edgewordwise wrote:
Hmm why so bitter about the Latin Mass, esp? Between this and “woe to clergy” you somehow took offense to, it would seem to me you work in parish ministry. Most quiet Catholics are rather ambivalent about liturgy. FYI I attend vernacular Masses and still find inspiration, but the Latin Mass is like a magnet school for more studious Catholics, so makes for more stimulating churchy conversation if that is one’s preference. So what high horse are you talking about? I still believe what I was taught in CCD and only came to the Latin Mass later in life. I don’t think I am better than anyone else, but I like any Catholic confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and founded the Catholic Church upon St. Peter. That’s all in Vatican II documents.

I am curious what your vision of what the future of the Church should be. If it’s just going to be one with vague platitudes and attempting to forgive something that isn’t considered wrong to begin with, then it will lose its purpose and eventually become irrelevant, just another NGO as Pope Francis said.

Before I completely digress from the topic of this thread, I would admit that I slept overnight in a rectory living room when I was 12 because the priest friend of my family was scared to be alone that night. There was no contact as he was in his own room but I did get concerned looks from the church staff who saw me the next morning. Was driven nack home and it never happened again. So in retrospect I could have been a victim and could have had every reason to abandon my faith but choose to remain.

edgewordwise wrote:
The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops like these.

edgewordwise wrote:
Wow, again with assuming the worst of someone’s intentions. Sutherland, for someone who admits not having been to Mass regularly in years, you are still obsessed with this institution enough to remain a spectator. Perhaps that is a good thing and one day you will come around and darken the doors of your parish church once more (if it hasn’t been closed already) and cast your cares upon the Lord.

There was a time when straight people were regularly refused sacraments for canonical reasons and people humbly accepted it. Then the Church seemed to relax its precepts except for gay people, so understandably everyone finds this unjust. But the injustice really is to the straight people who have been given a free pass for offenses they’ve committed. They’ve been denied Catholicism in all its guilty glory. Your average clergyman may be overly lenient, but God is not mocked. Everyone deserves the truth.

esp123 wrote:
Don’t want to give this dumpster fire more oxygen, but what is wrong with both Yvonne and Mao?

Yvonne posts about some harebrained homophobic theories related to the Catholic church crisis, but then Mao posts an article arguing Matt Shepard’s death wasn’t a hate crime, that he was killed because both Shepard and his killers were meth addicts? (BTW, according to the article police say toxicology reports do not back that up)

Yvonne seems addlebrained, but Mao’s post seems gratuitous, almost mean-spirited, under the guise of ignorance. What was the point, but to bring down the memory of Shepard, an attempt to undervalue Shepard’s life, what Mao calls a “hagiography.” I would note that most people, even Jesus of Nazereth, were/are hagiographed after death, particularly violent deaths.

edgewordwise wrote:


To return to the original post, why is Fr. Gerry still listed as in-residence in the OLC church bulletin and not one mention of this particular scandal is made? This kind of damage control or lack thereof by ignoring the elephant in the room is discouraging.

Mao wrote:
Dear Sutherland and Frankn M:

Why do you, Mr. Sutherland, reject this article and why do you Frank M., resort to expletives?

Dr. Fitzgibbons describes narcissim as a personality trait associated with sexual assault and he seems to bring a psychodynamic approach to how this unfolds. He also is unequivocal in his support of Christian sexual morality. This does, of course, go against the majority of mental health professionals who have an antagonistic relationship with traditionial Christianity. Freud may be largely discredited but some of this antagonism started with him (even though he is actually much more nuanced on this).,

Richard W. Sipe, an ex monk, progressive psycoanalayst, also did some really good work in this area. He rejects Christian sexual morality and sees the problem as the dynamic of the guardians of the Faith who privately don't believe in the faith creating a web of deceit. http://www.awrsipe.com/

Sexual predation of minors or of subordinates is so heinous that I think the Sipe thesis alone is inadquate. Personality disorder, or demons, seems about right.

Yours,

Mao

Yvonne wrote:
Sexual predator McCarrick was archbishop of Newark, he appointed many people to high positions including telling Pope Francis to appoint Tobin now Cardinal to McCarrick's old post. .

Mao wrote:
Dr. FitzGibbons is a very well respected psychiatrist with lots of experience with this abuse. His article, I think, is interesting. I know ESP will rail that LifeSite News is a alt right, blah blah blah. Try to read the article before rejecting it.



Anyone who blames abuse crisis on ‘clericalism’ is part of the abuse crisis cover-up: Psychiatrist
Catholic, Clergy Sex Abuse Scandal, Clericalism, Homosexuality, Pope Francis, Sex Abuse Crisis In Catholic Church

September 12, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – The present severe crisis of sexual abuse by bishops and priests in the Church worldwide has resulted in a number of opinions regarding its origins.

The recent Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report identified the homosexual predation of males; the Holy Father and Cardinal Cupich blame “clericalism”; the John Jay Causes and Context study (2011) postulated "availability."

My professional opinion as a psychiatrist with forty years of clinical experience is that the cause of the abuse crisis is rooted in psychological and spiritual conflicts in bishops and in priests, specifically a narcissism and a profound weakness in male confidence which inclines them to homosexual predation.

Homosexual predation
The recent Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report helps to clarify the origins of the sexual harassment of youth. It identifies 73% of the victims as being subjected to homosexual predation.

This finding is also consistent with the reports of the sexual harassment by Archbishop McCarrick of children, teenagers, young adults and adults.

Again, this finding is consistent with my clinical experience as a psychiatrist over the past forty years in treating priest abusers. In every case I knew of sexual involvement with children or adolescents, the perpetrator had previously been involved in adult homosexual relationships.

Summary of Pennsylvania Predator Priest Activity

Heterosexual Predation – 23%

child - 6%
female teenage victims- 16%
female adult victims -1 %
Homosexual Predation – 73%

child victims 11%
male teenage victims – 60%
male adult victims -2%
Child Porn

Gender Non-Specific - 4%
(Source: 40th Statewide Investigating Grand Jury REPORT 1 / Interim – Redacted. 2018.)

The Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report notably identifies the sexual harassment of children, teenagers and adults as “homosexual predation of children, teenagers and adults by an adult male.” It specifically did not use the terms of the John Jay report of pedophilia for child abuse or of ephebophilia for adolescent-abusive acts. Instead, the Pennsylvania Report clarified that a male’s engaging in sexually abusive behaviors toward another male is homosexual predation regardless of the age of the victim.

Clericalism
Pope Francis on August 20, 2018, stated that “clericalism” was the root cause of the sex abuse crisis in Pennsylvania. He stated:

“Clericalism, whether fostered by priests themselves or by lay persons, leads to an excision in the ecclesial body that supports and helps to perpetuate many of the evils that we are condemning today. To say ‘no’ to abuse is to say an emphatic ‘no’ to all forms of clericalism.”

Clericalism has been described elsewhere as a “disordered attitude” toward clergy which often results in an “excessive deference and an assumption of their moral superiority.” Pope Francis has noted that such an attitude can be “fostered by priests themselves or by lay persons.”

Clericalism, however, does not result in a psychological need in a priest for a sexual encounter with another male, especially an adolescent.

The Holy Father did not acknowledge the role of homosexual predation among clergy in the Pennsylvania crisis.

Cardinal Cupich also identified clericalism, not homosexual priests, as the cause of the sexual abuse crisis. Recently, the arrest of two priests of the Archdiocese of Chicago for public lewdness erodes the tag of clericalism.

In my professional opinion, in an effort to deny the role of homosexuality in the sexual abuse crisis, clericalism and availability (the John Jay Report) have been incorrectly identified as major causes. There is no psychological relationship between clericalism, availability and the sexual abuse of youth.

Both these terms manifest an attempt to cover-up the true origins of the abuse crisis.

Availability - John Jay Report
In the John Jay first report of The Nature and Scope of Sexual Abuse of Minors (2004), 4,392 clerics were accused of childhood sexual abuse, which represented about 4 percent of clerics in active ministry during the study period.

It found that incidents of clergy sexual abuse of youth increased in the 1960s, peaked around 1980, and have been declining since then. This time period coincided with a major rebellion by bishops, priests, Catholic universities and educators, and the laity against the Church’s teaching on sexual morality, which was reasserted by Pope Paul VI in Humanae Vitae.

Table 1 Alleged victims of sexual abuse incidents, grouped by gender and age

Age in years 1–7 8–10 11–14 15–17

Male
Number 203 992 4,282 2,892

Female
Number 284 398 734 502

(Source: John Jay College, The Nature and Scope of Sexual Abuse of Minors, 53, table 3.54.)

The John Jay Report found that 81% of the alleged victims were males.

The Causes and Context study (2011) by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice concluded that the childhood and adolescent sexual abuse committed by clergy was unrelated to homosexuality. Instead, they identified the predation and abuse of adolescent males, the primary victims in the crisis, as a crime of opportunity or availability. While criminologists may describe homosexual predation in imprisoned men as arising from availability, this theory is not applicable to the general public or to priests.

The John Jay second study ignored the severe psychological conflicts and grooming behaviors in priests and bishops, such as Archbishop McCarrick who sexually abused minors, seminarians and adults.

Psychological and spiritual conflicts
The major psychological conflicts that contribute to the homosexual predation of children, adolescents and seminarians in my clinical experience over the past 40 years are narcissism and a profound weakness in male confidence.

I have described the role of narcissism in the epidemic of sexually aggressive behaviors in the media, as well as in singles and adolescents of both sexes.

Narcissism can lead a man to act against his natural role as protector of youth and to think and feel that he is entitled to use others as sexual objects.

If a priest fails to teach and live the Church’s truth about sexual morality and chastity as contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Humanae Vitae, he does not configure himself to Jesus Christ and fails to surrender his sexuality to the Lord. This weakness in sacrificial self-giving weakens his confidence and makes him vulnerable to situational ethics and to act-out sexually.

Also, Archbishop Joseph Naumann has written an excellent letter in response to the sexual abuse crisis in which he challenges priests to preach on the Church’s truth about sexual morality and chastity.

“The priest needs to be able to articulate, in a convincing and compelling way, why heterosexual intimacy outside of the marital covenant is gravely immoral, as well as why homosexual activity is also always seriously sinful,” he wrote.

Responses to the causes of the crisis
The trust in the hierarchy and in the Holy Father himself has been profoundly damaged by the sexual abuse crisis, the response to it and the accusations by Archbishop Viganò of a cover-up of Archbishop McCarrick’s predatory homosexual behavior by top leaders in the Church.

Robert George has identified the documents that are essential to review in response to the allegations of a cover-up of Archbishop McCarrick’s evil behaviors by the Vatican authorities. He suggested that the only way to arrive at the truth would be for the Pope to order church officials to release all pertinent documents in any and all Vatican and Washington offices.

Archbishop Chaput’s recommendation to the Holy Father that he cancel the Synod on Youth seems prudent. He said, “Right now, the bishops would have absolutely no credibility in addressing this topic.” Instead, he recommends that a Synod of Bishops be held to address the sexual abuse crisis in the Church.

In my professional opinion, Archbishop Chaput is correct. The mistrust in the laity is so severe at this time, because of the predatory homosexual abuse of youth and seminarians and its continued cover-up by bishops, that they would not trust the views of bishops in the proceedings or conclusions of a Synod on Youth.

The Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report that identifies homosexual predation in 73% of the cases victims of alleged abuse cannot be ignored, denied or rationalized.

A commitment should be made to follow the 2002 recommendation of Pope John Paul II in response to the crisis in the United States, which was to teach the fullness of the Church’s truth on sexual morality. It would also mean ending the inexplicable and culpable silence on sexual morality and marriage as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Humanae Vitae. This also would mean learning or relearning moral theology that already proved itself capable of converting an over-sexualized pagan world.

Cardinal Francis George, the late Archbishop of Chicago, spoke of this truth at the annual meeting of the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries in Chicago in 1999. He said:

“It is possible, with God's grace, for everyone to live a chaste life, including persons experiencing same-sex attraction. To deny that the power of God's grace enables those with homosexual attractions to live chastely is to deny, effectively, that Jesus has risen from the dead.”

Once authentic Catholic moral theology has been learned and communicated, then mandatory conferences on homosexuality should be required for priests and bishops in every diocese and seminary given by Courage, the only international program in the Church for those with same-sex attraction that is loyal to the Church’s teaching. Such conferences should also be required of the cardinals, bishops and priests serving in the Vatican.

Since the John Jay Report failed to identify the psychological and spiritual causes of the sexual abuse crisis, the programs developed to protect youth and priests from further abuse are seriously deficient and must be corrected.

The USCCB should consult with mental health professionals who support the Church’s teaching on sexual morality, such as in the Catholic Medical Association, and who understand the role of narcissism and psychological conflicts in the origins of same-sex attraction and homosexual predation of males of all ages. These professionals should then develop their aspect of a comprehensive program to protect priests from sexual acting-out with youth, primarily adolescent males, and with their own peers.

The laity also has a responsibility to be active in protecting the truths in the Church as it did in the Arian heresy. They must demand that bishops and priests be spiritual fathers who are loyal to the Church by preaching the truth.

It is time to face the truth about the origins of the sexual abuse crisis so that the Church remains faithful to Jesus Christ and does not participate in the de-Christianization of the culture.

Editor's note: Rick Fitzgibbons, M.D. coedited an August 2011 issue of the Catholic Medical Association’s Linacre Quarterly on the crisis in the Church in which he co-authored several articles, is a member of the John Paul II Academy for Human Life and Family, has taught at the John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family at Catholic University of America and has served as a consultant to the Congregation for Clergy at the Vatican. His forthcoming book on strengthening Catholic marriages will be published in 2019 by Ignatius Press.

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
I hope to god Yvonne runs for office again someday. Each and every quote here should be put into an attack ad and mailed out to the entire city.

esp123 wrote:
Mao-
Why are you so hung up on sex between consenting adults, if they are fully “consenting” and “adults”?

If it’s the case of assault, rape, or sexual harassment where someone like McCarrick who Yvonne says was using his position to pressure, then that’s not consentual. But hello, predators in the world are just as likely to be heterosexual, so you both focusing on the orientation of homosexuality, rather than the abusive behavior, IS intellectual dishonesty and homophobia.

If it’s the case of pedophilia and underage children as victims, then they are not adults, so again lack of true consent.

For your sake, I hope it is disingenuousness about your underlying motivations, rather than absence of cognitive ability to comprehend these really not difficult to understand distinctions. Remember, consenting adults. Victims who are underage or those who are assaulted or those who are in an employee or position of less power than the abuser by definition are not consenting and/or adults.

In the case of the Catholic church, gay priests who are sexually activel and yet the next day are preaching that premarital sex and homosexuality will damn you to hell, may be hypocrites. But in the case of those who are gay and enter the Catholic priesthood because they feel can’t freely live who they are otherwise within the Catholic community says more about the shortcomings of the fundamentalist Catholic community and doctrine.

And calling out the hypocrisy is very different from denouncing priests because of their sexual orientation and making this abuse crisis about that. It is the hypocrisy, the lies, the predatory behavior, and the covering up for predatory behavior that can legitimately be criticized, without making this abuse scandal the excuse to demonize gays and blame abusive behavior on sexual orientation.

Mao and his fundamentalist Tridentine latin-mass, Pope Francis-hating, far-from-mainstream Catholic brethren are clearly trying to use this scandal as a way to purge more mainstream Catholic leaders.

Yvonne wrote:
I am looking forward to the raids in NY State and NJ, so what you call 'heresy' will turn into prison time. I want justice for the victims and church cleaned from predatory priests.

Actually, I have given facts, there was the letter from the website from a seminary then there was the link from Church Militant. Church Militant gets their information for priests, seminarians and even some bishops. Lately, their information has come prosecutors. The people at that website has worked as professional reporters in the secular media and have contacts with law enforcements. Then, there is the testimony of Alice Von Hilebrand (who is still living), who spoke to Bella Dodd who said in the 1920s and 1930s she recruited 1100 men to enter the seminary. Dodd said she belonged to the Communist Party. Stalin request that she place two types of men in the seminary, men with no faith and homosexual men. Bella Dodd also spoke before Congress on this and there are books written about this subject. As these men become bishops, they were looking for other homosexual men, the reason for the South American connection of seminarians who were kicked out and found places in the US. Personally, I am looking forward to the investigation of NJ. Sexual payments were made by the Archdioceses of Newark and Metuchen. I want the truth, I don't care about agendas.