they think it's a better investment than other options. Might be in the long run. But there's no way they're getting enough rent to justify the cost in strict business terms. Assuming a cash investment they'd have to be NETTING $8,300/mo just to make a 5% cap rate. Any idea what those houses actually rent for?


I don't know about all of them but the last I looked (about a month ago) they had several houses listed at rents north of that - two were above $12,000/month.

Posted on: 6/9 9:04
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I have talked with a friend on that and we agree. The more ruckus we can do to make people aware the better for the curve adjustment - I intend to stay. What is really puzzling is the aussies that keep buying $2M houses. Regardless of steady income why would one do this right now?


One must assume they think it's a better investment than other options. Might be in the long run. But there's no way they're getting enough rent to justify the cost in strict business terms. Assuming a cash investment they'd have to be NETTING $8,300/mo just to make a 5% cap rate. Any idea what those houses actually rent for?


Are they still actually buying $2M houses ? I can see them buying 4 fam units downtown which might come close to breaking even but seemed like they were more active a year or two ago.

Posted on: 6/8 21:06
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I have talked with a friend on that and we agree. The more ruckus we can do to make people aware the better for the curve adjustment - I intend to stay. What is really puzzling is the aussies that keep buying $2M houses. Regardless of steady income why would one do this right now?


One must assume they think it's a better investment than other options. Might be in the long run. But there's no way they're getting enough rent to justify the cost in strict business terms. Assuming a cash investment they'd have to be NETTING $8,300/mo just to make a 5% cap rate. Any idea what those houses actually rent for?

Posted on: 6/8 20:59
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I have talked with a friend on that and we agree. The more ruckus we can do to make people aware the better for the curve adjustment - I intend to stay. What is really puzzling is the aussies that keep buying $2M houses. Regardless of steady income why would one do this right now?

Posted on: 6/8 20:25
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Lots of properties in small geographic area tho.

Last reval before cancelled had "years of data". City hasnt even awarded a contract for reval that supposedly done in little over a year.

Posted on: 6/8 20:01
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impossible. 2 years seems to be realistic time frame to do the actual appraisal. city will ask and get extension(s).


Well, yes, if they keep dragging their feet it would be impossible to get ANYTHING done. But, honestly, geographically, JC is not THAT big, so getting this reval done in a year should be readily doable.

Posted on: 6/8 17:01
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impossible. 2 years seems to be realistic time frame to do the actual appraisal. city will ask and get extension(s).

Posted on: 6/8 16:38
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If this whole mess starts november 2017 (?) wouldn't it take at least a year or two to appraise every single property in the city and figure out changes in taxes ?

...


Nov 2017 is completion date - and will impact tax bills from Jan 2018.

Posted on: 6/8 16:29
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If this whole mess starts november 2017 (?) wouldn't it take at least a year or two to appraise every single property in the city and figure out changes in taxes ?


The state ordered the reval to be completed by Nov. 2017.

Posted on: 6/8 16:28
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By the time the reval is complete - the market should price concerns about higher property taxes into account.

If this whole mess starts november 2017 (?) wouldn't it take at least a year or two to appraise every single property in the city and figure out changes in taxes ?

Thats at least a good amount of time for the market to sort itself out although I do see some volatility as the reality sets in short term.

Posted on: 6/8 16:13
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