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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#1
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
So, I used the ArcGIS reval, and picked a house with a recent sale date.

2016 purchase: $1.3m
2004 purchase: $700k
1997 purchase: $280k
2016 property taxes: $11k (or 0.85%)
Current assmt: $146k

I presume that after the reval, assuming the house is still worth $1.3m, their taxes will go up to $24,700.

If so, then what is the likely basis for their current property tax? It seems too high to be based off the "current assmt" figure in the database.


The actual tax rate on the assessed value is 7.7% (as opposed to an effective rate applied to FMV), thus my calculator turns up $11,242 when you multiply $146k x 0.077.

Rithmatic, man. Do you get it that between revals they raise the rate not the assessments?

Actually, I don't understand the mechanisms that they used to calculate current property tax rates in between the revals. Hence the question.

Posted on: Today 19:18
Top


Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#2
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
So, I used the ArcGIS reval, and picked a house with a recent sale date.

2016 purchase: $1.3m
2004 purchase: $700k
1997 purchase: $280k
2016 property taxes: $11k (or 0.85%)
Current assmt: $146k

I presume that after the reval, assuming the house is still worth $1.3m, their taxes will go up to $24,700.

If so, then what is the likely basis for their current property tax? It seems too high to be based off the "current assmt" figure in the database.


I don't have the actual numbers handy in front of me, but the assessed values are just about one fourth of the estimated value. In other words, the city thinks that property is worth about 650K. That is why the reval is long overdue.

I get that part. What I'm not clear on is:

• What is "current assmt" in the database
• Does it have any relation to the current property tax
• If not, then keeping in mind JC hasn't done a reval in nearly 30 years, what is the current tax amount based on?

Posted on: Today 19:14
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#3
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
If Tommy was sharper about real estate, he could have appealed his taxes, but only down to the effective rate of 2.1%.

What's the mechanism / reason for the limit on the effect of the appeal?


You can only win an appeal if you prove your FMV is more than 15% off your assessment/ratio (what they say it's worth). And even if you win, the effective rate only goes down to FMV/ratio, effectively around that 2.2% mark. That's still more than double what the legacy DT properties are paying.

According to Bamb00zle he was paying 0.7% before he sold. Well played sir. Maybe. I know if Yvonne had held on instead of bailing she and Mr Yvonne could have made another 1/2 million at least. That surely would have been more than the hit it would take for the taxes doubling.

Hmmm

So, I used the ArcGIS reval, and picked a house with a recent sale date.

2016 purchase: $1.3m
2004 purchase: $700k
1997 purchase: $280k
2016 property taxes: $11k (or 0.85%)
Current assmt: $146k

I presume that after the reval, assuming the house is still worth $1.3m, their taxes will go up to $24,700.

If so, then what is the likely basis for their current property tax? It seems too high to be based off the "current assmt" figure in the database.

Posted on: Today 11:30
Top


Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#4
Home away from home
Home away from home


Oh, I forgot to mention. If you rent in JC, and your landlord's property taxes go up, do you think that will have any effect on your rent...?

Posted on: Yesterday 20:17
Top


Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#5
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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
All this makes me even happier that I recently sold and moved to a rental. A tax rate of 2.1% on my former property would triple my taxes, and the impact on the property value would be severe, much more than the capital gains tax I'll pay.

Property taxes need to be adjusted to be fair. However, because of irresponsible actions by successive JC Administrations in avoiding a reval for 28 years it will be very painful. And when the State shifts more school costs to JC it will be worse. Even if that takes a couple of years, people will see it coming so it will hit property values.

The idea of a reverse mortgage to pay more tax to this dysfunctional City, particularly in view of a likely substantial hit to property values in the near future, has no appeal to me. The way I see it I've taken my gains and will wait.

Other factors are important to me as well. Transportation woes on NJT and PATH are only going to get a lot worse when all the over-development is completed. And with all those apartments becoming available and a softening NYC rental market the DT JC property market is going to look a whole lot different when those new assessment notices go out in about 12 months IMHO.

Uh huh fascinating

Hoboken completed its reval some time in 2013. Property values have gained 65% since January 2013. While JC RE prices are hardly guaranteed to increase under any circumstances, it's unlikely that the reval will seriously undermine property values in the long run.

Plus, the reval will be painful for some people -- and beneficial to others, namely the people who were carrying your water while you owned your place.

Thus, it seems highly unlikely that you can take the proceeds of your old apartment, and subtract the cost of rent (which is likely to increase next year), and buy back into the market in early 2019 without paying more. And properties that might be cheap? Those will have, wait for it... bigger tax bills, probably too big for you to want to pay.

We keep hearing people bitch about PATH, and problems keep not getting worse. Not to mention that by 2019 or so, at least some of the signal improvements will be phased in. And let's get real, it's going to be a lot easier to commute to NYC via the PATH train in 2019 than by driving or NJ Transit, and cheaper than taking a ferry (which will only benefit you if you live and work close to the ferry terminals) or a bus from the suburbs.

I.e. even if PATH sucks, everything else is probably gonna be worse.

Renting has some advantages. There are many viable reasons to sell a home and rent. Saving money by dodging a property tax increase that won't hit for about a year? It what may still be a hot market in the interim? Not sure that's one of them.

Posted on: Yesterday 19:55
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#6
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
If Tommy was sharper about real estate, he could have appealed his taxes, but only down to the effective rate of 2.1%.

What's the mechanism / reason for the limit on the effect of the appeal?


2/3 of homeowners will pay their fair share, but 1/3 will not be affected - tax abated properties. So therefore, there will never be a fair share of taxes.

1) I was asking why brewster is asserting that there is some type of limit on the effectiveness or reductions via an appeal.

2) I call BS on the idea that 1/3 of Jersey City housing units are abated.

3) Regardless of anything with with abatements, the reval makes property taxes more fair. And contrary to Monroe's claim, despite the fact that it's going to negatively impact me personally, I still advocate not just for this reval, but for more frequent revaluations.

Posted on: Yesterday 12:55
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#7
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
If Tommy was sharper about real estate, he could have appealed his taxes, but only down to the effective rate of 2.1%.

What's the mechanism / reason for the limit on the effect of the appeal?

Posted on: 5/20 19:21
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#8
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Everyone says people should pay their 'fair share', until they're the ones who need to pay their fair share.

My taxes will go up.

People need to pay their fair share. That includes me.

I'm not thrilled about it, but fair is fair.

Posted on: 5/20 19:06
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Re: chalk messages around downtown.
#9
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Quote:

EvilivE wrote:
if i go out there and start writing pro-trump slogans, you'll sooon see who all the snowflakes are... in addition to our original chalk-wielding revolutionaries, of course.

Oh, I'm sure people would complain. The question is, would they complain more or less than you? And more or less anxiously, or stridently, or bitterly than you?

My guess is it'd be about the same.

Posted on: 5/8 19:44
Top


Re: chalk messages around downtown.
#10
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Quote:

EvilivE wrote:
someone has too much time on their hands, and is hell-bent on letting us all know it. 'resist' and "impeach" writtten inside chalk hearts, as if suggesting it's colorfully cute to upend our government's leadership, during a time of heightened political tensions, simply because the other crooked candidate didn't win.

I don't know whether chalking (yes, that's a thing) is legal in JC. It's illegal in some areas, in part because it's classified as vandalism (even if there is no permanent damage), and because it's not seen as a critical impediment to free speech (there are plenty of other outlets that don't involve marking up state or private property). There may be issues if such laws are enforced selectively, but generally speaking those laws have held up in court.

That said: There is no need to be such a Sensitive Snowflake. People don't like the President; he's not getting more popular. You might as well get used to it.

Posted on: 5/8 17:21
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Re: Cutting down large trees on Barrow Street
#11
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
I recently learned that NYC chose to bury it's power & telecom lines in the 1st decade of the 20th century. Jersey, as always, still half assed.


Give it time. It's only been 100 years. Such advanced concepts take time to spread and take hold.

Yes, and I'm sure if they announced a plan to bury the power lines today, there would be an explosion of complaints by JC residents / JC List posters. Sidewalks torn up, short power outages, possible flood damage, the outrageous costs, and whatever pol recommends it will of course be pilloried and accused of taking donations/kickbacks....

Underground isn't a slam dunk, by the way. It's significantly more expensive to install and maintain, especially in developed areas; it's harder to upgrade; they aren't more reliable; failures are harder to locate; they're more susceptible to flood damage.

All that to save the occasional tree?

Posted on: 5/8 15:22
Top


Re: what's the status of White Eagle Hall?
#12
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Website seems to be blank, by the way....

Posted on: 5/1 13:32
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Re: The city and the Friends of the Loew's could be heading back to court.
#13
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Quote:

earthling wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

RichMauro wrote:
I don't know what to make of the legal issues, but the physical interior of the building in terms of rehabilitation is at a standstill imho.


The physical restoration and rehabilitation has been at a practical standstill since years ago. That is why I support the idea of bringing in a professional organization to run the place and oversee its renovation. I totally get that FOL saved the place from the wrecking ball, but they are definitely not up to the task of seeing through the effort of restoring the place to its former grandeur.


place needs truckloads of money to bring up to date. commercial investor is not guarantee that they will save the place.

i can picture them running it to the ground and turning into condos one day. fulop is proven to fail us time and again, and catering to his wall street masters

Would you like some vermouth with your bitters?

There was already a bidding process, and a contract awarded (AEG Live + Mana Contemporary + NJCU). Part of the deal is that AEG Live pitches in $3.5 million for the renovation.

The Loews is not for sale. No part of the contract sells the property to anyone. The city owns it, and will keep it. The contract most certainly does not allow AEG to turn it into condos.

Along with public interest in making it some kind of performing arts space, that's as good a guarantee as we're going to get.

Posted on: 4/28 15:53
Top


Re: Fulop to solicit proposals from for-profit companies to replace FOL in running the Loew’s theater
#14
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Quote:

kencares wrote:
It's sagas like this that remind you Steve Flop is just another Goldman Sachs politician in bed with Kushner.

The Loews is a local gem and should be managed by a local organization as a non-profit, not sold off to the highest bidder to extract profits for some mega corporation.

A non-profit will have a tough time raising the funds to fix the facility, let alone manage it properly. FOL certainly has shown it's not up to it.

The bid that was put out a year or so ago required that FOL program something like 6 days per year... which is more than FOL can currently manage.

We should also note that despite all the feuding, it sounds like FOL and Fulop are now in talks to move forward.

Posted on: 4/28 15:45
Top


Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
#15
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I remember that march, it went from City Hall to the County Building. I lost neighbors in that revaluation.

Boo freaking hoo.

The reval is revenue neutral. That means for every person whose taxes go up, someone else's tax will go down.

Those neighbors? The ones whose taxes went up? That was because they weren't paying their fair share. They were getting a tax break, while someone else was paying more than they should have.

Tax abatements has nothing whatsoever to do with this. The problem is that JC hasn't done a reval since 1988, which results in massive imbalances.

I realize it's one of your many pet peeves, but the problem isn't abatements. It's that mayor after mayor have refused to do their jobs, and order a reval.

Posted on: 4/27 12:33
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Re: another fulop protected slum burns down
#16
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Quote:

neverleft wrote:
It is a disaster waiting to happen and when it does a slick lawyer is going to request the complaint logs from JC’s help desk and sue the city for inaction.

Yaay, another prediction of DOOM. We never get enough of those in JC


Quote:
All the city needs to do is ask the people in the know…

Or, those "people in the know" can report possible violators.

http://www.jerseycitynj.gov/hedc.aspx?id=1180


Quote:
They will tell you how many different names are on the overseas letters.

They're federal employees. Not spies for the Division of Housing Code Enforcement.

Posted on: 4/24 19:19
Top


Re: another fulop protected slum burns down
#17
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Quote:

earthling wrote:
there is a fire like once a week. duh.

You do know there are over 110,000 residential units in Jersey City?


Quote:
>What qualifies as a "slum" to you?
34 gray street

Right, so basically... You have no actual data to back up your claims.


Quote:
>>jj never did a follow up to their own stories.

>How much of a follow-up does there need to be on a fire?

i will settle on a single one. if i were an editor, there would have been an investigative report on 20 000+ of illegal dwellings in jc.

Right. Because it's not like local media budgets have taken a massive hit, so that they can follow your fantasy allegations.

Where is this 20k number coming from? That's nearly 20% of all units in JC.


Quote:
>That's a pretty serious allegation. What's that based on?

knowledge. just ask him: 201-547-5200

So basically, you're pulling it out of your ass.

Thanks for nothin'.

Posted on: 4/24 19:14
Top


Re: another fulop protected slum burns down
#18
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Quote:

earthling wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

earthling wrote:

why policemen and firefighters have to risk their lives while greedy aida converts single family to slum, and scoops the profits?

Because... he's greedy? Not sure what more there is to say.


Quote:
why jersey journal self censors and never follows up to investigate such racket?

Huh?


Quote:
why fulop turn the blind eye?

Wha?

Is the Mayor supposed to personally inspect every building in JC, to make sure it's up to code?


in the past 12 months, perhaps only 2-3 single family houses affected by fires were actually single family. the rest were slums.

Which fires?

What qualifies as a "slum" to you?


Quote:
jj never did a follow up to their own stories.

How much of a follow-up does there need to be on a fire?


Quote:
yes, fulop knows it. no, he not suppose to personally inspect every building. however, he personally ordered fire dept brass under previous chief NOT to investigate reported slums.

That's a pretty serious allegation. What's that based on?

Posted on: 4/24 17:02
Top


Re: another fulop protected slum burns down
#19
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Quote:

earthling wrote:

why policemen and firefighters have to risk their lives while greedy aida converts single family to slum, and scoops the profits?

Because... he's greedy? Not sure what more there is to say.


Quote:
why jersey journal self censors and never follows up to investigate such racket?

Huh?


Quote:
why fulop turn the blind eye?

Wha?

Is the Mayor supposed to personally inspect every building in JC, to make sure it's up to code?

Posted on: 4/24 16:43
Top


Re: Man Fatally Struck by Light Rail in JC
#20
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Our politicians decided commerce not safety took priortiy.

Since the system appears to be very safe, I'd say they wound up making the right choice.

And again! This accident happened in a section that was not going to be elevated to begin with, since it was in an area where there are no streets, and pedestrians are not supposed to have access.

And again, I dare you to find a transit system that is 100% safe.

Posted on: 4/24 11:59
Top


Re: Man Fatally Struck by Light Rail in JC
#21
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
This could have been avoided, when the lite rail route was being planned

There is absolutely no way to design a usable mass transit facility with zero chance of accidents. It cannot be done.

If you put the stations above ground, eventually some idiot is going to fall off the platforms, or into the tracks.

And as noted, the costs would have been tremendous. Saying "oh it was 20 years ago" is nonsense on numerous fronts; it wasn't cheap then, and they've expanded it over the years.

Seriously. You'd have to elevate what, 34 miles of tracks and the stations? You do understand that means handicap access at each station? That this delays access? Were we supposed to elevate the stations at the Hoboken Terminal?

And no, there hasn't been a huge rate of accidents on the HBLR. They had what, one auto accident last year?

By the way, the man was apparently on tracks that are not connected to roads. At the moment, it sounds like NJT is correct that he was trespassing. Or do you think they should have elevated a section of the route that has no cars, and where pedestrians have no reason to walk through?

Resized Image

Posted on: 4/23 19:52
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Re: h1b racket in jersey city about to crash
#22
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Quote:

earthling wrote:
Quote:

sullyx wrote:
Quote:

earthling wrote:
i thought it will be news today, but terrence chose to be a prop at hcdo photo op on city hall steps yesterday instead.

president trump signed eo yesterday targeting h1b racket, including all 400+ in jersey city.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-o ... merican-and-hire-american

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Jersey-City-NJ-2017WC.htm

slumlords and fulop not happy.



you do realize Terrence works for a LOCAL publication covering LOCAL issues, right? maybe he'll get around to covering the issue AFTER it's had an impact on Hudson County and Jersey City businesses.


say what? 12 000+ taking our jobs in our city is not an existingproblem?

Nope.

They are not "TAKIN ER JERBS." They are legal visa holders who work, consume and most likely live in JC. They are our co-workers and neighbors.

Spare us the nativism, kthx.


Quote:
slums in our city created by overcrowding by h1b holders not a problem too?

Did you not read your own source? The average wage offer for those jobs is over $80k. Sure, rent in JC is expensive, but those visa holders are not living in "slums."

Meanwhile, what does the EO actually do? Not much. It is going to... generate reports on H1B visa holders. And suggest reforms!!!

It didn't demand an investigation of all H1B visas issued. They aren't going to drag every H1B visa holder to the nearest ICE office and grill them. They aren't revoking visas. It doesn't even reduce the number of H1B visas that will be made available; Congress sets the amount.

At worst, they will just add another layer of paperwork to the H1B program.

More noise, no substance....

Posted on: 4/20 21:51
Top


Re: Dixon Leasing Cheating JC out of Taxes with the help of Rebecca Sysmes
#23
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Quote:

rcjcinsider wrote:
The scam is that 2 years ago, when the city tried to get the taxpayer's share for added assessment due to renovations, Dixon threatened the city with a $300K lawsuit and the assessments never happened. The scam outlined below is what the insiders came up with to protect Dixon going forward.

My job will be to expose the secret deals everyone has been making with the City and their cronies. One day at a time.

I work for the City and I am sick and tired of the BS that passes along one administration to the next

So, a bunch of allegations without proof. Happy Easter, everyone!

By the way, $300k doesn't sound like a big threat to me. Nor does it sound like those properties have any sort of immunity from the upcoming reval.

Posted on: 4/16 14:31
Top


Re: St. Anthony's High School is Closing
#24
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Quote:

Mao wrote:
The hierarchy hates schools because they take work and require faith. The charter school industry is like heroine to pastors. He closes the school which had been creating a deficit for the parish of say 500,000 yearly. THen he rents it out to a local charter- call the Masonic Ethical Charter School whose values are diametrically opposed to Christianity. What does the pastor care? He now gets $40k per month in rent- income greater than his old deficit. He can pop the Veuve Cliqoue because now he does not even need to curry favor with those pesky parishioners who want to worship God. The pastor can now take even more vacations and ply his boyfriends/victims with bigger gifts.
When the Son of Man returns will there be any faith left on earth?

Would you like some vermouth with your bitters?

I'm pretty sure the RCC would prefer to keep schools open and the pews full.

I don't see any signs that schools like the French Academy are a grand violation of Catholic principles.

Posted on: 4/6 16:37
Top


Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
#25
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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Just a point of clarification on this: The Warren Street ferry is $5.50/trip if you buy a pack of 10, and I think the monthly fare is $220 - so if you rode it more than 20 days/month the cost would be lower than that. At that pricing, it's not a bad deal to get out of the PATH nightmare.

Monthly for Paulus Hook to 39th is $275. WTC is $230.

That's still double the cost of the PATH. And again, it's convenient -- if you live in Paulus Hook, and work in the Financial District. If you live in The Village and work in midtown? Not so much.

Posted on: 4/6 13:39
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
#26
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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Please, spare us the hysterics.

Here's what that PA spokesman was reported to say at that 2015 Hoboken meeting: “According to Coleman, the severity of the overcrowding at the Journal Square PATH station in particular was such that it had become a potential public safety problem...,”

Uh huh

That was in 2015, when he was defending a change to the schedule, which allocated fewer rush hour trains from the HOB-33rd line, to the JSQ-33rd line. (The trains went from every 6 minutes to every 7 minutes in Hoboken, so of course Hobokenites freaked out.) Oddly enough, we haven't heard about "dangerous" conditions at JSQ since then, despite ridership increasing.

Meanwhile, the new signals are in progress, and will be coming on line.


Quote:
And here's what the PA Chairman, John Degnan, himself says (from the WSJ June 5th, 2016): “Port Authority Chairman John Degnan said Jersey City shouldn’t approve new developments along the PATH’s route without making sure the system can handle the expected growth in riders. 'It’s irresponsible for a city to allow indiscriminate growth that’s going to tax public infrastructure beyond its capability,' Mr. Degnan said.”

Uh huh

Fulop is suing the PA for $200 million. It's not that surprising that they are slagging each other, pointing fingers and so forth.

Meanwhile, we all know Fulop shoots his mouth off, and attacks his political enemies in public; and Degnan is the guy who wanted to stop PATH service between 1AM and 5AM, ostensibly to cut costs. By the way, PATH loses money, PA hates it, most of Trenton hates it, did I mention?


Quote:
Serious injuries resulting from over-crowding on narrow PATH station platforms are foreseeable and avoidable.

Oh?

It is extraordinarily unlikely that the PATH system is the single most crowded commuter train system in the US, let alone the world. So let's see some actual statistics where overcrowded platforms resulted in "serious injuries."


Quote:
The kind of problem any reasonably competent transit agency should anticipate and prevent.

How?

Should they cut service between 1AM and 5AM? Save some money, open up a maintenance window? That went over like a lead balloon.

Can the PA single-handedly build a new tunnel? Nope. That will cost billions, will require federal funding, will require new stations, will require NY and NJ govs to sign off -- and since you missed it, NJ's current governor killed the previous attempt (ARC), took some of the PA funds dedicated to the ARC and spent it on other projects (like the Pulaski Skyway), thus burning any ties he had to Congress on infrastructure for years.

Can they increase train frequency by improving the signals? Yup. That's already in progress.

Can the PA command a halt to development in Newark, Harrison, Jersey City and Hoboken? lol

The only thing I've heard that sounds feasible is open gangway cars (preferably with wider entrances). IMO that's a good option, and would increase capacity by perhaps 10%. It will also require time and money to design, prototype, test, build and roll out the new cars. They'd also have to replace a fleet of relatively new cars.

Is there some obvious fix that you know about, that hasn't occurred to anyone else? I hear a lot of complaints and yet another portent of doom, but nothing constructive. So, what should the PA be doing differently?

Posted on: 4/6 13:26
Top


Re: St. Anthony's High School is Closing
#27
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Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
developers will be salivating to get that land between 6 and 8 Street / Marin to Manila ! I've lived next to St A for 13 years, this sucks. Coach H always stopped to chat.

I'd say there is a pretty good chance it will stay as a school.

St Mary on 3rd Street closed as a Catholic school in 2011, and the building is now used by the French American Academy.

Posted on: 4/6 12:47
Top


Re: St. Anthony's High School is Closing
#28
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OK, I know this may shock some people, but:

Yvonne is mostly correct.

Charter (and magnet) schools have made a dent in private school attendance. Including Catholic schools.

However, that's not the biggest issue. The biggest problem is that tuition has escalated substantially over the years, rising much faster than inflation.

Catholic schools also face escalating competition from well-funded private schools, and demographic changes that result in fewer Catholic kids in urban areas.

That said, I concur with the view that this should not in any way, shape or form be a consideration in developing better public schools. No elected official should be dissuaded from setting up good public schools because it might reduce Catholic school attendance. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Posted on: 4/6 12:43
Top


Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
#29
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Quote:

Hamparkvet wrote:
The only solution will be to restore ferry services. The PATH Train is doomed.

Did I miss something? Ferries still run. They cost $8 per ride, because they're privately operated.

You also have to get to them. That's easy for people in Newport and Paulus Hook; difficult for everyone else downtown; effectively worthless for the rest of JC.

Posted on: 4/5 22:43
Top


Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
#30
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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
PA definitely have issues with responsiveness and transparency, and some of the large projects they work on go way over budget.

However, the PA does put out a 10 year capital plan. It includes adding cars ($150m), signal replacement ($278m), Harrison expansion ($142m).... Might be worth reading if you want to know what they're up to.
http://corpinfo.panynj.gov/pages/capital-plan/


Thanks, I see 50 new cars in the capital plan for the next 10 years. They have about 340 cars now, so 50 new cars is slightly under 15% increased capacity.....

FYI, that adds around 47,000 riders per day.

That's roughly equivalent to 940 buses. Per day.

Since not everyone who lives in JC works in NYC, and not everyone absolutely must be on the 8:18 AM train, and since (again) we've been hearing predictions of doom in this thread since 2008, what can I say? I've still got some optimism, certainly for the next 10 years.


Quote:
Where are their projections for service needs based on expected population and employment growth and commuting patterns?

No idea. Not sure how it matters, either -- they're not oblivious to the growth in the area.


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In the near future I expect to see PA police at station entrances during rush hour controlling the number of people entering.

Please, spare us the hysterics. Numerous MTA lines are worse than the PATH, and don't resort to Tokyo-style train pushers.


[QUOTE]As an aside, it was interesting to see the 78 million riders per year number in that PA document. PATH's overall annual deficit is over $400 million. Doing the math, that's about a $5 per ride deficit. Over 10 years, about $4 billion. Roughly the same amount as it cost to build the new WTC station the station Patrick Foye called “a monument to waste”. Think how much bond money $400 million annually buys, and what a properly run Agency could do with that money to improve the system. [/quote]
I... think you're a bit unclear on the concept here.

Here's the 2017 budget
http://corpinfo.panynj.gov/documents/2017-Budget-Book/

PATH ridership increased from around 72m in 2012, to around 80m in 2016, and they expect it to go up 2m this year

For 2017, estimated revenue is $198m
Operating expenses is $398m
Capital budget is $216m

So, that $416m in "subsidies?" That keeps the trains running, and pays for the upgrades you want.

Meanwhile, PATH is the red-headed stepchild of PA. Tolls, airports and rental of facilities make money; PATH loses money. No one wanted it in the first place. It's stunning that PA puts any resources into the PATH system.

Yes, big capital projects are difficult, they take longer than people expect, and they're easy to criticize. PA management also has lots of issues. That said, I'm fairly confident that it is much, much easier to armchair manage a multi-billion dollar multi-state agency that answers pretty much only to two governors, than to actually run the thing.

Posted on: 4/5 22:33
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