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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
#1
Home away from home
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Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Exchange Place is very lightly trafficked, easy to close a dead end street.

There are plans already to revamp Exchange Place.


Quote:
Newark Avenue could have widened the sidewalks, converted to one lane, and put an ordinance on the number of bars in a zoned area. Thus reducing the Beale / Bourbon Street effect.

Yeah, keeping auto traffic works great for keeping drunkards in line in Hoboken oh wait, it does no such thing.


Quote:
Columbus and Grand SHOULD have center barriers for safety reasons, it's a no brainer, yet, radio silence.

Oh? How many accidents have happened there, which necessitates that specific approach?


Quote:
After 9 PM, this Newark Restaurant Row turns into a nightmare for residents who have lived in the general proximity for years. How about we close your block and open up bars?

Again, spend a few minutes in Hoboken on a weekend evening. Talk about a nightmare for residents.

And if you don't like it, then move. No one offered your buddies a guarantee that they could live above a busy urban street in peace and quiet until the end of time.


Quote:
Proposal to close MLK and Central, just the same as prior to closing Newark Avenue, prop up and create new eating and drinking establishments / businesses and make it a car free zone.

Wow, you obviously spent a lot of time on that idea. Very persuasive.


Quote:
More parks = better quality of life.

What does that have to do with the Newark Avenue pedestrian plaza?


Quote:
I am not against the idea, but it needs to be smarter, with a plan and purpose and zoned better. From what I see, Newark Avenue has been closed for 2 years....still has crumbling sidewalks, cheesy planters, a street painted green. Wow. Fabulous.

Bitch, moan... Yawn

The Newark Avenue pedestrian plaza is pretty much on par with what you see in other cities. E.g. Pedestrian blocks in Europe don't have lawns and gardens, they're just streets blocked off to auto traffic. Many don't even have planters.

Posted on: 5/25 18:16
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#2
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
The softness is not attributed to the reval, but to the new construction. And getting hustled by agents means nothing. The biggest challenge to agents in any market is getting the listing. Get a $1m listing and that's a $25-60k payday if you price it properly.

We've been hearing people proclaim that Factor X will kill DTJC RE property values for years now. It's a bit old. Not to mention that we are specifically discussing the effects of the reval.

Yes, I know that getting calls from RE agents means nothing. So does one RE agent saying "single family homes are soft," or one single listing. That's why I'm saying you have to look at actual data, which a) shows no major drop in prices yet and b) shows that in the long term, prices are likely to hold or increase.

Posted on: 5/24 11:18
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#3
Home away from home
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Guess what? Property values in DTJC haven't dropped yet. They might not drop at all. As pointed out so many times, supply in DTJC is extremely tight, and demand is very high. Don't hold your breath expecting a huge property tax break in any follow-up revals.

Funny, I was just chatting with a realtor who was saying the single family market is very soft right now. I have a Zillow alert that updates me about listings in the neighborhood, and I watch them post high, then drop. A neighbor's asking dropped from $1.3m FSBO to $1m by a broker.

That's funny, because I keep getting realtors pestering me, asking if I want to sell my DT condo. Dueling anecdotes!

That's why we cannot rely on anecdotes, and have to look at actual data. So far, it shows an increase in inventory, and no change in prices. Long-term data from Hoboken after its reval shows very strong market values, too. (See https://jerseydigs.com/hudson-county-r ... ate-market-report-1q2018/ as linked earlier by user1111).


Posted on: 5/24 11:01
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#4
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Quote:

thor800 wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

thor800 wrote:
The timing couldn't have been worse - most properties were reassessed at the height of the market


This argument shows a lack of understanding about the revaluation and property taxes. Whether it had been at the height of the market, or bottom, it doesn't matter. If the market had been lower, then the property tax rate would have been higher.

The city needed collect X amount of money.

X = (total value of market) * (tax rate)

If (total value of market) is lower, then (tax rate) has to go up, as X is constant in a revaluation.

The only thing that would make a difference is how different areas stack or compare against each other. The almost four year delay in the reval actually helped DTJC, as that period saw an accelerated increase in valuation in areas outside of DTJC, which translated into properties outside of DTJC getting relative higher levies than they would have 5 years ago.

In any case, the timing matters little. The reval was overdue, and DTJC was in for a HUGE increase regardless of when the reval had been completed. Those who claim the timing was terrible because it is a high market don't understand the issue clearly.



No I completely understand the market - DTJC assessed at the highest values ever with no regard for corresponding drop in market value after taxes double and no guidance moving forward.

Guess what? Property values in DTJC haven't dropped yet. They might not drop at all. As pointed out so many times, supply in DTJC is extremely tight, and demand is very high. Don't hold your breath expecting a huge property tax break in any follow-up revals.

Posted on: 5/23 21:13
Top


Re: Never Forget KAYTN RALLY is A GO
#5
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Home away from home


Erm... They aren't removing it, they're just moving it a few blocks. Deal was struck a day or two ago.

http://nj1015.com/jersey-city-reaches ... moving-massacre-memorial/

Posted on: 5/13 20:44
Top


Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
#6
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Home away from home


If anyone is curious:

Prato on Erie Street is now closed. I assume they are moving everything over to the new shop, no idea how long it will take for the new location to open.

According to a sign on the outside of the Erie Street location, another bakery / coffee shop is moving in.

Posted on: 5/13 14:55
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#7
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??

Or, it just doesn't make sense.

The reval is done. Property tax changes are already getting rolled out. They won't roll everything back because of issues with vacant lots.


You seem to miss the point: lots of improved lots are seeing wildly different valuations, even when located immediately next to each other or within the same block. The point that some are making, including myself, is that assigning completely different values to the built upon lots opens the door for a legal challenge that could potentially delay, or stop, implementation of the reval results.

It's too late to stop the reval. It's over.

Also, think about what you're proposing:

1) The city loses in court and has to do the reval.
2) They pay a company to do the reval
3) They secretly order Appraisal Systems to use a formula that is completely screwy with land values, but the final values generally get within 15% of comp values for developed properties
4) They hope that enough people notice the issue with vacant land that they sue the city not to adjust those vacant properties, but to force another reval (even though Appraisal Systems could just rerun the numbers with a new set of formulas)
5) This happens months after the city has already published a lot of new valuations AND taken the heat from downtown residents AND seen property values in other parts of JC go up when taxes there go down AND discussed doing a follow-up reval in ~2 years.

Ever heard of Ockham's Razor? ;)


Quote:
How can the valuation company, or the city, justify that which defies logic or reason? That is, how can two lots (of similar size) in the same vicinity have totally different values?

I have no clue whatsoever. You'd have to ask Appraisal Systems. (201) 493-8530.

Posted on: 5/13 14:53
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#8
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??

Or, it just doesn't make sense.

The reval is done. Property tax changes are already getting rolled out. They won't roll everything back because of issues with vacant lots.

Posted on: 5/13 10:04
Top


Re: NJ Tax Law change today
#9
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Quote:

Adonis wrote:
Seems like Federal tax law is simply becoming compliant with NJ tax law.

Hypocrisy indeed.



The federal tax change reduces the credit for ALL state and local taxes, and it's slashed it from an unlimited amount (non-AMT) to $10,000. They also reduced the tax benefits of mortgages.

NJ has had the same homeowner tax credit for years, not to mention that state taxes are significantly lower than federal. Oh, and Trenton didn't suddenly cut it in a way that targets Republican-leaning counties.

Posted on: 5/7 6:59
Top


Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
#10
Home away from home
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On a more positive note...

I support a modest expansion to the pedestrian area. In particular, the intersection of Bay and Newark seems hazardous to me, though I don't know if that is actually the case.

I can see the utility of blocking off Barrow, but I'm not sure how that will be as a pedestrian experience. It's not exactly the most lively block.

Posted on: 4/27 12:41
Top


Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
#11
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Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Quote:

I_heart_JC wrote:
Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Nice post El. I might point out that some of the forces like HPNA back then were actively hostile to local commerce, doing whatever they could to push out the little storefront businesses. So many storefronts were converted to condos!


Indeed, this is Yvonne and the NA's real legacy. They drove out local businesses that served many to preserve parking for few wealthy homeowners in the area. The sad thing is, now that those spaces have been turned to condos, we can never have that level of local retail in the residential neighborhoods again.

You can see that they haven't changed at all. Look at all the HCNA members that came here to gloat when they successfully forced Prato out of their space. We'll never have the version of Jersey City El and I feel most people want as long as these corrupt groups are allowed to have unchecked influence.


except....Prato is still in their space, happily doing business.


Except...they very clearly state on their website that they will be closing that location and moving to 374 4th st in the village. Presumably the space will transform into a real estate office, nail salon or daycare.

Try again.

Prato had a few issues when it opened, which are discussed in a thread here. They tried to use a backyard for seating, and tried to operate as a restaurant, both zoning violations; a neighbor complained, and Prato sorted things out. HCNA was not involved.

Someone (I don't recall if it was Prato or the owner or both) tried to rezone from cafe to restaurant, which would allow alcohol and later hours, a bad fit for a quiet residential neighborhood. The change was denied, but Prato did get indoor seating.

That was 2 years ago. No problems and (from what I can tell) good business since then. HCNA's Facebook page has no discussions at all of Prato since then.

No public parking spaces anywhere near there were removed since Prato opened.

The "gloating" is in your imagination. There was one poster (squeeg) who blamed the landlord for the conflicts, not Prato, and was glad the community (not the Association) blocked the restaurant rezoning.

It's not clear why they are moving. Their site doesn't even say "moving," just that they are opening a new space on 4th, so who knows? Whatever the reason, they certainly weren't driven out by the HCNA.

Posted on: 4/27 12:22
Top


Re: Legal Weed Is Coming to New Jersey
#12
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Quote:

135jc wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:
Since marijuana does not send users into homicidal rages, nor does it encourage users to steal rampantly to pay for it, it makes no sense to claim that Colorado's homicide rate increased slightly because marijuana was legalized.


Did u bother to read the article?

Yes. Did you?

The CBI and and Denver PD offer no theories. One police officer mistakenly says it's due to economic conditions (patently false, as crime rates did not soar in 2007-2009). One lawmaker who tries to pin it on pot also acknowledges a surge in opiate use.

Spare us the FUD, kthx.

Posted on: 4/15 11:05
Top


Re: Legal Weed Is Coming to New Jersey
#13
Home away from home
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Quote:
Since marijuana does not send users into homicidal rages, nor does it encourage users to steal rampantly to pay for it, it makes no sense to claim that Colorado's homicide rate increased slightly because marijuana was legalized.

Posted on: 4/14 11:15
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#14
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
The shoe has not dropped, when we get our new bills, there will be a note stating all taxes must be paid ... with a November date. Those who do not have a mortgage but limited income will not be able to pay and many homes will go into lien. Before the reval, normally 2,000 homes are in lien.

1) News flash! Lots of people are seeing reductions in their taxes. Anyone whose mortgage is paid off, is on a limited income, and gets a tax cut, will find their financial position improved.

It's a bit disgusting that you repeatedly ignore the people who benefit.

2) It's April. Taxes are due in November. As noted above, if your taxes went up, that's because the value of your home went up as well. Anyone who can't figure out how to tap the equity of their home in the next six months isn't trying.

Posted on: 4/8 14:10
Top


Re: Politicians Want to Start a Bank. What Could Go Wrong?
#15
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Yeah, it's not like commercial banks have illegally foisted credit cards on their customers, or forced ratings agencies to give crappy products a thumbs up, or manipulated international lending rates, or sold off real estate and other derivatives that they knew were total crap, or turned the international finance market into a casino that nearly threw the entire planet into a major depression, or...

Oh, wait. A government-run bank doesn't sound so bad after all.

Posted on: 3/31 16:16
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#16
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Quote:

LoraJ wrote:
My mortgage company pays my taxes. Will they be the ones to get the new tax amount from the city?

What should happen is this:

- The company that services your mortgage collects money from you every month. This goes into an escrow account, which is used to pay your quarterly property tax bill.

- The company that services your mortgage should know about the increase in taxes, and pay them in full.

- You'll wind up owing the escrow account the balance between what you've put in, and what was paid out.

- Once a year, the mortgage servicer should review your property taxes and escrow balance, and figure out how much you owe them (or how much extra is in there). They'll recalculate the amount on that basis.

You can also call them, to find out when they're doing the adjustment, and/or make sure they follow the above process (or something similar).

Posted on: 3/28 9:49
Top


Re: New Jersey Prepares To Raise Taxes On "Almost Everything" As It Nears Financial Disaster
#17
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Sales tax-regressive.

True... but it's also ignorable. No one noticed the sales tax cut.


Quote:
Airbnbb tax-bad for homeowners.

lol

AirBnB is currently exempt from sales taxes, for no reason I can think of. That means the price will jump a whopping 7% OH NOOOOO!!!

They'll be fine.


Quote:
Pot tax won't happen anytime soon.

Legal weed is going to happen. Heck, if NJ legalizes weed before NY, I'd say $60m in tax revenue is a low estimate....


Quote:
Vape tax-way to hurt those trying to kick nicotine.

Vaping doesn't do anything to help kick nicotine. Not only does it deliver the drug to those trying to quit smoking, it's enticing young people to start vaping. The health effects are unknown, but already do not look good.


Quote:
Millionaire tax-not sure that will fly. Carried interest/hedge tax reform-ok with that.

I concur, I expect any millionaires' tax will be much smaller.


Quote:
with all these giant tax additions not a single penny will go to pensions beyond what Gov Christie had planned!

Riiiiiiight

He currently allots $3.2 billion for the pension funds, the largest payment ever. It's not where it ought to be, but it's 60% of actuarial recommendations -- and that's higher than in the past.

In contrast, Christie paid $2.5 billion in his final year. Saying "Christie planned to pay $3.5 billion... after he was out of office!" is a stunningly cynical ploy to give Christie credit for passing the buck to his successor.


Quote:
Many of his numbers don't add up...

Try again. The math is fine.

The reality is that Murphy is dealing with the hangover of several administrations, Democratic and Republican alike, that failed to address key issues like pensions. There is no way to know right now if Murphy's proposals will pass, let alone work. However, at least he recognizes that the only alternative to kicking the can (yet again) is to raise taxes.

Posted on: 3/14 9:25
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#18
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Quote:

jctexan wrote:
Ha! Yes! But I was referring to the downtown crowd who think residents of Greenville and BeLa who were overpaying should have appealed. My point was that those who were overpaying would not have been able to successfully appeal based on downtown underpaying. Right?

Correct. They make it pretty clear that your best evidence is comps.

There's also this whole land/improvement split that I don't get.

If you're curious, the county guide to appeals is here:
https://secure.njappealonline.com/prod ... _InstructionsHandbook.pdf

Posted on: 3/8 22:22
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#19
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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
That's like saying the city should remove every single traffic light, and make it the responsibility of individual drivers to know when to safely proceed at intersections.

Oh please, spare us the ridiculous nonsense. Obviously, not appealing property taxes is absolutely 100% nothing like removing every single traffic light.

sigh

You missed the point.

Since you appear to have problems with analogies, let me help you through this: The municipality has caused a problem by failing to uphold its legal responsibilities (removed traffic lights). You are throwing responsibility for fixing the situation on the citizens (crossing without lights). That won't work, because there is still a systemic problem (no lights) that individuals do not have the ability to fix.


Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
It is not the responsibility of tens of thousands of JC residents to fix a systemic refusal by the city to uphold its legal responsibilities.

No dispute about that. But it is up to an individual to appeal their taxes if they are unjust or unfair because they are too high. [/quote]
No dispute, but you dispute it. That's a neat trick.


Quote:
That’s why there’s an appeal system and that’s how it works. An individual brings an appeal – get it…?

sigh

No, the purpose of the appeal system is to address what are supposed to be rare instances that the city's assessment is off by more than 15%. It is NOT supposed to fix a city-wide failure to obey state law. It also can't fix the cases where the assessment is too low.

Another issue is that tens of thousands of the people affected by this were not in a position to fix it. For example, let's say a landlord is paying more than she should in property taxes. Will she appeal? In fact, she has no reason to do so. Not only is the tax a deduction, she will merely pass on the costs to the renters. In a city where over 70% of properties are rentals, I'm sure that happened in lots of cases.


Quote:

Can’t disagree that Jersey City was wilfully negligent in neglecting to conduct revals for the past 30 or so years. Nevertheless an individual could have fixed their own problem all during that time with an appeal. It’s no secret and many people did appeal successfully. Stop crying now if you didn’t. I feel sorry for you, but you alone are responsible if you didn’t appeal.

<< rolleyes >>

I was undertaxed. Not overtaxed. My taxes are going up, and you don't hear me bitching about it. (Or appealing, the city's numbers are definitely with the 15% margin of error.)

I'm calling this out because of....
• The unfairness of the system
• How the municipality caused that unfairness
• How thousands of poor JC residents (probably mostly renters) got screwed by this
• The foolish claim that citizens can or should fix it themselves


Quote:
Steve Fulop was willfully and wantonly negligent when he stopped the reval after becoming mayor.

So... Fulop was deliberately negligent, but people are responsible for their own failure to appeal? Another neat trick.


Quote:
Oh, by the way, I think you’ll find that the road rules hold you responsible for safely proceeding at any time you’re driving on public roads – whether or not a traffic control signal is installed.

...yes, that's why it is an apt analogy. Even though it is the responsibility of the individual to act safely, the roads will not be safe when the city fails to do its part, and engineers in a city-wide structural failure. And throwing it back on the individual drivers doesn't work.

Posted on: 3/8 20:50
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#20
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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
You are 100% correct! People who believe their property taxes are unfair should appeal.

That's like saying the city should remove every single traffic light, and make it the responsibility of individual drivers to know when to safely proceed at intersections.

It is not the responsibility of tens of thousands of JC residents to fix a systemic refusal by the city to uphold its legal responsibilities.

Appealing one's property taxes is not the most difficult thing in the world. However, tens of thousands of property owners have no idea how it works, or that it's a viable option at all.

Individual appeals also does not fix the situation where tens of thousands of property owners, whose properties have increased in value and are underassessed, are underpaying their taxes.

Unfair imbalances in property tax assessments is not the fault of individuals who are issued incorrect assessments. This is the responsibility of the politicians who are refusing to uphold their legal responsibilities, along with the citizens who encourage them.

Posted on: 3/7 9:41
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#21
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Quote:

jctexan wrote:
As for appealing, my understanding is that one can not use someone underpaying as the basis for a reduction, so what would the argument be for their appeal? Please don’t knee jerk respond. Really think it through with numbers.

This is my understanding. Hopefully, I won't get anything wildly wrong. ;)

Appeals are based on the claim that the city's assessment is too high. You have to prove them wrong, usually by providing 3-5 recent comparable sales. Alternately you can provide an appraisal, but in that case the appraiser must be available to testify. You only get an adjustment if the city's assessment is off by more than 15%.

My impression is that usually, if you're out of that 15% range, you'll get something. You can file yourself, it isn't terribly expensive or time-consuming. I have no idea if using an attorney increases your chances of success, or what happens if you appeal year after year.

You can't refer to the taxes other people are paying as part of the appeal process. All they care about are comps and/or an appraisal.

So: Let's say you bought your home in 2000, and your old tax bill was $10k. The city assesses your property in 2017 at $2,000,000 which means your new tax bill is around $32k. Ouch.

In order to successfully appeal, you must believe that either the city's 2017 assessment had to be off by more than 15%, or the value of your property immediately dropped more than 15%, or some combo thereof. Then, you have to be able to prove it with comparable sales.

Let's say that by fall 2018, the market crashes by 25%. You pull together comps that show the value at $1,500,000 and you get a full adjustment. Your new tax bill is $24k.

Is that numbery enough for you? ;)

Posted on: 3/7 9:34
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#22
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Quote:

135jc wrote:
If you are refering to me "bitching about the tax increase" please show me where I did.

sigh

Show me where I accused you personally of complaining about the tax increase.

If you are not in that elite group, then the worst thing I did to you was correct your claims about the effects of low property taxes on JC RE values.

Posted on: 3/6 20:02
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#23
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Quote:

135jc wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
The point is that low taxes drove up the market values. High taxes will lower the values and now there will be a flood of appeals unless another reveal happens

Low taxes was only one part of what has driven up property values in DTJC. Other factors include... etc


I don't understand all the hostility towards dtjc residents. If the tax incentive was that great you all should have bought in dtjc. And by the way someone who bought their condo in 2008 did not receive your massive tax break for decades.

I *did* buy in DTJC. (With no idea about the reval nonsense.)

I *did* get a tax break as a result.

Someone who bought a condo in 2008 *did* get nearly a decade of tax breaks.

I *did* get a higher tax bill. Instead of whining about it like an entitled little bitch, I recognized that the update is generally fair.

I don't have hostility towards "DTJC residents." I am morally outraged by the people who think they are entitled to a tax break at someone else's expense, did nothing to deserve said tax break, and are willing to grab onto any rationalization they can to excuse their selfishness and a deeply unfair system.

I also find all the hand-wringing to be slightly amusing. Property values in JC have survived 9/11; the bursting of an epic international real estate and financial bubble; Hurricane Sandy; increased ridership on the PATH; and parts of Newark Avenue turning into a pedestrian plaza. I'm reasonably confident property values will survive the reval.

Posted on: 3/6 19:29
Top


Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#24
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Quote:

Bamb00zle wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:

The issue here is, you have three decades where some residents were screwed. They were paying a tax rate double that of those living with much better means. The poor were subsidizing the wealthy. A reval one year later would mean that the poorer areas only receive one year relief to earn back the money they lost over those decades.


During the entire time since the 1998 reval anybody who believed their property taxes were “unfair” had the right to appeal.

It should not be the responsibility of individual citizens to fix an abject failure of by the city to uphold its legal responsibilities to keep property taxes accurate.

It's also my understanding that tax appeals are limited in how much they can adjust your tax amount.


Quote:
As a result of the City’s willful negligence not conducting a reval, DT property values have been inflated by low assessments over the past 30 years. Now, post reval, there’s little doubt DT values will fall, especially with the cap on SALT deductions. Another revaluation will mitigate the damage caused.

Please.

If someone's tax bill went from $10k to $30k, that's because they are living in a $2 million home. The reval and Trump tax fiasco is not going to shrink the value of that home to $675k.

Plus, those people have underpaid their tax burden for years, if not decades (another issue that can't be fixed by people appealing their tax bill). They have done jack **** to deserve a break. (I might add, my tax bill is going up, and I'm not bitching about it.)

Also, see above post for a half dozen other reasons why JC property values have gone up over the decades.


Quote:
The blame for all this mess belongs with Jersey City politicians and administration employees, who knew all along what was going on and did NOTHING for 30 years. They should be held accountable.

Yeah, I don't think so. They held off the reval, because that's what a bloc of citizens demanded. This happens all over NJ, too.

Posted on: 3/6 19:13
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#25
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

135jc wrote:
The point is that low taxes drove up the market values. High taxes will lower the values and now there will be a flood of appeals unless another reveal happens

Low taxes was only one part of what has driven up property values in DTJC. Other factors include, but are not limited to:

• Intense real estate pressures in the NYC area (including the insanity of buying in Manhattan, which is dominated by co-ops)
• Close proximity to Manhattan, especially the Financial District and much of Midtown
• Low inventory in DTJC (75% is rental)
• Housing stock that's either decent or worth fixing up
• Record low interest rates
• Between ~1995 and 2006, a massive bubble in national real estate values
• Lots of other nearby areas which didn't have such tax imbalances also increased in value

Also, keep in mind that DTJC has been in the process of gentrification for decades -- as in, long before property taxes got out of whack.

Another thing to keep in mind? Hoboken did a reval a few years ago, and it was not Real Estate Armageddon. What a shock.

What is likely to happen is that RE values will drop for a few months, then come right back up. At the bare minimum, the people who own those $1 million homes? Another adjustment isn't going to reduce their taxes back to $10k/yr.

Sorry, Charlie. You got a massive tax break for decades, now pay yer taxes.

Posted on: 3/6 18:57
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#26
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

135jc wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
[quote]
lecxe wrote:

Your tax bill went up? Well cry me a river. Life ain't fare. No one cares.


Yes, except the reval is actually the epitome of fairness. They're upset that everything is fair now lol. [/quot

It's fair until values fall. Jeez. How hard is that to grasp?

Yeah, thing is? Property taxes have to actually fall first.

I mean, really. Tell us all, how much will home values actually drop over the next 6 months? What happens if they rise up again 6 months later?

The reality is that many of the people who have gotten away with insanely and unfairly low property tax rates don't want to pay higher taxes. It doesn't matter who else has to pay more to give them a tax break. It doesn't matter how much the value of their property went up.

It's just selfishness masquerading as righteousness.

Posted on: 3/6 13:39
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#27
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Tbird, you missed where I asked 'can we assume?'

His identity is not top secret information. It took all of 30 seconds to look it up.

So, I'd say that if you were genuinely interested, you shouldn't have assumed.

Posted on: 3/6 13:17
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#28
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Florio, Kenney and Raval-can we assume 'Florio' is Jim 'fillm flam' Florio, who is also a partner behind the group developing Canal Crossing in Greenville/BeLa?

We should not.

Apparently it's a man by the name of Edward J Florio.
http://www.fkrlaw.com/edward-j-florio/

I don't know who the guy is, or if he's related to any other Florios in NJ, but he has no apparent connection to Canal Crossing. From what I can tell, he's just an attorney.

Posted on: 3/6 10:24
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#29
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
The point is the entire city would be better off, including those with reduced assessments, if the state made a one time exception and had a stepup/phase in assessment. If so, the current reval would never have taken as long as it did to finally occur. The incentives to do so were not right under the current law.

And I've already pointed out how that will not happen, and doesn't make any sense. To present it more clearly than before, and add to it:

• Your proposal is almost certainly illegal under current law

• The state legislators would be fools to vote for it, since it will reward this form of negligence, and give other municipalities an incentive to keep delaying revals

• Jersey City doesn't deserve special treatment, since its chief role here is to delay and obstruct and sue and refuse to follow the law, to the bitter end

• Anyone with half a brain will see this as a transparent attempt to add yet another delay to the reval

• This is a problem that JC caused for itself, by going 3 decades without adjusting its taxes, and it's not Trenton's job to fix it

• It is utterly false that the "entire city" will benefit, as the tens of thousands of property owners who are scheduled for a tax cut will need to pay more taxes

• The people who are facing a tax hike had years to prepare, it's not like this was a secret

• The people who are facing a tax hike did nothing whatsoever to earn or deserve any special treatment whatsoever -- in fact, they've benefitted for years (if not decades) by paying less than their fair share

In short: Your "phase in" proposal is deeply unfair; it incentivizes municipal negligence; and it's not going to happen anyway. Pass.

Posted on: 2/15 10:47
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
#30
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
"overpaying" is a prejorative by someone else other than the homeowner affected.

No one "overpays" - folks willing pay the tax or appeal it at their *free will*.....

Or, I just mean "overpay." No matter how it happened, thousands of property owners will be getting tax rate reductions. That's not hyperbole; out of the 9200 entries in the current list, nearly 2500 are getting reductions. And this is just a small part of the total.

Were they all supposed to appeal? Would that have magically fixed all the problems? Would it have increased the property taxes for those who weren't paying enough? What about those for whom their assessed value was below market, how does the appeal process work for those individuals?


Quote:
When someone's taxes goes up 4xs overnight - it will be mostly the latter. That is a tax shock....

Yes, I know what you meant.

You're still suggesting that the city tax people at the wrong rates for an extended period of time. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that is wildly illegal. I'm gonna go even further out and say that I cannot imagine NJ state legislature would do anything to help JC with this ridiculous plan, since JC deliberately and repeatedly delayed the reval by an unconscionable amount of time, and had to get dragged into court to just abide by existing law.

Even if it could somehow be done, the city will be telling tends of thousands of property owners that they have to wait for their taxes to drop, because other people -- whose property values exploded over the past decades -- don't want to pay all of their taxes.

You're also spreading this out into a smaller series of "shocks" -- e.g. if done in two years, then that owner will see their property taxes double in the first year, and double again. Congratulations! You've spread out the property tax increase, and property value hit, over two years.

And why should we have sympathy for these people again? They did nothing to deserve a massive tax break. Their taxes are going up because the value of their homes has soared. They're getting socked because the city refused to reval for thirty years -- and that wasn't a hidden fact.

In fact, in the same way that you believe the overpayers were suckers who should have appealed and "freely" chose to pay extra, the people getting socked now knew this was coming for years, and have no excuse to plead ignorance.

Posted on: 2/14 23:16
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