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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Agreed and these appeasement politics should end it just rips society apart.

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Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.

Posted on: 2/16 19:45
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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If the tax burden also get shitted well to super rich builders I don't think the rate would be 1.62 and would be much lower. Agreed every one should pay as per property price increase but still with new tax code and everything people of JC will feel the pain for a long time.



HCResident wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


I can think of many people who paid $40,000 to $70,000 for their homes and got $30,000 or more tax bill. In the meanwhile the city has been handing out tax abatements for newer developments at every chance they get. "Make JC Yours" was all about selling JC cheap with those tax abatements.


What don’t you understand about this? Value of property has nothing to do with what you paid to purchase it. You of all people know this. You sold property downtown. Did you sell for the same amount you paid for it?

We all know you didn’t. Property taxes are based on property value. If the value goes up, the taxes go up.

Yet, Jersey City has gone 30 years where the taxes weren’t levied according to real value. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

So sorry peoples’ property values went up. They should have held their representatives’ feet to the fire and made them do this on a timely basis. Then there wouldn’t be all this sticker shock.

But let’s be honest. They all wanted the rewards of raising property values, without the ramifications of them. I can’t get a whole lot of sympathy worked up for this.[/quote]

Posted on: 2/16 19:40
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Well when they brought the property it was certainly not 1M may be half the price.

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papadage wrote:
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avinandre wrote:
The tax payment should be similar for all. While builders like lefrak get big tax abatement on rental properties in Newport ? Does tax system treat everyone similarly ? A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Property taxes should be fair. If your house (living in downtown is worth 1,000,000 - you should pay 16,000 and if you live in a poorer area of our city, say Greenville, and your house is worth 200,000, you should pay 3200. That's fair and equal. If a lawyer, living in a brownstone, worth 1,000,000 cannot afford to pay another 6,000 (and with new tax law, exempt it from his taxes beyond 10,000), he or she needs to reconsider what to do with the property. I have a feeling the lawyer will be able to afford the 60 percent increase. I know it sucks, but fair is fair and other parts of the city should not be taxed unequally and disadvantaged.


The mortgage alone, without taxes, on a $1MM property, assuming a 20% down payment, totals to more than the entire median household income of the US. An average family could not afford to live in a place like that, even if they did not need to eat, or have any electricity usage, or any other expenses at all. Not even any federal taxes.

Translation:

Yes.. only rich people can afford million dollar properties.

Posted on: 2/16 19:22
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


Prices have inflated a lot in last 3 years so I don't think that equate well here and reval is happening at the peak.

Posted on: 2/16 19:19
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.

Posted on: 2/16 18:42
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


I can think of many people who paid $40,000 to $70,000 for their homes and got $30,000 or more tax bill. In the meanwhile the city has been handing out tax abatements for newer developments at every chance they get. "Make JC Yours" was all about selling JC cheap with those tax abatements.


What don’t you understand about this? Value of property has nothing to do with what you paid to purchase it. You of all people know this. You sold property downtown. Did you sell for the same amount you paid for it?

We all know you didn’t. Property taxes are based on property value. If the value goes up, the taxes go up.

Yet, Jersey City has gone 30 years where the taxes weren’t levied according to real value. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

So sorry peoples’ property values went up. They should have held their representatives’ feet to the fire and made them do this on a timely basis. Then there wouldn’t be all this sticker shock.

But let’s be honest. They all wanted the rewards of raising property values, without the ramifications of them. I can’t get a whole lot of sympathy worked up for this.

Posted on: 2/16 18:20
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

avinandre wrote:
The tax payment should be similar for all. While builders like lefrak get big tax abatement on rental properties in Newport ? Does tax system treat everyone similarly ? A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Property taxes should be fair. If your house (living in downtown is worth 1,000,000 - you should pay 16,000 and if you live in a poorer area of our city, say Greenville, and your house is worth 200,000, you should pay 3200. That's fair and equal. If a lawyer, living in a brownstone, worth 1,000,000 cannot afford to pay another 6,000 (and with new tax law, exempt it from his taxes beyond 10,000), he or she needs to reconsider what to do with the property. I have a feeling the lawyer will be able to afford the 60 percent increase. I know it sucks, but fair is fair and other parts of the city should not be taxed unequally and disadvantaged.


The mortgage alone, without taxes, on a $1MM property, assuming a 20% down payment, totals to more than the entire median household income of the US. An average family could not afford to live in a place like that, even if they did not need to eat, or have any electricity usage, or any other expenses at all. Not even any federal taxes.

Translation:

Yes.. only rich people can afford million dollar properties.

Posted on: 2/16 18:14
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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It's a good thing taxes are not based on 30 year old values then, isn't it?

Posted on: 2/16 18:11
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


I can think of many people who paid $40,000 to $70,000 for their homes and got $30,000 or more tax bill. In the meanwhile the city has been handing out tax abatements for newer developments at every chance they get. "Make JC Yours" was all about selling JC cheap with those tax abatements.

Posted on: 2/16 17:57
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avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.

Posted on: 2/16 17:51
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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The tax payment should be similar for all. While builders like lefrak get big tax abatement on rental properties in Newport ? Does tax system treat everyone similarly ? A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Property taxes should be fair. If your house (living in downtown is worth 1,000,000 - you should pay 16,000 and if you live in a poorer area of our city, say Greenville, and your house is worth 200,000, you should pay 3200. That's fair and equal. If a lawyer, living in a brownstone, worth 1,000,000 cannot afford to pay another 6,000 (and with new tax law, exempt it from his taxes beyond 10,000), he or she needs to reconsider what to do with the property. I have a feeling the lawyer will be able to afford the 60 percent increase. I know it sucks, but fair is fair and other parts of the city should not be taxed unequally and disadvantaged.

Posted on: 2/16 17:05
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brewster wrote:
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tictaktoe wrote:
are you nuts?


Some things are self evident. What is not is that this creature claims to have taught children in school! That essay gets a D.


What is evident is the fact, I challenge you, Brewster to attend the next budget hearing, but instead like school children that you quote, prefer to engage in personal attacks. The playground at schools is full of this childish behavior.

Posted on: 2/16 13:49
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tictaktoe wrote:
are you nuts?


Some things are self evident. What is not is that this creature claims to have taught children in school! That essay gets a D.

Posted on: 2/16 11:40
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dtjcview wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Since JC gets almost as much from other state taxpayers to support JC schools as its total budget it's laughable to say JC had high taxes, especially given the proposed 1.62 rate.


Where is stateaidguy when you need him? That 1.62 rate is a pretty big hammer...


If you think that 1.62 is a big hammer, just wait a year or two. Once the county decides to adjust the JC contribution, it will go up. And, there is a very good chance that the state will cut back on the school funding, which will also lead to a higher school tax for residents. Also, if the market valuations drop, the rate will have to go up to compensate for the drop. I wouldn't be surprised to see a rate of 2% (or, higher) in the next few years.

Posted on: 2/16 9:44
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Monroe wrote:
Since JC gets almost as much from other state taxpayers to support JC schools as its total budget it's laughable to say JC had high taxes, especially given the proposed 1.62 rate.


Where is stateaidguy when you need him? That 1.62 rate is a pretty big hammer...

Posted on: 2/16 8:41
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Haggis wrote:
Does anyone know how many owners have not rec'd their reval yet?
Haven't seen my property on any list, mailbox filled daily with useless spam.
Just want to know at this point.
Thanks mates.

Second that!

Posted on: 2/16 8:08
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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brewster wrote:
[quote]
LOL! So true.


Yrah, like your banging on about a single little league baseball field equating that with an insufficient supply of ball fields. Got it. Your too busy trying to climb out of the big kettle to notice how black it is...

Posted on: 2/16 7:02
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Yvonne wrote:
Please Brewster, come and speak at a budget hearing, because I am tired of being the only public speaker.


Ah, there it is. The great confusion between talking and knowing. Yes, Yvonne - you talk. If you spent half as much time listening as you do talking, you might actually know something.

Posted on: 2/16 6:48
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tictaktoe wrote:
are you nuts?


So I take it you will not attend a budget hearing but just criticize me when I quote from the budget on why the tax rate and really the revaluation is out of whack.


Posted on: 2/15 23:41
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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are you nuts?

Posted on: 2/15 23:23
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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For some reason, I do not see Brewster or others at the budget. Here are some facts: When the 1988 revaluation happened, it took $5 million to create one dollar, these are rough figures. Where did I get this information from? Our previous business administrators, including Brian O'Reilly, who I had a good relationship. Every information I asked for, he gave me. My other source is tax office at Hudson County. Sometimes I am the only person speaking at budget hearing, so I disagree with your statement Brewster. I have been asking these questions for more than 30 years. According to Duda, the shift in revaluation will take place in our August bill, which is great. August is the first payment for the fiscal year. JC reversed back to a calendar year. If the revaluation was to happened today for the February quarter, the taxpayers would have to go back to August of 2017. That happened in the 1988 revaluation. Jersey City was unique in that in 1988, we had a calendar year, then in 1991, we matched the state with a fiscal year and about 5 years ago, the city returned backed to a calendar year. I was concerned about the city giving the corrected tax bills in May, if that happened, taxpayers would have to go back to fix the back taxes to August of 2017, as I have already stated. When the new ratio happens, I will ask the business administrator as well as the county tax assessor how much money is used to create one dollar for that is listed on our tax bill. Just to throw in some history, it took $212.00 to raise one dollar on the tax rate before the 1988 revaluation. Please Brewster, come and speak at a budget hearing, because I am tired of being the only public speaker. There are amazing things you learn. Since there is no time limit on budget hearings, I do go into details on fiscal matters. By the way, the Friendly Budget lists how much money tax abated property saves by having an abatement. That is another interesting fact. It is the one thing, Governor Christie demanded municipalities do. So while you are talking about fairness, it clearly states in black and red what tax abated properties are not paying and what they would pay if it were treated as a ratable.

Posted on: 2/15 23:08
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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$485 million in 2013 works out to $515 million in 2017, when adjusted for CPI (https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm)

And the population has grown by what? 10k in that time? (This is just my estimate based on the 17k increase between 2010 and 2016).

Adjusted for inflation and population growth, I don't think the budget has exactly exploded.

Posted on: 2/15 20:17
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
What is missing from this revaluation is the budget, yes the budget is the number based on those figures. When Healy left office, the budget was $485 million. Fulop's last budget - 2017 - was $588 million. I personally believe Fulop stopped revaluation so he would not be under any scrutiny on his spending habits and he could give 70 plus tax abatement in his first term. Remember how he would attack Healy for tax abatements? For those wondering why we did not feel the impact of the spending, it has to do with expired tax abatements. The tax abatements granted under Schundler expired and the ratable base increase. I have always said our taxes are high due to tax abatements because they are not ratables.


Wasn’t one of the first things Mayor Fulop do when he took office was amend Healy’s $485 million budget because of a short fall? So when saying “Healy left office, the budget was $485 million” that 485 should have a ‘*’ next to it.

7/10/2013 JJ: “The amendments, which increase the proposed spending plan to $516 million, represent "a variety of changes,” city Assistant Business Administrator Bob Kakoleski told the council at its special meeting tonight.”

And wasn’t the next thing Mayor Fulop do when he took office was come up with a tiered abatement plan to encourage development in other parts of JC? It seems to be working.

8/22/2013 JJ: “The plan, which Fulop called a top priority when he was running for mayor this spring, creates a six-tier system that provides more benefits to developers seeking to build in Journal Square, Bergen-Lafayette and Greenville and fewer perks for those building along the waterfront.”

I bet you were great playing Twister.




Posted on: 2/15 20:11
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Yvonne wrote:
What is missing from this revaluation is the budget


No, the budget isn't missing because it has nothing to do with the reval. The reval is about EQUALITY BETWEEN PROPERTY TAX PAYERS!!! It does not raise the tax levy. Is the city wasteful and the budget too high? likely, but that is not the issue of the reval, and you keep inserting it and other nonsense as a way to muddy the issue, just like all your accusations of "free rider" to people paying PILOTS far higher than your taxes. In fact, had the reval taken place on schedule all the people underpaying might have been more engaged in how the city was spending their money. Will they now? Hopefully, but THE BUDGET HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REVAL!

Monroe, I've given up on calling her out on the "high taxes" BS. I used to say "prove that they're high", but she does not deal in facts.

Posted on: 2/15 19:46
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Since JC gets almost as much from other state taxpayers to support JC schools as its total budget it's laughable to say JC had high taxes, especially given the proposed 1.62 rate.

Posted on: 2/15 19:37
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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What is missing from this revaluation is the budget, yes the budget is the number based on those figures. When Healy left office, the budget was $485 million. Fulop's last budget - 2017 - was $588 million. I personally believe Fulop stopped revaluation so he would not be under any scrutiny on his spending habits and he could give 70 plus tax abatement in his first term. Remember how he would attack Healy for tax abatements? For those wondering why we did not feel the impact of the spending, it has to do with expired tax abatements. The tax abatements granted under Schundler expired and the ratable base increase. I have always said our taxes are high due to tax abatements because they are not ratables.

Posted on: 2/15 18:56
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HeightsNative wrote:
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
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Well put. People calling for a phase in are being greedy and encouraging more bad behavior.


Not really. Rather this conversation is just above the level of comprehension and analytical capability for some folk.


Yes, and those people who can't comprehend it are the ones downtown crying foul. Thank you for confirming!!


LOL! So true.

Posted on: 2/15 18:50
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
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Well put. People calling for a phase in are being greedy and encouraging more bad behavior.


Not really. Rather this conversation is just above the level of comprehension and analytical capability for some folk.


Yes, and those people who can't comprehend it are the ones downtown crying foul. Thank you for confirming!!

Posted on: 2/15 17:01
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SOS wrote:
At the HCA meeting with Fulop and Solomon on Monday the 12th, it was mentioned that all value letters will be sent by February 19.

Perhaps Terrance McDonald can confirm this date?


Company told me the Feb. date referred to Downtown properties. All properties should get their letters by mid-March, they said.

Posted on: 2/15 16:54
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Well put. People calling for a phase in are being greedy and encouraging more bad behavior.


Not really. Rather this conversation is just above the level of comprehension and analytical capability for some folk.

Posted on: 2/15 16:50
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