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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
I've seen and heard of stories repeatedly how many 2 bedroom apartments are being reconfigured to maximize tenant numbers -


To clarify, have you seen stories or apartments reconfigured to maximize tenant numbers?

I believe these stories are what my friend Rie Rie calls Bobby Monsters.

Posted on: 2015/6/5 17:13
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Wow. I don't check JC List for 24 hours and this happens. Rents aren't spiraling out of control, but this thread has. In the most awesome way possible! It doesn't matter what anybody says on this thread, because there's only ONE post that anyone will remember: Yvonne's gem stating that Puerto Ricans are immigrants and behind the tight housing market in Hoboken. She saw it firsthand! Yvonne, you are the gift that keeps on giving! I'm only shocked there was a discussion about immigration and Heights didn't weigh in with his usual xenophobic rants. Hmmmmm...Maybe Heights and Yvonne are the same person. Has anyone ever seen them on the same thread?

Posted on: 2015/6/5 13:07
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
bodhipooh, I truly feel sorry for you. You are incapable of having a discussion without attacking someone. I also feel sorry for the people who are in your inner circle. Life must be difficult for them, too.


What can I say Yvonne? Apparently, your God sees things differently, having blessed me with a great family and a solid group of friends. The only difficulty in my life is having to deal with ignorant idiots, such as yourself. I hear it gets easier/better over time, so I guess I will just keep biding my time.


One clear example of what's wrong with the US ed system - we let the village idiots teach our kids.


Yvonne is a product of the JC school system and she was a teacher.

Posted on: 2015/6/5 13:05
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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There is no doubt for some, that rent is spiraling out of control - I've seen and heard of stories repeatedly how many 2 bedroom apartments are being reconfigured to maximize tenant numbers - The standard thing that happens is that small single bedrooms are used as lounge / tv rooms and the open lounge / family room is filled with bunks beds ... often 4 to 5 sets of bunks are put in so you end up with a family of 3-4 living in the master bedroom and anywhere from 8-10 people sharing the rest of the apartment - It's actually quite lucrative for some that rent out 4 or 5 apartments in one building and yes its the 'luxury' apartments they are doing it in.

Posted on: 2015/6/5 8:23
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Yvonne wrote:
bodhipooh, I truly feel sorry for you. You are incapable of having a discussion without attacking someone. I also feel sorry for the people who are in your inner circle. Life must be difficult for them, too.


What can I say Yvonne? Apparently, your God sees things differently, having blessed me with a great family and a solid group of friends. The only difficulty in my life is having to deal with ignorant idiots, such as yourself. I hear it gets easier/better over time, so I guess I will just keep biding my time.


One clear example of what's wrong with the US ed system - we let the village idiots teach our kids.

Posted on: 2015/6/5 7:27
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Yvonne wrote:
But in the meantime more immigrants from Puerto Rico was arriving in Hoboken and I saw the housing market become tight.


OMG. The funniest thing I've read today. What a 'tard!
what an insane comment. puerto ricans are citizens of the US

Posted on: 2015/6/5 5:04
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Come on now, the reason why rents are going through the roof is because of the NYC real estate market, not immigrants. People want to live close to Manhattan and that's why rents jumped in DTJC and in turn all the new people moving into DTJC has meant jobs for the rest of city helping jack up the rents for everybody else. Also the never ending tax hikes, utilities hikes, insurances hikes, have also contributed to this.


Seriously...! People looking for conspiracies where there is none to be found. To claim that illegal immigration is somehow responsible for high rents is NONSENSE. Plainly, we live in a desirable area, which is undergoing a renaissance, and which is also in incredibly close (and, convenient) proximity to NYC (the #1 jobs region in the US!) and there are too many people with the means and willingness to come here, thereby pushing up the prices. It's quite simple, really. Rent is too damn high? Look elsewhere. That's life. Plain and simple.

Posted on: 2015/6/5 3:39
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Come on now, the reason why rents are going through the roof is because of the NYC real estate market, not immigrants. People want to live close to Manhattan and that's why rents jumped in DTJC and in turn all the new people moving into DTJC has meant jobs for the rest of city helping jack up the rents for everybody else. Also the never ending tax hikes, utilities hikes, insurances hikes, have also contributed to this.


Shhhhh! Sensible reality checks are no fun compared to watching the crazies and reactionaries dig themselves deep in doodoo.

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Posted on: 2015/6/5 3:13
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Come on now, the reason why rents are going through the roof is because of the NYC real estate market, not immigrants. People want to live close to Manhattan and that's why rents jumped in DTJC and in turn all the new people moving into DTJC has meant jobs for the rest of city helping jack up the rents for everybody else. Also the never ending tax hikes, utilities hikes, insurances hikes, have also contributed to this.

Posted on: 2015/6/5 2:57
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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dtjcview wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
...
I'm not talking about rents. Since this thread predictably got off topic I addressed your fallacy about H-1B workers.

And you are just wrong and have an outdated way of thinking. Read the article. Many of these employees are "true highly-skilled." They were helping the company generate profit. However, the company can generate even MORE profit by replacing you with an H-1B worker who gets paid half as much. And apparently they rely on you to train them before giving you the boot.


What fallacy? My point was H1 or not, rent would likely remain the same, and possibly decrease H1 versus US worker. What are you arguing?

And because it says in print someone is "highly skilled" - doesn't make it so. A trained code monkey is still a monkey. The fact they could be replaced with minimal training says to me they weren't "true highly skilled".


Your fallacy was in saying the reason US workers aren't getting those jobs is because they don't have the training. And if they did they could compete with the H-1B workers. Not true.

Yes, some tech companies lobby to increase the amount of H-1B visas given out because they claim there aren't enough workers with the training to fill the position. What they leave out is "at the low wages we want to pay." Rather than raise the wages they are willing to pay, these companies simply want to (and do) import workers here to do the jobs at half the cost.

As the article says: "The program has created a highly lucrative business model of bringing in cheaper H-1B workers to substitute for Americans,? said Ronil Hira, a professor of public policy at Howard University who studies visa programs and has testified before Congress about H-1B visas."

Again, we have gone off topic as I'm not talking about this impact on rents but it aggravates me to see people mindlessly spew out the same lies and nonsense that are used to justify the continued shifting of wealth to the very top.


There are an estimated 2.5 million open tech jobs in the US. The number of H1 visas (120k or so) issued each year is a drop in the bucket. Most people in tech jobs are extremely well rewarded. No tears from me on that.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 23:19
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Yvonne wrote:
But in the meantime more immigrants from Puerto Rico was arriving in Hoboken and I saw the housing market become tight.


OMG. The funniest thing I've read today. What a 'tard!

Posted on: 2015/6/4 23:14
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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JCMan8 wrote:
...
I'm not talking about rents. Since this thread predictably got off topic I addressed your fallacy about H-1B workers.

And you are just wrong and have an outdated way of thinking. Read the article. Many of these employees are "true highly-skilled." They were helping the company generate profit. However, the company can generate even MORE profit by replacing you with an H-1B worker who gets paid half as much. And apparently they rely on you to train them before giving you the boot.


What fallacy? My point was H1 or not, rent would likely remain the same, and possibly decrease H1 versus US worker. What are you arguing?

And because it says in print someone is "highly skilled" - doesn't make it so. A trained code monkey is still a monkey. The fact they could be replaced with minimal training says to me they weren't "true highly skilled".


Your fallacy was in saying the reason US workers aren't getting those jobs is because they don't have the training. And if they did they could compete with the H-1B workers. Not true.

Yes, some tech companies lobby to increase the amount of H-1B visas given out because they claim there aren't enough workers with the training to fill the position. What they leave out is "at the low wages we want to pay." Rather than raise the wages they are willing to pay, these companies simply want to (and do) import workers here to do the jobs at half the cost.

As the article says: "The program has created a highly lucrative business model of bringing in cheaper H-1B workers to substitute for Americans,? said Ronil Hira, a professor of public policy at Howard University who studies visa programs and has testified before Congress about H-1B visas."

Again, we have gone off topic as I'm not talking about this impact on rents but it aggravates me to see people mindlessly spew out the same lies and nonsense that are used to justify the continued shifting of wealth to the very top.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 23:04
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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JCMan8 wrote:
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I'm not talking about rents. Since this thread predictably got off topic I addressed your fallacy about H-1B workers.

And you are just wrong and have an outdated way of thinking. Read the article. Many of these employees are "true highly-skilled." They were helping the company generate profit. However, the company can generate even MORE profit by replacing you with an H-1B worker who gets paid half as much. And apparently they rely on you to train them before giving you the boot.


What fallacy? My point was H1 or not, rent would likely remain the same, and possibly decrease H1 versus US worker. What are you arguing?

And because it says in print someone is "highly skilled" - doesn't make it so. A trained code monkey is still a monkey. The fact they could be replaced with minimal training says to me they weren't "true highly skilled".

Posted on: 2015/6/4 22:44
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Perhaps. Or perhaps if US workers were better trained they'd compete for the same jobs H1 workers now get - with the same net impact to real estate.



Objectively untrue, as proven by Disney. The NYT article Yvonne posted is actually very good.

Basically, 250 high skilled Disney workers who "kept the data systems humming" were laid off and replaced with cheaper Indian H-1B workers (yes, the article says they are all Indian).

Apparently they had been very productive, with several employees receiving glowing performance reviews raving about how much money they were saving the company. When they got called into HR, some of them thought they'd be receiving a bonus, instead of being replaced.

Even worse, Disney offered all laid off employees a severance bonus consisting of 10% of their salary but conditioned this on having the workers spend three months to train their replacements.

So you should correct your comment to follow what is actually happening: "Or if US workers were better trained they'd be granted the privilege of training their far cheaper H-1B replacements."


If anything, that would drive rents down.

The value proposition of outsourcing like that is to move substantial operations overseas. That whole shift happened a decade ago in more leading edge industries - and the jobs lost were the less skilled ones. If you're not helping a company generate profit - you're an expense that can and will be trimmed. Like it or not, that's business. A true highly-skilled tech worker will have zero problem finding employment.


I'm not talking about rents. Since this thread predictably got off topic I addressed your fallacy about H-1B workers.

And you are just wrong and have an outdated way of thinking. Read the article. Many of these employees are "true highly-skilled." They were helping the company generate profit. However, the company can generate even MORE profit by replacing you with an H-1B worker who gets paid half as much. And apparently they rely on you to train them before giving you the boot.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 22:26
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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dtjcview wrote:
Perhaps. Or perhaps if US workers were better trained they'd compete for the same jobs H1 workers now get - with the same net impact to real estate.



Objectively untrue, as proven by Disney. The NYT article Yvonne posted is actually very good.

Basically, 250 high skilled Disney workers who "kept the data systems humming" were laid off and replaced with cheaper Indian H-1B workers (yes, the article says they are all Indian).

Apparently they had been very productive, with several employees receiving glowing performance reviews raving about how much money they were saving the company. When they got called into HR, some of them thought they'd be receiving a bonus, instead of being replaced.

Even worse, Disney offered all laid off employees a severance bonus consisting of 10% of their salary but conditioned this on having the workers spend three months to train their replacements.

So you should correct your comment to follow what is actually happening: "Or if US workers were better trained they'd be granted the privilege of training their far cheaper H-1B replacements."


If anything, that would drive rents down.

The value proposition of outsourcing like that is to move substantial operations overseas. That whole shift happened a decade ago in more leading edge industries - and the jobs lost were the less skilled ones. If you're not helping a company generate profit - you're an expense that can and will be trimmed. Like it or not, that's business. A true highly-skilled tech worker will have zero problem finding employment.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 22:03
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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dtjcview wrote:
Perhaps. Or perhaps if US workers were better trained they'd compete for the same jobs H1 workers now get - with the same net impact to real estate.



Objectively untrue, as proven by Disney, and a growing list of companies. The NYT article Yvonne posted is actually very good.

Basically, 250 high skilled Disney workers who "kept the data systems humming" were laid off and replaced with cheaper Indian H-1B workers (yes, the article says they are all Indian).

Apparently they had been very productive, with several employees receiving glowing performance reviews raving about how much money they were saving the company. When they got called into HR, some of them thought they'd be receiving a bonus, instead of being replaced.

Even worse, Disney offered all laid off employees a severance bonus consisting of 10% of their salary but conditioned this on having the workers spend three months to train their replacements.

So you should correct your comment to follow what is actually happening: "Or if US workers were better trained they'd be granted the privilege of training their far cheaper H-1B replacements."

Posted on: 2015/6/4 21:45
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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It's likely to be a complex array of factors but at least some of the increase in rents could be due to legal immigration. A lot of foreign money has gone into Manhattan real estate, increasing prices and ?driving? people to surrounding areas.
...


Perhaps. Or perhaps if US workers were better trained they'd compete for the same jobs H1 workers now get - with the same net impact to real estate.

On a side note, I like the idea behind the TechHire initiative: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-o ... s-new-techhire-initiative

Hopefully it won't end up as broken as much of the existing education system.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 21:38
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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CatDog wrote:
Rents aren't going up because of a few illegal immigrants. What a dumb idea. Rents are going up because wealthy people move into neighborhoods and drive rents up.

Rents are also going up because taxes and utility prices are going up, and those are going up because our local and state governments are completely inept and corrupt. It's because of things like the state spending $15 million to build two ugly concrete walls in LSP. Or Newark's water dept manager siphoning off millions of dollars over the years. Or JC's Buildings Dept's shakedowns that lead to higher building costs. Or the $3 billion this state spends on public pensions alone. or all the tax abatements given out to millionaire and billionaire developers.

NJ has an $7.5 billion budget deficit! Our property taxes are the highest in the nation and bound to go even higher due to this deficit, and rents will follow. It's not due to some illegal immigrants working for $5 an hour.


Agreed Cat, it's a complex issue. It's likely to be a complex array of factors but at least some of the increase in rents could be due to legal immigration. A lot of foreign money has gone into Manhattan real estate, increasing prices and ?driving? people to surrounding areas. The NYT ran a series recently about the number of foreign buyers. Additionally, code requirements have become more stringent and expensive over the years. For example, a gut rehab of a three- or four- family brownstone now triggers a requirement for installation of a sprinkler system. It's expensive to do that, so many small building are converted to 2-family, resulting in the loss of older and often more-affordable apartments.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 21:24
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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The US has a declining birth rate without immigrants. You know that a declining birth rate is a death sentence for the economy in the long run, right? We need immigrants to grow



No. Longer. True. If there's any lesson of the last 15 years it's the disconnect between employment, productivity and growth. Heard about "reshoring"? Companies moving production back to the US from low wage countries. Because with automation they can produce it cheaper here, but with a tenth the workforce they previously used. We have excess population that will be flipping burgers for each other.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 21:02
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
The US has a declining birth rate without immigrants. You know that a declining birth rate is a death sentence for the economy in the long run, right? We need immigrants to grow


While it is off the topic, declining birth rates had nothing to do with laying off Disney workers and hiring Indian workers.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 20:06
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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The US has a declining birth rate without immigrants. You know that a declining birth rate is a death sentence for the economy in the long run, right? We need immigrants to grow

Posted on: 2015/6/4 20:01
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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I never backpedaled on any comments. I suggest people get copies of the Hudson Dispatch if it is not in the downtown library then I suggest the Union City library. There was a story about industry building housing for workers they encouraged to move to Hoboken from Puerto Rico. If we can use H-1B visas to hire overseas Indian workers and then layoff American workers as they did in Disney, what is so unusual about factories providing housing for workers?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/ ... gn-replacements.html?_r=1

Posted on: 2015/6/4 19:39
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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JCMan8 wrote:

To me it is more evidence both parties are completely bought and paid for, and the 1% (or .1%) completely control the system, economically.


+1 So true, sadly.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 18:47
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Monroe wrote:
There has been wage regression under both of Obama's terms as POTUS, although the DOW and Wall Street are at record highs. The 1% are doing much better under Obama than before he came into office.


And this is supposed to be evidence that things would have been different under a Republican president?

To me it is more evidence both parties are completely bought and paid for, and the 1% (or .1%) completely control the system, economically.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 18:42
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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There has been wage regression under both of Obama's terms as POTUS, although the DOW and Wall Street are at record highs. The 1% are doing much better under Obama than before he came into office.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 18:39
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Monroe wrote:
Nonsense about illegal aliens not getting public assistance. An illegal alien with, say, 3 kids in a Jersey City school is stealing over $60,000/year from JC and NJ taxpayers. Throw in free lunches, preK, and it's more. All money being stolen from our kids and wallets.


The law requires all public schools to take the children of illegal aliens, which is a problem, I get that.

But how, exactly, are children of illegal aliens qualifying for free lunches and free pre-K? There are forms to fill out for that and your status as a citizen or resident alien has to be verified. Unless the people processing those forms are slacking and not doing the proper verifications.

Better still, go to this link, and read the myth about illegal aliens not paying taxes but still getting government benefits.

http://www.tolerance.org/immigration-myths

Most importantly, illegals who rent apartments in Jersey City or anywhere else are ultimately contributing to the property tax base, which is the main source of funding for our schools.

Thanks for sharing the link, although I don't expect it to change many minds (or hearts).

IMO, the illegal immigrant issue is the straw man in the discussion on the problem of affordable housing. Conservatives in particular like to make it because it draws attention away from the underlying problems, including the demonstrable lack of wage growth for working and middle class families over the last 40 years; and our nation's regressive system of taxation http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/On- ... ax-policy-favors-the-rich. You simply cannot discuss the problem of rent being excessively high (for an increasing population of working people) without looking into how and why the economy is failing people. I think we need to take seriously the point of the ever increasing wealth gap, noted by JCMan8 - which means declining economic opportunities for the other 47 to 99% - as well as the ever increasing expenses, noted by Yvonne - at some point, too many people simply don't have enough to live on.

At the end of the day, the federal government will probably have to re-take responsibility for this, and that will probably necessitate a more progressive system for raising revenue to solve the problem.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 17:57
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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I think it's so unfair to blame everything on "illegal immigrants".

For those who "truly" believe in this government propaganda, they should really wake up and smell the roses - there are a lot more issues that all contribute to our society as the way it is. One cannot point at one and said "that's it".



Posted on: 2015/6/4 17:51
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
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Rents aren't going up because of a few illegal immigrants. What a dumb idea. Rents are going up because wealthy people move into neighborhoods and drive rents up.

Rents are also going up because taxes and utility prices are going up, and those are going up because our local and state governments are completely inept and corrupt. It's because of things like the state spending $15 million to build two ugly concrete walls in LSP. Or Newark's water dept manager siphoning off millions of dollars over the years. Or JC's Buildings Dept's shakedowns that lead to higher building costs. Or the $3 billion this state spends on public pensions alone. or all the tax abatements given out to millionaire and billionaire developers.

NJ has an $7.5 billion budget deficit! Our property taxes are the highest in the nation and bound to go even higher due to this deficit, and rents will follow. It's not due to some illegal immigrants working for $5 an hour.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 17:46
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
#45
Home away from home
Home away from home


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There's always going to be someone with more money who is willing to buy what you have. Landlords are in the business to make money, tenants are just a by-product of that.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 17:43
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Re: Rent is spiraling out of control
#44
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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Ahhh, I love watching Yvonne backpedal on her xenophobic comments. Just admit it Yvonne, you want Mayberry on the Hudson. This thread is comical, really. Illegal immigrants driving up rental prices? It was a fun right wing circle jerk for the first dozen or so posts until the reality check. User111, though I often disagree with him, nailed it here: It's white yuppies, hipsters, and recent NYC transplants (of which I fit into at least one of those categories) driving up rental prices. End of story.

Posted on: 2015/6/4 17:41
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