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Re: Trump Our New President
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Wrong yet again (I do admire your consistency.) I did watch a good chunk of his speech. I saw his mouth move. I heard words come out. He has contradicted himself at almost every step of the campaign - we are supposed to believe these particular words because they came at a particular point in time? That's foolish. I'll see what he actually does rather than listen to the word salad. At least he accepted the results of the election...

Look - this will play out the same way it always does. The novice will get in office, full of big plans. He has the wind at his back with the house and senate. They will inevitably overreach - I won't predict how, but there are probably a dozen likely paths. In 2018, the senate will flip. If he's learned on the job and matured to the point that he's respected within his party and can consistently act like an adult, he'll have a fighting chance to win a second term but he'll never have the both the house and senate again after 2018. However, when the people who feel as though they've been left behind realize in four years that nothing changed in their lives, they aren't as likely to turn out in big numbers. And after the 2020 census, districts will be redrawn and the the machine that hands the house to the GOP every two years by big margins in total seats despite getting fewer votes, will be weakened to an extent.

Nothing will change. Manufacturing jobs that disappeared from the US aren't going to magically reappear not because the US worker can't compete but because those jobs don't exist on anywhere near the scale they used to, having been replaced by technology. Trade deals aren't going to be canceled. Debt isn't going to be "renegotiated". He'll get a judge or two, probably a tax cut that won't benefit the working class and relations with the rest of the world will suffer. And that's about the extent of it - he doesn't have the temperament or intellect to actually effect much of what he's after. If congress happens to like something he's talked about, they'll tee it up for him and that'll get done.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 18:09
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
These are a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging an obvious, simple truth: the RNC did not allow the personal opinions of its leaders to interfere with the will of its voters.

You're performing very few mental gymnastics to ignore that the vast majority of Republican leaders did exactly that, including refusing to support him, revoking support, not campaigning with him, not providing funding, and the RNC doing the absolute minimum.

I.e. It sure looks like they did as little as possible to help him, without utterly destroying their own party with a direct rejection. It was not a show of integrity, it was a craven decision as a direct result of their purpose -- maintaining political power for their party.


Quote:
This is inherently undemocratic....

lol

For the second time in recent memory, a Democrat won the popular vote, and lost the electoral college. In this case, the Democrat lost to a candidate who has been screeching for months that the election is "rigged," yet is awfully silent about that since he won. Democracy, indeed....


Quote:
RNC emails that would show they hated Trump only makes my point stronger. You clearly are an intelligent man so I'm not sure why you are being so obtuse over this simple point.

You've GOT to be kidding. DNC staffers supporting Hillary were undemocratic and cost her the election, but if the RNC did the same for Trump's opponents then that's a sign of a healthy democratic system and organization integrity? Ludicrous.


Quote:
He's not beholden to special interests or anyone, vastly unlike Hillary.

Right, it's not like he's borrowed millions from Wall Street banks for decades, or done business with Chinese companies and Saudi royalty, or has business contracts with wealthy real estate owners and contractors. Yes, we can know this for certain because of his long history in public service. Oh, wait....

And of course, we know a few of Trump's donors in this election cycle:

Renaissance Technology: $15 million
GH Palmer: $2 million
Marcus Foundation: $2 million
Hawaiian Gardens Casino: $1 million

And that's just the ones publicly disclosed, as there is tons of dark money sloshing around.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contributors?id=N00023864

Surely you cannot be naive enough to think Renaissance donated $15m to Trump alone, out of the goodness of their quantitative hearts?

And is he his "own man" if he advocates for tax breaks that benefit people of his own income level, and casinos, and real estate magnates?

Oh, wait, I know what the answer will be. Heeding big donors and setting up tax cuts for his own businesses is just "good business." Well, at least when Trump does it.


Quote:
And you are wrong to suggest he is "one of them." His entire life he's been shunned by them; he's a true outsider.

Good grief, what a steaming pile. He was born into wealth, he was raised in wealth, he attended elite colleges, he's been rubbing shoulders with the elites (including signing business deals and donating to politicians from both parties) for decades.

This myth that he's a "man of the people" is sheer nonsense. I really don't know why anyone falls for it.


Dolomiti, read my lips:

1. POTUS
2. SCOTUS (soon)
3. House
4. Senate

Sucks to be you, I know.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 18:03
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Re: Trump Our New President
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You clearly didn't bother to watch Trump's speech and your perception of reality is skewed by the liberal information sources you read (this includes most of the mass media).

Trump doesn't spread hate against legal Americans; Hillary does by making statements like her "deplorables" comment. The media spread this deceitful canard that nationalism somehow equates to white nationalism, but that lie just isn't true no matter how many times you say it.

Trump wants to unite the country and Make America Great Again, and he may be able to do just that.

Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
No need to repeat - you don't have much to say that's interesting and you clearly don't bother to read what others say. I acknowledged that the rules are what they are - but when one party wins the popular vote six out of the last seven presidential elections and routinely outpolls the other party in house races by a million + votes in aggregate, the sentient person at least pauses to consider if maybe the system isn't functioning as it should. At least considers it.

But I won't piss on your day. Create whatever narrative you need to validate your view of yesterday as a watershed moment in American politics. Go ahead - Make America Hate Again!

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Losing so badly that she'll win the national vote. This wasn't a huge win - don't kid yourself. The electoral college is what it is and those were the rules of the game going in, but when you can add up ten states with a combined population of 23 million and get 55 electoral votes, the same number as California gets with 39 million people - that isn't exactly a representative democracy.


Boy, those grapes sure must be sour!

I'll repeat what I explained to Dolomiti:


The Democrat winning the popular vote (by a minute fraction) is irrelevant for present purposes since everyone campaigned under the rules of the Electoral College. Had the winner been determined by popular vote, both parties would have campaigned very differently. We don't know what the result would have been in such a circumstance.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:46
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Al Gore won the popular vote like Hillary might, yet didn't win the election. Not a new concept.


Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:32
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Re: Trump Our New President
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No need to repeat - you don't have much to say that's interesting and you clearly don't bother to read what others say. I acknowledged that the rules are what they are - but when one party wins the popular vote six out of the last seven presidential elections and routinely outpolls the other party in house races by a million + votes in aggregate, the sentient person at least pauses to consider if maybe the system isn't functioning as it should. At least considers it.

But I won't piss on your day. Create whatever narrative you need to validate your view of yesterday as a watershed moment in American politics. Go ahead - Make America Hate Again!

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Losing so badly that she'll win the national vote. This wasn't a huge win - don't kid yourself. The electoral college is what it is and those were the rules of the game going in, but when you can add up ten states with a combined population of 23 million and get 55 electoral votes, the same number as California gets with 39 million people - that isn't exactly a representative democracy.


Boy, those grapes sure must be sour!

I'll repeat what I explained to Dolomiti:


The Democrat winning the popular vote (by a minute fraction) is irrelevant for present purposes since everyone campaigned under the rules of the Electoral College. Had the winner been determined by popular vote, both parties would have campaigned very differently. We don't know what the result would have been in such a circumstance.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:31
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Quote:

asny10011 wrote:
surprised to see so many trump supporters on jclist! yikes


What part of America and Great do you not agree with?

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:31
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Losing so badly that she'll win the national vote. This wasn't a huge win - don't kid yourself. The electoral college is what it is and those were the rules of the game going in, but when you can add up ten states with a combined population of 23 million and get 55 electoral votes, the same number as California gets with 39 million people - that isn't exactly a representative democracy.


Boy, those grapes sure must be sour!

I'll repeat what I explained to Dolomiti:

The Democrat winning the popular vote (by a minute fraction) is irrelevant for present purposes since everyone campaigned under the rules of the Electoral College. Had the winner been determined by popular vote, both parties would have campaigned very differently. We don't know what the result would have been in such a circumstance.

And ending up with more than 300 Electoral College votes and control of all branches of the government is a landslide victory and a HUGE win - don't kid yourself.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:25
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Dolomiti:

1. You are right about the Republican leaders, as I've already said multiple times. The crucial fact you ignore is that the RNC accepted the will of their voters and allowed Trump - who they hated - to be their nominee.

They didn't pull shenanigans like the DNC did and use their many contacts in the mass media to marginalize Bernie from the very beginning. They didn't set up an undemocratic system of "super delegates" to put their thumb on the scale for Hillary since Day 1, making her falsely appear to be far more electable.

They could have pulled some real BS at the convention to deprive Trump of the nomination (which some in the media were urging) but they did not.

Simply put, the DNC rigged the primaries against Sanders and this was a large part of their undoing.

2. The Democrat winning the popular vote (by a minute fraction) is irrelevant for present purposes since everyone campaigned under the rules of the Electoral College. Had the winner been determined by popular vote, both parties would have campaigned very differently. We don't know what the result would have been in such a circumstance.

3. You seem to think I like the RNC. I don't. I just give them credit for surmounting a very low bar: respecting the will of the voters.

4. It is regrettable you are one of the partisan shills who can't see how Trump is his own man. I'm thrilled that he won because it's basically like electing a third party candidate as President.

Do you know who one of his strongest lobbies is? The NRA.

How does he treat the NRA? Not by cravenly adopting all of their positions. Instead he continues to speak his mind. Case in point was his statement at one of the debates that he agreed that people on the terrorist watch list should not be able to purchase guns.

This position is STRONGLY in conflict with the NRA. Im sure they were incensed when he said that. Personally I don't agree with it (I agree with the NRA) but this is just another example of how Trump is his own man.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:24
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Re: Trump Our New President
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So.... the real question is which first lady is hotter?

Jackie Kennedy or Melania Trump?

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:22
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Losing so badly that she'll win the national vote. This wasn't a huge win - don't kid yourself. The electoral college is what it is and those were the rules of the game going in, but when you can add up ten states with a combined population of 23 million and get 55 electoral votes, the same number as California gets with 39 million people - that isn't exactly a representative democracy.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:21
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Re: Trump Our New President
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You didn't "fix" anything. Both words could be appropriately used there.

But if that's all you took from the post, enjoy losing future elections as badly as this one.

Quote:

colleen wrote:
Fixed it for you

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
JCMan8 wrote:
[quote]
Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
JCMan8 wrote:
The basic function of a political party is to serve the will of its voters.

Not to use cheating, manipulation, and shady tactics to ensure the will of a handful of party "elites"...

... Anyone who thinks that will magically stop on inauguration day is in for quite a shock.


These are a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging an obvious, simple truth: the RNC did not allow the personal opinions of its leaders to interfere with the will of its voters. The DNC did, by rigging the primary against Sanders.

This is inherently undemocratic and a big part of the reason why the Dems were handed a monumentalmomentous defeat. RNC emails that would show they hated Trump only makes my point stronger. You clearly are an intelligent man so I'm not sure why you are being so obtuse over this simple point.

Also, say what you will about Trump, but everyone except for partisan shills recognizes that he's his own man. He's not beholden to special interests or anyone, vastly unlike Hillary. And you are wrong to suggest he is "one of them." His entire life he's been shunned by them; he's a true outsider.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:09
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Fixed it for you

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
JCMan8 wrote:
[quote]
Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
JCMan8 wrote:
The basic function of a political party is to serve the will of its voters.

Not to use cheating, manipulation, and shady tactics to ensure the will of a handful of party "elites"...

... Anyone who thinks that will magically stop on inauguration day is in for quite a shock.


These are a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging an obvious, simple truth: the RNC did not allow the personal opinions of its leaders to interfere with the will of its voters. The DNC did, by rigging the primary against Sanders.

This is inherently undemocratic and a big part of the reason why the Dems were handed a monumentalmomentous defeat. RNC emails that would show they hated Trump only makes my point stronger. You clearly are an intelligent man so I'm not sure why you are being so obtuse over this simple point.

Also, say what you will about Trump, but everyone except for partisan shills recognizes that he's his own man. He's not beholden to special interests or anyone, vastly unlike Hillary. And you are wrong to suggest he is "one of them." His entire life he's been shunned by them; he's a true outsider.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 17:01
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
These are a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging an obvious, simple truth: the RNC did not allow the personal opinions of its leaders to interfere with the will of its voters.

You're performing very few mental gymnastics to ignore that the vast majority of Republican leaders did exactly that, including refusing to support him, revoking support, not campaigning with him, not providing funding, and the RNC doing the absolute minimum.

I.e. It sure looks like they did as little as possible to help him, without utterly destroying their own party with a direct rejection. It was not a show of integrity, it was a craven decision as a direct result of their purpose -- maintaining political power for their party.


Quote:
This is inherently undemocratic....

lol

For the second time in recent memory, a Democrat won the popular vote, and lost the electoral college. In this case, the Democrat lost to a candidate who has been screeching for months that the election is "rigged," yet is awfully silent about that since he won. Democracy, indeed....


Quote:
RNC emails that would show they hated Trump only makes my point stronger. You clearly are an intelligent man so I'm not sure why you are being so obtuse over this simple point.

You've GOT to be kidding. DNC staffers supporting Hillary were undemocratic and cost her the election, but if the RNC did the same for Trump's opponents then that's a sign of a healthy democratic system and organization integrity? Ludicrous.


Quote:
He's not beholden to special interests or anyone, vastly unlike Hillary.

Right, it's not like he's borrowed millions from Wall Street banks for decades, or done business with Chinese companies and Saudi royalty, or has business contracts with wealthy real estate owners and contractors. Yes, we can know this for certain because of his long history in public service. Oh, wait....

And of course, we know a few of Trump's donors in this election cycle:

Renaissance Technology: $15 million
GH Palmer: $2 million
Marcus Foundation: $2 million
Hawaiian Gardens Casino: $1 million

And that's just the ones publicly disclosed, as there is tons of dark money sloshing around.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contributors?id=N00023864

Surely you cannot be naive enough to think Renaissance donated $15m to Trump alone, out of the goodness of their quantitative hearts?

And is he his "own man" if he advocates for tax breaks that benefit people of his own income level, and casinos, and real estate magnates?

Oh, wait, I know what the answer will be. Heeding big donors and setting up tax cuts for his own businesses is just "good business." Well, at least when Trump does it.


Quote:
And you are wrong to suggest he is "one of them." His entire life he's been shunned by them; he's a true outsider.

Good grief, what a steaming pile. He was born into wealth, he was raised in wealth, he attended elite colleges, he's been rubbing shoulders with the elites (including signing business deals and donating to politicians from both parties) for decades.

This myth that he's a "man of the people" is sheer nonsense. I really don't know why anyone falls for it.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 16:51
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Re: Trump Our New President
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surprised to see so many trump supporters on jclist! yikes

Posted on: 2016/11/9 16:10
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
New York Times:

It has become a reflexive pledge, often half-joking, after an election: Worried about the next president? Move to another country.

After the news of Donald J. Trump’s victory in the presidential election was confirmed early Wednesday, many Americans apparently considered doing just that.

One likely destination was north. Late at night, Canada’s citizenship and immigration website crashed as it was flooded with interest.



Could have been looking for free phones and state sponsored single payer healthcare with euthanasia options.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 16:02
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Re: Trump Our New President
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stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
The process to how to migrate to New Zealand or Australia starts next Monday


They don't take losers.


Not so fast - My skills and qualifications are on the 'shortage list' in New Zealand and Australia for fast track migration and with the dollar exchange, I'll be sitting pretty. I'm looking forward to process as I had made general inquiries a few years back - I like the idea of no snow as I get older and the building industry in both countries are doing very well.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 15:37
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Re: Trump Our New President
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New York Times:

It has become a reflexive pledge, often half-joking, after an election: Worried about the next president? Move to another country.

After the news of Donald J. Trump’s victory in the presidential election was confirmed early Wednesday, many Americans apparently considered doing just that.

One likely destination was north. Late at night, Canada’s citizenship and immigration website crashed as it was flooded with interest.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 15:15
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
The basic function of a political party is to serve the will of its voters.

Not to use cheating, manipulation, and shady tactics to ensure the will of a handful of party "elites" (and their donors) is paramount, and the stupid voters will come in line eventually.

Republicans understood this. Democrats did not. The entirely undemocratic way the Democratic Party is run is a big factor in causing their loss.

Please.

The Republican political class is just as elite as the Democratic political class. That's one reason why so much of it fought Trump right down to the wire. Even today, they are hoping that he will be a sane human being, despite abundant evidence that will not be the case.

The Republican elite has spent decades catering to their wealthy donors and corporations, often at the expense of those who voted for Trump.

And while this was a notable electoral college victory, the popular vote was very close, with Clinton actually winning. A few thousand votes in a few swing states would have produced a Clinton presidency. This is not a resounding mandate for Trump's policies (whatever they are).

Trump rode a wave of anti-government, anti-minority, nativist populism that he barely understands, against a skilled but flawed candidate. The result is that we've elected a mendacious authoritarian to the Presidency, who is highly likely to terminate health insurance for millions (while premiums and drug costs continue to skyrocket), sent deficits into the stratosphere, hire cronies to inefficiently run federal agencies, drive the economy and the US's reputation into a ditch, and destroy the Republican Party while he's at it.

Meanwhile, the evangelicals who held their nose in the hope he will outlaw abortion will be deeply disappointed, as even the most conservative SCOTUS won't overturn Roe / Hellerstedt any time soon.

Is that what his voters want? How fascinating.


Oh please yourself. You didn't post anything of substance....




Quote:
And if you were paying attention you'd see I referred to the entity of a political party, not their leaders. Meaning the DNC and the RNC.

Riiiiiight

Of course, that doesn't change jack. The RNC has spent decades sucking up to, and doing the will, of corporate entities, political elites, and wealthy donors for decades. At first they tried to assimilate the Tea Party, then they attacked it viciously. They have pushed for lower taxes for the wealthy, free trade, and keeping power in Washington.

The RNC raised and spent $400 million for the 2012 cycle. Wanna guess who we know donated to them?

Goldman Sachs: $1.2 mil
KKR (private equity firm) $822k
Bain $700k
Blackstone $670k

Ellliot Management, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Las Vegas Sands, Bank of America.... the list goes on.
https://www.opensecrets.org/parties/contrib.php?cycle=2012&cmte=RNC

Oddly enough, the RNC only collected $87 million this year... and most of it was spent on the down ballot. Which they were terrified they were going to lose.


Quote:
While it's certainly true that the Republican leadership is just as "elite" as the Democrats, the RNC decided not to interfere with the will of their voters.

I know it's a bit late, but wake up. The RNC did the absolute bare minimum to support Trump. They spent almost nothing on him, they did almost no ground work for him, they didn't browbeat other Republicans into supporting him.

And I'm sure if we saw a rash of RNC emails, all of them would be pro-Trump.... lol


And yet again, it's highly unlikely that Trump is going to screw the corporate donor class that supports the Republican party. Not only is he one of them, and not only are Congressional Republicans still in thrall to their donors: He spent the entire election flipping on positions, reversing himself on a regular basis, and blatantly lying about pretty much everything, and getting away with it. Anyone who thinks that will magically stop on inauguration day is in for quite a shock.


These are a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging an obvious, simple truth: the RNC did not allow the personal opinions of its leaders to interfere with the will of its voters. The DNC did, by rigging the primary against Sanders.

This is inherently undemocratic and a big part of the reason why the Dems were handed a monumental defeat. RNC emails that would show they hated Trump only makes my point stronger. You clearly are an intelligent man so I'm not sure why you are being so obtuse over this simple point.

Also, say what you will about Trump, but everyone except for partisan shills recognizes that he's his own man. He's not beholden to special interests or anyone, vastly unlike Hillary. And you are wrong to suggest he is "one of them." His entire life he's been shunned by them; he's a true outsider.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 15:11
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Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
The basic function of a political party is to serve the will of its voters.

Not to use cheating, manipulation, and shady tactics to ensure the will of a handful of party "elites" (and their donors) is paramount, and the stupid voters will come in line eventually.

Republicans understood this. Democrats did not. The entirely undemocratic way the Democratic Party is run is a big factor in causing their loss.

Please.

The Republican political class is just as elite as the Democratic political class. That's one reason why so much of it fought Trump right down to the wire. Even today, they are hoping that he will be a sane human being, despite abundant evidence that will not be the case.

The Republican elite has spent decades catering to their wealthy donors and corporations, often at the expense of those who voted for Trump.

And while this was a notable electoral college victory, the popular vote was very close, with Clinton actually winning. A few thousand votes in a few swing states would have produced a Clinton presidency. This is not a resounding mandate for Trump's policies (whatever they are).

Trump rode a wave of anti-government, anti-minority, nativist populism that he barely understands, against a skilled but flawed candidate. The result is that we've elected a mendacious authoritarian to the Presidency, who is highly likely to terminate health insurance for millions (while premiums and drug costs continue to skyrocket), sent deficits into the stratosphere, hire cronies to inefficiently run federal agencies, drive the economy and the US's reputation into a ditch, and destroy the Republican Party while he's at it.

Meanwhile, the evangelicals who held their nose in the hope he will outlaw abortion will be deeply disappointed, as even the most conservative SCOTUS won't overturn Roe / Hellerstedt any time soon.

Is that what his voters want? How fascinating.


Oh please yourself. You didn't post anything of substance....




Quote:
And if you were paying attention you'd see I referred to the entity of a political party, not their leaders. Meaning the DNC and the RNC.

Riiiiiight

Of course, that doesn't change jack. The RNC has spent decades sucking up to, and doing the will, of corporate entities, political elites, and wealthy donors for decades. At first they tried to assimilate the Tea Party, then they attacked it viciously. They have pushed for lower taxes for the wealthy, free trade, and keeping power in Washington.

The RNC raised and spent $400 million for the 2012 cycle. Wanna guess who we know donated to them?

Goldman Sachs: $1.2 mil
KKR (private equity firm) $822k
Bain $700k
Blackstone $670k

Ellliot Management, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Las Vegas Sands, Bank of America.... the list goes on.
https://www.opensecrets.org/parties/contrib.php?cycle=2012&cmte=RNC

Oddly enough, the RNC only collected $87 million this year... and most of it was spent on the down ballot. Which they were terrified they were going to lose.


Quote:
While it's certainly true that the Republican leadership is just as "elite" as the Democrats, the RNC decided not to interfere with the will of their voters.

I know it's a bit late, but wake up. The RNC did the absolute bare minimum to support Trump. They spent almost nothing on him, they did almost no ground work for him, they didn't browbeat other Republicans into supporting him.

And I'm sure if we saw a rash of RNC emails, all of them would be pro-Trump.... lol


And yet again, it's highly unlikely that Trump is going to screw the corporate donor class that supports the Republican party. Not only is he one of them, and not only are Congressional Republicans still in thrall to their donors: He spent the entire election flipping on positions, reversing himself on a regular basis, and blatantly lying about pretty much everything, and getting away with it. Anyone who thinks that will magically stop on inauguration day is in for quite a shock.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 14:48
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T-Bird wrote:
#draintheswamp? #burnitdown? Hardly. Of the 392 house members running for re-election, only 8 seats flipped to the other party. One senate seat (maybe 2, depending on the NH outcome.) That's 10 out of 426 - Washington is "the swamp" and nothing is more disliked than congress, yet nothing changed.

Last night was a repudiation of HRC (and Bill) and to a much lesser extent, the President. I was grateful not to have to vote for her, given my confidence that Trump wouldn't win NJ. Clinton was a historically bad candidate and I truly believe any other Democrat would have won last night, including Sanders - although she will still end up winning the popular vote. Trump would not have won PA, MI or probably WI against virtually anyone else.

This really is no mass uprising or a mandate or anything of the sort - it is just another example of how deeply divided the country is.


Correct. Any complaining or finger pointing has to be at the process that nominated her

Posted on: 2016/11/9 14:41
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#draintheswamp? #burnitdown? Hardly. Of the 392 house members running for re-election, only 8 seats flipped to the other party. One senate seat (maybe 2, depending on the NH outcome.) That's 10 out of 426 - Washington is "the swamp" and nothing is more disliked than congress, yet nothing changed.

Last night was a repudiation of HRC (and Bill) and to a much lesser extent, the President. I was grateful not to have to vote for her, given my confidence that Trump wouldn't win NJ. Clinton was a historically bad candidate and I truly believe any other Democrat would have won last night, including Sanders - although she will still end up winning the popular vote. Trump would not have won PA, MI or probably WI against virtually anyone else.

This really is no mass uprising or a mandate or anything of the sort - it is just another example of how deeply divided the country is.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 14:39
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definitely a historical upset.

dems so massively miscalculated their base. If it was bernie instead vs trump, most likely bernie will win. Since they both represent the same base for those swing voters in the middle. But faced with a choice of hillary vs trump, and 8 years of obama fatigue. The middle has no choice but to capitulate to trump.

he will either be a great president that actually get things done, or one of the worst president in history. There is no middle ground for trump.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 14:03
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The Pendulum swings... But it will be ok.

When the "Community Organizer" took office, everyone in Texas threatened to secede. He had zero experience and only won because of "the show".

We thought the world would end. It didn't.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 13:57
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LOL as of 1:45 pm the DOW is up 215.

So much for the world ending.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 13:55
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AlexC wrote:
If he wins, I hope you Trump supporters cashed in your IRA or SEP's or any stocks you have that are based on the Dow, SP500 or NASDAQ

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
I hope to GOD he is our next president.

Hillary was a heavy favorite so I won't get too excited until he hits 270. But Trump is looking good so far.

A clear demonstration that the American people have risen up against "progressives," the bullshit they spew in our media, and political correctness. If he wins, it will be one of the greatest days in American history. Certainly the most rapid and unexpected political rise in American history.


Where is our stock market update Alex?

Posted on: 2016/11/9 13:48
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Optics are everything...

Resized Image


Resized Image

Posted on: 2016/11/9 13:11
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Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
The basic function of a political party is to serve the will of its voters.

Not to use cheating, manipulation, and shady tactics to ensure the will of a handful of party "elites" (and their donors) is paramount, and the stupid voters will come in line eventually.

Republicans understood this. Democrats did not. The entirely undemocratic way the Democratic Party is run is a big factor in causing their loss.

Please.

The Republican political class is just as elite as the Democratic political class. That's one reason why so much of it fought Trump right down to the wire. Even today, they are hoping that he will be a sane human being, despite abundant evidence that will not be the case.

The Republican elite has spent decades catering to their wealthy donors and corporations, often at the expense of those who voted for Trump.

And while this was a notable electoral college victory, the popular vote was very close, with Clinton actually winning. A few thousand votes in a few swing states would have produced a Clinton presidency. This is not a resounding mandate for Trump's policies (whatever they are).

Trump rode a wave of anti-government, anti-minority, nativist populism that he barely understands, against a skilled but flawed candidate. The result is that we've elected a mendacious authoritarian to the Presidency, who is highly likely to terminate health insurance for millions (while premiums and drug costs continue to skyrocket), sent deficits into the stratosphere, hire cronies to inefficiently run federal agencies, drive the economy and the US's reputation into a ditch, and destroy the Republican Party while he's at it.

Meanwhile, the evangelicals who held their nose in the hope he will outlaw abortion will be deeply disappointed, as even the most conservative SCOTUS won't overturn Roe / Hellerstedt any time soon.

Is that what his voters want? How fascinating.


Oh please yourself. You didn't post anything of substance, just more fear mongering and hysteria, combined with a hearty dose of sour grapes.

And if you were paying attention you'd see I referred to the entity of a political party, not their leaders. Meaning the DNC and the RNC. While it's certainly true that the Republican leadership is just as "elite" as the Democrats, the RNC decided not to interfere with the will of their voters. The DNC demonstrably did, as proven by Wikileaks, and it very well may have cost them a monumentally important election.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 13:08
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Love it how Hillary predicted that the glass ceiling will be shattered "sooner than we think".

Yes, by Ivanka Trump in 8 years!

Posted on: 2016/11/9 13:02
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Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
The basic function of a political party is to serve the will of its voters.

Not to use cheating, manipulation, and shady tactics to ensure the will of a handful of party "elites" (and their donors) is paramount, and the stupid voters will come in line eventually.

Republicans understood this. Democrats did not. The entirely undemocratic way the Democratic Party is run is a big factor in causing their loss.

Please.

The Republican political class is just as elite as the Democratic political class. That's one reason why so much of it fought Trump right down to the wire. Even today, they are hoping that he will be a sane human being, despite abundant evidence that will not be the case.

The Republican elite has spent decades catering to their wealthy donors and corporations, often at the expense of those who voted for Trump.

And while this was a notable electoral college victory, the popular vote was very close, with Clinton actually winning. A few thousand votes in a few swing states would have produced a Clinton presidency. This is not a resounding mandate for Trump's policies (whatever they are).

Trump rode a wave of anti-government, anti-minority, nativist populism that he barely understands, against a skilled but flawed candidate. The result is that we've elected a mendacious authoritarian to the Presidency, who is highly likely to terminate health insurance for millions (while premiums and drug costs continue to skyrocket), sent deficits into the stratosphere, hire cronies to inefficiently run federal agencies, drive the economy and the US's reputation into a ditch, and destroy the Republican Party while he's at it.

Meanwhile, the evangelicals who held their nose in the hope he will outlaw abortion will be deeply disappointed, as even the most conservative SCOTUS won't overturn Roe / Hellerstedt any time soon.

Is that what his voters want? How fascinating.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 12:47
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skinny wrote:
I love how the liberal media has to point out repeatedly that Trump's victory was because the uneducated white folk came out of their sheds to vote. And then they show a bearded redneck waving the flag.

Had Hillary won because the black and latino vote animated itself, would they show fat ghetto people waving the flag?

Does this benefit anyone? This is what our liberal media has devolved into.

Shame.


Last night, while watching the NBC News coverage, at some point Todd Chuck essentially copped to this (mainstream media has failed to understand and properly gauge resentment/anger of a large part of the population) and started to talk about how they needed to do better, only to be followed on the air by a few nincompoops doing the same fear-mongering all over again. First it was the "markets expert" proclaiming impending doom once the Dow and NASDAQ would open at 8 AM, and then it was some other guy spewing conspiracy theories about Russia having a lot of dirt on Trump that they will use soon. It got so crazy that even Lester Holt stepped in and told him he was speculating.

The media, and many here in JCLIST, derided Trump supporters as hicks, racists, uneducated, misogynists, etc, etc, etc. It seems like that has backfired by galvanizing those voters. Turnout for this election was record setting, increasing by about 5%, and I think those people (right or wrong) decided to show their displeasure by voting for Trump, or against Clinton.

Posted on: 2016/11/9 12:41
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