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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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people should do their homework when selecting healthcare - but doing homework is good

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/ ... news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Posted on: 2014/11/15 13:07
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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CatDog wrote:
I'll miss the Pep Boys a lot. I'll miss the Shoprite and BJ's equally enough. I'm really glad that there will be a more walkable space, with more drivable roadways (the whole Tunnel/Mall/Metro Plaza trifecta is a perfect wall between Newport and the rest of town). I really hope that when this is all done that BJ's and Shoprite survive. I guess I can always go find another smaller shop to get car work done, but good, cheap groceries are becoming harder to find downtown.


Someone said they will construct the new Shoprite before the existing one is demolished. They will move the store, then knock down the old one, so there shouldn't be a period without Shoprite.

Posted on: 2014/11/15 7:06
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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I'll miss the Pep Boys a lot. I'll miss the Shoprite and BJ's equally enough. I'm really glad that there will be a more walkable space, with more drivable roadways (the whole Tunnel/Mall/Metro Plaza trifecta is a perfect wall between Newport and the rest of town). I really hope that when this is all done that BJ's and Shoprite survive. I guess I can always go find another smaller shop to get car work done, but good, cheap groceries are becoming harder to find downtown.

Posted on: 2014/11/15 6:46
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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This is the street grid currently in Harsimus Cove Sta. RDP - this was approved a few years ago.

New layout - An additional street is being added to break up the long blocks on Marin Blvd. These two streets running east/west will be one way.



Quote:

jmiz wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
What is the advantage of altering the street grid? I don't understand that at all. Makes the development feel like an isolated development versus being integrated into the rest of the city. A really bad idea, seemingly - am I missing something?


Urban renewal of the 1940s-1960s encouraged large chunks of neighborhoods to be sectioned off for one purpose, i.e. WTC, Lincoln Center. The Shoprite complex is not a mid-century product, but its design is. (Re)introducing the street grid has been done whenever possible to these big plots of land.

Maybe we're looking at two different things, but the street grid hasn't been rearranged. Streets have been added to what is now a parking lot. Adding streets is supposed to integrate the section back in to the city ......

Posted on: 2014/11/15 5:57
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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tommyc_37 wrote:
What is the advantage of altering the street grid? I don't understand that at all. Makes the development feel like an isolated development versus being integrated into the rest of the city. A really bad idea, seemingly - am I missing something?


Urban renewal of the 1940s-1960s encouraged large chunks of neighborhoods to be sectioned off for one purpose, i.e. WTC, Lincoln Center. The Shoprite complex is not a mid-century product, but its design is. (Re)introducing the street grid has been done whenever possible to these big plots of land.

Maybe we're looking at two different things, but the street grid hasn't been rearranged. Streets have been added to what is now a parking lot. Adding streets is supposed to integrate the section back in to the city ......

Posted on: 2014/11/15 0:27
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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07310 wrote:

I do most of my shopping at WF, TJ's I go to Shoprite for the basics only because it is close.


which wf you goto?


I work in Princeton I go to WF, TJ's & Wegmans all 3 stores a big with wide aisles and helpful staff. I also like the WF flagship store near the WTC and the store in Edgewater.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 21:38
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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The Whole Foods off RT78 is in Vauxhall (Union), not Millburn. It used to be in Millburn, at the former Lord and Taylor site now partially occupied by Trader Joes. It can easily be accessed by taking 1 & 9 southbound to 78W bypassing the NJ Turnpike tolls.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 20:29
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Shoprite is also significantly cheaper then Pathmark

Posted on: 2014/11/14 20:23
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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There are 2 WF's. The one in Millburn is slightly faster to get to as it's right off 78. The one in Edgewater takes a bit longer but involves no tolls. Both are near a TJ's, so that's a nice pairing.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 20:17
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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jklm wrote:
Resized Image

Main amendments being sought:
12 towers instead of 16 towers
street grid altered
open space increased to one acre

already approved: residential units - 5,700

Let's hope the park will be Phase 2.


i like it, approved. Please get it done.

Quote:

07310 wrote:

I do most of my shopping at WF, TJ's I go to Shoprite for the basics only because it is close.


which wf you goto?

Posted on: 2014/11/14 19:38
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Whatever development gets built, I hope it puts a dent in the predatory towing activity in that parking lot. I've never been towed, but after hearing stories about people who were towed even though they were shopping in one of the stores there and had proof of it, I refuse to shop over there at all. A&P is always less crowded anyway.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 19:14
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Plenty of people in DTJC do their shopping in the city or burbs. I saw people in my building with Wegman's bags, and the closest one is Woodbridge, which isn't very close at all.

The problem is not limited to the poorer parts of the city. For the amount of population and wealth in DTJC, the supermarket choices are not great either.


I do most of my shopping at WF, TJ's I go to Shoprite for the basics only because it is close.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 18:58
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Plenty of people in DTJC do their shopping in the city or burbs. I saw people in my building with Wegman's bags, and the closest one is Woodbridge, which isn't very close at all.

The problem is not limited to the poorer parts of the city. For the amount of population and wealth in DTJC, the supermarket choices are not great either.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 18:29
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Shoprite Demographics will not change until Ward F, and Ward A gets a Super Market in their neighborhoods. Since none of you understand that, there are no choices at all in some of these areas. So many Ward F and A who do not drive use Shoprite since the Lightrail takes them right there. I always roll my eyes when I see my neighbors heading dtjc to do grocery shopping, its pretty disgusting.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 19:46
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Shop Rite is an improvement over your typical NY grocery store (like a Gristedes) in many ways...particularly price and selection.

Shop Rite's demographics will change if the parking is not free- but they won't change completely. A&P has free parking, and you can breathe and shop comfortably there. It's all about the HBLR access, IMO, that brings non-downtowners in.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 19:36
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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PATH crowding aside, this looks like a thoughtful and much more pedestrian-friendly use of what's currently a big parking lot. Good.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 18:18
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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"Preserve Shoprite"? I wonder how many of the NY yupsters that will presumably occupy the towers above Shoprite will enjoy the cast of local characters and screaming kids constantly coming and going right outside their front door, customers abandoning shopping carts all over the vicinity before they get on the bus and employees smoking butts on the sidewalk on their break...

Hope folks are right to put their faith in increased ferry service, though I wonder how bad the PATH will get before additional service or piers are introduced in the Newport vicinity. No one moving to this development or the PAD will trek down to Paulus Hook to take the ferry, even if the price drops down to something closer to the train fare. At $12 round trip per day, I can't see ferries becoming a viable alternative to a $4.20 round trip on PATH for the masses, myself included...

Posted on: 2014/11/13 17:53
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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What is the advantage of altering the street grid? I don't understand that at all. Makes the development feel like an isolated development versus being integrated into the rest of the city. A really bad idea, seemingly - am I missing something?

Posted on: 2014/11/13 17:51
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Quote:

jklm wrote:
Resized Image

Main amendments being sought:
12 towers instead of 16 towers
street grid altered
open space increased to one acre

already approved: residential units - 5,700

Let's hope the park will be Phase 2.


Good use of that space, given its approximately mid-way location between Grove and Newport PATH's, plus 1 HBLR stop.

As for NYC-access, expect more crowding on PATH, but that's not to say there can't be ferry replacements. Much of Billyburg and Greenpoint have become quite reliant on
East River ferry alternatives to a very crowded MTA.

Also don't forget that many high-wage Wall Street jobs have or are relocating to JC, due to NJ's continued tax-incentivized job relocation/theft program. So not everyone will be a daily commuter into Midtown or FiDi.



Posted on: 2014/11/13 17:28
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Resized Image

Main amendments being sought:
12 towers instead of 16 towers
street grid altered
open space increased to one acre

already approved: residential units - 5,700

Let's hope the park will be Phase 2.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 17:09
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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No Whole Foods? I smell a riot brewing.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 12:44
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Voyeur wrote:

As of right now there is no plan for a school.


Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:

One just has to look at the demographics and see what the population was in 1990 at the start of the building boom and now - Have we added an extra school,


Honestly, I hadn't even thought about that. Dickinson is by far the worst as far as population #s go. Ferris isn't all that bad, but I'm assuming it's 2nd worst, what with all the families moving into the downtown area. A web search has at best 3 year old numbers.

Where would a new high school - or even a couple new grade schools go?

I'd imagine the Heights deserves a new HS to alleviate the crowding at DHS, but from a future standpoint, something in Pavonia/Harsimus Cove would make a lot of sense. Both? A new grade school is almost certainly due in downtown, 3/5/37 have got to be near full and again, something in Pavonia or HC or even near Grove would make a ton of sense.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 4:56
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Quote:

corybraiterman wrote:
so how did the meeting go? i saw the post earlier and planned to attend, but got roped into dinner with friends. standard BS all around i'm assuming?


For shame, after I got home last night, I couldn't convince myself to schlep back down to the Powerhouse from HP. But, from someone who did attend the meeting:

My understanding is that this redevelopment plan added height and density around 8 years ago with no meeting by the owners to the public. Since then the owner has joined with the developers that gave a presentation last night.

Here are some stats:

They want to build 12 buildings.
Each building will be around 35-40 stories.
The first building will be where the pep boys corner is. It will be rentals.
There will be a total of 5700 units when the project is finished.
Units will be 600 - 1000 sq ft.
There will be a park a little less than an acre to accommodate the nearly 6000-10,000 people that will come into the area. (that's 1/5 or 1/6th the size of Hamilton Park)
As of right now there is no plan for a school.
As of right now they are considering incorporating the ShopRite into one of the buildings. But they couldn't answer the question of whether the parking garage would be free for shoppers.
BJ's & Pep Boys will be gone. I don't know if they mentioned BB&B.
i love the mall even though i won't go there to see a novie. i think the city/lefrak/simon need to do look at putting the parking garage above or below ground and building apartments of the newly available space

Posted on: 2014/11/13 2:59
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Resized Image

Given that they are talking 12 towers, this rendering appears to be accurate in terms of what they are planning. The image is facing west, with the mall to the right, Marin running through the center and the 6th Street Embankment extending toward the top of the image.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 2:51
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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corybraiterman wrote:
so how did the meeting go? i saw the post earlier and planned to attend, but got roped into dinner with friends. standard BS all around i'm assuming?


For shame, after I got home last night, I couldn't convince myself to schlep back down to the Powerhouse from HP. But, from someone who did attend the meeting:

My understanding is that this redevelopment plan added height and density around 8 years ago with no meeting by the owners to the public. Since then the owner has joined with the developers that gave a presentation last night.

Here are some stats:

They want to build 12 buildings.
Each building will be around 35-40 stories.
The first building will be where the pep boys corner is. It will be rentals.
There will be a total of 5700 units when the project is finished.
Units will be 600 - 1000 sq ft.
There will be a park a little less than an acre to accommodate the nearly 6000-10,000 people that will come into the area. (that's 1/5 or 1/6th the size of Hamilton Park)
As of right now there is no plan for a school.
As of right now they are considering incorporating the ShopRite into one of the buildings. But they couldn't answer the question of whether the parking garage would be free for shoppers.
BJ's & Pep Boys will be gone. I don't know if they mentioned BB&B.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 2:33
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

jcguy05 wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
The PATH will be a little more packed
The buses will be a little more full
Less available on-street parking
Less spots available for child care
Overcrowded classroom numbers
A little more crowded parks
A little more dog poop
A few more cyclists using the sidewalk
A few more motorist speeding, and running stop signs
A few more members on JClist

and then we argue the pro's and con's of gentrification and the issues associated with high density, high rise inner city developments !


why are you always so negative about progress and development? If you want jersey city to remain a dump like it was 20 years ago, just move to irvington or newark, otherwise deal with it, the steamroller is not stopping for you.
Amen!


On the contrary, I'm in the business of construction and love developments and progress. What I oppose is poor town planning, poor infrastructure, poor services and failures to provide more open space and 'green' zones, plus the failure to provide enough housing to our citizens that have been displaced by gentrification.

JC has developed well-beyond what it can handle in regards to the above - The PATH is stretched to its limits, as is general public transport and thats why we see those $1 buses zooming around with little or no restrictions. We have no governing taxi service like NY and if you look at VVP and HP they haven't added an extra swing or slide with the population growth as an example.

Parking is often a nightmare with reports of parking rage, our police numbers have increased, but what is the ratio of police to population - does it even come close to NY.

Once again I love progress and development and some of the estates around Paulus Hook and Newport are great while many many other developments have simply created a problem that our city has yet to catch-up with.

One just has to look at the demographics and see what the population was in 1990 at the start of the building boom and now - Have we added an extra school, have we added a larger ambulance service .... its all about ratios and we are failing in many areas with cityhall struggling to keep up and compounding the problem by giving abatements to just about any developer


Posted on: 2014/11/12 20:39
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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tommyc_37 wrote:

It would be nice if there was a good vision for the mall. Unfortunately I think it's here to stay :( I started a thread on this, entitled "the future of newport mall", a few years ago if you want to search for it on this forum.


Bulldoze the parking lot. That's a real waste of space. Incorporate parking into the new structures that are going around the mall. The mall could potentially stay, it's not the worst even though it's not the best.

As for someone mentioning the Powerhouse, that's a gorgeous structure. They need to get their sh!t together and develop it into a usable community space. That way, there can be more retail, commercial, recreational spaces that can draw people into the area. A great idea would be to make the Powerhouse into a music venue (think NJPAC or BergenPAC). Or heck, even bring in a bowling alley and a climbing wall. Whatever they do with it, it will be a boost to the area.

Posted on: 2014/11/12 18:21
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Yes. cities have so few malls.

Not like there is say, a Manhattan Mall, smack dab in the middle of the busiest part of Manhattan, am I right?

I lived a 2 minute walk from the mall for over 2.5 years, and it was fantastic (now it's a 10 minute walk). Being shielded from cold/heat/rain, the convenience of actual stores one needs instead of a plethora of 99 cents stores or kale emporiums...

People in HP and Newport LIKE THE MALL that's why many people move there.

I'm for refurbishing the garage side on Marin for storefronts, but the mall should stay and not be disturbed by hipster dystopic visions for making life miserable for everyone else. If you don't like the mall, the beautiful streetscapes of Newark Ave are close by....

Posted on: 2014/11/12 18:17
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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There is a walkway always open through the middle of the mall from Newport to Hamilton Park!

So I am puzzled by Nafco and jcguy's posts.

Robin.

Posted on: 2014/11/12 18:17
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


It seems that all of the new high rise construction both downtown and in JSQ is "luxury rental". As discussed elsewhere on this board, developers are choosing (or are restricted through financing terms) to construct rentals rather than condos. We see this from the Maddox and York at Warren to URL and the Majestic II across from City Hall.

If that is and continues to be the case, we might expect the glut of supply to stabilize rental prices downtown, but I would expect the impact on condo prices to be negligible since the supply of units to purchase is remaining static.

In fact, if more renters move here and decide they want to buy, the influx of newcomers might even drive condo prices up as demand increases but available inventory remains unchanged. I might be wrong on that point, but in any event, I can't see the flood of new rental inventory being a depreciative factor on real estate prices in DTJC.


Agreed. I think it's mostly financing restrictions rather than developer choice; banks and other lenders are lumping Jersey City in with the rest of NJ, which has not been good for new condos/sales generally recently.

Posted on: 2014/11/12 17:32
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