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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Yvonne wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
New Jersey's effective property tax rate is around 2.26%.

JC's effective rate is around 1.6%.

So yes, even after the reval bumps up some people's property tax rate (and lowers others), JC's property tax rate is lower than most of NJ.



So I guess the people downtown who are going from $14,000 to $40,000 should find comfort that they are paying low taxes?


Mark my words, those taxes will see another substantial increase within the next 5 years (10, at the latest) once the state tweaks the school funding formulas and JC is asked/forced to shoulder a larger part of the local BOE budget. There is no way we get away with paying ~17% of the local school budget for much longer. Even at a paltry third (33%) we would be underpaying, but taxes would go up 25% for every homeowner based on the doubling of the current ~0.4% school levy.

Posted on: 2018/6/1 0:19
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Yvonne wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
New Jersey's effective property tax rate is around 2.26%.

JC's effective rate is around 1.6%.

So yes, even after the reval bumps up some people's property tax rate (and lowers others), JC's property tax rate is lower than most of NJ.



So I guess the people downtown who are going from $14,000 to $40,000 should find comfort that they are paying low taxes?


Yes, and in the knowledge they've saved tens and tens of thousands of dollars by not paying their fair share while the poor homeowners in Greenville, Society Hill, and other areas have been carrying them.

Posted on: 2018/5/31 23:53
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Dolomiti wrote:
New Jersey's effective property tax rate is around 2.26%.

JC's effective rate is around 1.6%.

So yes, even after the reval bumps up some people's property tax rate (and lowers others), JC's property tax rate is lower than most of NJ.



So I guess the people downtown who are going from $14,000 to $40,000 should find comfort that they are paying low taxes?

Posted on: 2018/5/31 21:27
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New Jersey's effective property tax rate is around 2.26%.

JC's effective rate is around 1.6%.

So yes, even after the reval bumps up some people's property tax rate (and lowers others), JC's property tax rate is lower than most of NJ.

Posted on: 2018/5/31 21:16
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Many people here have stated our school rate is low, they are correct but towns who pay nearly 100% of their school rate have very low municipal rates to pay. Their money goes to schools and county government with a sliver to the municipal government. In JC, more than 50% of our taxes go to municipal government. In order to be equal to those towns that pay more to the school system, then our municipal government needs to to eliminated.

Posted on: 2018/5/31 14:23
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Monroe wrote:
How is it irrelevant? JC's tax rate is so ridiculously low because of Abbott.


Its irrelevant because market values are high due to JC's proximity to NYC. So naturally with high property values comes low tax rates. Just as if the reval was done in 2009 then the rate would have been much higher.


Partly right, partly wrong. Higher real estate values do help keep down the tax rate, but our local tax rate is lower mostly for other reason.

Our school levy is only ~25% of the total tax rate, amounting to about .40%, and that only covers 17% of the local BOE budget. If the current school funding setup is modified, and we are suddenly asked to shoulder a higher percentage of the local BOE budget, we will see our local rate go up quite a bit. If we were asked to shoulder 33% of the local BOE budget, our new property tax rate would be a little over 2%, and if we were asked to cover half of the local school budget the overall tax rate would be a hair short of 2.5%. Our local tax rate is low not because of high property value, but because the local school budget is being paid by someone else.

Posted on: 2018/5/31 5:25
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Monroe wrote:
How is it irrelevant? JC's tax rate is so ridiculously low because of Abbott.


Its irrelevant because market values are high due to JC's proximity to NYC. So naturally with high property values comes low tax rates. Just as if the reval was done in 2009 then the rate would have been much higher.

Posted on: 2018/5/31 0:20
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Monroe wrote:
How is it irrelevant? JC's tax rate is so ridiculously low because of Abbott.


That's a terrible argument, the rate is low because of property value hyperinflation. If you use the school levy per capita argument rather than rate, you can see it's not nearly so drastic.

Posted on: 2018/5/31 0:17
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How is it irrelevant? JC's tax rate is so ridiculously low because of Abbott.

Posted on: 2018/5/31 0:03
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It was definitely long overdue for tax increases though a more liberal policy to appeals for unfair rates could have brought the same relief to Greenville or West Side.

In any case, even $16K on a $1M building is still a bargain compared to almost everywhere else in NJ. Once the market realizes this, things will normalize. I would expect it will take longer for single family homes in the $1M+ range compared to ones with rental units included.


Why use tax rates as the basis for your argument? It is irrelevant!

Posted on: 2018/5/30 23:35
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It was definitely long overdue for tax increases though a more liberal policy to appeals for unfair rates could have brought the same relief to Greenville or West Side.

In any case, even $16K on a $1M building is still a bargain compared to almost everywhere else in NJ. Once the market realizes this, things will normalize. I would expect it will take longer for single family homes in the $1M+ range compared to ones with rental units included.

Posted on: 2018/5/30 20:22
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drifterx wrote:
What would the delay do? So the 'oppressed' downtowner can move to GV? GTFO. Time to face reality.


In practical terms, an additional delay would have achieved nothing more than give DTJC homeowners an opportunity to try and unload properties to which they no longer could, or wished to, afford the property taxes. In other words, all those people in denial about the reval, or who believed that the city administration would do something (anything!) to not let DTJC get slammed with the obvious, expected increase, would have been rewarded for their attitude/stance.

Time to rip the band-aid and deal with the pain once and for all.

Posted on: 2018/5/27 23:37
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What would the delay do? So the 'oppressed' downtowner can move to GV? GTFO. Time to face reality.

Posted on: 2018/5/27 18:57
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Bowing to the wishes of Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop, the state legislature has declined to advance a bill that might have provided some relief to residents facing sharp increases as a result of the revaluation of their property.

Two co-sponsors of the proposed legislation, State Sen. Sandra Cunningham and Assemblyman Raj Mukherji, said on Friday that the legislative committee considering the bill will not release it for the full legislature to vote.

Its third sponsor, State Sen. Brian Stack, was unavailable Friday to discuss the legislation’s reversed course.

Stack appeared before the Journal Square Neighborhood Association on May 21 to explain that the legislation would have delayed the impact of the recent property revaluation in Jersey City, as well as other towns.

“The bill would delay implementation of the division-ordered revaluations until the next calendar year, in order to minimize the adverse effects of implementing the revaluations in two ways,” the legislation explained.

Municipalities that did not apply revaluation results to tax bills before April 1 would have been allowed to postpone implementing the new assessments until Jan. 1, 2019, under this bill. That would have allowed the tax increases associated with the revaluation to be spread over four quarters in 2019, rather than two quarters if implemented in 2018.

Because the Jersey City revaluation is backdated to January 2018, residents with a tax increase will have to pay higher August and November tax bills because they underpaid in February and May.

Read more: Hudson Reporter - Reval delay won t happen Legislature won t vote on Stack and Cunningham bill

Posted on: 2018/5/27 18:15
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jcity wrote:
Apparently the deadline for submitting an appeal is May 1st. At some point I saw a list of recommended attorneys that could assist with this - but now I can't find that.

Does anyone have a list of recommended attorneys to help with the tax appeal process?


I still don't know what my new taxes will be. How can I have appealed something where I don't have the info?



http://www.asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=359

Towards the bottom of this page is a link to a spreadsheet,
Proposed Assessments as of April 18th,

Click on that and open with Excel, Search out your address.

Posted on: 2018/5/25 13:37
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jcity wrote:
Apparently the deadline for submitting an appeal is May 1st. At some point I saw a list of recommended attorneys that could assist with this - but now I can't find that.

Does anyone have a list of recommended attorneys to help with the tax appeal process?


I still don't know what my new taxes will be. How can I have appealed something where I don't have the info?


Posted on: 2018/5/25 1:56
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I saw a listing g for a single famy in dtjc for $w.4 mlion. If that's soft, what is hard

Posted on: 2018/5/24 23:12
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brewster wrote:
The softness is not attributed to the reval, but to the new construction. And getting hustled by agents means nothing. The biggest challenge to agents in any market is getting the listing. Get a $1m listing and that's a $25-60k payday if you price it properly.

We've been hearing people proclaim that Factor X will kill DTJC RE property values for years now. It's a bit old. Not to mention that we are specifically discussing the effects of the reval.

Yes, I know that getting calls from RE agents means nothing. So does one RE agent saying "single family homes are soft," or one single listing. That's why I'm saying you have to look at actual data, which a) shows no major drop in prices yet and b) shows that in the long term, prices are likely to hold or increase.


The reval won't kill downtown, but the absence of any definite guidance going forward (2 year / 5 year / 10 year reassessment) creates uncertainty which isn't good for the RE market in the short term.

Condos are still selling from what I've seen as most were probably converted 10-15 years ago and not dramatically affected by increasing taxes to the same degree as 1-4 family buildings.

Posted on: 2018/5/24 16:40
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brewster wrote:
The softness is not attributed to the reval, but to the new construction. And getting hustled by agents means nothing. The biggest challenge to agents in any market is getting the listing. Get a $1m listing and that's a $25-60k payday if you price it properly.

We've been hearing people proclaim that Factor X will kill DTJC RE property values for years now. It's a bit old. Not to mention that we are specifically discussing the effects of the reval.

Yes, I know that getting calls from RE agents means nothing. So does one RE agent saying "single family homes are soft," or one single listing. That's why I'm saying you have to look at actual data, which a) shows no major drop in prices yet and b) shows that in the long term, prices are likely to hold or increase.

Posted on: 2018/5/24 15:18
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Dolomiti wrote:
That's funny, because I keep getting realtors pestering me, asking if I want to sell my DT condo. Dueling anecdotes!

That's why we cannot rely on anecdotes, and have to look at actual data. So far, it shows an increase in inventory, and no change in prices. Long-term data from Hoboken after its reval shows very strong market values, too.

The softness is not attributed to the reval, but to the new construction. And getting hustled by agents means nothing. The biggest challenge to agents in any market is getting the listing. Get a $1m listing and that's a $25-60k payday if you price it properly.

Posted on: 2018/5/24 15:10
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Dolomiti wrote:
Guess what? Property values in DTJC haven't dropped yet. They might not drop at all. As pointed out so many times, supply in DTJC is extremely tight, and demand is very high. Don't hold your breath expecting a huge property tax break in any follow-up revals.

Funny, I was just chatting with a realtor who was saying the single family market is very soft right now. I have a Zillow alert that updates me about listings in the neighborhood, and I watch them post high, then drop. A neighbor's asking dropped from $1.3m FSBO to $1m by a broker.

That's funny, because I keep getting realtors pestering me, asking if I want to sell my DT condo. Dueling anecdotes!

That's why we cannot rely on anecdotes, and have to look at actual data. So far, it shows an increase in inventory, and no change in prices. Long-term data from Hoboken after its reval shows very strong market values, too. (See https://jerseydigs.com/hudson-county-r ... ate-market-report-1q2018/ as linked earlier by user1111).


Posted on: 2018/5/24 15:01
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Dolomiti wrote:
Guess what? Property values in DTJC haven't dropped yet. They might not drop at all. As pointed out so many times, supply in DTJC is extremely tight, and demand is very high. Don't hold your breath expecting a huge property tax break in any follow-up revals.

Funny, I was just chatting with a realtor who was saying the single family market is very soft right now. I have a Zillow alert that updates me about listings in the neighborhood, and I watch them post high, then drop. A neighbor's asking dropped from $1.3m FSBO to $1m by a broker.

Posted on: 2018/5/24 3:43
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Yes because when the rest of state funds most of JC's education budget, you morons don't realize that the more you cry about your absurdly low tax rate, the more the state is going to look at it and say "heeeeey wait a minute, why are we still paying for their shitty schools?" It can only go up from here so enjoy the relatively free ride while it lasts. The tax rate, under that circumstance, will continue to be discussed as nauseum until you people get it and STFU about your taxes going up from the reval.

Posted on: 2018/5/24 3:17
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The timing couldn't have been worse - most properties were reassessed at the height of the market


This argument shows a lack of understanding about the revaluation and property taxes. Whether it had been at the height of the market, or bottom, it doesn't matter. If the market had been lower, then the property tax rate would have been higher.

The city needed collect X amount of money.

X = (total value of market) * (tax rate)

If (total value of market) is lower, then (tax rate) has to go up, as X is constant in a revaluation.

The only thing that would make a difference is how different areas stack or compare against each other. The almost four year delay in the reval actually helped DTJC, as that period saw an accelerated increase in valuation in areas outside of DTJC, which translated into properties outside of DTJC getting relative higher levies than they would have 5 years ago.

In any case, the timing matters little. The reval was overdue, and DTJC was in for a HUGE increase regardless of when the reval had been completed. Those who claim the timing was terrible because it is a high market don't understand the issue clearly.



No I completely understand the market - DTJC assessed at the highest values ever with no regard for corresponding drop in market value after taxes double and no guidance moving forward.

Yes it was way overdue and definitely not fair for residents in other words to overpay for years, but also not fair to saddle downtown with absurdly high taxes with no clear plan to reassess more regularly in the future.


They're not "absurdly high taxes"; they're exactly the taxes one should pay for a residence in a particular market. Also, at a rate of 1.62% is still one of the lowest tax RATES in the entire state. Try paying 2.3% or whatever the state average is, on these valuations, then I'd say whoa. But again, there are options: reverse mortgages, the senior freeze, etc.


Are you still going to bang the drum on tax rates? It has been discussed at nauseam. They mean nothing! Here it is again. A town with high market values has a low tax rate. A town with depressed values has a high tax rate! Just imagine if the reval was done 8 years ago. The rate would have been over 2%.

Posted on: 2018/5/24 3:02
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bodhipooh wrote:
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thor800 wrote:
The timing couldn't have been worse - most properties were reassessed at the height of the market


This argument shows a lack of understanding about the revaluation and property taxes. Whether it had been at the height of the market, or bottom, it doesn't matter. If the market had been lower, then the property tax rate would have been higher.

The city needed collect X amount of money.

X = (total value of market) * (tax rate)

If (total value of market) is lower, then (tax rate) has to go up, as X is constant in a revaluation.

The only thing that would make a difference is how different areas stack or compare against each other. The almost four year delay in the reval actually helped DTJC, as that period saw an accelerated increase in valuation in areas outside of DTJC, which translated into properties outside of DTJC getting relative higher levies than they would have 5 years ago.

In any case, the timing matters little. The reval was overdue, and DTJC was in for a HUGE increase regardless of when the reval had been completed. Those who claim the timing was terrible because it is a high market don't understand the issue clearly.



No I completely understand the market - DTJC assessed at the highest values ever with no regard for corresponding drop in market value after taxes double and no guidance moving forward.

Guess what? Property values in DTJC haven't dropped yet. They might not drop at all. As pointed out so many times, supply in DTJC is extremely tight, and demand is very high. Don't hold your breath expecting a huge property tax break in any follow-up revals.

Posted on: 2018/5/24 1:13
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Saradove wrote:
Parkman, I'm with you. I have an 82 year old friend who, with his wife, bought a home in 1968, raised their kids & became a beloved neighbor to many. The house never had a major updating, it was their home with no thought to it becoming a goldmine. He doesn't want to sell ... it's his home, his neighborhood. A home is an emotional thing, sentimental, not always a money-maker as some see it. I realize that this doesn't mesh with today's reality but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.


Way to go Sara. That sounds like Jersey City heart you're speaking with; something that seems to be in short supply amongst the money changers on this forum. It's about home not bucks all the time.


Except that feel good sentiments like this don't exist in the real world. Again, and again, and again...every day that poor senior downtown, sitting on a million dollar plus valuation, is delaying their FAIR increase, actual poorer folks are over paying (I'm generalizing - yes, not everyone getting a decrease is poor. It's a relative point). Can you really sit there and tell me that someone who can sell their place today for over a million bucks NET should get an extension over the person in Greenville or BL who lives paycheck to paycheck barely making ends meet? Because I can guarantee you there are more of the latter than the former. And the reval will provide relief to far more people than will be hurt by it. That's a fact.

It's easy to say it's not about the bucks when you've been getting a deep discount on the backs of so many for so long. Funny how a largely democrat population, sanctuary city and all that nonsense, recoils when it's time to pay their FAIR share (spare me. I know not every person affected is a democrat. And no I'm not a republican).

Posted on: 2018/5/24 0:36
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Saradove wrote:
Parkman, I'm with you. I have an 82 year old friend who, with his wife, bought a home in 1968, raised their kids & became a beloved neighbor to many. The house never had a major updating, it was their home with no thought to it becoming a goldmine. He doesn't want to sell ... it's his home, his neighborhood. A home is an emotional thing, sentimental, not always a money-maker as some see it. I realize that this doesn't mesh with today's reality but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.


Way to go Sara. That sounds like Jersey City heart you're speaking with; something that seems to be in short supply amongst the money changers on this forum. It's about home not bucks all the time.

Posted on: 2018/5/23 23:59
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thor800 wrote:
The timing couldn't have been worse - most properties were reassessed at the height of the market


This argument shows a lack of understanding about the revaluation and property taxes. Whether it had been at the height of the market, or bottom, it doesn't matter. If the market had been lower, then the property tax rate would have been higher.

The city needed collect X amount of money.

X = (total value of market) * (tax rate)

If (total value of market) is lower, then (tax rate) has to go up, as X is constant in a revaluation.

The only thing that would make a difference is how different areas stack or compare against each other. The almost four year delay in the reval actually helped DTJC, as that period saw an accelerated increase in valuation in areas outside of DTJC, which translated into properties outside of DTJC getting relative higher levies than they would have 5 years ago.

In any case, the timing matters little. The reval was overdue, and DTJC was in for a HUGE increase regardless of when the reval had been completed. Those who claim the timing was terrible because it is a high market don't understand the issue clearly.



No I completely understand the market - DTJC assessed at the highest values ever with no regard for corresponding drop in market value after taxes double and no guidance moving forward.

Yes it was way overdue and definitely not fair for residents in other words to overpay for years, but also not fair to saddle downtown with absurdly high taxes with no clear plan to reassess more regularly in the future.


A couple of thoughts:
- if values are to drop because of a tax increase, wouldn't the same be true regardless of whether this is a high or low market?

- there IS guidance in place: a revaluation is legally mandated every 10 years. The citizenship should demand that is followed.

- Downtown is not being saddled with absurdly high taxes: they are being assessed the proper taxes, and they only seem high now because they were undertaxed for so long.

- agreed, there is no clear plan to reassess regularly, but there is a law that dictates that to be the case. Citizens can and should demand that future city administrations stick to the law.

- if DTJC loses value, whatever properties come on the market will likely be snapped up by other people. Local inventory is extremely low, although we are definitely seeing more properties being listed, presumably from homeowners who can't, or refuse to, pay the new taxes.

- one final thought: if a market correction takes place, areas outside of DTJC will suffer a much bigger impact. It is always that way. Areas like BeLa were experiencing good progress and gentrifying nicely when the market tanked in 2007/2008. It took over 7 years before it started to regain its footing, and valuation recovering to pre-recession levels. As such, DTJC will continue to retain its value vis-a-vis non-DTJC areas, so taxes wouldn't need to be adjusted.

Posted on: 2018/5/23 20:56
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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HeightsNative wrote:
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thor800 wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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thor800 wrote:
The timing couldn't have been worse - most properties were reassessed at the height of the market


This argument shows a lack of understanding about the revaluation and property taxes. Whether it had been at the height of the market, or bottom, it doesn't matter. If the market had been lower, then the property tax rate would have been higher.

The city needed collect X amount of money.

X = (total value of market) * (tax rate)

If (total value of market) is lower, then (tax rate) has to go up, as X is constant in a revaluation.

The only thing that would make a difference is how different areas stack or compare against each other. The almost four year delay in the reval actually helped DTJC, as that period saw an accelerated increase in valuation in areas outside of DTJC, which translated into properties outside of DTJC getting relative higher levies than they would have 5 years ago.

In any case, the timing matters little. The reval was overdue, and DTJC was in for a HUGE increase regardless of when the reval had been completed. Those who claim the timing was terrible because it is a high market don't understand the issue clearly.



No I completely understand the market - DTJC assessed at the highest values ever with no regard for corresponding drop in market value after taxes double and no guidance moving forward.

Yes it was way overdue and definitely not fair for residents in other words to overpay for years, but also not fair to saddle downtown with absurdly high taxes with no clear plan to reassess more regularly in the future.


They're not "absurdly high taxes"; they're exactly the taxes one should pay for a residence in a particular market. Also, at a rate of 1.62% is still one of the lowest tax RATES in the entire state. Try paying 2.3% or whatever the state average is, on these valuations, then I'd say whoa. But again, there are options: reverse mortgages, the senior freeze, etc.


those are only options if you are a senior 62 or older.

again - youre missing the point about not making any allowances for resulting market impacts

Posted on: 2018/5/23 19:48
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

thor800 wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

thor800 wrote:
The timing couldn't have been worse - most properties were reassessed at the height of the market


This argument shows a lack of understanding about the revaluation and property taxes. Whether it had been at the height of the market, or bottom, it doesn't matter. If the market had been lower, then the property tax rate would have been higher.

The city needed collect X amount of money.

X = (total value of market) * (tax rate)

If (total value of market) is lower, then (tax rate) has to go up, as X is constant in a revaluation.

The only thing that would make a difference is how different areas stack or compare against each other. The almost four year delay in the reval actually helped DTJC, as that period saw an accelerated increase in valuation in areas outside of DTJC, which translated into properties outside of DTJC getting relative higher levies than they would have 5 years ago.

In any case, the timing matters little. The reval was overdue, and DTJC was in for a HUGE increase regardless of when the reval had been completed. Those who claim the timing was terrible because it is a high market don't understand the issue clearly.



No I completely understand the market - DTJC assessed at the highest values ever with no regard for corresponding drop in market value after taxes double and no guidance moving forward.

Yes it was way overdue and definitely not fair for residents in other words to overpay for years, but also not fair to saddle downtown with absurdly high taxes with no clear plan to reassess more regularly in the future.


They're not "absurdly high taxes"; they're exactly the taxes one should pay for a residence in a particular market. Also, at a rate of 1.62% is still one of the lowest tax RATES in the entire state. Try paying 2.3% or whatever the state average is, on these valuations, then I'd say whoa. But again, there are options: reverse mortgages, the senior freeze, etc.

Posted on: 2018/5/23 16:13
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