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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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I wonder if they even allow this to be voted on tues.night.
Remember the meeting has been moved up a day because of the holiday.

Posted on: 2007/9/8 23:16
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Posted on: 2007/9/8 12:13
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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If reforms fail in the City Council is there a means to put them on the ballot?

Posted on: 2007/9/8 11:18
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Someone should get a copy and post it online.

Posted on: 2007/9/8 9:34
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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the message sent by this certainly reasonates!

the opposition we will see to these initiatives will go a long way to explaining why people are spending $100,000 to $300,000 to get elected to a "part time" council position paying less then $30k a year.

I am looking forward to reading/seeing the proposed ordinances and how it deals with municipal employees like policemen, teachers etc.. - how would this impact other rising politicians such as Sean Connors and Fulop's new ally, James Carroll who I believe are police officers and how will it work in reverse for people like County Freeholder Dublin who works for the city.

also glad it shines some light on city lobbyists.... I have been told that there only three registered lobbyists with the city, yet former Councilman Robert Cavanaugh appeared attached to the Mayor's hip all last summer while working for the AMB trucking warehouse effort to rezone the PJP site.

edited ----------- this should be a hell of a council meeting, for even more fireworks go the council caucus meeting the Monday prior.

Quote:

mrrogers wrote:
Sometimes you just have to call them out even if you can't win.
The councilmen are gnashing their teeth over having to vote on this because they know their on the wrong side of the issue.

I can't wait to see the lame excuses they come up with for voting no.Bill Gaughan who is the biggest offender will probably
fein outrage and indignation at even being questioned on his
ethical behavior.Meanwhile he has two jobs and two cars one of which he lets his family use,plus he has family on the payroll.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 21:24

Edited by DanL on 2007/9/7 22:22:50
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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According to the dictionary, propaganda is "the systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause." I don't see the exaggeration in my words: it is systematic, it it reflects the interests and the views of SF's supporters.
Incidentally, the views that are reflected in this article are not "it's good to have councilmen stop getting second jobs in the local government". Was there any discussion meant or expected? Even I am not discussing the idea, I can't see anything wrong with it. Is there anybody contesting this?
It would be fairer to admit that unless I wrote something, this thread was going to rot unattended. OK, so SF says it's good to be good, it's nice to be honest, we prefer nice weather to hurricanes, and so on. these are platitudes in the first place, and, secondly, apparently voters don't care too much about them. The idea that transpires from this is "everybody, see, SF is better than all other councilmen taken together", which is hardly any news for the JCDT list readers. Most of us got the idea, that's why there was almost zero discussion to anything he said or did in the last century.
I know the list is not tailored for my personal interests, but I believe it is not made either for the supporters of a councilman, with an attitude of a boy band fan group. It's not that I don't want it to be, it's just that almost nobody cares about this kind of stories, and I just bothered to let you know.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 21:08
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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All this highlights is that these high paying first, second and even third jobs are over-rated and need only a part-time commitment and an associated income.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 20:53
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

JSQ wrote:
I don't know too much about local politics.


Clearly this it the case. Perhaps you should consider this before commenting on the merits of a popular local political figure. And if you can't figure out why the Downtown JC councilman is often discussed on Downtown JCList, I can't help you.


I don't think any of us can. As I read JSQ's post I had to wonder if the words DOWNTOWN JC List were perhaps misleading in some way and the fact that we are discussing our Councilman is somehow out of line...

Gina

Posted on: 2007/9/7 20:41
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Mr. Fulop is of course correct.
And besides, a high majority of people can't
do one job well; how should they be able to
perform the work of two jobs adequately?

........................................................................................


Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
Wednesday, September 05, 2007
By KEN THORBOURNE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

On the same day Gov. Jon Corzine signed a law banning dual office-holding for state legislators, Jersey City Councilman Steve Fulop yesterday announced he's seeking to up the ante locally by making it against ethics rules to hold both a county and city post.

That proposal - one of a plethora of standards Fulop wants the city's Ethical Standard Board to adopt - would apply to five of his colleagues on the nine-member City Council.

Another provision barring employees working for a "city-linked autonomous agency" from serving on the council would knock a sixth colleague, Ward B Councilwoman Mary Spinello, out of the box. Spinello is a supervisor at the Jersey City Incinerator Authority.

Not shy about highlighting what he considers conflicts of interests among his fellow council members, Fulop said he planned to have his resolution introduced at next week's City Council meeting.

Having had a pay-to-play bill swatted down by a 6-2-1 vote in January, Fulop, a Citigroup trader, knows he's in for a fight. But it's worth it, he said.

"I'm committed and I'm fairly certain we'll have this accomplished by the end of my first term (May, 2009)," Fulop said during an editorial board meeting at The Jersey Journal. "This would be the strictest standards in the state."

Council members Viola Richardson, Bill Gaughan, Peter Brennan, Willie Flood and Mariano Vega all hold county jobs.

For his colleagues, the ban would kick in when they next run for re-election, Fulop said.

And "one salary, one pension" on the council isn't the only goal. Fulop wants stricter rules preventing the personal use of city cars, the hiring of relatives, and city officials becoming lobbyists when they leave office.

Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy and at least two of Fulop's colleagues weren't impressed.

"The nine members of the Jersey City municipal council work on a part-time basis and make less than $30,000 a year," said Healy. "This requires they work an additional job."

Gaughan, who doubles as chief of staff for Hudson County Executive Thomas DeGise, called Fulop "a guy who wants to run for mayor, grandstanding by way of the City Council," and pointed out the late Jersey City mayor Glenn D. Cunningham failed in court when he tried to bar Gaughan from the council for exactly the same issues Fulop is raising.

Fulop denied he plans to run for mayor.

Gaughan acknowledged he drives a city car and uses it occasionally for personal use. But he said he reports part of the value of the automobile as income on his income taxes.

City Council President Mariano Vega, the county's director of parks, engineering and planning, said Fulop was "barking up a dead tree," adding holding two posts helps him see "how one position complements another."

Posted on: 2007/9/7 20:34
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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So, naturally, I should be shielded from his propaganda as much as I am protecting myself from restaurants' advertising.


I didn't know my personal opinion was promoted to the title of "propaganda"; i'm more powerful than i thought!

Quote:

My favcouncilman? I am less worried about an individual councilman than I am about an individual cop, or than about what is happening in Belgium. I don't know too much about local politics.


then kwicherbichin'! i didn't realize that this board should only pander to YOUR interests. perhaps your utter lack of understanding of the link between local politics and your recalcitrant "grievances" should hit you upside the head

Quote:

The second reason is that I don't have the right to vote.


so you can't take an active role in local politics? if you're eligible, then register for cryin' out loud! If you're not, like a good friend of mine, then volunteer for the campaigns of potential councilmembers, mayors, etc., in order to make an effort to change things, or join a group of activists who are working for a local cause you agree with.

Otherwise, just admit you don't care and, if you don't care, you can't complain.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 19:54
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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JSQ wrote:
I don't know too much about local politics.


Clearly this it the case. Perhaps you should consider this before commenting on the merits of a popular local political figure. And if you can't figure out why the Downtown JC councilman is often discussed on Downtown JCList, I can't help you.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 15:35
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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sinik wrote:


Maybe they don't have any useful experience or qualifications that would allow them to do any other kind of job.


Oh, I'm sure there are many entry level positions that would take a chance on them, given adequate supervision and extended probationary periods.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 12:25
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Given the recent arrests of corrupt pols in NJ I think Steve is ahead of the curve on this issue. Council members that vote no are inviting public and federal scrutiny. They better be damn sure they have nothing to hide.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 3:39
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

JSQ wrote:
As usually, I am proud of Fulop too. So somebody passes a law and he says he would do something like that or even tougher, except he has almost no power. That is news!
.. and of course he is planning to become a governor or US senator or similar, you can't spend that much only to become JC mayor...


You say little that's positive, ever. You relentlessly bash Councilman Fulop's repeated efforts to show voters how we can have a responsible government without conflicts of interest.

JSQ, why don't you tell us who's YOUR personal favorite JC councilperson and why. Spare no details please about what they've done or tried to do for JC.


It's not "relentlessly".. This is precisely the second discussion where I say something about him at all.

Some of the personae of this website though do seem to preach relentlessly this person.
I visit this website for a few reasons:
1. to hunt for some tips on like how would you go on a cab on this town, or how late can you to get safe from Communipaw to Montgomery
2. to read GrovePath's stuff from the JJ
3. to get the "temperature" of some of the neighbours, like in the discussion about Hinduport, where you can almost count those with definitive opinions
4. sometimes, to vent.
None of this has anything to do with Fulop. So, naturally, I should be shielded from his propaganda as much as I am protecting myself from restaurants' advertising.
But his name pops up in all the sections of the board, and I expect to see him even in the ads about belly dancing classes. Like somebody said the the board became the JJ, only that actually the "JCD board" should be renamed "SF board".

My favcouncilman? I am less worried about an individual councilman than I am about an individual cop, or than about what is happening in Belgium.

I don't know too much about local politics.
I suspect that, as long as my grievances (like less aggressive panhandlers, less pissing on the streets, less minority young fellows yelling at me in the bus stop just for the sake of it etc.) remain unsolved, local politicians probably have big problems. But I expect that these issues be solved rather by cops and street cleaners, who can do their job even under bad administration, if they would want to. That's the first reason I don't care about politicians in themselves, and I rather feel sick when I see so much propaganda.
The second reason is that I don't have the right to vote.

What I do know though is that Fulop is one of the 9 councilmen and -women, so his powers are extremely limited.
... And what I see about him is not that downtown is better because he is there. (If he wold be such a good manager, he could stand in elections for West Side, instead of targeting what I said he is targeting)
... and I also see the he is very internet savvy: he has a wikipedia page (way longer than my boss, who is a worldwide celebrity in his/her field), he has an account here.
That's fine, but some don't care, and some can get sick of it.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 2:19
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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mrrogers wrote:
He left out the part about them not having to show up for the other job.People don't realize that a mayor from North Bergen can have more influence over our council then we do.How?

lets say north bergen wants to hook into our sewer system
(which they have) and lets say they only want to pay 8 million
for but its really worth 25 million.Since the mayor of North Bergen is Running the County Govt.He can put Pressure on our
councilmen to get this scheme approved.He holds their paychecks in his hand.Six of the nine are on the county payroll.


That is just frikin wonderfull...these people have no shame. I wish that the voters would wake the hell up and vote these creeps out of office.

Gina

Posted on: 2007/9/7 2:12
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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He left out the part about them not having to show up for the other job.People don't realize that a mayor from North Bergen can have more influence over our council then we do.How?

lets say north bergen wants to hook into our sewer system
(which they have) and lets say they only want to pay 8 million
for but its really worth 25 million.Since the mayor of North Bergen is Running the County Govt.He can put Pressure on our
councilmen to get this scheme approved.He holds their paychecks in his hand.Six of the nine are on the county payroll.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 0:50
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Quote:

bolew wrote:
"The nine members of the Jersey City municipal council work on a part-time basis and make less than $30,000 a year," said Healy. "This requires they work an additional job."

Um, so I guess it's impossible that the other job be a non-governmental one? Perish the thought!


Maybe they don't have any useful experience or qualifications that would allow them to do any other kind of job.

Posted on: 2007/9/7 0:03
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Quote:

JSQ wrote:
As usually, I am proud of Fulop too. So somebody passes a law and he says he would do something like that or even tougher, except he has almost no power. That is news!
.. and of course he is planning to become a governor or US senator or similar, you can't spend that much only to become JC mayor...


You say little that's positive, ever. You relentlessly bash Councilman Fulop's repeated efforts to show voters how we can have a responsible government without conflicts of interest.

JSQ, why don't you tell us who's YOUR personal favorite JC councilperson and why. Spare no details please about what they've done or tried to do for JC.

Posted on: 2007/9/6 23:09
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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As usually, I am proud of Fulop too. So somebody passes a law and he says he would do something like that or even tougher, except he has almost no power. That is news!
.. and of course he is planning to become a governor or US senator or similar, you can't spend that much only to become JC mayor...

Posted on: 2007/9/6 20:58
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Stick with the ethics push - It shouldn't be much longer until a whistleblower within City Hall spills the beans.

Posted on: 2007/9/6 20:53
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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I'm proud of Fulop for making them vote against this. He knows it won't pass, but now the council members opposed to it will be on record. Go Steve!

Posted on: 2007/9/6 20:13
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Sometimes you just have to call them out even if you can't win.
The councilmen are gnashing their teeth over having to vote on this because they know their on the wrong side of the issue.

I can't wait to see the lame excuses they come up with for voting no.Bill Gaughan who is the biggest offender will probably
fein outrage and indignation at even being questioned on his
ethical behavior.Meanwhile he has two jobs and two cars one of which he lets his family use,plus he has family on the payroll.

Posted on: 2007/9/6 19:24
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Quote:

callie1i wrote:
[quote]

Steve has felt this way at least since his campaign for councilman so to call this "grandstanding" for a potential mayoral run is nothing but hot air coming from people scared of losing their cushy positions (and their votes against this proposal won't be "transparent", either!)


That's the truth! It is all so sicking and these people are so confident that they can continue with this crap without having to answer to anyone.

Gina

Posted on: 2007/9/6 17:12
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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City Council President Mariano Vega, the county's director of parks, engineering and planning, said Fulop was "barking up a dead tree," adding holding two posts helps him see "how one position complements another."


yeah, and not how holding a government position might greatly influence one's vote on important issues directly affecting their constituency...

i've been at many city council meetings where some of the councilpeople's votes (and accompanying explanations for said votes) were absolutely transparent and infuriating!

Steve has felt this way at least since his campaign for councilman so to call this "grandstanding" for a potential mayoral run is nothing but hot air coming from people scared of losing their cushy positions (and their votes against this proposal won't be "transparent", either!)

Posted on: 2007/9/6 17:07
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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"The nine members of the Jersey City municipal council work on a part-time basis and make less than $30,000 a year," said Healy. "This requires they work an additional job."

Um, so I guess it's impossible that the other job be a non-governmental one? Perish the thought!

Posted on: 2007/9/6 16:19
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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Heavan forbid these people use some ethics.

Gina

Posted on: 2007/9/6 15:53
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Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
Wednesday, September 05, 2007
By KEN THORBOURNE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

On the same day Gov. Jon Corzine signed a law banning dual office-holding for state legislators, Jersey City Councilman Steve Fulop yesterday announced he's seeking to up the ante locally by making it against ethics rules to hold both a county and city post.

That proposal - one of a plethora of standards Fulop wants the city's Ethical Standard Board to adopt - would apply to five of his colleagues on the nine-member City Council.

Another provision barring employees working for a "city-linked autonomous agency" from serving on the council would knock a sixth colleague, Ward B Councilwoman Mary Spinello, out of the box. Spinello is a supervisor at the Jersey City Incinerator Authority.

Not shy about highlighting what he considers conflicts of interests among his fellow council members, Fulop said he planned to have his resolution introduced at next week's City Council meeting.

Having had a pay-to-play bill swatted down by a 6-2-1 vote in January, Fulop, a Citigroup trader, knows he's in for a fight. But it's worth it, he said.

"I'm committed and I'm fairly certain we'll have this accomplished by the end of my first term (May, 2009)," Fulop said during an editorial board meeting at The Jersey Journal. "This would be the strictest standards in the state."

Council members Viola Richardson, Bill Gaughan, Peter Brennan, Willie Flood and Mariano Vega all hold county jobs.

For his colleagues, the ban would kick in when they next run for re-election, Fulop said.

And "one salary, one pension" on the council isn't the only goal. Fulop wants stricter rules preventing the personal use of city cars, the hiring of relatives, and city officials becoming lobbyists when they leave office.

Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy and at least two of Fulop's colleagues weren't impressed.

"The nine members of the Jersey City municipal council work on a part-time basis and make less than $30,000 a year," said Healy. "This requires they work an additional job."

Gaughan, who doubles as chief of staff for Hudson County Executive Thomas DeGise, called Fulop "a guy who wants to run for mayor, grandstanding by way of the City Council," and pointed out the late Jersey City mayor Glenn D. Cunningham failed in court when he tried to bar Gaughan from the council for exactly the same issues Fulop is raising.

Fulop denied he plans to run for mayor.

Gaughan acknowledged he drives a city car and uses it occasionally for personal use. But he said he reports part of the value of the automobile as income on his income taxes.

City Council President Mariano Vega, the county's director of parks, engineering and planning, said Fulop was "barking up a dead tree," adding holding two posts helps him see "how one position complements another."

Posted on: 2007/9/5 13:00
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