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Re: The PATH is racist?
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CdeCoincy wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
The Hoboken routes get 1 train for every 2 Jersey City trains, whether its the 33rd Street line or World Trade Center line (pre-Sandy). Until the signal system is upgraded and the trains can run closer together, there simply isn't a way to balance frequency on the Hoboken lines and additional trains on the Jersey City routes.

If the ARC tunnel had been completed, many of the trains would be rerouted from Hoboken to midtown directly, meaning fewer passengers transferring to the PATH in Hoboken. But its not, so deal with it.


If the 1 to 2 scheduling is in effect than if I miss a JSQ train at 9th Street there is a 50-50 chance that the next one will be a JSQ train? Does that really happen - not to me.

I wouldn't put it past PATH to never have adjusted the Hoboken schedule after about half the M&E trains started going to midtown directly. Just being cynical.


The rush hour pattern is:

1 JSQ train
1 HOB train
1 JSQ train
pause and repeat.

The duration of this however is only for the trains in the middle of the 8 o'clock hour in the morning commute and 5 o'clock hour at night, which maybe speaks to a larger problem of the PATH -- simply shorting the rush hour schedule.



Posted on: 2013/1/14 11:04
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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ianmac47 wrote:
The Hoboken routes get 1 train for every 2 Jersey City trains, whether its the 33rd Street line or World Trade Center line (pre-Sandy). Until the signal system is upgraded and the trains can run closer together, there simply isn't a way to balance frequency on the Hoboken lines and additional trains on the Jersey City routes.

If the ARC tunnel had been completed, many of the trains would be rerouted from Hoboken to midtown directly, meaning fewer passengers transferring to the PATH in Hoboken. But its not, so deal with it.


If the 1 to 2 scheduling is in effect than if I miss a JSQ train at 9th Street there is a 50-50 chance that the next one will be a JSQ train? Does that really happen - not to me.

I wouldn't put it past PATH to never have adjusted the Hoboken schedule after about half the M&E trains started going to midtown directly. Just being cynical.

Posted on: 2013/1/14 10:30
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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The Hoboken routes get 1 train for every 2 Jersey City trains, whether its the 33rd Street line or World Trade Center line (pre-Sandy). Until the signal system is upgraded and the trains can run closer together, there simply isn't a way to balance frequency on the Hoboken lines and additional trains on the Jersey City routes.

If the ARC tunnel had been completed, many of the trains would be rerouted from Hoboken to midtown directly, meaning fewer passengers transferring to the PATH in Hoboken. But its not, so deal with it.


Posted on: 2013/1/14 10:03
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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A point from the start of this thread which has been buried is that the Hoboken trains are less crowded than the Jersey City trains. Weather or not this is due to institutional racism I can not say but I will say that any neutral observer watching the N.J. bound trains in New York would note that the Jersey City trains are always crowded and that the Hoboken trains are seldom crowded. We have all seen nearly empty Hoboken trains pull into a station with thirty empty seats in each car and it may have caused us to hope that the next train, a Jersey City train, would also have empty seats but this is never the case and the Jersey City trains always seam to pull into the station with barely any standing room, or none at all. Some people on this thread are claiming there are too many people destined for Jersey City due to development. They ignore the fact of the empty seats on the Hoboken trains. Why PATH wont reshuffle the destinations when there is a clear disparity in ridership is an issue I would like to see them explain, perhaps then they will also address the racism accusation.

Posted on: 2013/1/14 9:41
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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heights wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
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Dahood wrote:
Cannot blame the PATH for the unplanned and excessive development that has happened in downtown JC.

And your standard of excessive is....?
I would argue there has been not enough development in dtjc. The PAD, parts of newport, liberty harbor are all either at early or not yet started stages of development.
The PATH needs to keep up or gtfo. So yes, I can blame the PATH and many do.

You can only build so far, you can't fit a square peg in a round hole. The tunnels are only so wide and tall, and the ststions are only so long. This is the only room or space you will get. Unfortunately on the outside of the stations they are building more and more, higher and higher. Time to dig another tunnel then.


DTJC could use a lot more development. The blighted areas like I mentioned in my prior post - especially in Journal Square and the PAD are in desperate need of help. This is not just a transportation problem.

If there were more jobs in JC then maybe people wouldn't have to worry so much about the tunnels and PATH?

Maybe if our governor had common sense and didn't derail the arc tunnel, we would have the needed infrastructure.

Maybe if we actually focused on courting businesses into DTJC then the jobs would appear.

Maybe if taxes were lower here, people would want to open businesses.

Maybe if there wasn't a 99 cent store on every street, people would open a business here and INVEST in the community.

maybe..

Posted on: 2013/1/14 8:56
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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vindication15 wrote:
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Dahood wrote:
Cannot blame the PATH for the unplanned and excessive development that has happened in downtown JC.

And your standard of excessive is....?
I would argue there has been not enough development in dtjc. The PAD, parts of newport, liberty harbor are all either at early or not yet started stages of development.
The PATH needs to keep up or gtfo. So yes, I can blame the PATH and many do.

You can only build so far, you can't fit a square peg in a round hole. The tunnels are only so wide and tall, and the ststions are only so long. This is the only room or space you will get. Unfortunately on the outside of the stations they are building more and more, higher and higher. Time to dig another tunnel then.

Posted on: 2013/1/14 7:06
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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Dahood wrote:
Cannot blame the PATH for the unplanned and excessive development that has happened in downtown JC.


And your standard of excessive is....?

I would argue there has been not enough development in dtjc. The PAD, parts of newport, liberty harbor are all either at early or not yet started stages of development.

The PATH needs to keep up or gtfo. So yes, I can blame the PATH and many do.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 23:35
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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Again, it seems like a convenient load of BS.


Yeah! Load of crap, I say.


Cool link from 2006 bro. and way to miss the point, which i'll spell out for you, as you don't seem to be able to add 2 and 2 together.

Path trains being "the most targeted in the country" (probable lie) and removing the trash cans completely have nothing to do with each other. One is an excuse for the other.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 22:14
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Cannot blame the PATH for the unplanned and excessive development that has happened in downtown JC.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 21:21
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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If we get a new mayor this year, one of the best ways for him to keep the job would be a drastic change in approach to the trash issue. Treat it like an investment -- more money will flow into the city if it looks nicer, and people will think of the Healy era as the bad old days when the corner trash cans were always overflowing by Sunday afternoon.


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ianmac47 wrote:
There are no trash cans because it saves money not to empty trash cans. This is the same reason there are so few trash cans in around Jersey City: officials are more interested in saving money than cleanliness.

Journal Square smells like garbage because a trail hauling garbage on the fright tracks often ends up sitting on that section of track waiting for signals. It gets worse in the summer.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 18:45
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The other day I overheard a (white) guy tell a coworker on the train to JSQ that he once asked a PATH conductor why the Hoboken trains were always less full than the JSQ trains. The response from the conductor? "Because white people live in Hoboken."
P.S. Why can't we have trash cans on PATH stations? And
why do they think it is acceptable for the JSQ station to smell like garbage?

I don't see the connection of why the Hoboken is less full because of a demographic ? Something is missing from the story especially coming from a third party. What day of the week was this, what time of year, was it disaster related ?
Also trash cans act as reservoirs for decedent materials thus enhancing terrorism.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 18:15
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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corybraiterman wrote:

Again, it seems like a convenient load of BS.


Yeah! Load of crap, I say.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 18:04
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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There are no trash cans because it saves money not to empty trash cans. This is the same reason there are so few trash cans in around Jersey City: officials are more interested in saving money than cleanliness.

Journal Square smells like garbage because a trail hauling garbage on the fright tracks often ends up sitting on that section of track waiting for signals. It gets worse in the summer.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 17:40
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P.S. Why can't we have trash cans on PATH stations? And why do they think it is acceptable for the JSQ station to smell like garbage?


A couple years ago I participated in the path community meetings. They set up a once/week meeting for 4 weeks and we got to hear what they had to say, inspect the train yards and air grievances (to pretty much standard BS answers).

I asked that very question and was told "because they're an easy place for terrorists to put an explosive device in." When I responded that NYC, DC, Disney World, Boston, Atlanta, etc. all have trash cans on the station platforms, I was told "the path train is the most targeted mass transit system in the country".

Again, it seems like a convenient load of BS to justify not having to pay someone to haul trash.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 17:32
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Re: The PATH is racist?
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I lived in New England for a while and many public places (parks, rest stops, transit stations) have few or no trash cans. Signs tell you to carry your trash with you. It's either to save money or because they've found that fewer trash cans = less trash.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 17:24
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I am new here. I have lived in the Journal Square area for more than 5 years. I take the PATH everyday for work in Manhattan. I have come to get something off my chest.

The other day I overheard a (white) guy tell a coworker on the train to JSQ that he once asked a PATH conductor why the Hoboken trains were always less full than the JSQ trains. The response from the conductor? "Because white people live in Hoboken."

I prefer to believe that is not the true reason. But, empirically speaking, more people take the JSQ line than the Hoboken line, and there should be more frequent trains in the JSQ line in order to keep up with the additional passengers in a proportional manner.

Am I the only one who thinks so?

P.S. Why can't we have trash cans on PATH stations? And why do they think it is acceptable for the JSQ station to smell like garbage?


same number of trains to JSQ and HOB, because that's how the system was (poorly) designed. way more people - of all races - take the JSQ train.

studies show that the absence of trash cans actually results in less trash in stations and on tracks. MTA is testing this theory at a growing number of stations.

there's a conrail (?) trash-hauling train that often parks near JSQ for days at a time. why the city tolerates this is beyond comprehension.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 17:17
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Maybe the PATH employee was black. I overhear racist comments coming from whites, blacks and on and on all the time. Life is hard. About the trains? You can only send so many trains into the system at one time. If the station at 33rd was a loop or had many more sidetracks then you could increase service. Until those billions are spent we will have inadequate service.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 17:08
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White people live in JC too, so clearly the conductor's theory has holes in it.

Posted on: 2013/1/13 17:08
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I am new here. I have lived in the Journal Square area for more than 5 years. I take the PATH everyday for work in Manhattan. I have come to get something off my chest.

The other day I overheard a (white) guy tell a coworker on the train to JSQ that he once asked a PATH conductor why the Hoboken trains were always less full than the JSQ trains. The response from the conductor? "Because white people live in Hoboken."

I prefer to believe that is not the true reason. But, empirically speaking, more people take the JSQ line than the Hoboken line, and there should be more frequent trains in the JSQ line in order to keep up with the additional passengers in a proportional manner.

Am I the only one who thinks so?

P.S. Why can't we have trash cans on PATH stations? And why do they think it is acceptable for the JSQ station to smell like garbage?

Posted on: 2013/1/13 16:39
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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vindication15 wrote:
Instead of "Thank you for riding the PATH" led lights, they should have "Sorry that you have chosen to ride the PATH"

I think the humor will actually help.



Haha! I agree! Not to mention what a WASTE of money. What are the point of those?!?! There are already TV's installed that scroll important information about PATH. Not like the LED signs would help anyway considering PATH is never on time and always experiencing SOME sort of problem.

Posted on: 2013/1/10 17:32
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On_The_3rd wrote:
This alert is confusing. It would indicate that the only line running 24/7 is the NWK-33rd (via HOB) on the weekends. Is that correct?

Yes

No.
It is confusing, but states that regular service will be from 10am - 5pm weekdays, then the overnight weeknights - AND all-day weekends - will be 33rd - Newark via Hoboken.
No service to Exchange Place or WTC overnights or weekends.

It makes sense, think of it as the normal 24/7weekend JSQ-33rd via HOB extended to Newark

Posted on: 2013/1/9 12:42
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On_The_3rd wrote:
This alert is confusing. It would indicate that the only line running 24/7 is the NWK-33rd (via HOB) on the weekends. Is that correct?


Yes


No.

It is confusing, but states that regular service will be from 10am - 5pm weekdays, then the overnight weeknights - AND all-day weekends - will be 33rd - Newark via Hoboken.

No service to Exchange Place or WTC overnights or weekends.

Posted on: 2013/1/9 12:14
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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On_The_3rd wrote:
This alert is confusing. It would indicate that the only line running 24/7 is the NWK-33rd (via HOB) on the weekends. Is that correct?


Yes

Posted on: 2013/1/9 12:07
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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This alert is confusing. It would indicate that the only line running 24/7 is the NWK-33rd (via HOB) on the weekends. Is that correct?

Posted on: 2013/1/9 12:02
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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SRhia wrote:
Does anyone know what about the weekend? Specially, I'm wondering about the JSQ to WTC on the weekend. Is that back, or still only NWK / JSQ to 33rd only for weekend?

From PATH Alerts: 24/7 service restored. M-F 5a-10p: HOB-33, JSQ-33, NWK-WTC. M-F 10p-5a, all day Sat/Sun: NWK-33 (via HOB). No ExPl/WTC Sat/Sun.


Posted on: 2013/1/9 11:28
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Does anyone know what about the weekend? Specially, I'm wondering about the JSQ to WTC on the weekend. Is that back, or still only NWK / JSQ to 33rd only for weekend?

Posted on: 2013/1/9 11:27
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Does anyone know whether the schedule on the website is accurate?

Posted on: 2013/1/9 11:11
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Posted on: 2013/1/9 11:01
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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I'll believe it when someone here says they've taken it - but we can hope!

Posted on: 2013/1/9 10:58
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Lots of people are too young or to new to remember when weekend service from 7 to 7 ran a normal midday weekday schedule with direct JSQ to 33rd, Hoboken to WTC, Hoboken to 33rd Service. But you know, incremental cut backs are accepted and then they can make it worse again.

Posted on: 2013/1/9 10:50
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