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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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It's so funny when people who have no knowledge of the preservation community try to portray them and their positions.
The EPC is perhaps the best and most successful organization in the city. They are focused, willing to compromise (reasonably), and have actually taken steps such as identifying and securing funds for the project. This is a group that deserves everyone's full support. Regarding the need to compromise, it has already been done. There have been plenty of historic resources that have been destroyed in the name of development. The preservation community simply demands that those few remaining that have a proven constituency receive the protection that they deserve. No one can seriously say that this city preserves too much and gets in the way of development.
Posted on: 2009/5/3 14:30
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Quite a regular
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The High Line Length: 1.52 miles Total area: 6.7 acres Buildings travel through 2 City blocks crossed: 22 Total streets traversing: 25 Maximum width 88ft Minimum width: 30ft Height: 29ft above Materials: steel frame, reinforced concrete deck, gravel ballast, metal handrails. Design competition: December 2002 Promenade Plant?e Length: 2.81 miles Total area: 16 acres Buildings travel through2 City blocks crossed: 20 Total streets traversing: 21 Maximum width 100ft Minimum width 30ft Height: 30ft above Materials: brick structure with wood, metal and glass details. Design competition: 1988
Posted on: 2009/5/1 15:26
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My signature will be a funny quote and/or observation.
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Quite a regular
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"Blight" is in the eye of the beholder. Take Xerxes assessment for what it's worth: that is, he willingly lives in a Newport monstrosity.
Posted on: 2009/5/1 14:55
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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The "Embankment" aka Railroad Tracks is a hideous leftover waste of space from a bygone era. The sooner it is razed the better.
Saving EVERYTHING from the past is NOT saving history anymore than saving old kitty litter or rusty cans. As for beauty, if any homeowner had a weed filled back yard that looked like that he would face stiff fines. Views? I agree with the previous poster...the views are better from the street. There's a good reason that we don't see many parks that are 30 feet wide and 15 feet in the air separated every block with busy streets...I guess bridges will have to be built. Preservationist who want to save EVERYTHING give a bad name to those who want to save the most beautiful and historic sites. And that Embankment definitely falls into the category of "everything." Get rid of the BLIGHT!
Posted on: 2009/5/1 14:49
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Bright Moment, love the new photo what happened at the hearing yesterday??
Posted on: 2009/5/1 1:59
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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HPC To Resume Hardship Hearing
Wed, Apr. 29, 6:30 pm City Hall Council Chambers 280 Grove Street The Jersey City Historic Preservation Commission will resume hearing applications, from six LLCs and Conrail, for hardship exemptions that would allow them to demolish the Harsimus Branch Embankment. The Commission previously denied applications for Certificates of Appropriateness for demolition of the Municipal Landmark. We cannot gauge how long these presentations will take or if public comment will be taken on this date or at a subsequent hearing. If you intend to testify against hardship exemptions, come prepared. Guidelines are on the Coalition's web site.
Posted on: 2009/4/29 16:24
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Hyman now wants Embankment mansions
Tuesday, April 21, 2009 By AMY SARA CLARK JOURNAL STAFF WRITER The economy is in the tank. But Steve Hyman, owner of the Sixth Street Embankment, is betting there's still enough rich people around to plunk down $5 million for a mansion in Downtown Jersey City. Unable to come to terms with the city and environmentalists over plans for the elevated, unused railroad turnaround that runs along Sixth Street between Marin Boulevard and Brunswick Street, Hyman is now proposing to build 12 multimillion-dollar homes on the property. "The theory behind these houses is that even though the economy is in tough shape, there are still a lot of wealthy people out there, and you only need a few people to make this work," he said. To appease the city's Historic Preservation Commission, which barred Hyman from tearing down the Embankment's stone walls, Hyman says his new proposal preserves 96 percent of the walls. Even if the HPC were to approve Hyman's mansion plan, he wouldn't be able to begin building anytime soon due to a ruling in August 2007 by the federal Surface Transportation Board, which determined that Conrail never properly "abandoned" the site. Attorneys hired by the city believe the ruling could mean that Hyman no longer owns the land and the city has to be given the opportunity to buy the land for the $3 million it sold for in 2005. But Hyman has appealed the ruling. The Embankment Preservation Coalition wants to preserve the land as open space, while Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy wants a combination of open space and a Light Rail link. In the most recent round of negotiations, the city and the Embankment Preservation Coalition offered to let Hyman build a 490-unit high rise on most of the first block of the Embankment, but he would be required to leave room for the Light Rail and a "Rails-to-Trails" bike and hiking path, Hyman said. "If Mr. Hyman now believes that he needs to build only 12 luxury units to make enough profit, he clearly should put them in one signature building on the Embankment closest to the waterfront or on the at-grade parcels on the west end," Embankment Preservation Coalition representatives said in a statement. "This alternative would preserve the landmark Embankment, accommodate a park and Light Rail and have little to no adverse effect on surrounding historic districts," they added. Hyman is scheduled to go before the HPC on April 29 to again ask for permission to tear down the Embankment walls as part of his original plan to build two-family homes.
Posted on: 2009/4/21 9:09
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Those are some great shots. Look, you can see Bed, Bath and Beyond from there. Oh, and the building that used to be a hospital and is now under construction (for the past umpteen months) to be condos. Hey, you can see roofs from there as well. There's the Doubletree Hotel, Newport Mall, the little league field across the street, Shoprite... the same stuff I can see from my window, front step or around the corner. Sweet. Quote: You have a better chance getting hit by a bullet in Jersey than being hit by a falling stone from the embankment! The odds of getting shot in Jersey are higher than most things, this being Jersey after all.
Posted on: 2009/4/16 8:50
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Save the hysteria over falling stone chicken little! You have a better chance getting hit by a bullet in Jersey than being hit by a falling stone from the embankment! Give me a break!
Posted on: 2009/4/16 2:22
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Quote:
That thread is still here. http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... p?topic_id=16984&forum=10
Posted on: 2009/4/16 0:07
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Hi...
What happened to the thread about the falling stones that caused the JCFD to tape off a whole section of the corner of 6th and Erie. It was front page on the Jersey Journal on Tuesday. Seems that that conveniently disappeared. What about TRUTH do these folks who want to keep the embankment don't realize. And why were the posts removed? Webmaster? Please explain? The embankment needs to come down before someone is injured by falling stones. FACT. Thanks FG
Posted on: 2009/4/15 23:46
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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I'd LOVE to live in luxury up there. But I really think the views belong to all of us. Here's a photo set I took from atop the embankment in late November of 2007:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stc4blue ... 72157603270198814/detail/
Posted on: 2009/4/15 21:51
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Just can't stay away
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luxury housing is better than projects, at least.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 20:46
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I somehow doubt you know what you are talking about. That aside, your comments regarding the Embankment are spot on.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 20:27
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I think it's strong enough to hold either, but not until it's reenforced. The owner isn't going to pay for that if he just ends up having to give it back to the city. Although he runs a liability risk. I would sue if a big brick fell on me. Maybe then I could afford one of his proposed units. I don't mind this plan. I don't mind the park plan. Don't even mind the light rail plan. I just don't want high rises or low income housing.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 19:38
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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So what's the deal? The embankment is too weak and crumbling to hold a park but suddenly it's peachy enough to hold luxury condos and a pool? Please.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 19:30
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I disagree, Grove/Manila is affordable housing all the way from Bay st to 6th st. NO MORE!!! Bring on the biggest bad luxury money can buy are far as I'm concerned just no more projects that will hurt property values. I believe these are the best plans I've seen, I never really liked the Light-Rail idea, I see the disrespectful teenage trash that take it from Bayonne to the mall, no thanks! NIMBY!! If it can't be an elevated park, I think I could actually live with this. Might even be better because a park will not doubt bring crime with it. What's so wrong with Luxury Housing? Never did understand that mentality, are you afraid of being priced out?
Posted on: 2009/4/15 18:59
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Just can't stay away
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Quote:
I'm going to be a bad pupil and disagree with teacher - I hate the new plan, as I've hated all of the other ones. Remember, the alternative not low income housing (although that would be a better use than Hyman's proposal), but a park that EVERYONE can use, that respects the history of the embankment, the neighborhood and Jersey City in general. Our city's industrial past and railway center is part of what makes J.C. unique. It's a wonderful part of our heritage. Remember, there has been a ruling that Hyman never properly purchased the land is therefore not the rightful owner of the Embankment. Remember that Jersey City is woefully short public downtown green spaces. And yes, "hopefully" you'll take a dip in the pool, if your new neighbors deign to let you onto their private property. More luxury housing is the last thing needed in Jersey City.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 18:46
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Terrific plan! Great private use, without congestion, highrises, and more low income housing.
Hopefully, the Mrs & I can go over for cocktails and a dip in that pool!
Posted on: 2009/4/15 16:34
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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This is the first proposal I actually like.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 16:18
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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They forgot to add fences to keep their children from falling off the sides.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 14:55
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Quite a regular
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Looks like there is a new "plan" from the developer. Apparently, all he wants to do is make a profit from the City on land that he does not own. I guess he has no case for his Hardship Application.
Great, go for, try to sell 12 $5 million dollar homes! http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... sal_for_sixth_street.html Facing a failing economy and stymied by a lack of progress on his proposal to put 600 units of housing, a park and a light rail line on top of the Sixth Street Embankment, developer Steve Hyman has come up with a new plan. The plan scraps the park and light rail and instead proposes putting 12 multi-million dollar houses on top of the historic six-block embankment stretching along Sixth Street, from Marin Boulevard to Brunswick Street. "The theory behind these houses is that even though the economy is in tough shape, there are still a lot of wealthy people out there, and you only need a few people to make this work," he said. He also said the new plan is more likely to be approved by the Historic Preservation Commission, since 96 percent of the wall would remain intact. "I got back to the basics and said, 'I'm in front of the HPC and (historic preservation) should be their only charge. If they can't deal with the fact that I need to remove (from the wall) 60 feet out of 1000 feet on each block to get an economic return, there's nothing that will satisfy them," he said. Courtesy of Dean Marchetto Architects A rendering of what the patio of one of the houses proposed for the top of the Sixth Street Embankment in Jersey City could look like. The openings in the walls would allow for garage and pedestrian entrances for the homes, Hyman said. He said he hopes to sell the homes for $5 million each. The fate of the embankment has been under debate since Hyman's wife, Victoria, bought the land for $3 million from Conrail in 2005 to build housing. The Embankment Preservation Coalition wants to preserve the land as open space. Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy wants a combination of open space and a light rail link. But Hyman said he has included those amenities in his previous proposals and has made no progress. "I tried to accommodate them in every plan and every scenario, but the basic request is to save the wall," he said. Courtesy of Dean Marchetto Architects PC A view of what the garage opening in the wall of Jersey City's Sixth Street Embankment would look like in developer Steve Hyman's new plan. Even if the HPC were to approve Hyman's proposal, he wouldn't be able to begin building anytime soon due to a ruling in August 2007 by the obscure federal Surface Transportation Board, which determined that Conrail never properly "abandoned" the site. Attorneys hired by the city believe the ruling could mean that Hyman no longer owns the land and the city has to be given the opportunity to buy the land for the $3 million it sold for in 2005. But Hyman has appealed the ruling. Hyman said if the city really wants the park and the light rail, it should condemn the land and give him fair market value for it, which he puts at around $20 million. City officials could not immediately be reached for comment. An Embankment Preservation Coalition official said the coalition needed time to consider Hyman's proposal before responding. Stay tuned.
Posted on: 2009/4/15 14:10
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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BrightMoment wrote:
Posted on: 2009/4/14 22:13
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2009/4/13 19:04
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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FGJCNJ1970 wrote:
1) The embankment is no longer in use by any sort of railroad. That's as good a reason to preserve it. 2) The sections of the embankment that are left have absolutely no historical value "Absolutely no" is probably not a judgment you're qualified to make. You don't value them, but they go to the history of JC as a town of railroad depots, etc. I think most in EPC does not wish to preserve it just for preservation sake. That message is plain on their posters: "Make my park." 3) Most certainly the embankment contains harmful toxic byproducts from its years of use as a railroad tressel. "Most certainly" is probably not a judgment you're qualified to make, but thank you for your concern about the children. Even so, site remediation can work without or without demolition. 4) The embankment is a major safety issue in that it suffers from decay and portions of either stone or masonry have fallen off the tops of the structures. "Major safety issue" is probably not a judgment you're qualified to make, but thank you for your concern about the children. The Embankment has decayed only in parts, and cosmetically. 5) The embankment is a blight on the downtown community, encouraging urban vandalism and graffiti. This is pure opinion. The thing "encouraging" vandalism is the schmuck lifestyle of the teenagers, etc. It's as if you're trying to blame cars for being stolen, or women for being raped. I'm surprised a person of your conservative nature is not more up-in-arms about the vandals. 6) At night, the embankment is poorly lit, or not lit at all, and creates an UNSAFE environment for criminals to mug and rob citizens. Rather than install street lamps, this important safety concern is best addressed by tearing down the whole structure. Really? Get a grip. 7) Pro embankment liberals have concocted an unfeasable plan to establish an elevated "park" without any financial plans for real viability. Meanwhile existing real parks such as Hamilton park just TWO blocks away desperately need major restoration. "Unfeasible" is probably not a judgment you're qualified to make. But, financing is a concern for any construction, including home construction. Suppose the developer runs out of money half-way through... as many do, and he cannot secure bridge loans to finish the project because no units have been spec'd out, must less sold. Then, nobody wins. Financing is an important concern for all parties. Fortunately, there is already state, county, and local money for it. As to Hamilton Park: that neighborhood should get their act together. Van Vorst is quite nice, and requires only one dog run, instead of the seven over at Hamilton. Talk about tragedy of the commons. 8) Pro embankment persons are against change for the common good and have ulterior motives (like not loosing parking space access behind the embankment). The "common good" is a nebulous concept upon which we clearly disagree. As to parking: seriously? Get a grip. One person posted that on the forum, I bet. So? 9) Even if a park could be funded and built, it would require significant investment and would increase already extremely high local property taxes. If you want "extremely high property taxes", you'd live in Summit, Millburn, Montclair, etc. In the meantime, that's just more opinion from someone who doesn't want to pay more than he is. When the Embankment's park is built, your home will be worth more, so you will be able to move to those areas with extremely high property taxes. I cannot link to the specific findings, but I hope you will explore this site to get your head straight: http://www.nj.com/news/bythenumbers Of course, those are average numbers and do not account for the condos (foolishly?) purchased 3-5 years ago, and thus newly assessed. 10) The embankment proposal has huge insurance implications. Unlike a traditional ground park, this is an elevated train tressel and because of the height, the insurance costs to the city would be enormously expensive. Also, very expensive safety measures would have to be incorporated to prevent someone from falling off. Yes: they will need insurance, and fences. 11) The ground area abutting the embankment frequently becomes a dumping area for trash, rubbish, discarded shopping carts, etc. And garbage cans. 12) certain portions of the embankment are listed on the internet as cruising grounds for inappropriate activity ranging from drug dealing to sexual misconduct - again presenting a danger to the community. The Embankment is not the cause, nor the likely locale for such behavior. If people cruise or buy drugs there: so? You're concerned, again, about lamps and poor policing... not about the structure. As concerned as you are about the children, I'd think you'd be a Republican.
Posted on: 2009/4/9 5:48
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Re: Tear down the embankment
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Home away from home
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I live on that block now and with all due respect you don't live here anymore so shut your yap. KEEP UP THE WALL!! I'd rather have it stay the way it is than tear it down. It is by no means an eyesore. It is a natural untampered space the way it is. Last thing we need is Hyman's aesthetic to F$^% UP sixth street. You are fooling yourself if you think anyone is gonna build brownstones there. The broken lights are Hymans responsibility, if you still lived there you would notice that he doesn't shovel his sidewalk either, that would be taken care of with a park! Are you serious? Promiscuous gay sex? Get the F*** outta here!!! You have lost your marbles. We have people being shot and your priority is that tearing down the embankment is going to reduce the promiscuous gay sex in JC. I have never ever heard anyone complain about promiscuous gay sex, It doesn't appear to be affecting most people. This block is no longer what it was when you were here, nightmare that it was. That's what I hear anyway. To compare Healy to Gorbachev is an insult to Gorbachev. Healy is a useless drunk bum who has an overinflated ego and view of himself. People who support him are unless drones standing in the way of progress for this city and should be ashamed at the moral standard they are being party to. If a child fell from the new park the child would be a very good fence climber and the parent would be unfit. "Don't believe these leftest NIMBY crazy's." To this I say don't believe these gay, fear mongering storytelling imbesols!! Why don't you move to alaska and be Sarah Palin's personal stylist!
Posted on: 2009/4/9 2:55
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2009/4/9 0:51
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
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Yes, tear it down and replace with a blocks-long row of Bayonne Boxes
Posted on: 2009/4/8 21:02
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Quite a regular
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Tear it down. Just do it in a way that's accounts for any toxins.
The embankment is an eyesore and creates dangerous zones for pedestrians. An elevated park will never be paid for. Tear it down.
Posted on: 2009/4/8 14:58
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