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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Also, it should be noted that current JSQ / 33rd St trains run with 7 cars, not 8. So, if the station platform lengthening to 10-cars ever happens, it would represent a 40% capacity increase.

Regardless, I don't see that project ever getting off the ground... The amount of safety studies required just to satisfy and quell opposition in the various NYC neighborhoods impacted by that project would likely prove insurmountable. You have 5 stations in NYC that would need to be modified, along with additional egress capacity. Not likely to happen in the next 20 years.

Posted on: 4/4 19:32
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erstrecs wrote:
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Once the number of trains in maxed out, then they're going to go from 8-car to 10-car trains. That's another 25 percent increase in capacity in addition to the 29 percent increase from the signaling upgrades.


But the current 8 car trains stretch the entire length of every station I'm aware of, how would a longer train pick up and drop off people?


The plan is to extend platforms at PATH stations. The NWK/WTC route should be able to accommodate the longer trains once Harrison is rebuilt and Grove is modified. For trains on the 33rd St lines, the platform elongating effort may prove too difficult/costly for it to happen any time soon.


Does anyone have a reliable source for the purported 29% increase in service after the signal system is complete? The most I recall seeing is 20% and ominously even that seems to have disappeared from the PATH website. Any more than a trivial increase will require more trains sets, and I haven't seen anything about new trains cars on order. Anyone seen that anyplace?

When PATH finishes the Harrison and Grove upgrades to accommodate 10-car trains, in theory there could be a 25% capacity increase on the WTC line – if they run the same number of trains with 10 cars in each train. That will also need more trains. So, again, anyone seen any orders for new train cars? Or even anything about that in the PATH capital budget plan....? I haven't.

On the 33rd line, I've read conflicting reports – some say 8 car trains are possible, others say 7 is the max because of the station lengths AND the clearances through the points – especially the multiple crossing points immediately to the north of Newport. Anyone have any verifiable information about that?

I've also read there's no feasible way stations on the 33rd line will ever be lengthened due to complex cost / engineering / environmental / safety concerns. If they want to extend the platforms, then one narrow egress isn't permitted on safety grounds, so they'd need to build additional entry/exit tunnels.

Train cars don't come cheap or quick, and with the Gateway tunnel and Midtown bus terminal rebuild projects sucking up vast amounts of PA cash over the next decade or so, I'm not holding my breath for any improvement in PATH service.

It is very difficult to find reliable, trustworthy information about PATH. Too many vested interests, with too much money at stake for folks to be telling the truth....

Posted on: 4/4 18:25
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Once the number of trains in maxed out, then they're going to go from 8-car to 10-car trains. That's another 25 percent increase in capacity in addition to the 29 percent increase from the signaling upgrades.


But the current 8 car trains stretch the entire length of every station I'm aware of, how would a longer train pick up and drop off people?


The plan is to extend platforms at PATH stations. The NWK/WTC route should be able to accommodate the longer trains once Harrison is rebuilt and Grove is modified. For trains on the 33rd St lines, the platform elongating effort may prove too difficult/costly for it to happen any time soon.

Posted on: 4/4 12:53
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Once the number of trains in maxed out, then they're going to go from 8-car to 10-car trains. That's another 25 percent increase in capacity in addition to the 29 percent increase from the signaling upgrades.


But the current 8 car trains stretch the entire length of every station I'm aware of, how would a longer train pick up and drop off people?

Posted on: 4/4 12:26
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
So what happened on the PATH today? Track condition?


Is track condition code word for suicide?



This was over 20 years ago... I walked onto the Newport platform moments after some women threw herself in front of the PATH train. The PA announced system delays "due to debris on the tracks". I never figured out if that announcement was an accident or someone had a really dark sense of humor.

Posted on: 4/4 11:27
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So what happened on the PATH today? Track condition?


Is track condition code word for suicide?

Posted on: 4/4 10:54
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Track condition on PATH, I guess.

And then also PATH cross-honoring NJT passengers because of the NJT derailment yesterday.

Perfect recipe for an ugly commute.


Posted on: 4/4 10:34
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So what happened on the PATH today? Track condition?

Posted on: 4/4 10:14
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val7101 wrote:
You are probably confusing the alternate universe you are traveling in with reality.

Nope, I'm commuting in the real world. 5 days a week.


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Or else you are one of those people who just push into the train as long as they can get two toes in the door.

Not that either.


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Or just a troll on JC List with no actual experience.

Strike 3

As a reminder, ad hominems are not actually an argument.

Posted on: 4/3 19:54
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My understanding is Federal regs preclude PATH trains running more frequently until the signal system has been updated. So it seems a fine point to say the signal upgrade is not mandated. But mandate or no, more reliable and frequent PATH service is badly needed.


Not to get too in the weeds, but the mention of "mandates" reminded me. There are two systems being installed here. One is required whether PATH wants to increase capacity or not, the other is needed to get the capacity to run more trains:

1. Positive Train Control (PTC) is required by federal law. All passenger and freight railroads in the U.S. must have PTC installed and operational by 2018. PTC addresses safety issues, but does not significantly impact capacity.

2. Communications-based train control (CBTC) will allow trains to run closer together, thereby increasing the effective capacity of the lines.

The signal work PATH has been doing for the past two years or so has been to install the systems for both. Here's a cute video the PA posted on youtube last year about the signal upgrades:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWtFsU0SeH8

Posted on: 4/3 19:27
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Frank_M wrote:
Sleep—or a hassle-free morning commute.

Choose wisely


Or negotiate with your employer to come in later.


Hahaha. Cute.

Choose wisely


If you're valuable to the company, they will find a way.

Posted on: 4/3 18:47
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Frank_M wrote:
Sleep—or a hassle-free morning commute.

Choose wisely


Or negotiate with your employer to come in later.


Hahaha. Cute.

Choose wisely

Posted on: 4/3 18:34
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Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?

Guess you've never taken the path during rush hour.

I take it every work day, and on weekends as well. During rush hour.


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You can't get IN the train.

Total nonsense. Even for Newport riders.

It can get a little crowded, but it is extremely rare that the train is so jammed you can't get on. When that does happen, there's usually a half-empty train right behind it.

You want crowded? Try the 4/5/6 during rush hour.


You actually do live in a parallel universe (parallel tracks, technically) - Newport is not on the line that has the most severe crowding, by a longshot. The Newark-WTC line is the one that frequently has situations where you can't get on the train - had to let two go this morning at 9:10.

Posted on: 4/3 16:19
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JCGuys wrote:
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PATH has never increased service? Lol. Just lasy year they increased service on the JSQ to 33rd line. They do it very gradually and only when capacity hits critcal levels.

Do you have any articles on that? I haven't seen anything, only discussion that signal work on the 33rd line ended in January or so.


My understanding is Federal regs preclude PATH trains running more frequently until the signal system has been updated. So it seems a fine point to say the signal upgrade is not mandated. But mandate or no, more reliable and frequent PATH service is badly needed.

On other fine points, there was no net increase in overall service (total number of trains running) with the May 2015 timetable change increasing trains from JSQ. The increase in JSQ trains was matched by a reduction on the HOB line. I'm not aware of any increase in service in 2016 (last year).

Here's what PATH was reported as saying at the time – if you believe them:
http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... rains-?instance=more_page

There are a lot of vested interests at play in discussions about PATH. Which developer wants it known that the PATH is a mess now, let alone what it will be after thousands more apartments are finished - in JC, Harrison and Newark, not to mention the EWR extension...


Right on the May 2015 change. That's what I meant when I said last year. (Oh how time passing by)

Posted on: 4/3 15:54
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JCGuys wrote:
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PATH has never increased service? Lol. Just lasy year they increased service on the JSQ to 33rd line. They do it very gradually and only when capacity hits critcal levels.

Do you have any articles on that? I haven't seen anything, only discussion that signal work on the 33rd line ended in January or so.


My understanding is Federal regs preclude PATH trains running more frequently until the signal system has been updated. So it seems a fine point to say the signal upgrade is not mandated. But mandate or no, more reliable and frequent PATH service is badly needed.

On other fine points, there was no net increase in overall service (total number of trains running) with the May 2015 timetable change increasing trains from JSQ. The increase in JSQ trains was matched by a reduction on the HOB line. I'm not aware of any increase in service in 2016 (last year).

Here's what PATH was reported as saying at the time – if you believe them:
http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... rains-?instance=more_page

There are a lot of vested interests at play in discussions about PATH. Which developer wants it known that the PATH is a mess now, let alone what it will be after thousands more apartments are finished - in JC, Harrison and Newark, not to mention the EWR extension...

Posted on: 4/3 15:36
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JCGuys wrote:
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PATH has never increased service? Lol. Just lasy year they increased service on the JSQ to 33rd line. They do it very gradually and only when capacity hits critcal levels.

Do you have any articles on that? I haven't seen anything, only discussion that signal work on the 33rd line ended in January or so.


Yes, but which point specifically?

Posted on: 4/3 15:21
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JCGuys wrote:
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PATH has never increased service? Lol. Just lasy year they increased service on the JSQ to 33rd line. They do it very gradually and only when capacity hits critcal levels.

Do you have any articles on that? I haven't seen anything, only discussion that signal work on the 33rd line ended in January or so.

Posted on: 4/3 14:19
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bill wrote:
This file is from 2005 where they anticipated the the signal upgrades would be completed 2010-2015.

33rd st signal upgrade completed last year, has the service times increased since?

Not sure when the WTC upgrade will be completed...


The signal upgrades are a federal mandate. PATH is not doing this to ease crowding on the trains. After the upgrades, PATH could run trains more frequently. Will they? No. I have been riding PATH for 14 years and every time there is a new timetable, PATH has ALWAYS decreased service. I could be wrong, but I've never seen it where PATH has actually increased service.

The weekend service used to be like the weekday service where the JSQ train didn't go through Hoboken. They switched to what is it today and said it would only be temporary while they build the 9/11 museum.


Wrong. PTC is federally mandated. The signals that allow trains to run closer together is CBTC. Both upgrades are being done at the same time.

PATH has never increased service? Lol. Just lasy year they increased service on the JSQ to 33rd line. They do it very gradually and only when capacity hits critcal levels.

Posted on: 4/3 13:28
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The problem also is that the PA loses money on the PATH every year, even with growing ridership. So, they probably don't want to invest as the future returns are not there.

It's beyond me why an expensive expansion to EWR needs to happen. They have the AirTrain from NJT already. I just think adding a bunch of people with big suitcases (esp at rush hour) would make the overcrowding worse.

Separately but related - The PATH has been a disaster on weekend mornings lately, especially going to 33rd. Has anyone else noticed this? Last w/e, I eventually took the train to WTC and subway up to midtown since it didn't appear that any trains were going to 33rd at all after waiting close to 30 minutes.


This isn't a business, it's a public service. Making money isn't the point.

Posted on: 4/3 12:26
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Dolomiti wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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jcresident16 wrote:
seems we won't be able to use the PATH... Recent article says it's 37,000 new units - how are we going to fit?

https://jerseydigs.com/jersey-city-real-estate-development-2017/


If nothing changes between now and 2019 or 2020, and the trains become so crowded you can't get on one heading to NYC by the time it arrives at Grove, just take ride it one station away to JSQ, stay seated and ride it back to NYC.

So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?


Your reading comprehension is a little poor, as others have already pointed out.

My reading comprehension is fine. I'm not the one who suggested adding 20 minutes to a commute just to get a seat. 0


NO one is saying to add 20 minutes to get a seat. That's the reading comprehension problem you are having.... Others got what I was trying to say: ride to JSQ and remain inside the train, as it will come back around. Whether you get a seat or not, is immaterial. In fact, I prefer to stand, as I always worry about some asswipe too preoccupied with their phones spilling a coffee on those sitting down.

Posted on: 4/3 11:34
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Dolomiti wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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jcresident16 wrote:
seems we won't be able to use the PATH... Recent article says it's 37,000 new units - how are we going to fit?

https://jerseydigs.com/jersey-city-real-estate-development-2017/


If nothing changes between now and 2019 or 2020, and the trains become so crowded you can't get on one heading to NYC by the time it arrives at Grove, just take ride it one station away to JSQ, stay seated and ride it back to NYC.

So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?


Your reading comprehension is a little poor, as others have already pointed out.

My reading comprehension is fine. I'm not the one who suggested adding 20 minutes to a commute just to get a seat. 0


Quote:
As for your other posts on this thread, don't you find it somewhat thought provoking that your experience is so different from that of (seemingly) everyone else?

Nope.

All I'm seeing here is a handful of anecdotal assertions, which don't match my experiences.

I've also commuted via public transport (and other methods), in several different cities, for longer than I care to admit. PATH is average; crowding is nowhere near as bad as the 4/5/6 line, or the trusty N line on the SF Muni....

Posted on: 4/3 10:38
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bill wrote:
This file is from 2005 where they anticipated the the signal upgrades would be completed 2010-2015.

33rd st signal upgrade completed last year, has the service times increased since?

Not sure when the WTC upgrade will be completed...


The signal upgrades are a federal mandate. PATH is not doing this to ease crowding on the trains. After the upgrades, PATH could run trains more frequently. Will they? No. I have been riding PATH for 14 years and every time there is a new timetable, PATH has ALWAYS decreased service. I could be wrong, but I've never seen it where PATH has actually increased service.

The weekend service used to be like the weekday service where the JSQ train didn't go through Hoboken. They switched to what is it today and said it would only be temporary while they build the 9/11 museum.

Posted on: 4/3 9:52
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jcresident16 wrote:
a flexible working schedule is not an option for everyone. yes, i was talking simply fitting into a train. 37,000 units seems like it will always be crowded in the mornings and afternoons, no matter how early you leave.

Who says 37k units (if one person ea.) will be taking the PATH ? I guess they'll cross that bridge or river when they come to it.


I am sure the majority of those units will be occupied by people attracted to JC by its amenities and job opportunities...

I am a HUGE JC booster, and I spend the vast majority of my free time locally, but let's get real. JC's number one allure for most people is its close proximity to NYC and its direct links that make for an easy, fast commute.

Posted on: 4/1 12:13
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a flexible working schedule is not an option for everyone. yes, i was talking simply fitting into a train. 37,000 units seems like it will always be crowded in the mornings and afternoons, no matter how early you leave.

Who says 37k units (if one person ea.) will be taking the PATH ? I guess they'll cross that bridge or river when they come to it.

Posted on: 4/1 10:41
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a flexible working schedule is not an option for everyone. yes, i was talking simply fitting into a train. 37,000 units seems like it will always be crowded in the mornings and afternoons, no matter how early you leave.

Posted on: 4/1 4:18
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val7101 wrote:
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val7101 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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val7101 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?

Guess you've never taken the path during rush hour.

I take it every work day, and on weekends as well. During rush hour.
I think you might be traveling in a parallel universe.


Quote:
You can't get IN the train.

Total nonsense. Even for Newport riders.

It can get a little crowded, but it is extremely rare that the train is so jammed you can't get on. When that does happen, there's usually a half-empty train right behind it.

You want crowded? Try the 4/5/6 during rush hour.


You are probably confusing the alternate universe you are traveling in with reality. Or else you are one of those people who just push into the train as long as they can get two toes in the door. Or just a troll on JC List with no actual experience. Lots of those lately.


The only time I've never been able to board a PATH train due to capacity issues was at 2am in the morning. Lol. Run more trains at night Port Authority!

The only time PATH is really bad is at 8:15-8:45am. I've seen people unable to board but they just get on the next one arriving 110 seconds later. If you don't like the crowds, leave 30 minutes earlier, or 30 minutes later if your work allows it.

Nothing but whine on JClist. Lol.


I take the 33rd PATH between 8.30 and 9am daily as well and don't experience this crazy overcrowding either. The only times i might not get in is when there are issues and the train frequency is not what it should be.

I ma not saying that the Port Authority could not do a better job managing the PATH (they clearly could) but the situation is not as dire as described on this thread...

Posted on: 4/1 0:14
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val7101 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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val7101 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?

Guess you've never taken the path during rush hour.

I take it every work day, and on weekends as well. During rush hour.
I think you might be traveling in a parallel universe.


Quote:
You can't get IN the train.

Total nonsense. Even for Newport riders.

It can get a little crowded, but it is extremely rare that the train is so jammed you can't get on. When that does happen, there's usually a half-empty train right behind it.

You want crowded? Try the 4/5/6 during rush hour.


You are probably confusing the alternate universe you are traveling in with reality. Or else you are one of those people who just push into the train as long as they can get two toes in the door. Or just a troll on JC List with no actual experience. Lots of those lately.


The only time I've never been able to board a PATH train due to capacity issues was at 2am in the morning. Lol. Run more trains at night Port Authority!

The only time PATH is really bad is at 8:15-8:45am. I've seen people unable to board but they just get on the next one arriving 110 seconds later. If you don't like the crowds, leave 30 minutes earlier, or 30 minutes later if your work allows it.

Nothing but whine on JClist. Lol.

Posted on: 3/31 13:54
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Dolomiti wrote:
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val7101 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?

Guess you've never taken the path during rush hour.

I take it every work day, and on weekends as well. During rush hour.
I think you might be traveling in a parallel universe.


Quote:
You can't get IN the train.

Total nonsense. Even for Newport riders.

It can get a little crowded, but it is extremely rare that the train is so jammed you can't get on. When that does happen, there's usually a half-empty train right behind it.

You want crowded? Try the 4/5/6 during rush hour.


You are probably confusing the alternate universe you are traveling in with reality. Or else you are one of those people who just push into the train as long as they can get two toes in the door. Or just a troll on JC List with no actual experience. Lots of those lately.

Posted on: 3/31 13:36
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?

Guess you've never taken the path during rush hour.

I take it every work day, and on weekends as well. During rush hour.
I think you might be traveling in a parallel universe.


Quote:
You can't get IN the train.

Total nonsense. Even for Newport riders.

It can get a little crowded, but it is extremely rare that the train is so jammed you can't get on. When that does happen, there's usually a half-empty train right behind it.

You want crowded? Try the 4/5/6 during rush hour.

Posted on: 3/31 13:31
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

jcresident16 wrote:
seems we won't be able to use the PATH... Recent article says it's 37,000 new units - how are we going to fit?

https://jerseydigs.com/jersey-city-real-estate-development-2017/


If nothing changes between now and 2019 or 2020, and the trains become so crowded you can't get on one heading to NYC by the time it arrives at Grove, just take ride it one station away to JSQ, stay seated and ride it back to NYC.

So you're going to add 20 minutes to your commute, just to get a seat?

Is that what people are fretting about -- not getting a seat in the mornings? Seriously?


Your reading comprehension is a little poor, as others have already pointed out.

As for your other posts on this thread, don't you find it somewhat thought provoking that your experience is so different from that of (seemingly) everyone else? You keep discounting people's observations as if they are coming here to post utter fantasies. I take the PATH at all times because my schedule is flexible enough that it allows me to do so, but I can tell you without any doubt or reservation that I have seen many people, on many occasions, not be able to get into a car because it is too packed. Of course, this is usually between the hours of 8 to 9, when the rush hour commute is worst.

Posted on: 3/31 13:25
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