JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport [Crime & Safety]

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

#30

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SLyng: No, it is not illegal to travel with 10,001 dollars. You only have to declare it. The subject of our discussion is not that some guy travelled with too much money, but that he failed to declare the money.
Sinik: it is impossible to charge 600 pounds on a credit card on which you don't borrow anything.. See this example http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/jul/12/bankcharges.debt . Free checking, it is not.
W: Banks make money out of your money from the checking account, much like they make from the CDs. One person withdraws, another deposits, but the pool altogether gives to the bank a sum which can be used for anything that the banks invests in, exactly like with any other money.
You say that free checking offers "Check processing. Teller services. ATM services. Printing statements. Accounting. All of this costs money." I have ING Direct - it is internet based. No physical branches whatsoever. No check book. They won't print your statement. How do you think they make any money? Exactly from those overdrafted checks that you think they loathe. In fact, they don't even have overdraft fee - they charge a minute interest, about one dollar. Do you think it costs more for a slave to have the check scanned?
As it happens, the American dream is for us the American nightmare, and we have to receive money from home every once in a while if we want to eat anything else but potatoes. This way I explored all way of transfer money in, and there's nothing more efficient like this sort of pathetic hawala, in which Ivy League students (these being the most travelled from our home country and in our age range) bring you cash, handed to them by mum 48 hours ago. Worst thing is the wire, it can take 6 weeks, during which yours truly would have to eat, as I said, potatoes.
PS.Before starting another lame discussion: we are in such a low tax bracket that we do not mind declaring those money. This year we got all fed taxes back.

Posted on: 2008/7/29 12:31

SLyng

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Seems to me, this is just a debate between what is versus what ought to be.

What is: It's illegal to bring over $10k on international (and i think most domestic) flights. The feds like to keep track of large movements of money. I'm surprised no one mentioned that every time you make a transaction in a bank over $10,000 the IRS is alerted to it. In fact the threshold doesn't even have to be that high. If it even "appears" that you're trying to circumvent the $10k threshold by "structuring" your transactions you can be investigated - See: Elliot Spitzer.

What ought to be: In a country that values freedom and protects property rights the man should be able to do whatever the hell he wants with his hard earned money. (I could put in another "see: Elliot Spitzer" here as well, but that's a whole other topic). If he wants to fly to Nigeria (or where ever it was) to get a cash discount on a Ferrari or buy his parents a new home, let him do it - Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, I say.

And forget this "he proved he payed taxes on the money" - whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The authorities should have to prove that he didn't pay taxes on the money if they want to keep some of his cash! should be pretty easy to do by comparing his filed taxes (i.e. his 1040s filed every April 15th) vs. his standard of living.

There may be a legitimate interest in keeping large amounts of currency from leaving the country (deflation maybe?) but I'm guessing that's not the real aim of the law.

Anyway, bottom line though, he f*cked up and has to pay the piper--A fine presumably, unless upon further investigation he's been drug running, or gun selling, or just not paying taxes. But he sure as hell doesn't owe the piper $128k... And it doesn't mean giving an interest free loan to uncle sam (although it would appear this guy doesn't mind not getting interest on his money).

Posted on: 2008/7/29 2:08

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

JC_DowntownRegular wrote:
Quote:

GeorgeWBush wrote:
I don't think Customs gives a crap if you want to bring Nigerian currency to the United States.

GWB

Actually, as per the CBP website "travelers leaving or entering the U.S. are required to report monetary instruments (i.e. currency or checks) valued at $10,000 or more..."

So yes Customs would give a crap if you brought in Nigerian currency. If they didn't care, then everyone would convert all their money into foreign currency before entering the country and smuggle in all the money they wanted . Just because it is not in US dollars, doesn't mean it does not have to be reported. And any monetary instrument is defined as:
"1. Coin or currency from the U.S. and/or other countries, including gold coins;
2. Travelers Checks;
3. Checks, promissary notes or money orders that can be cashed by the bearer. This includes checks or money orders made out to someone other than the bearer that are endorsed without restriction(i.e. for deposit only.), and incomplete checks, money orders, promissary notes that are signed but on which the name of the payee has been omitted (the "To" line is left blank);
4. Securities or stocks in bearer form."

Interesting. Not sure what the concern would be there, certainly not tax? Ill gotten gains from being a bad boy overseas?

GWB

Posted on: 2008/7/29 1:22

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

GeorgeWBush wrote:
I don't think Customs gives a crap if you want to bring Nigerian currency to the United States.

GWB

Actually, as per the CBP website "travelers leaving or entering the U.S. are required to report monetary instruments (i.e. currency or checks) valued at $10,000 or more..."

So yes Customs would give a crap if you brought in Nigerian currency. If they didn't care, then everyone would convert all their money into foreign currency before entering the country and smuggle in all the money they wanted . Just because it is not in US dollars, doesn't mean it does not have to be reported. And any monetary instrument is defined as:
"1. Coin or currency from the U.S. and/or other countries, including gold coins;
2. Travelers Checks;
3. Checks, promissary notes or money orders that can be cashed by the bearer. This includes checks or money orders made out to someone other than the bearer that are endorsed without restriction(i.e. for deposit only.), and incomplete checks, money orders, promissary notes that are signed but on which the name of the payee has been omitted (the "To" line is left blank);
4. Securities or stocks in bearer form."

Posted on: 2008/7/28 23:19

- Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

JSQ wrote:

Also, you and your ancestors might have weak memories about the move-in process. When I got my visa, a few years ago, the US consulate handed me about 5 sheets with important rules I needed to know, now that I got that visa.

Despite my immediate ancestors coming to the US about 60 years ago, their memories about the move-in process is far from weak. I don't think a transatlantic voyage is something that one forgets especially after being displaced from their native country.

Back in those days, immigrants were required to have a sponsor, a place to live, and a job prior to getting to the country all of which did not come cheap. But I'm not here to argue who had an easier/harder/more or less complicated time in the country.

Going back to the original post, each situation is unique, and if he has proved that he has paid his taxes, then he should get his money back.

Posted on: 2008/7/28 23:08

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sinik

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Overdraft fees in the UK are a lot less than credit card charges

Posted on: 2008/7/28 22:20

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

JSQ wrote:
The fees are reasonable today, but a few years ago they weren\'t.
Some ten years ago, laws were passed to require banks to offer \"basic banking\", e.g. for NYS http://www.banking.state.ny.us/brbba.htm or http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage ... 53CF936A25753C1A962958260 . Included in the \"advantages\"are, I quote:
\"# The monthly charge for the maintenance of the account cannot be more than $3.00.
# Account holders are allowed at least eight withdrawals per month at no additional charge. Withdrawals can include checks, ATM withdrawals and purchases using a debit card attached to the account.\"
If the law was required ten years ago, it means three dollars a month is less than what people used to pay. I can\'t find it right now, but when I researched the subject I recall that, even after the law has passed, people will regularly give up 0.5% of their income whether they cashed checks, deposited checks or used direct deposit.
It was a cash-based economy for most people who cared about such pointless fees.
Why pointless? I don\'t have US numbers, but I read last week a study about UK market. Apparently banks there make more money out of \"free checking\" than out of plastic usury aka credit cards. A fifth of the Brits had to pay overdraft in the last year, and fees plus withheld interest was in the region of hundreds of pounds per capita. Most US banks are also shareholders in Mastercard and/or Visa, a mechanism that milks store owners in the region of 3% for each bill that I am paying with my \"free debit card\". When you have all these sources, to top them with a 3+ dollars a month fee, like you had ten years ago, was simply extortion. It is polite to call that \"reasonable\", but I don\'t see why I would pay ANY fee for my money, that *I* am essentially borrowing to the bank.

My other idea was that, despite conquering Iraq and Afghanistan, dear W, you still weren\'t able to conquer the whole world. A Commerce Bank cashier check is only a very expensive wipe-ass in Nigeria.

Yikes. Ok.

First, taking the Brits who had to pay overdrafts- Don't kite checks & you won't have a problem. Why should a bank be forced to front a guy some dough?

Economy checking was created as a sop by politicians, and it most certainly isn't business that banks really want. Again, they are in business. Check processing. Teller services. ATM services. Printing statements. Accounting. All of this costs money. Did they really want to offer it to someone who keeps $89 in their checking account for the bank to use in lending, and by the way bounces checks from time to time, actually REVERSING the deposit? Hell no.

Problem is you can't live without a bank account, or at least not easily, and God knows it's most important for politicians to make things easy for their constituents, so here comes economy checking, at a loss probably to the bank, a whopping $36 a year in income for the bank.....who processes all the checks, dispenses all the dough in their ATM's, fills em up, sends off all the statements, with all the postage, etc. Some deal for the banks.

IF, by some stroke of genius, the banks have found a way to make this profitable....so what? Is economy checking only good if the banks are LOSING money on it? $3 a month checking accounts with NO balance requirements. Sounds pretty good to me! Is there something noble about losing money? Or is there just something noble about hating filthy capitalists, no matter what?

$128,000 would NOT be sitting in economy checking. Nor would it have been effectively turned away by big fees.

I do not understand withheld interest in the UK-Is it similar to the US? It's done in the states to satisfy the IRS, who gets their piece held back for them. I imagine you are referring to a witholding by Inland Revenue? If so that hardly has anything to do with the banks. In fact, they're being dragooned into becoming agents of IR & IRS.

As far as Visa/Mastercard/American Express milking store owners- It's a contract, an agreement. No store in this country is forced to take credit cards. Go ask Walter over on Hamilton Park. His beer is strictly cash & carry. Does he lose out net net on volume? Apparently not enough for him to care.

And if you think a Nigerian, or any other bank, gets a wire transfer from Commerce or anything major bank and rejects it the only thing I can say is you're flat out wrong. The same goes in reverse- Bank of NY is happy to take a transfer from Siberia- They'll just put a hold on the funds if they have concerns, and they'll hold em until the concerns are gone.

I am quite confident that the hold will be much, much shorter than any hold the federal government is putting on them.

This isn't the stone age. I think you'd be shocked to see just how sophisticated banking is, even in emerging markets. They are pretty good & getting better all the time.

As for your final jab (PSSTT!!! I am not really GWB!) Why are you so hostile on this subject, even though you acknowledged right at the outset that you REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS OR USED TO WORK?

Wiping ass with $128,000 asset transfers? Right. They'd be there with a toaster and a smile begging him to leave it at their bank.

GWB

Posted on: 2008/7/28 22:11

JCbiscuit

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

#23

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wait, did I miss something? when did Bush succeed in conquering Iraq and Afghanistan?

Posted on: 2008/7/28 20:46

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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The fees are reasonable today, but a few years ago they weren\'t.
Some ten years ago, laws were passed to require banks to offer \"basic banking\", e.g. for NYS http://www.banking.state.ny.us/brbba.htm or http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage ... 53CF936A25753C1A962958260 . Included in the \"advantages\"are, I quote:
\"# The monthly charge for the maintenance of the account cannot be more than $3.00.
# Account holders are allowed at least eight withdrawals per month at no additional charge. Withdrawals can include checks, ATM withdrawals and purchases using a debit card attached to the account.\"
If the law was required ten years ago, it means three dollars a month is less than what people used to pay. I can\'t find it right now, but when I researched the subject I recall that, even after the law has passed, people will regularly give up 0.5% of their income whether they cashed checks, deposited checks or used direct deposit.
It was a cash-based economy for most people who cared about such pointless fees.
Why pointless? I don\'t have US numbers, but I read last week a study about UK market. Apparently banks there make more money out of \"free checking\" than out of plastic usury aka credit cards. A fifth of the Brits had to pay overdraft in the last year, and fees plus withheld interest was in the region of hundreds of pounds per capita. Most US banks are also shareholders in Mastercard and/or Visa, a mechanism that milks store owners in the region of 3% for each bill that I am paying with my \"free debit card\". When you have all these sources, to top them with a 3+ dollars a month fee, like you had ten years ago, was simply extortion. It is polite to call that \"reasonable\", but I don\'t see why I would pay ANY fee for my money, that *I* am essentially borrowing to the bank.

My other idea was that, despite conquering Iraq and Afghanistan, dear W, you still weren\'t able to conquer the whole world. A Commerce Bank cashier check is only a very expensive wipe-ass in Nigeria.

Posted on: 2008/7/28 20:44

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

JSQ wrote:
Try walking in a US bank with a 128K check underwritten by a Nigerian bank.
Besides, I heard that only a few years ago, dealing with banks in the US meant highway robbery, with fees for using a card, not using a card, for soliciting a debit card and for not soliciting it, fir check cashing, for direct deposit and for not having a direct deposit, and so on. Even today some of the banks assume that free checking is an advertisement point, not a common feature. Lots of migrant workers just assumed / assume that banks are not for them.
The greatest reason to have it all cash is that, even if you paid taxes in the US, you probably didn't in your home country, and you want things to stay this way. Not sure why you would hide them from the US customs though.

You have it backwards - he was trying to bring $128k OUT of the United States to Africa. I don't think Customs gives a crap if you want to bring Nigerian currency to the United States.

As far as fees go, direct deposit doesn't cost money- banks give you perks to use it. They'll charge fees on small accounts, but they have to- They're not a public service, they're a business. For an account of $128,000 I am fairly certain (make that very certain) that there will be miniscule fees, if any at all- Banks WANT $128,000 accounts. They need them to survive.

I'm not sure what you mean by "you heard" just a few years ago- there's always been a cost for banking, but certainly, the fees in the United States are as low as you'll find anywhere- We have a very diverse number of institutions all screaming bloody murder trying to find a way to entice you into using their services. That's how banks make money, by lending on deposits- they make their money on the carry. Maybe you moved here recently, not attempting to disparage, but by and large for bigger accounts, the fees are quite reasonable, and would be by FAR overwhelmed by even a 2 percent interest rate in a crappy savings money market.

At that rate he'd gross $2560 a year just for putting it in the bank.

Anyway- if he chose not to do so, it should be exactly that -his choice. But Customs is not going to see it that way. They'll see potential hidden revenue & they're going to seize the assets & figure it out later.

GWB

Posted on: 2008/7/28 17:49

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Try walking in a US bank with a 128K check underwritten by a Nigerian bank.
Besides, I heard that only a few years ago, dealing with banks in the US meant highway robbery, with fees for using a card, not using a card, for soliciting a debit card and for not soliciting it, fir check cashing, for direct deposit and for not having a direct deposit, and so on. Even today some of the banks assume that free checking is an advertisement point, not a common feature. Lots of migrant workers just assumed / assume that banks are not for them.
The greatest reason to have it all cash is that, even if you paid taxes in the US, you probably didn't in your home country, and you want things to stay this way. Not sure why you would hide them from the US customs though.

Posted on: 2008/7/28 17:21

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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First of all- I don't know when the last time was that any of you flew, but scattered throughout the airport are signs listing what needs to be declared. The currency declaration even has a big happy picture of MONEY in case someone doesn't understand. To say he didn't know is a stretch.

There are legitimate reasons for stopping individuals from taking money out of the country. Not the least of which is individuals attempting to circumvent judgements, dodge taxes, or launder $$$ from criminal activities.

It's #2 that is the real reason. Taxman is going to get his piece. This is one way he will get it. You are putting yourself into a position that the authorities have the whip hand- now it's up to you to prove that you DID pay taxes on it, rather than up to them to prove that you didn't (used to be that you had to prove that you paid in tax court, but that was changed about a decade ago IRCC).

Chances are that the $$ wasn't declared. I'm going to say something that is going to piss people off, and I agree with you, believe me, but: There is no good reason to be travelling with that amount of cash. Let me rephrase- The GOVERNMENT knows of no good reason for you to be travelling with that amount of cash. Why not wire transfer? Why not travel with a cashier's check? Why not just open an account at a multi national bank? Why are you bringing US currency out of the United States, to be used (in most cases) in a country with it's own sovereign currency?

There are MANY answers here, including privacy, as well as tax dodging, but to the government, none of them are "good" answers.

And here's the part that will really piss people off- They're probably right- The guy probably is trying to dodge taxes or something similar. Do I think that it should be illegal take your money out of the country undeclared? No. Government has used "money laundering" and "terrorism" forever as an excuse when the real goal is "revenue".

I always thought the best way to get $$$$ out of the country, if you needed to, would be to just buy yourself some absolutely absurd pieces of jewelry and just wear it through security. There are so many insane, FAKE jewel encrusted watches/garbage that people wear that nobody would even blink if you had a dozen flawless 2 carat stones somewhere on your person, or even in your pocket, where a million dollars wouldn't even make a buldge.

Would you lose some on the re-sell? Probably, but not as much as you'd lose if it was untaxed or illegal (40% taken/all taken).

GWB

Posted on: 2008/7/28 15:23

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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@JCDR: I am a foreigner, you are not. You and your ancestors should feel less offended.
Also, you and your ancestors might have weak memories about the move-in process. When I got my visa, a few years ago, the US consulate handed me about 5 sheets with important rules I needed to know, now that I got that visa. They included the 10K rule.
They were in our native language and they printed a set for anybody who got a visa, spouses, children etc. In fact you couldn't get the visa if you didn't show proof of having thousands of dollars, a high school degree, no TB, no AIDS. Your chances will be very weak if your English was not satisfactory to the consular assistant on whom your whole life was depending. This last one wasn't a written rule, you could just pick up that from internet boards - "I was turned down, probably because I didn't appear able to make a living", and so on. You couldn't sign the bloody forms saying that you were no Nazi if you did not understand any English - and you had to pay for a translator to be brought into the consulate. That is, if you prayed a lot and hoped the consular assistant had a good night sleep to let you through if you spoke no English.
I am sure many of the ancestors of the people currently living in this country, and even plenty of those who got their citizenship these days, did not have to go through this. Like many things regarding my American experience up to now, this "play by the rules" thing I did makes me feel a bit stupid. Why can't I pretend I didn't know this or that rule?

Posted on: 2008/7/28 4:01

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

JSQ wrote:
The rule that not knowing the law is not a valid excuse has been established in ancient Rome. He could pull the one with "the dog ate my homework" with equal success.
Foreigners usually learn about this rule from the US consulate which granted them visa initially (if they had any visa, that is) - because this rule applies to entries too. This makes foreigners more aware of the rule than the natives.

JSQ,

You are making a huge assumption here. Again, I firmly believe that everyone should know the laws and regulations. However, knowing them AND understanding them are two separate things. Can you imagine the number of rules, codes, regulations, etc., that foreigners are probably inundated with when they come to this country? And of course, how many foreigners have a complete understanding of the English language to understand the regulations completely? Do you ever read and understand all the fine print when you shop for a car or a cell phone - same principle.

As an example of a ridiculous law still on the books to my knowledge, I'm sure that you know that donkeys can't sleep in bathtubs in Brooklyn - although I doubt the consulate informs foreigners of this one

.

What a dig at foreigners - "if they had any visa, that is". Might as well lump all of our ancestors in there with that statement. I could be wrong but quite the xenophobic statement.

Posted on: 2008/7/27 15:54

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dojan

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

wibbit wrote:
Quote:

heights wrote:
being a foreigner or terrorist

yes they are all the same, foreigners/terrorists/blacks/asians. f em all, USA USA USA!!

you are a real piece of work.

Ah I thought we were back to the Third Reich. Hey wibbit you forgot yuppies/homosexuals/Hobokenites

Posted on: 2008/7/27 4:00

SalOnTheHill

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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Quote:

JC_DowntownRegular wrote:
Quote:

heights wrote:
Serves him right ! Just like the dopes that had more than $100k in those failed banks where the F.D.I.C. only gives half of anything over than $100k. Ignorance and being a foreigner or terrorist is no excuse for breaking the law.

Heights, I guess everyone can not be as well versed in international commerce and customs regulations and as financially savvy as you.

Yes it is up to each individual to know the rules and regulations beforehand, but don't throw it back in their face when they make an honest mistake.

I'm sure you never ever made a mistake. And you probably never ever brought anything back into the country without declaring it.

You give heights a lot more credit than I do. I'm willing to bet heights has never held a passport or left the country.

Posted on: 2008/7/27 3:26

Re: Jersey City construction worker has $128,000 confiscated at airport

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The rule that not knowing the law is not a valid excuse has been established in ancient Rome. He could pull the one with "the dog ate my homework" with equal success.
Foreigners usually learn about this rule from the US consulate which granted them visa initially (if they had any visa, that is) - because this rule applies to entries too. This makes foreigners more aware of the rule than the natives.

Posted on: 2008/7/27 3:11