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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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I think it's hilarious to finally see these idiot NIMBYs and NA board members that blindly listen to people like Yvonne finally get a hard lesson in economics and supply and demand. These groups for years lobbied against anything and everything being built, despite the fact they could have added to the Downtown ratable base and lessened the new burden on a lot of people (all the while they bemoaned how expensive the city is getting and pricing out "real residents" like themselves).

Alas, these groups decided to follow Yvonne's NIMBYism off a cliff when they decided parking was sacrosanct and made it their absolute #1 priority despite the fact we have awful schools, crumbling sidewalks, treeless streets and no infrastructure.

I'm hoping a silver lining is that the new taxes forces these people into the suburbs where they belong and JC can finally develop like every other forward looking city in the world.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 17:54
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

CatDog wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
It's incredible that the city refuses (is there a better, more apt description for their dereliction of duty?) to ticket or enforce easy things that could help the city coffers and lessen the tax burden of city residents.

A brief list of things that could be done to increase revenue:
- enforce parking regulations (zone violations, parked too close to curb, crosswalk blockings, etc)
- enforce basic traffic regulations (speeding, rolling through stop signs, running red lights, etc)
- enforce sidewalk issues
- increase permit parking fee ($15 for yearly permits is a JOKE...!)
- animal control enforcement (failure to clean after dogs, verify and fine for dog license/registration violations)

Cities should absolutely not rely on fines for budgetary reasons, because doing so encourages the government to invent new fines and come up with other ways to pillage the pockets of citizens. Taxes are and always should be the primary method for funding government.

This is the same reason why civil asset forfeiture is so perverse. If cops receive funding from stealing from citizens, they will always find new excuses to steal property.


How about this:

A brief list of things that could be done to improve quality of life which would have the unintended benefit of increasing revenue.

Because, whether or not we want the extra revenue, enforcing of traffic and parking rules, along with things like ensuring pedestrian safety through better sidewalks, is something the city SHOULD do.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 16:46
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
It's incredible that the city refuses (is there a better, more apt description for their dereliction of duty?) to ticket or enforce easy things that could help the city coffers and lessen the tax burden of city residents.

A brief list of things that could be done to increase revenue:
- enforce parking regulations (zone violations, parked too close to curb, crosswalk blockings, etc)
- enforce basic traffic regulations (speeding, rolling through stop signs, running red lights, etc)
- enforce sidewalk issues
- increase permit parking fee ($15 for yearly permits is a JOKE...!)
- animal control enforcement (failure to clean after dogs, verify and fine for dog license/registration violations)

Cities should absolutely not rely on fines for budgetary reasons, because doing so encourages the government to invent new fines and come up with other ways to pillage the pockets of citizens. Taxes are and always should be the primary method for funding government.

This is the same reason why civil asset forfeiture is so perverse. If cops receive funding from stealing from citizens, they will always find new excuses to steal property.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 16:13
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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It's incredible that the city refuses (is there a better, more apt description for their dereliction of duty?) to ticket or enforce easy things that could help the city coffers and lessen the tax burden of city residents.

A brief list of things that could be done to increase revenue:
- enforce parking regulations (zone violations, parked too close to curb, crosswalk blockings, etc)
- enforce basic traffic regulations (speeding, rolling through stop signs, running red lights, etc)
- enforce sidewalk issues
- increase permit parking fee ($15 for yearly permits is a JOKE...!)
- animal control enforcement (failure to clean after dogs, verify and fine for dog license/registration violations)


Posted on: 2018/2/5 15:47
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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AlexC wrote:
There you go - I'm gonna have these trees cut down before they mess the sidewalks. Thanks!


First ask a realtor how much value having a lovely tree lined street adds. I suspect you're being facetious, but people have seriously done this! Or at least failed to replant trees that died or were knocked down by assholes in trucks.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 4:30
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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There you go - I'm gonna have these trees cut down before they mess the sidewalks. Thanks!

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jc_dweller wrote:
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srs7191 wrote:
Actually, I had no idea. Makes a lot more sense now.

So when a sidewalk is all torn up by a tree, to the point of being a hazard, it's the homeowner's liability?



Yes.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 4:18
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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SunnyJC wrote:
So if you see a sidewalk that needs dire repair, take a picture and simply submit it via the JerseyCity Connect app. It supposedly will be investigated and remediation initiated if the complaint is legit.


Except even if the complaint ain't legit, they're determined to find something! That crack he was ready to write up would not have gotten a second glance from anybody. Truly nothing.

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tern wrote:
What retail park on Bright Street and Grove Street?


Robin, I think he means the Old Colony Shopping Center. What country is that called a "retail park"?

Posted on: 2018/2/5 3:48
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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brewster wrote:

Now here's the thing: the neighbor didn't get a citation, because there was no complaint against them! This only works by resident complaint! When I pointed out there were sidewalks like a roller coaster easily found, he said they only respond to complaints.


Exactly. This is how RRC works. The city wants you to do the inspection work for them.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 2:03
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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tern wrote:
What retail park on Bright Street and Grove Street?

Robin.


I said I walked along Bright St from Grove, to the retail park (which is at Monmouth St - https://tinyurl.com/y7bhjoct)

Posted on: 2018/2/5 1:48
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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SunnyJC wrote:
So if you see a sidewalk that needs dire repair, take a picture and simply submit it via the JerseyCity Connect app. It supposedly will be investigated and remediation initiated if the complaint is legit.


Good to know, thanks.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 1:40
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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What retail park on Bright Street and Grove Street?

Robin.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 1:22
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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So if you see a sidewalk that needs dire repair, take a picture and simply submit it via the JerseyCity Connect app. It supposedly will be investigated and remediation initiated if the complaint is legit.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 1:13
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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srs7191 wrote:
Actually, I had no idea. Makes a lot more sense now.

So when a sidewalk is all torn up by a tree, to the point of being a hazard, it's the homeowner's liability?



Yes.

Posted on: 2018/2/5 0:28
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Actually, I had no idea. Makes a lot more sense now.

So when a sidewalk is all torn up by a tree, to the point of being a hazard, it's the homeowner's liability?

Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

srs7191 wrote:
What irks me is that the sidewalks are in such dire straits.

Walked down Bright St today from Grove through to that retail park, absolutely atrocious sidewalks, lots of similar condition sidewalks can be found all around.

Not exactly befitting of a place that can now go up to 30k+ property taxes.


You DO know that sidewalks are the homeowners responsibility? And that if the city inspectors were going around gigging people for crappy sidewalks the furor would be deafening? I got contacted there was a complaint about my sidewalk, turns out was just the disgruntled boyfriend of a tenant looking to harass me. Inspector couldn't find anything, then went "aha!" at a slight crack, till I pointed out it was actually over the property line on the neighbor's property.

Now here's the thing: the neighbor didn't get a citation, because there was no complaint against them! This only works by resident complaint! When I pointed out there were sidewalks like a roller coaster easily found, he said they only respond to complaints.

Posted on: 2018/2/4 23:19
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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srs7191 wrote:
What irks me is that the sidewalks are in such dire straits.

Walked down Bright St today from Grove through to that retail park, absolutely atrocious sidewalks, lots of similar condition sidewalks can be found all around.

Not exactly befitting of a place that can now go up to 30k+ property taxes.


You DO know that sidewalks are the homeowners responsibility? And that if the city inspectors were going around gigging people for crappy sidewalks the furor would be deafening? I got contacted there was a complaint about my sidewalk, turns out was just the disgruntled boyfriend of a tenant looking to harass me. Inspector couldn't find anything, then went "aha!" at a slight crack, till I pointed out it was actually over the property line on the neighbor's property.

Now here's the thing: the neighbor didn't get a citation, because there was no complaint against them! This only works by resident complaint! When I pointed out there were sidewalks like a roller coaster easily found, he said they only respond to complaints.

Posted on: 2018/2/4 22:48
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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What irks me is that the sidewalks are in such dire straits.

Walked down Bright St today from Grove through to that retail park, absolutely atrocious sidewalks, lots of similar condition sidewalks can be found all around.

Not exactly befitting of a place that can now go up to 30k+ property taxes.

Posted on: 2018/2/4 21:34
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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RichMauro wrote:
Some time back I called what is transpiring in Jersey City in as far as this real estate madness as economic violence. Now, more than ever it has revealed itself as extreme. I have looked at the assessment tables and focused on The Village area of downtown, since it was my father's neighborhood. There are elderly tenants still inhabiting many of those wood frame, attached buildings. We're talking about structure built in many cases before the twentieth century.
Valuations are in a large number of them north of three quarters of a million dollars with the attendant taxes now imposed. What in the name of decency is going on in Jersey City ? Is there no one who is going to stop this insanity? Jersey City was once a wonderful city in which to live instead of an investment vehicle or a bedroom community for NYC workers. The last remnants of those who remember that are now under a vicious attack by the forces of the real estate market.
Pity the poor and the aged. true economic violence now reigns supreme in Jersey City.


Economic violence? Again with that nonsense? Those "poor" people sitting on highly valuable property can tap into their equity to pay off their taxes. They don't need to sell, move, or live like indigents. That's pure fear mongering on your part, and that of many others. If a person on a fixed income, or even a very limited one, is sitting on a property worth three quarters of a million dollars, or more, they can apply for a reverse mortgage, or home equity line of credit. They can borrow against their home's value, and that wouldn't be a loss, at all. That property will continue to appreciate at a much faster rate than whatever they need to borrow to cover the taxes.

All this talk of elderly or poor people being forced out because they can't afford taxes on a valuable property is pure crocodile tears and fear mongering.

Posted on: 2018/2/4 20:55
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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RichMauro wrote:
Some time back I called what is transpiring in Jersey City in as far as this real estate madness as economic violence. Now, more than ever it has revealed itself as extreme. I have looked at the assessment tables and focused on The Village area of downtown, since it was my father's neighborhood. There are elderly tenants still inhabiting many of those wood frame, attached buildings. We're talking about structure built in many cases before the twentieth century.
Valuations are in a large number of them north of three quarters of a million dollars with the attendant taxes now imposed. What in the name of decency is going on in Jersey City ? Is there no one who is going to stop this insanity? Jersey City was once a wonderful city in which to live instead of an investment vehicle or a bedroom community for NYC workers. The last remnants of those who remember that are now under a vicious attack by the forces of the real estate market.
Pity the poor and the aged. true economic violence now reigns supreme in Jersey City.


I understand the sentiment, but a lot of people have been able to sell their properties for > $1 million. They're not exactly dragging people out into the gutter.

Posted on: 2018/2/4 14:56
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Likely all those people have been pulling the D line in the voting booth going back to Hague. You reap what you sow.

Posted on: 2018/2/4 13:25
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Some time back I called what is transpiring in Jersey City in as far as this real estate madness as economic violence. Now, more than ever it has revealed itself as extreme. I have looked at the assessment tables and focused on The Village area of downtown, since it was my father's neighborhood. There are elderly tenants still inhabiting many of those wood frame, attached buildings. We're talking about structure built in many cases before the twentieth century.
Valuations are in a large number of them north of three quarters of a million dollars with the attendant taxes now imposed. What in the name of decency is going on in Jersey City ? Is there no one who is going to stop this insanity? Jersey City was once a wonderful city in which to live instead of an investment vehicle or a bedroom community for NYC workers. The last remnants of those who remember that are now under a vicious attack by the forces of the real estate market.
Pity the poor and the aged. true economic violence now reigns supreme in Jersey City.

Posted on: 2018/2/4 12:58
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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CA isn't relevant because of Prop 13. And yes - NYC has low rates because not only do they have a lot of commercial RE but they also have an income tax. JC has a much higher % of residential RE and abundant tax breaks for commercial for competitive reasons. So we end up bearing the load.

I think you get the point by "taking a bullet". Do I think I'm going to get shot walking to the PATH? Of course not, but there is a shooting or two a year downtown - it's not like it doesn't happen. And more accurately, there are far more car burglaries and home break-ins here than in wealthier, distant suburbs. I understand it goes with the territory - just pointing out that one pays a lot for convenience and walkability if the measure is paying the same in property taxes as Summit and Westchester. Everyone's priorities and calculus is different, but if JC is ever going to turn the corner from being primarily a bedroom for NYC the school's need to get better for starters. You can't ignore the school disparity if you are going to compare yourself with places that have far better schools (overall) and expect people to be willing to pay the same amount. Not everyone's kid gets into McNair.

Posted on: 2018/2/3 19:39
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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T-Bird wrote:
Should property taxes be as high in JC as they are in Summit or Westchester? Are services and quality of life remotely comparable? I guess it depends on how much value you put on a short commute (if you work in the city), whether you have kids, level of indifference to taking a bullet, etc.


You have to remember that if you're comparing to NYC, they're a complete anomaly with ridiculously low residential rates subsidized by commercial taxes. Its the result of longtime political pandering. Even in low RE tax CA, in SF the rate is 1.1880% and LA is 1.16%, far higher than NYC.

And yes, for some people it's worth it to have a short commute to a walkable neighborhood. The rise in values make this clear. "Take a bullet"? Seriously? Certainly not DT where the majority of the complaining has/will take place.

Posted on: 2018/2/3 18:18
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Either way. The title of his thread should be corrected to "new tax BILL is insane!"

Again, the rate is one of the lowest in the state.

Posted on: 2018/2/3 16:22
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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From this thread it looks like the inpectors in some case pulled the numbers out of their asses.

So what is the basis of an appeal?

Comp sales?

Posted on: 2018/2/3 15:55
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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FYI - looks like the proposed assessment tables were updated overnight. See the link here.

Posted on: 2018/2/3 13:36
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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I reviewed the .pdf of the 1/24 spreadsheet... and noticed that the highest percentage of 'proposed' increases are all buildings built after about 2000. An older building (like mine) built in 1900 (then rebuilt in 1925 after a fire) tells a different story. I own a small one bedroom condo on 8th St on Hamilton Park, which has not made it into the tables yet; however when comparing sq. foot of my condo vs. surrounding streets and the looking at about the same year the building was built as mine, it seems like the proposed tax increases are 10%-20% vs. much higher percentages on newer buildings/properties. Again, this is just something I noticed, and not sure if anyone else thought the same thing.

Posted on: 2018/2/3 8:51
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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HeightsNative wrote:
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JadedJC wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Like I said earlier, it is incredibly rich to see so many self-avowed liberals become overnight fiscal conservatives demanding more out of less, and crying unfair taxation.


Reminds of a cocktail party I went to waaay back in the 90s, when an acquaintance of mine introduced me to a Republican couple who were prominent at the time. Everything was free market this and free market that with these people, until someone pointed out that they were living in a pretty sweet rent-controlled three-bedroom apartment on the Upper West Side. Then it was all "Hands off our rent-controlled apartment! We're entitled to this apartment!"


I see what you did there. So you're comparing one anecdotal couple to an entire section of a large, heavily liberal democrat city? Not really seeing it.


I really don't see how a small handful of people complaining on a website is representative of "an entire section of a large, heavily liberal democrat (sic) city".

As for bodhipooh's overwrought musings on folks wanting "free" things but not being willing to pay for it - I think most folks on the left understand that taxes are part of the deal and you have to pay for things. Where they tend to get upset (as does most everyone) is when they feel getting less than full value or getting something other than what they want.

Should property taxes be as high in JC as they are in Summit or Westchester? Are services and quality of life remotely comparable? I guess it depends on how much value you put on a short commute (if you work in the city), whether you have kids, level of indifference to taking a bullet, etc.

Posted on: 2018/2/2 22:41
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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ThirdStreet wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Nearly one third of Jersey City is a non-ratable, meaning they are not affected by the new taxes. Everyone is high because nearly $3 billion (2017) figure is not added to the ratable base. If taxes went up 3 or 4 times just multiply that $3 billion to $9 billion or $12 billion for the 2018 rate.


By none-ratable, do you mean the buildings with tax abatement? In that case, I don't think it's true that "they are not affected by the new taxes". I live in Liberty harbor which is supposed to have 20 year tax abatement and which I thought meant my taxes were supposed to change for 20 years . I got the similar letter telling me my taxes are going up too.



You need to check your offering statement (or governing documents) for the abatement agreement. Most abatements have a "Phase Out," and it certainly sounds like you are in that Phase Out.

Posted on: 2018/2/2 21:35
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

JadedJC wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Like I said earlier, it is incredibly rich to see so many self-avowed liberals become overnight fiscal conservatives demanding more out of less, and crying unfair taxation.


Reminds of a cocktail party I went to waaay back in the 90s, when an acquaintance of mine introduced me to a Republican couple who were prominent at the time. Everything was free market this and free market that with these people, until someone pointed out that they were living in a pretty sweet rent-controlled three-bedroom apartment on the Upper West Side. Then it was all "Hands off our rent-controlled apartment! We're entitled to this apartment!"


I see what you did there. So you're comparing one anecdotal couple to an entire section of a large, heavily liberal democrat city? Not really seeing it.


Wow, talk about an overreach in logic. I'm doing no such thing. Just saying his observation reminded me of this one incident. That and maybe the point that a person's principles - no matter what side of the political spectrum they fall on - aren't really tested until it actually costs them something.

Posted on: 2018/2/2 21:33
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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JadedJC wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Like I said earlier, it is incredibly rich to see so many self-avowed liberals become overnight fiscal conservatives demanding more out of less, and crying unfair taxation.


Reminds of a cocktail party I went to waaay back in the 90s, when an acquaintance of mine introduced me to a Republican couple who were prominent at the time. Everything was free market this and free market that with these people, until someone pointed out that they were living in a pretty sweet rent-controlled three-bedroom apartment on the Upper West Side. Then it was all "Hands off our rent-controlled apartment! We're entitled to this apartment!"


I see what you did there. So you're comparing one anecdotal couple to an entire section of a large, heavily liberal democrat city? Not really seeing it.

Posted on: 2018/2/2 21:21
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