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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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Yvonne wrote:
The problem with gentrification is the tax subsidies that are given.

Or.... not.

Gentrification happens with or without tax breaks. It can happen without any major government policies. E.g. affluent people start moving into a neighborhood, and voila, you've got gentrification.

Tax breaks can be beneficial, if they are used to encourage or require dedicated low-income/affordable housing, or reduce the costs of potentially vulnerable members of our community (e.g. Padua).

Posted on: 2015/5/16 20:52
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The problem with gentrification is the tax subsidies that are given. Here is something similar, while not gentrification, it does bother me. At the recent council meeting, the city decided to allow the residents of Padua Housing to deduct their utilities before their abatement is paid to the city. This is the same deal we gave to public housing and public housing stop contributing their tax dollars as utilities increased. The Padua housing has been around since 1994. What about the other seniors who own housing, are they allowed to deduct their utilities before they paid their taxes? The answer is no. Government is rewarding some citizens and punishing others. The people who are being pushed out through gentrification do not know about the subsidies that are give to developers.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 14:18
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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bodhipooh wrote:
I see much of the gentrification hand wringing as SJWs looking for causes and issues around which to rally....

Yes, because the people who get driven out of their neighborhoods never complain about gentrification. I guess they're just too poor to hold opinions on the matter.


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Gentrification is a natural by product of our capitalist democracy. Is it perfect? No, of course not.

But we shouldn't say anything negative about it anyway? Or even consider addressing the issues, including making sure new construction is appropriately zoned for a neighborhood?


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And, yes, there are unintended consequences and parties afflicted or whose lot is not improved by it. But, gentrification has many, many benefits for the majority of people.

I don't think that's clear at all, especially if the process is not managed well (or not managed at all).

It has benefits for the people who can afford to live in the newly gentrified neighborhoods, the handful of people who bought early, the developers, and so on.

For the poor, the results are... less evident.

One result is a reverse "white flight," namely blacks are moving out of urban areas, and to the suburbs. They remain poor, with reduced access to these vibrant urban cores which have employment opportunities, and diffuses political power due to living in areas with lower density. They have fewer resources (economic and social) to deal with a less-than-voluntary change in residence.

It's not clear that these disruptions are always bad; e.g. for those who can remain in the gentrified neighborhood, they likely benefit from improvements in services and education. It's plausible that high concentrations of poverty do not help those in poverty.

That said, another likely result is an increase in homelessness. Those who can't afford to relocate or pay for housing and transportation elsewhere, well, have nowhere to live. Does everyone benefit when there are more homeless people?

Also, overall people are spending far more on housing now than in the recent past, which in turn crowds out spending on other goods and services. If gentrification is a component of that (which may be the case in some regions and not others), that's not a good thing for everyone.


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At the end of the day, people need to get over the notion that just because you live somewhere, you are somehow entitled to continue living there ad infinitum.

But, wait, I thought all the hand-wringing was by those pesky liberals!!! ;)

To be clear, I agree with this comment in regards to renters. At the same time, it elides many critical issues, such as a lack of affordable housing.

Perhaps the better solution is to drop the snarl words, accept that gentrification happens, and figure out ways to deal with it that don't screw over poor people -- e.g. developing affordable housing, improving regional transportation options, targeting systemic issues that impede poor communities.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 13:57
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW

Social justice warrior. A particularly lazy variety of limousine liberal, champagne socialist, etc.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 12:12
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Posted on: 2015/5/16 11:09
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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This article might help some understand about demographics and gentrification

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/20 ... Multimedia&abt=0002&abg=0

Posted on: 2015/5/16 10:37
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zerkski wrote:
I used to live in Paulus Hook 15 years ago and I was gentrified out of that area when all the wall street money started discovering the area and made it ridiculously expensive for me! So, even white guys who do not make a ton of money get gentrified out of their chosen neighborhood. What can you do except welcome the development and hope some day that you will be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor and eventually make it back to a clean and safe neighborhood! So, now I find myself as a minority living in McGinley Square. Do people think that I came to this neighborhood to reap the benefits of future gentrification? I moved here 10 years ago out of financial necessity and the neighborhood has yet to see an ounce of change. Change is coming though and I will welcome gentrification to my hood with open arms because the neighborhood can only get cleaner, safer and more friendly as the "gentrifiers" replace the plastic siding with cedar shingles! Could care less if these gentrifiers are white , black, yellow, red or brown! This is only a racial issue if you look at it through racially tinted glasses.


This. I see much of the gentrification hand wringing as SJWs looking for causes and issues around which to rally, some to atone for their "guilt" and others looking to increase upon it.

Gentrification is a natural by product of our capitalist democracy. Is it perfect? No, of course not. And, yes, there are unintended consequences and parties afflicted or whose lot is not improved by it. But, gentrification has many, many benefits for the majority of people. At the end of the day, people need to get over the notion that just because you live somewhere, you are somehow entitled to continue living there ad infinitum.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 17:52
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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I used to live in Paulus Hook 15 years ago and I was gentrified out of that area when all the wall street money started discovering the area and made it ridiculously expensive for me! So, even white guys who do not make a ton of money get gentrified out of their chosen neighborhood. What can you do except welcome the development and hope some day that you will be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor and eventually make it back to a clean and safe neighborhood! So, now I find myself as a minority living in McGinley Square. Do people think that I came to this neighborhood to reap the benefits of future gentrification? I moved here 10 years ago out of financial necessity and the neighborhood has yet to see an ounce of change. Change is coming though and I will welcome gentrification to my hood with open arms because the neighborhood can only get cleaner, safer and more friendly as the "gentrifiers" replace the plastic siding with cedar shingles! Could care less if these gentrifiers are white , black, yellow, red or brown! This is only a racial issue if you look at it through racially tinted glasses.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 17:20
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
For an interesting view-point about gentification / Ferguson / Baltimore
Grab a cup of joe and have a read:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17897 ... government-backed-history

There is a lot more interesting view-points about the negative aspects associated with gentification

I have to say that article really made me think - while older black resident homeowners in Harlem and other places have told me their stories about red-lining, it's hard to fathom such a systemic disenfranchisement actually took place. And was this a cause of rise of poverty, rot, and ruin in (particularly) largely black neighborhoods, or the cause?

On the other hand, it's also hard to fathom how some communities can spiral into dysfunction, while others undergo disasters and spring back.

At the end of the day though, 'gentrification' is probably inevitable (I was gentrified out of my Upper West Side neighborhood, thus the 07307 zip code!), and I agree it will probably never be good for those who have no ability to be their own change agents.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 16:05
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So, according to this view of yours, how do you explain those situations of cities with really cheap housing stocks and still faced with the same issues? You do realize that in some parts of the country 2,000 - 3,000 sf home can be had for hundreds of dollars / month (certainly below 1K) and they are still faced with fraying social fabric, education funding debates and underfunded social needs, right? I don't think housing costs (which you attribute to gentrification) are the reason for these issues you describe. I think it is a matter of priorities, and what people value most. In places where families are valued / prized above all, you still see large families (eg, Utah, where its large Mormon population believes in the Biblical command to "go forth and populate the Earth"). People have their own, individual priorities and it would seem like in this area the top priorities are personal convenience, individualism, wealth, and status.


Bravo! People easily slip into a "bubble" mentality and make grand generalizations ignoring the facts that rule over broad swaths of this country. People struggle to make ends meet in places where you can buy a house for $20k.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 14:17
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
For an interesting view-point about gentification / Ferguson / Baltimore
Grab a cup of joe and have a read:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17897 ... government-backed-history

There is a lot more interesting view-points about the negative aspects associated with gentification


I love liberals. If wealthy white people don't want to subsidize low income housing for the sort of people that will destroy the neighborhood and ultimately riot as in Baltimore and Ferguson, they are horrible racists and part of the problem. However, if the same white people move into black neighborhoods, they are horrible gentrifiers and also part of the problem. Heads I win, tails you lose.

By the way, this issue is needlessly racialized for political reasons. Truthfully, no one cares if a black Yale law or med or HBS grad moves in next door. However, this isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about public housing and WHOEVER lives there - whether white, black, Hispanic, etc. is going to be problematic. However, they are disproportionately black and Hispanic, so we can pretend that this is a racial issue and not a class one.


I believe if housing didn't take such a big chunk out of our incomes, we could focus our incomes on education, social needs and better medical treatment, but when you have such high costings just to put a roof over your head, then the social fabric will have no option but to fail.


So, according to this view of yours, how do you explain those situations of cities with really cheap housing stocks and still faced with the same issues? You do realize that in some parts of the country 2,000 - 3,000 sf home can be had for hundreds of dollars / month (certainly below 1K) and they are still faced with fraying social fabric, education funding debates and underfunded social needs, right? I don't think housing costs (which you attribute to gentrification) are the reason for these issues you describe. I think it is a matter of priorities, and what people value most. In places where families are valued / prized above all, you still see large families (eg, Utah, where its large Mormon population believes in the Biblical command to "go forth and populate the Earth"). People have their own, individual priorities and it would seem like in this area the top priorities are personal convenience, individualism, wealth, and status.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 10:59
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
For an interesting view-point about gentification / Ferguson / Baltimore
Grab a cup of joe and have a read:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17897 ... government-backed-history

There is a lot more interesting view-points about the negative aspects associated with gentification


I love liberals. If wealthy white people don't want to subsidize low income housing for the sort of people that will destroy the neighborhood and ultimately riot as in Baltimore and Ferguson, they are horrible racists and part of the problem. However, if the same white people move into black neighborhoods, they are horrible gentrifiers and also part of the problem. Heads I win, tails you lose.

By the way, this issue is needlessly racialized for political reasons. Truthfully, no one cares if a black Yale law or med or HBS grad moves in next door. However, this isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about public housing and WHOEVER lives there - whether white, black, Hispanic, etc. is going to be problematic. However, they are disproportionately black and Hispanic, so we can pretend that this is a racial issue and not a class one.


I've had the viewpoint that gentrification has a detrimental effect on certain / specific socioeconomic groups whether or not it's a racial thing or not, it does seem to have a direct impact on the poor, the working poor, the seniors and even young families- Gentrification to me, speeds up the void in the social classes, whereby even the middle classes struggle. I have little doubt that gentrification also has an impact on family numbers - The days of having half a dozen kids are truly gone and even having 2 kids can be a huge financial problem for working couples

I believe if housing didn't take such a big chunk out of our incomes, we could focus our incomes on education, social needs and better medical treatment, but when you have such high costings just to put a roof over your head, then the social fabric will have no option but to fail.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 6:41
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devilsadvocate wrote:

I love liberals. If wealthy white people don't want to subsidize low income housing for the sort of people that will destroy the neighborhood and ultimately riot as in Baltimore and Ferguson, they are horrible racists and part of the problem. However, if the same white people move into black neighborhoods, they are horrible gentrifiers and also part of the problem. Heads I win, tails you lose.

By the way, this issue is needlessly racialized for political reasons. Truthfully, no one cares if a black Yale law or med or HBS grad moves in next door. However, this isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about public housing and WHOEVER lives there - whether white, black, Hispanic, etc. is going to be problematic. However, they are disproportionately black and Hispanic, so we can pretend that this is a racial issue and not a class one.


This.
it's not just poor, problem-causing folk who live in the projects any longer. i was stunned the other day, watching the different types of people coming /going from a project building in manhattan not too long ago.

i would have no problem living next to a public housing building as long as the residents were respectful and didn't cause problems for the neighborhood. london and parts manhattan seem to do a fine job of mixing public housing with regular housing

Posted on: 2015/5/15 4:04
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devilsadvocate wrote:

I love liberals. If wealthy white people don't want to subsidize low income housing for the sort of people that will destroy the neighborhood and ultimately riot as in Baltimore and Ferguson, they are horrible racists and part of the problem. However, if the same white people move into black neighborhoods, they are horrible gentrifiers and also part of the problem. Heads I win, tails you lose.

By the way, this issue is needlessly racialized for political reasons. Truthfully, no one cares if a black Yale law or med or HBS grad moves in next door. However, this isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about public housing and WHOEVER lives there - whether white, black, Hispanic, etc. is going to be problematic. However, they are disproportionately black and Hispanic, so we can pretend that this is a racial issue and not a class one.


This.

Posted on: 2015/5/14 21:07
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
For an interesting view-point about gentification / Ferguson / Baltimore
Grab a cup of joe and have a read:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17897 ... government-backed-history

There is a lot more interesting view-points about the negative aspects associated with gentification


I love liberals. If wealthy white people don't want to subsidize low income housing for the sort of people that will destroy the neighborhood and ultimately riot as in Baltimore and Ferguson, they are horrible racists and part of the problem. However, if the same white people move into black neighborhoods, they are horrible gentrifiers and also part of the problem. Heads I win, tails you lose.

By the way, this issue is needlessly racialized for political reasons. Truthfully, no one cares if a black Yale law or med or HBS grad moves in next door. However, this isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about public housing and WHOEVER lives there - whether white, black, Hispanic, etc. is going to be problematic. However, they are disproportionately black and Hispanic, so we can pretend that this is a racial issue and not a class one.

Posted on: 2015/5/14 20:44
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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A very good thing, it brings in educated, resident home owners. Also helps to get rid of the ghetto effect, and slum like neighborhood.

Posted on: 2015/5/14 0:29
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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For an interesting view-point about gentification / Ferguson / Baltimore
Grab a cup of joe and have a read:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17897 ... government-backed-history

There is a lot more interesting view-points about the negative aspects associated with gentification

Posted on: 2015/5/13 3:33
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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It raises my property values & allows me to charge more rent to the incoming crowds - yes a good thing indeed.



Posted on: 2015/5/12 21:31
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"You should know the score by now," Lillian Lopez sang as part of the group Odyssey, "you're a native New Yorker." I recently heard this song from the '70s for the first time, and since a reiterating score for many native New Yorkers has increasingly been displacement, it still seems very contemporary.

"Native New Yorker," with its lyrics about the travails of someone who is the essence of a city where "no one opens the door for" such, was recorded on the other side of the Hudson River, in West Orange. Hudson County natives are subject to a similar dynamic, though whether or not longtime residents are displaced depends on factors that include class and race. Much of the area's property development has been increasingly driven by wealth that caters to those with money who want to live in or near NYC, in a sixth borough of sorts. A new book by DW Griffith, "The Edge Becomes the Center: An Oral History of Gentrification in the 21st Century" is an epic and unusually inclusive treatise on the subject.

Story

Posted on: 2015/5/12 17:33
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What ?White Privilege? Really Means from the New York Times.


White wash your name to get a job ... sad but true

http://www.people.com/article/jose-zamora-name-joe-job-offers

Posted on: 2015/1/9 21:45
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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What ?White Privilege? Really Means from the New York Times.

Posted on: 2015/1/9 17:40
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A lot of people throw the term "privilege" around without understanding what it means. Merriam & Webster defines it as "a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor"

I would argue that anyone who works hard - the aforementioned Black or Hispanic artist, perhaps - is not "privileged", rather whatever advantages they have, they earned. And I would absolutely take what they have to say to heart.

Posted on: 2015/1/9 17:36
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If she was privileged and black or hispanic, would you go? You can be privileged also with a little hard work.

Posted on: 2015/1/9 17:06
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In the months-long process of curating the show, Hall wondered if she was the right person to be putting gentrification under the lens, especially having only been here for two years.

?What perspective do I really have as a person of relative privilege? That feeling originated with being a transplant, but it has evolved through my interviews with people of color in the community--There has been a lot of discussion about displacement, and as a white person living Downtown there?s no way I can separate myself from that conversation.

I was looking forward to seeing this exhibit, but don't have the stomach for the sight of privileged white people metaphorically flagellating themselves

Posted on: 2015/1/9 15:42
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staying on topic

Gentrification: It?s a hot-button topic in rapidly growing Jersey City.

Downtown JC has seen the most changes, with new high-rises, businesses and restaurants opening almost every month. A few decades ago, people were afraid to walk alone in Newport at night. Today, it?s home to shiny luxury condos and a park with its own beach.

Other neighborhoods, however, aren?t directly benefiting. MLK Drive, West Side Avenue and Palisade have stretches of empty storefronts and Journal Square, JC?s old heart, is a shell of its former self, only recently seeing more development. And in DTJC itself, longtime residents find themselves getting priced out of their homes. This leaves many asking--is this growth good for Jersey City?

Artist Allison Remy Hall found herself asking the same question. Hall, who studied anthropology at the University of Wisconsin, says she was intrigued by the chatter around her and decided to explore the topic through art.

At train stations and streets around the city, Hall talked to locals about gentrification. The end result? About 30 audio interviews from a diverse bunch--everyone from developers at SILVERMAN to activists from the Jersey City Peace Movement.

Hall then recruited local artists to create original pieces inspired by the interviews. While many are familiar names in the Downtown art scene, most of the participants hail from the Heights or other areas.

?Going into it, I really didn?t understand how complicated an issue it actually is as far as economics, class, race, and how it all plays together,? said Hall. ?There were people who were all about it, who said, Downtown is so beautiful now and I love it, but also people who said, What about everyone getting displaced because of rent?

?A lot of people actually came out in the middle. They said, Yeah, we really like some of the new restaurants and bars coming up, but we also can?t afford to live Downtown anymore,? added Hall, who is part of this conflicted bunch herself.

In the months-long process of curating the show, Hall wondered if she was the right person to be putting gentrification under the lens, especially having only been here for two years.

?I?ve been struggling with the sense that I don?t really have the right to be running such an art show,? said Hall.

?What perspective do I really have as a person of relative privilege? That feeling originated with being a transplant, but it has evolved through my interviews with people of color in the community--There has been a lot of discussion about displacement, and as a white person living Downtown there?s no way I can separate myself from that conversation.

?How can I truly curate a neutral and all-encompassing exhibit when I can?t really understand all sides of the situation because of my own background?? she asked.

?So I?m really just aiming to let the artists? work and the interviews speak for themselves.?

While she wants viewers to take away their own thoughts from the exhibit, Hall says she?s come to her own conclusions.

?I think it?s important to use resources in neighborhoods that already exist instead of just new ones,? said Hall. ?Jersey City is already filled with great communities and it would be a shame if it all just got washed away.?

?Gentrification: The Changing Landscape of Jersey City? opens Saturday, Jan. 10 with a reception from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. at 313 Gallery, 313 Third St., Jersey City.

http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... _of_new.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2015/1/9 13:50
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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Jersey City and all the various folks that make up it's population are all awesome! What makes it awesome...the people, my peeps...so get over yourselves and enjoy this wonderful town for as long as you live here!

Posted on: 2015/1/8 20:21
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I was responding to the post above mine, and I responded with a true explanation. And frankly, I wouldn't mind paying the money if it resulted in better results than the dismal graduation rate, while spending about 25% more per student than the state average.


Quit dodging my point, which is that neighborhoods in Westchester, CT and LI pay similar tax rates to comparable suburban NJ. There is no exceptional situation in NJ due to the Abbott decision. Everywhere you go there are poorer ares that need support. You, Rand Paul and Boris may be the last of the Libertarian true believers, but our "liberal" society believes in a moderate amount of sharing the wealth. Get over it. You'd get more sympathy if you whined as loudly about the waste in corporate welfare, Wall Street kleptocracy and crony capitalism.


Funny you hopped back on this thread after making a fool out of yourself before. I don't think you have any points to offer, other than opine how you don't like "Libertarian true believers."


Speaking of having no points to offer...

Posted on: 2015/1/8 16:39
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I was responding to the post above mine, and I responded with a true explanation. And frankly, I wouldn't mind paying the money if it resulted in better results than the dismal graduation rate, while spending about 25% more per student than the state average.


Quit dodging my point, which is that neighborhoods in Westchester, CT and LI pay similar tax rates to comparable suburban NJ. There is no exceptional situation in NJ due to the Abbott decision. Everywhere you go there are poorer ares that need support. You, Rand Paul and Boris may be the last of the Libertarian true believers, but our "liberal" society believes in a moderate amount of sharing the wealth. Get over it. You'd get more sympathy if you whined as loudly about the waste in corporate welfare, Wall Street kleptocracy and crony capitalism.


Funny you hopped back on this thread after making a fool out of yourself before. I don't think you have any points to offer, other than opine how you don't like "Libertarian true believers."

Posted on: 2015/1/8 15:53
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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Never mind all this navel gazing nonsense, what downtown bar is it that is closing?

Robin.


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Posted on: 2015/1/8 15:07
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Re: Is 'Gentrification' good for Jersey City?
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@ianmac, the South Orange/Maplewood school system is about half minority. Guess how much state funding they get? 11% of the budget. Taxpayers in those towns pay 86% of the costs through their local taxes. Not exactly what you describe . . .

Posted on: 2015/1/8 14:56
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