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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Anybody googled Stephen Kingsberry? It's a unique name. Interesting.

Try here, under Hudson County/Jersey City:
http://www.njactb.org/

He lives near the scene of the crime.


Quote:

Stringer wrote:
Jersey City residents vent at a meeting on PATH station closures

By Michaelangelo Conte/The Jersey Journal
February 18, 2014 at 10:12 PM

Angry Jersey City residents confronted the director of the PATH train system over the weekend closures of the Exchange Place and World Trade Center stations at a meeting at which Councilwoman Candice Osborne vowed to bring a ferry stop to Exchange Place.

?I will not sleep until we get a ferry,? said Osborne after the standing room only meeting tonight at the Barrow Mansion at which PATH Director Stephen Kingsberry bore the brunt of residents? frustration.

Osborn said there is already a ferry from Jersey City to the World Trade Center that leave from a dock behind the Goldman Sachs building and she said she will try to have it make a stop at nearby Exchange place on the way.

The PATH stations began closing on Saturday and will be closed nearly every weekend this year and possibility into 2015 for a federally mandated, $580 million project that the Port Authority says will replace its mechanical train controls with computerized signals.

Once installed, the system will allow for more frequent train service, the agency said.
At the meeting a representative of the Hyatt Regency Jersey City at Exchange Place told Kingsberry ?We market ourselves as a hotel that is convenient located across the river from Manhattan and by closing that PATH Station you are impacting our ability to serve our guests.?

Others complained that not enough prior notice was given to residents before the closures began. Another told the director the closures will have an impact on business in Jersey City.

On man said many residents located in Downtown because it provided easy access to Manhattan but ?it?s a really a pain trying to get a stroller down to Grove Street to get to the PATH?You are just not providing us with options that people who have families need to use the service.?

During the closures, passengers traveling to Lower Manhattan should use the Journal Square-33rd (HOB) and connect to New York Transit subways or buses (a separate fare is required), according to the Port Authority website.

Recommended transfer points include the 1 train from Christopher Street (exit PATH at Christopher Street), the A/C/E subway trains at West 4th Street (exit PATH at 9th Street), 2/3 subway trains from 14th Street (exit PATH at 14th Street), or the R train from 34th Street (exit PATH at 33RD Street), the website says.

Osborne also noted that people on fixed incomes or who are low income would have to pay additional fares when they transferred to subway lines and Kingsberry said that is an issue he would look into.

Numerous people suggest different possible routes they thought would make the closures more bearable but Kingsberry said the federal government ?requires us to complete it by 2015 and that mandates the shutdown on the weekends. We just can?t possibly do all that work while we are running 24/7.?

After the meeting that lasted about 45 minutes, Kingsberry said he was pessimistic that an alternate system of routes would work.

The stations will not be closed on major holidays. Additional information is available at the Port Authority's websitel.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ost_473.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2014/3/1 15:23
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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ProdigalSon wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:

Because you have the PATH downtown, and no one, not even NJ transit can compete with the cut throat Port Authority.

For a while there were talks of a ferry from Greenville to Red Hook Brooklyn then Port Authority stop that quick by buying Greenville Yards, It does not like competition, and it will c ck block any sort of alternative transportation options.


Where are Greenville Yards?


Resized Image


Greenville Yards

Posted on: 2014/2/21 21:17
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Lots of interesting details buried on the Port Authority website.

Here are board minutes from October, with a description at page 20 of the conditions in the tunnels and the work that is to be done. The minutes say:

Despite the extensive restoration efforts, which included extensive
power-washing of the PATH tunnels and related infrastructure, portions of Tunnels A, B, E and F
and their infrastructure exhibit signs of latent salt residue and salty solution (brine). Residue salt
deposits are known to cause significant and ongoing corrosion to critical mechanical, structural and
electrical infrastructure components and their subsystems. Therefore, it is critical that the salt be
removed, to reduce the potential for further damage. In addition, mechanical and electrical
infrastructure will need to be repaired or replaced, because chlorides are known to have destructive
reactions on these types of infrastructure. The proposed Phase I project would serve to remediate the
affected tunnel areas and associated infrastructure.


According to these minutes, the work is to be done in Tunnels A, B, E, and F. The WTC tunnels are E & F. Tunnels A & B are the 33rd St. line. So work in the tunnels to Christopher Street is definitely on the agenda.

Here is the 2014 Budget, which was approved last night. See pages 37 - 43 for the PATH. On page 43, item 3, it says the Signal System Replacement Program goal is to increase capacity 20% by allowing trains to run more frequently. (It's ironic to see this as a goal while meanwhile they seem to be cutting back trains so much, especially nights and weekends, and even apart from the WTC tunnel work.)

Here is the long-term capital plan, also approved last night. See pages 17, 18, and 19 for descriptions of re-do of Harrison Station, renovation of Grove St. station (including elevators), and the extension of the PATH to Newark Airport.

Here is a powerpoint that accompanied the Capital Plan. Pretty pictures of Harrison and Grove.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 19:59
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Yvonne wrote:
They are the puppetmasters for this chaos. The only hope to loosen their grasp may have come due to the nonsense starting to unravel as a result of the Bridge closing. Let the hearings begin so these misfits can be brought to account for their abuse of all of us.

It actually started to unravel when they (PA) attempted to raise the tunnel tolls and PATH fares in one shot instead of increments as it is being done now. This is the last year of four year increments for the PATH fares. In 2011 the PATH wanted to raise the fare $1.00 but instead raised it 25 cents for a period of 4 years. This year will bring the raise to $1.00. In 2011 the fare was $1.75 this year it will be $2.75.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 12:47
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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jcman420 wrote:
...
Unfortunately, in yet another sign of its seeming omnipotence, the Authority, as a bi-state agency, is subject to NEITHER NJ's or NY's open public records laws. It is only subject to its own laughable public record policy drawn up by its board. This agency is literally something right out of the Kremlin or some banana republic. They are allowed to operate in near complete secrecy.


Well put.

The PA think they are not subject to Federal Law such as the Freedom of Information Act, but will use the excuse of "Federal mandates" when it suits them. Absolute hypocrites.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... s_fail_to_override_c.html


Posted on: 2014/2/20 1:38
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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In light of what we now know about the closing of the George Washington Bridge, including the open disdain Port Authority officials have expressed toward our mayor, the agency has lost the benefit of the doubt with the people of NJ.

Unfortunately, in yet another sign of its seeming omnipotence, the Authority, as a bi-state agency, is subject to NEITHER NJ's or NY's open public records laws. It is only subject to its own laughable public record policy drawn up by its board. This agency is literally something right out of the Kremlin or some banana republic. They are allowed to operate in near complete secrecy.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 23:54
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Yvonne wrote:
The Port Authority has its muck encrusted footprints in two major projects that will impact us for the next several years; the shutdown of WTC service for a year and then the 33rd St. line for another year. At the same time they are bankrolling the billion dollar overhaul of the Pulaski Skyway set to start 3/29 (Star Ledger 1/7/11) They are the puppetmasters for this chaos. The only hope to loosen their grasp may have come due to the nonsense starting to unravel as a result of the Bridge closing. Let the hearings begin so these misfits can be brought to account for their abuse of all of us.


We have seen from Bridgegate how the Port Authority will lie and use their tremendous power to crush their enemies. And then laugh about it. "Is it wrong that I'm smiling?"

We also know from the emails that Mayor Fulop is higher on their "ignore list" than the Ft Lee mayor.

I agree that our only hope is some of these psychos will be held accountable from the Bridgegate hearings and Jersey City can get some relief (in the form of actual alternatives).

Posted on: 2014/2/19 23:38
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Amen.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 23:30
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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The Port Authority has its muck encrusted footprints in two major projects that will impact us for the next several years; the shutdown of WTC service for a year and then the 33rd St. line for another year. At the same time they are bankrolling the billion dollar overhaul of the Pulaski Skyway set to start 3/29 (Star Ledger 1/7/11) They are the puppetmasters for this chaos. The only hope to loosen their grasp may have come due to the nonsense starting to unravel as a result of the Bridge closing. Let the hearings begin so these misfits can be brought to account for their abuse of all of us.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 23:23
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Living in JC for only a few years I've quickly realized that people living outside of JC could really give two f*cks about people living in JC.


Posted on: 2014/2/19 21:09
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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FakeGreenDress wrote:

My going theory is that this is all about 1WTC, that someone looked at a calendar and panicked that they'd have to shut WTC service after it opens next year. Don't think they considered residents at all, but god forbid they have to inconvenience their precious tenants...


Absolutely. For the same reason that they didn't start this work prior to the SuperBowl - bad press, not any consideration for residents.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 20:49
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/ ... 3-&om_mid=_BTBRQzB84WnAbH

Between the ice falling and closures, the WTC PATH is cursed.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 20:41
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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SwitchboardGirl wrote:
Dolomiti, check out NJ Transit bus route 120 with stops on Church Street. Not talking about replacing the PATH with buses.... only adding more buses to help increase our public transportation options to NYC, wouldn't this be a good thing for our city? No bus station necessary.

I stand corrected... by a bus line that runs ~10 times a day, and doesn't run on weekends. ;)

They could add some buses, but ultimately, we're talking about a need to transport up to 20,000 riders over the weekend. There should be no question that even replacing a fraction of that will result in a strain on the Holland Tunnel, and will need some place to drop passengers off. It is much, much easier said than done.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 19:14
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Dolomiti, check out NJ Transit bus route 120 with stops on Church Street. Not talking about replacing the PATH with buses.... only adding more buses to help increase our public transportation options to NYC, wouldn't this be a good thing for our city? No bus station necessary.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 18:46
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

SwitchboardGirl wrote:
Why do NJ Transit buses *have* to go to Port Authority?

Each PATH car holds 130 passengers; one NJT bus holds 42. Replacing a single PATH train will require 27 buses. How long will it take to get 20 buses through the Holland Tunnel? Where will they drop passengers off? Where will they do the maintenance?

PA does not run bus lines. NJT doesn't run any lines in NYC. I'm not sure what you're seeing, but it's surely not 20 buses showing up at once.

The simplicity of the solution is belied by the difficulties of actually putting it into practice.


Really? How did the PA manage to do it after 9/11 when they ran a service from Exchange Place or Grove St to the other side of the Holland Tunnel?

(When's your PA paycheck due?)

Posted on: 2014/2/19 18:36
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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SwitchboardGirl wrote:
Why do NJ Transit buses *have* to go to Port Authority?

Each PATH car holds 130 passengers; one NJT bus holds 42. Replacing a single PATH train will require 27 buses. How long will it take to get 20 buses through the Holland Tunnel? Where will they drop passengers off? Where will they do the maintenance?

PA does not run bus lines. NJT doesn't run any lines in NYC. I'm not sure what you're seeing, but it's surely not 20 buses showing up at once.

The simplicity of the solution is belied by the difficulties of actually putting it into practice.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 18:27
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Toonces wrote:
Did they seriously not even THINK of alternatives before they announced this outage? Everything they've said and done, so far, suggests they didn't - including the only 2-week notice. In fact, the short notice really says to me that they purposely acted to minimize the public's chance to comment or act, before they started the closures.

Absolutely amazing.


My going theory is that this is all about 1WTC, that someone looked at a calendar and panicked that they'd have to shut WTC service after it opens next year. Don't think they considered residents at all, but god forbid they have to inconvenience their precious tenants...

Posted on: 2014/2/19 18:12
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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SwitchboardGirl wrote:
I grew up in Rockland County about 30 miles from NYC and we had more options of getting into the city then I do here?.

Did you? How curious.

You can drive from both locations. Rockland has Metro North; JC has PATH. Rockland has buses, but no ferries. Downtown JC has ferries, but no buses.

What am I missing? Helicopter, perhaps? ;)


Quote:
If anything comes out of this insanity it would be the crazy notion that we need more options period?. PATH or no PATH.

That would be great. But who's going to pay for it?

We could add more ferries, but last time that nearly bankrupted NY Waterway. Who wants to subsidize and/or bail them out?

The ARC tunnel was projected to cost $9 billion. Care to guess who foots the bill?

We could send buses through the Holland Tunnel, but aside from increasing traffic in an already heavily trafficked area, who's going to pay for a proper bus station?

Posted on: 2014/2/19 17:57
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Dolomiti wrote:

NJT has no problems putting in bus services that potentially overlap PA services. It's just not always easy to do so.

For example, there is no bus station near the exit to the Holland Tunnel. Buses would need to get to Port Authority somehow -- e.g. either cut through Hoboken, or ride along the West Side Highway. I suspect that after doing that a few times, you'll curse NJT as much as PA. ;)

Jitneys could work. But if they're dropping off 10,000 people on a Saturday, they're going to need somewhere to drop off and pick up riders. They might also not want to offer 24/7 service. PA has nothing to do with that process.





Why do NJ Transit buses *have* to go to Port Authority? I see buses letting out/picking up passengers in Lower Manhattan that are NJ Transit and PA Lines. Why can?t Jersey City get in on this?

Posted on: 2014/2/19 17:31
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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user1111 wrote:
Because you have the PATH downtown, and no one, not even NJ transit can compete with the cut throat Port Authority.

I don't think that's the case.

NJT has no problems putting in bus services that potentially overlap PA services. It's just not always easy to do so.

For example, there is no bus station near the exit to the Holland Tunnel. Buses would need to get to Port Authority somehow -- e.g. either cut through Hoboken, or ride along the West Side Highway. I suspect that after doing that a few times, you'll curse NJT as much as PA. ;)

Jitneys could work. But if they're dropping off 10,000 people on a Saturday, they're going to need somewhere to drop off and pick up riders. They might also not want to offer 24/7 service. PA has nothing to do with that process.

Ferries just aren't very profitable in most circumstances. NY Waterway has little choice but to run a limited schedule with relatively high rates; iirc another company ran a water taxi, and they couldn't keep up service.

Note that NY Waterway may not, in fact, be willing to take up the slack. They expanded service in 2001 to compensate for the lost WTC PATH train, and it almost bankrupted them. (When PATH service returned to normal, NYW couldn't cut its costs.) Even with subsidies, NYW may be reluctant to add service.


Quote:
For a while there were talks of a ferry from Greenville to Red Hook Brooklyn then Port Authority stop that quick by buying Greenville Yards....

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing any indication that anyone wanted to put in a commuter ferry stop at Greenville Yards. The plan for the PA to buy it dates back to 2005.

In fact, not only does PA own many of the ferry stations in the area, PA took steps to save NY Waterway's bacon when it faced bankruptcy a few years ago.

For all their many sins, they aren't "afraid of competition," and they aren't trying to screw over the ferry services.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 17:11
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Osborne also noted that people on fixed incomes or who are low income would have to pay additional fares when they transferred to subway lines and Kingsberry said that is an issue he would look into.


It's great that she brought this up, but groups facing the one of the greatest hardships merely get ?also noted? status in the press? Some things never change.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 16:34
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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bodhipooh wrote:
does that mean that the JSQ/33rd St line will be shut down in 2015?

Probably. But it also depends on how much progress they're making on that tunnel, and how much work needs to be done.

My recollection is that some of the work was already done, but the WTC tunnel was so heavily damaged by Sandy that a) work was pushed back by 4 months, b) they still have to get in there and power wash a bunch of the salt water off, and c) Sandy wrecked a bunch of of the new equipment.

Unfortunately, the simple fact is that upgrading existing infrastructure is highly disruptive and time-consuming. Everyone wants the benefits, and no one wants to be inconvenienced to keep things working. C'est la guerre.


Quote:
Quite honestly, this whole mess with the PATH (and the assumption on my part that the same will happen in 2015 with the JSQ lines) have me rethinking my choice of living here.

Well, do what you've gotta do, but no part of the NYC area is truly immune from these kinds of issues. To wit:

? If you stay on the NJ side, you're looking at ferries ($$$) or buses (very slow, even from Weehawken etc) or driving ($$$ AND slow)

? MTA does a much better job communicating closures and changes. However, they have been screwing around with weekend schedules for years (for repair purposes), and have been working on the 2nd Avenue Subway for decades.

? MTA's budget is also a total nightmare, and they're raising fares as well.

? Metro North and LIRR are no better than PA with communication and accountability.

? Good luck traveling between Brooklyn and Queens via subway.

None of this excuses the absurd lack of communication about closing the WTC line, or more general silence by PA. We should just keep in mind that, as the cliche says: The grass is often greener on the other side.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 16:29
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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user1111 wrote:

Because you have the PATH downtown, and no one, not even NJ transit can compete with the cut throat Port Authority.

For a while there were talks of a ferry from Greenville to Red Hook Brooklyn then Port Authority stop that quick by buying Greenville Yards, It does not like competition, and it will c ck block any sort of alternative transportation options.


Where are Greenville Yards?

Posted on: 2014/2/19 16:06
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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user1111 wrote:

Because you have the PATH downtown, and no one, not even NJ transit can compete with the cut throat Port Authority.

For a while there were talks of a ferry from Greenville to Red Hook Brooklyn then Port Authority stop that quick by buying Greenville Yards, It does not like competition, and it will c ck block any sort of alternative transportation options.


You?re probably right. I think it?s insane that downtown Jersey City only has the PATH as a viable option into Manhattan (especially on the weekends). I grew up in Rockland County about 30 miles from NYC and we had more options of getting into the city then I do here?.living less than 5 miles away from lower Manhattan. If anything comes out of this insanity it would be the crazy notion that we need more options period?. PATH or no PATH.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 15:49
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Oh, and PS - they better not even THINK of closing the 33rd st. line before they complete that stupid albatross Calatrava project, so that at the very least, taking the PATH to the WTC and transferring to the subway is minimized.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 15:20
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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SwitchboardGirl wrote:
Why can't NJ Transit start some new bus routes downtown? I never understood why downtown Jersey City is so under served with buses into Manhattan.


Because you have the PATH downtown, and no one, not even NJ transit can compete with the cut throat Port Authority.

For a while there were talks of a ferry from Greenville to Red Hook Brooklyn then Port Authority stop that quick by buying Greenville Yards, It does not like competition, and it will c ck block any sort of alternative transportation options.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 15:19
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
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Among my personal myriad of issues with this whole situation, at the core is the simple concept that we, the public, apparently have to be the ones that suggest/recommend alternatives and specific courses of action that the PA should take, as some sort of contingency. If my understanding of the situation is correct, the light rail cross-honoring wouldn't have happened if Candice Osbourne hadn't pushed for it. It absolutely amazes me that a public "serving" agency can and does continue to act with absolute disregard - with clearly no intention, otherwise - to the consumers that they serve.

Did they seriously not even THINK of alternatives before they announced this outage? Everything they've said and done, so far, suggests they didn't - including the only 2-week notice. In fact, the short notice really says to me that they purposely acted to minimize the public's chance to comment or act, before they started the closures.

Absolutely amazing.

Say what you will about the MTA, but at least the straphangers organization and the NYC media hold them accountable to the point that they pro-actively offer alternatives (most of the time) when they have planned large-system outages.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 15:18
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
#33
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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Why can't NJ Transit start some new bus routes downtown? I never understood why downtown Jersey City is so under served with buses into Manhattan.

Posted on: 2014/2/19 15:13
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
#32
Home away from home
Home away from home


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Quote:

DAllen wrote:
As I understand it, October 1, we're facing another $0.25 increase to $2.75

http://www.jerseycityindependent.com/ ... path-fare-toll-hike-plan/



And the hits keep coming...

Posted on: 2014/2/19 14:44
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Re: Public Meeting with Port Authority Reps: 2/18/14 @ 7:30pm
#31
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Newbie


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As I understand it, October 1, we're facing another $0.25 increase to $2.75

http://www.jerseycityindependent.com/ ... path-fare-toll-hike-plan/

Posted on: 2014/2/19 14:20
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