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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Just curious -- Have many people in the Heights gotten their appraisal levels yet? I see a couple condo building listed on asinj's website. But my neighbors and I haven't gotten anything on our 1-2 family homes.

Posted on: Yesterday 22:29
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I personally had no problem with the original company that Healy hired. When Brian O'Reilly retired and started to work with them, I actually thought it was a good idea because he was born and raised in Jersey City. I would have trusted his judgment especially since he knew about the flooding in downtown and Country Village. That was not taken into consideration from the meeting at the Barrow Mansion. Mark Duda said homeowners should have mentioned it. O'Reilly knew about our flooding problems. Plus the fact he was the tax assessor before he was the Business Administrator.

Posted on: Yesterday 18:08
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Bamb00zle wrote:

So, if you’re correct Brewster, the new reval company Fulop hired to replace the crooked, terrible, incompetent reval company he fired, has completely screwed up…. And the city is likely in for more law suits, and another reval in short order.


There's not enough data as far as I know to conclude one way or the other, although there's a guy on next door asking people to send him their data for DT. It does bother me that the land and Improvements columns are missing from the Excel sheet being released, when they are feature of even the simplest tax card. Were it there, then any inequality would be in your face, so its absence is definitely suspicious.

One thing is for sure, the kind of information inequality that this issue must have had in 1988 will not be tolerated in 2018. Perhaps this is something James Solomon actually can help with.

Posted on: Yesterday 17:40
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well, i'm no fan of fulop but i doubt he's stupid enuff to be "in bed" with the appraisal company. also, there are gonna be issues with any appraisal. it makes sense to do another appraisal, imo, next year and then rolling appraisals until dtjc market adjusts and stabilizes. i don't think it's in anyone's interest to see dtjc become a ghost town after 6pm again since this would surely have negative knock-on effects for other neighborhoods.Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
All I know is that if land is now 60% of the value, and your neighbor's identical land is valued at half yours, making their taxes 30% lower, heads will roll. Downtowners will not accept the standard line: "your neighbors taxes are not relevant to your appeal". Land is land.

The "attorney density" DT is very high, they can't fudge this like they do regular appraisals. I've had appraisals where they groomed the numbers so that the comp, replacement, and income methods came out within a 1.3% range. You're more likely to golf 18 holes of "hole in one".


So, if you’re correct Brewster, the new reval company Fulop hired to replace the crooked, terrible, incompetent reval company he fired, has completely screwed up…. And the city is likely in for more law suits, and another reval in short order.

Given the City’s wanton disregard for the inequitable distribution of property taxes and the impact it had on different neighborhoods, I don’t understand why there isn’t some kind of disparate impact suit already….

How much is all this incompetence, to put it kindly, going to cost us? How many of our neighbors had to sell their homes over the past 20 years because taxes were so inequitable. And who bought those homes? There’s some stinky stuff hidden behind the LLC’s that buy so much property around here. Who are the real owners?

In any event it seems we now know why Fulop already floated the idea of another reval – he knows this one is an awful job. Won’t it be interesting if someone finds he’s connected in some way to the reval company he hired… I’m sure they’ve started looking.

Posted on: Yesterday 17:17
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brewster wrote:
All I know is that if land is now 60% of the value, and your neighbor's identical land is valued at half yours, making their taxes 30% lower, heads will roll. Downtowners will not accept the standard line: "your neighbors taxes are not relevant to your appeal". Land is land.

The "attorney density" DT is very high, they can't fudge this like they do regular appraisals. I've had appraisals where they groomed the numbers so that the comp, replacement, and income methods came out within a 1.3% range. You're more likely to golf 18 holes of "hole in one".


So, if you’re correct Brewster, the new reval company Fulop hired to replace the crooked, terrible, incompetent reval company he fired, has completely screwed up…. And the city is likely in for more law suits, and another reval in short order.

Given the City’s wanton disregard for the inequitable distribution of property taxes and the impact it had on different neighborhoods, I don’t understand why there isn’t some kind of disparate impact suit already….

How much is all this incompetence, to put it kindly, going to cost us? How many of our neighbors had to sell their homes over the past 20 years because taxes were so inequitable. And who bought those homes? There’s some stinky stuff hidden behind the LLC’s that buy so much property around here. Who are the real owners?

In any event it seems we now know why Fulop already floated the idea of another reval – he knows this one is an awful job. Won’t it be interesting if someone finds he’s connected in some way to the reval company he hired… I’m sure they’ve started looking.

Posted on: Yesterday 16:53
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Interesting point Brewster. I wonder what the POS is in challenging the land assessment discrepancies and hence, the entire appraisal process. Lawyers should know, but I have not seen this argument being bubbled up on Nextdoor..., yet.

Posted on: Yesterday 14:36
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All I know is that if land is now 60% of the value, and your neighbor's identical land is valued at half yours, making their taxes 30% lower, heads will roll. Downtowners will not accept the standard line: "your neighbors taxes are not relevant to your appeal". Land is land.

The "attorney density" DT is very high, they can't fudge this like they do regular appraisals. I've had appraisals where they groomed the numbers so that the comp, replacement, and income methods came out within a 1.3% range. You're more likely to golf 18 holes of "hole in one".

Posted on: Yesterday 12:47
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Actually, something similar happened after the 1988 revaluation. Land was under assessed and improvements (buildings) were over assessed. McCann got elected after the revaluation and make land values higher, he also increased businesses which was protected. McCann was sent to prison and Schundler came on the scene to finish the job of correcting the reval but the courts did not side with Schundler, however the land changes did remain. I remember my land value changed from $10,000 to $25,000 but the total assessment did not change, that land increase was deducted from the improvements.

Posted on: Yesterday 12:14
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Quote:

Frinjc wrote:
I can appreciate having another reval to capture the impact of the current one. That being said, I got the feeling that it is already captured in quite a few assessments. Just looking at friends assessment cards and my own, we seem to be in the 10-15% discount which would make a county appeal unsuccessful. I wonder it was intentional from the appraisal company.

Instead of having a single broad reval 2 years later, it would be more useful to have a plan for a rolling reval, e.g. 20% of properties every 2 years. It would fit within the 10 year mandate.


Agreed! It would be funny if the new reval captures the 10-15% discount, resulting in even higher property taxes downtown. The result of unintended consequences.

Posted on: Yesterday 11:16
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I'm getting the feeling the biggest issue of this reval will be the half assed way they're valuing the land, which has become the major portion of the home value. If, as someone said, it's valuation is the remainder after subtracting construction cost, this is going to be a shitshow. Every bank appraisal I've ever had has been a work of fiction in that "replacement cost" method. If they end up with the land values per sq ft on a block all over the place people are going to sue.

On the other hand, the land value is a way to keep assessments up to date between revals. Statistical analysis should be able to show how much land is appreciating in the various sectors of the city, and the land assessment could be adjusted yearly, greatly softening the blow of a reval. It's ridiculous that currently lot values can be so disparate, you don't need to count bathrooms to know what the dirt is worth.

Posted on: Yesterday 11:00
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I can appreciate having another reval to capture the impact of the current one. That being said, I got the feeling that it is already captured in quite a few assessments. Just looking at friends assessment cards and my own, we seem to be in the 10-15% discount which would make a county appeal unsuccessful. I wonder it was intentional from the appraisal company.

Instead of having a single broad reval 2 years later, it would be more useful to have a plan for a rolling reval, e.g. 20% of properties every 2 years. It would fit within the 10 year mandate.

Posted on: Yesterday 6:16
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By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Jersey City's long-delayed property revaluation is going so swimmingly, Mayor Steve Fulop wants to do it all again next year.

Fulop said tonight he plans to put a measure before the council in the upcoming weeks that would pave the way for a second reval in 2019, one the mayor said would readjust assessments in the wake of an expected dip in home values caused by the current reval.

"We are doing our best to make this difficult time as manageable as possible for residents because we don't want any resident to have to struggle," he said.

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Posted on: 2/22 22:55
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
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HeightsNative wrote:
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Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL


You can be assured one of them will be Yvonne, who will mug for the TV cameras and repeat her lies over and over.

Nick I see so much negativity towards Yvonne, are you a home owner and do you consider yourself affected by this reval ? Also are you pleased with the abatements and city services ? Just want to know why you do not think Yvonne's reasoning is valid.

Posted on: 2/22 22:11
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HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
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HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL


You can be assured one of them will be Yvonne, who will mug for the TV cameras and repeat her lies over and over.

Posted on: 2/22 21:56
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Seniors shouldn't be losing their homes when there are programs like this:

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/index.shtml


How much ? How much do they freeze it from.

Posted on: 2/22 21:23
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL

Posted on: 2/22 14:40
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Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.

Posted on: 2/22 14:08
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Who's organizing this sad protest?

Posted on: 2/22 14:01
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My sign is going to read:

GROSSLY NEGLIGENT 30 YEAR REVAL DELAY – HOLD JC POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE!!

Posted on: 2/22 13:58
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Yeah, I'm tempted to show up at the rally with a sign that says:

MAKE GREENVILLE KEEP PAYING MY TAXES!!!


This for sure. I have nothing to do on Saturday, and I was known for my crafting skills in kindergarten.

Posted on: 2/22 13:57
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Yeah, I'm tempted to show up at the rally with a sign that says:

MAKE GREENVILLE KEEP PAYING MY TAXES!!!

Posted on: 2/22 13:50
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Won't somebody think of all these unfortunate souls that mistakenly bought a multi-unit building, and now are sitting on huge gains in their investments? I mean, how can we expect them to dip into some of their profits to pay a fair property tax. If we don't protect them now, how else will all their money trickle down to the rest of us helpless saps that only own a single family, or don't even own a home?


Resized Image

Now I see people are organizing a protest of the new assessments. I have no problem with people exercising their right to assemble, but do these people really think they are going to get sympathy?

Serious question, do people think they were, or feel, cheated in someway when they bought their property? Did they think the taxes being payed under the old assessments were fair? Did they think the taxes would never increase?

Posted on: 2/22 13:03
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There's a new thread with a link showing JC's MEDIAN price went up 24% last year. Think on that, and that DT is undoubtedly higher than than. How long can you pay your taxes just from what you made last year?

Oh, and I'm wiping away tears for Yvonne's neighbor who probably makes $70k a year just from her 2 rentals and doesn't want to pay taxes on them or her own home.

Posted on: 2/22 12:09
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Years ago, I tried to help a neighbor with this program. Taxes went up that year around $300 for her. According to the form, she could only deduct her unit. Then she had a 4 unit, now it is just an 3 unit due to Sandy, Fema gave her one thousand while the damage was in the $20,000 to $30,000 range. If this still exists only seniors with one family homes benefits. I hope changes were made and ignore the per unit guidelines. Because my neighbor had Social Security and her rents which kept afloat to pay taxes and other bills. I am referring to the old tax rate not the new of $35,000.

Posted on: 2/22 11:00
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Seniors shouldn't be losing their homes when there are programs like this:

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/index.shtml


Posted on: 2/22 10:46
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brewster wrote:
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Strawhat wrote:
Also the thousands of people who have moved in within the last few years and had kids will one day have to send them to a high school. Not sure how all these transplants are going to feel about Ferris.


An interesting point I've seen made is that the AEP programs and McNair actually damage the district schools greatly by skimming the most talented students out. I wonder what my suburban school would have been like if the top 60 out of my class of 600 had been pulled out to a magnet HS.


Yea, I've heard that plenty of times too. There is obviously some logic to it, but as a Mcnair graduate myself I'm more happy that McNair and other AEP programs exist. These programs are ultimately a benefit for people like me.

I have one main issue with the argument that Mcnair damages other schools. Yes, taking kids from Mcnair and tossing them into the other schools may raise average test scores and whatnot, but that doesn't really matter if the state of the school and the education stays the same. The focus should be to fix and upgrade these schools. Mcnair existing should not take away from that focus.

Hopefully this new tax system can get us back on the right track.

Posted on: 2/22 9:20
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Parkman: "recharge their outrage"
Also Parkman: "I didn't say outrage in my original post"

Yes of course I understand sarcasm. But you're not being sarcastic. Downtowners are very outraged and their perception of what is going on is horribly misguided.

You're just one of many trying to spin this fictitious unfairness under the guise of altruism. Just stop. It's not doing any of you any favors.


Posted on: 2/22 7:36
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Parkman, I at least, have never said anything about what people expected decades ago, only their current status. It's just that when people with $1-3m in equity plead poverty that some of us feel that there's a real problem in perspective.

Posted on: 2/22 1:49
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parkman wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.
Let me take a nap due to my old age, and I'll answer you in the morning. The "under appreciated" have to recharge their outrage.


Ha. Outrage. You have no right to be outraged (bummed maybe). And given all the reasons listed before, if you're outraged, you're an indecent person.
OK, you woke me up. Where do you see the word "outrage" from me in the original post? The reply to Brewster was sarcasm, if you know what that is. I said it's "insulting" in the original to imply that long term residents, who have volunteered their time to make Downtown a better place to live, were motivated by a monetary gain. Nite.

Posted on: 2/21 23:54
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
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parkman wrote:
At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.
Let me take a nap due to my old age, and I'll answer you in the morning. The "under appreciated" have to recharge their outrage.


Ha. Outrage. You have no right to be outraged (bummed maybe). And given all the reasons listed before, if you're outraged, you're an indecent person.

Posted on: 2/21 23:44
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