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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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jerseymom wrote:
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Bill would allow towns to delay revaluations to curb 'fiscal shock'

Jersey City lawmakers in the state Legislature want to halt implementation of this year's property revaluation until 2019, citing the "fiscal shock" faced by property owners anticipating huge tax hikes.

The bill, (S-2566), would allow municipalities who did not apply reval results to tax bills before April 1 to postpone doing so until Jan. 1, 2019. The delay would allow for towns to provide "revaluation relief abatements" or "mitigate fiscal shock" from steep tax hikes. The bill was introduced last week.

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Well, it sure will be a shock for those Greenville owners who were expecting relief after overpaying for years and years supporting the downtowners.

Posted on: Today 13:11
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jerseymom wrote:
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Bill would allow towns to delay revaluations to curb 'fiscal shock'

Jersey City lawmakers in the state Legislature want to halt implementation of this year's property revaluation until 2019, citing the "fiscal shock" faced by property owners anticipating huge tax hikes.

The bill, (S-2566), would allow municipalities who did not apply reval results to tax bills before April 1 to postpone doing so until Jan. 1, 2019. The delay would allow for towns to provide "revaluation relief abatements" or "mitigate fiscal shock" from steep tax hikes. The bill was introduced last week.

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All the homeowners expecting a 2018 reduction need to hire a class action lawyer.

Posted on: Today 13:07
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By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Bill would allow towns to delay revaluations to curb 'fiscal shock'

Jersey City lawmakers in the state Legislature want to halt implementation of this year's property revaluation until 2019, citing the "fiscal shock" faced by property owners anticipating huge tax hikes.

The bill, (S-2566), would allow municipalities who did not apply reval results to tax bills before April 1 to postpone doing so until Jan. 1, 2019. The delay would allow for towns to provide "revaluation relief abatements" or "mitigate fiscal shock" from steep tax hikes. The bill was introduced last week.

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Posted on: Today 12:32
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Dolomiti wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??

Or, it just doesn't make sense.

The reval is done. Property tax changes are already getting rolled out. They won't roll everything back because of issues with vacant lots.


You seem to miss the point: lots of improved lots are seeing wildly different valuations, even when located immediately next to each other or within the same block. The point that some are making, including myself, is that assigning completely different values to the built upon lots opens the door for a legal challenge that could potentially delay, or stop, implementation of the reval results.

It's too late to stop the reval. It's over.

Also, think about what you're proposing:

1) The city loses in court and has to do the reval.
2) They pay a company to do the reval
3) They secretly order Appraisal Systems to use a formula that is completely screwy with land values, but the final values generally get within 15% of comp values for developed properties
4) They hope that enough people notice the issue with vacant land that they sue the city not to adjust those vacant properties, but to force another reval (even though Appraisal Systems could just rerun the numbers with a new set of formulas)
5) This happens months after the city has already published a lot of new valuations AND taken the heat from downtown residents AND seen property values in other parts of JC go up when taxes there go down AND discussed doing a follow-up reval in ~2 years.

Ever heard of Ockham's Razor? ;)


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How can the valuation company, or the city, justify that which defies logic or reason? That is, how can two lots (of similar size) in the same vicinity have totally different values?

I have no clue whatsoever. You'd have to ask Appraisal Systems. (201) 493-8530.


You keep bringing up empty lots, but I never brought those up, nor do I care about those in the least. As for the reval itself, I have always been for it (and have been open about that position for years now) and accurately predicted the overall results (massive increase in DT, some increases in JSQ, substantial decreases in BeLa and Greenville) but missed the mark on the final rate (originally, I had assumed/expected a rate of about 2%, and later something closer to 1.8%). I mention all of this to dispel any notion that I’m advocating against the reval, or the implementation of its results. It is precisely because I want to see the reval implemented that I worry (in the broad sense of the word) that they are botching some basic stuff. I don’t believe the city has engaged in some grand conspiracy to screw up the reval, but I do believe it is possible that there is little pressure to ensure the final step (implementation) is as clear and correct as possible, and that there are some powerful interests that would benefit from a further delay of the reval being implemented.

It simply doesn’t make sense for a professional appraisal company to come up with values out of thin air for a set of properties, and that the breakdown of those values (land and improvement) vary wildly between adjacent properties of similar lot size and conditions. This is the type of stuff that could be used for a legal challenge.

Posted on: 5/13 15:43
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??

Or, it just doesn't make sense.

The reval is done. Property tax changes are already getting rolled out. They won't roll everything back because of issues with vacant lots.


You seem to miss the point: lots of improved lots are seeing wildly different valuations, even when located immediately next to each other or within the same block. The point that some are making, including myself, is that assigning completely different values to the built upon lots opens the door for a legal challenge that could potentially delay, or stop, implementation of the reval results.

It's too late to stop the reval. It's over.

Also, think about what you're proposing:

1) The city loses in court and has to do the reval.
2) They pay a company to do the reval
3) They secretly order Appraisal Systems to use a formula that is completely screwy with land values, but the final values generally get within 15% of comp values for developed properties
4) They hope that enough people notice the issue with vacant land that they sue the city not to adjust those vacant properties, but to force another reval (even though Appraisal Systems could just rerun the numbers with a new set of formulas)
5) This happens months after the city has already published a lot of new valuations AND taken the heat from downtown residents AND seen property values in other parts of JC go up when taxes there go down AND discussed doing a follow-up reval in ~2 years.

Ever heard of Ockham's Razor? ;)


Quote:
How can the valuation company, or the city, justify that which defies logic or reason? That is, how can two lots (of similar size) in the same vicinity have totally different values?

I have no clue whatsoever. You'd have to ask Appraisal Systems. (201) 493-8530.

Posted on: 5/13 14:53
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Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??

Or, it just doesn't make sense.

The reval is done. Property tax changes are already getting rolled out. They won't roll everything back because of issues with vacant lots.


You seem to miss the point: lots of improved lots are seeing wildly different valuations, even when located immediately next to each other or within the same block. The point that some are making, including myself, is that assigning completely different values to the built upon lots opens the door for a legal challenge that could potentially delay, or stop, implementation of the reval results. How can the valuation company, or the city, justify that which defies logic or reason? That is, how can two lots (of similar size) in the same vicinity have totally different values?

Posted on: 5/13 14:25
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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??

Or, it just doesn't make sense.

The reval is done. Property tax changes are already getting rolled out. They won't roll everything back because of issues with vacant lots.

Posted on: 5/13 10:04
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bodhipooh wrote:

I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??


Intended or unintended, it seems like the administration is not motivated to do a good job of it. e.g. the city has not provided clear information on how to interpret the land + building values for condos in abated buildings. Figuring this out is my Saturday night activity.

Posted on: 5/12 20:01
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??


In Fulops world, it can never be too Machiavellian.

Posted on: 5/12 8:50
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brewster wrote:
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landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?


I hate to ever entertain, or partake in, conspiracy theories, but given the history of shenanigans related to this reval, and the powerful vested interests, one can’t help wonder if this botched implementation is perhaps a way to further delay the implementation of the reval results.

Too Machiavellian??

Posted on: 5/12 3:34
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landshark wrote:
2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k


I've been saying for a while the land valuations were going to be a mess. Clearly they don't use comps for empty land and they use an ass-backwards subtractive system for developed land.

I had thought that since abatements are not on the land, just on the improvements, that we would see tax increases from abated properties. Solomon said no that's not the way it works. Funny, huh?

Posted on: 5/11 23:48
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2018 assessments are posted on the NJ website. Vacant land was missing from the previous lists. As I expected look low from the ones I checked downtown.

239 Montgomery: Assessed at 375k but the neighboring property the same size has a land assessment of 765k

63 Mercer: Sold in 2016 for 3mm but assessed at 774k

208 Columbus: Sold in 2015 for 1.45mm but assessed at 727k

131 Morgan: Sold in 2016 for 1.98mm but assessed at 775k

Posted on: 5/11 17:25
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LoL. I would love to see a judge rule for the Ward E homeowners and then get slapped on appeal.

Posted on: 5/6 5:38
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Reval protest mounting downtown
Some residents considering a class action lawsuit

by Al Sullivan
Reporter staff writer
May 06, 2018 |

With the deadline approaching to appeal the property assessments given during the recent Jersey City revaluation, some downtown residents hope to take the issue to court in a class action lawsuit.

Although slow to start, the protest has picked up momentum over the last few weeks as downtown residents hardest hit with massive increases scramble to challenge the resulting spikes in their tax bills.

Ward E Councilman James Solomon said the issuing of property cards to residents, which signals the official end of the revaluation process, was due to start on May 1. This sets into motion the formal appeal process. Residents will have 45 days from when the cards are mailed to file an appeal with the Hudson County Tax Board.

“Van Vorst, Paulus Hook, and the Village neighborhoods were the hardest hit,” Solomon said. “Some of these residents have been there for 30, 40 even 50 years. It’s hard for them to have to sell and move out of a place they love.”

Solomon said some of these residents will be hit hard when the August tax bills come out.

Posted on: 5/6 1:52
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Downtown also had 17 total sales of 1-4 family homes, a 31% increase compared to the first quarter of 2017. However, Pure Properties’ latest market report shows that while more homes are for sale, prices haven’t taken a hit.


Perhaps this is why Fulop was walking back his comments on doing a second reval at a recent ward meeting?

Posted on: 5/5 15:38
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With Jersey City’s long-delayed revaluation finally complete and homeowners closer to paying their new rates, many questions remain as to what the effect on the real estate market will be. In their first 2018 quarterly report, Pure Properties takes a closer look.

Appraisal Systems, the company hired to conduct the revaluation, has released data that indicates the estimated tax increase in Downtown neighborhoods will be around 67% for 1-4 family homes and 24% for condominiums. The numbers are so daunting that Mayor Fulop has floated the idea of a “second revaluation” in 2019 due to changes that might take place in the market following the new rates. At least one fear about the health of Downtown’s marketplace appears to have materialized; Downtown Jersey City had a notable surge in 1-4 family homes coming to market during 2018’s first quarter, with the number listed Downtown increasing 238% from 13 in quarter one of 2017 to 44 in 2018’s first quarter.

Downtown also had 17 total sales of 1-4 family homes, a 31% increase compared to the first quarter of 2017. However, Pure Properties’ latest market report shows that while more homes are for sale, prices haven’t taken a hit. The median sales price for 1-4 family homes increased 2% from 2017’s first quarter to $1.425 million, while condo sale prices dipped 2% year-to-year to $721,000. Rents Downtown have thus far been unaffected by the tax upheaval, staying flat over the year to average $2,600/month.

Conversely, Greenville saw a spike in property values during the quarter. The neighborhood is expected to benefit from the revaluation in the form of lower tax bills, and the average sale price of 1-4 family homes in Jersey City’s most southern neighborhood jumped 17% in the quarter to $345,000. However, condo sales in the neighborhood dropped 25% over the year to an average of $307,500.

Jersey Digs

Posted on: 5/5 12:39
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LoraJ wrote:
My mortgage company pays my taxes. Will they be the ones to get the new tax amount from the city?


My mortgage company pays my taxes too (actually they contract it out). I still received my letter in the mail the same week I saw my property listed in ASI’s spreadsheet. I haven’t shared the letter with my mortgage company because these amounts are estimates and we haven’t actually been billed at the new amounts yet. When the new bills come out, my mortgage company will get it.


Did you need to sign for these tax letters - JC sent me something - I need to pick it up and sign for it...

Posted on: 5/1 22:32
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You mean like this?
Resized Image


or this?
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The Unconventional Allure of the Slender Dwelling
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/gre ... tions/23iht-reskinny.html

Google "skinny house", it's a thing. Why was it separate deed rather than a combined lot is the big question.

Posted on: 4/22 21:50
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HeightsNative wrote:
Ok I'll bite. So why do you own a lot that you can't build on?


It was sold as a package when I bought this beat-to-hell 3 family building back in '99.. My tenants use it for parking.

Posted on: 4/22 15:32
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Ok I'll bite. So why do you own a lot that you can't build on?

Posted on: 4/22 8:58
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heights wrote:
Vacant lots have more value then ones with houses on them.


I would agree with you except this lot in question can't be built on, due to its size (small), shape, and the lack of setbacks from adjoining buildings.

If I did put a 1 family on it, it would be one of those insanely skinny houses without about 7 ft of width in the interior. Basically, a multi-story closet.

Posted on: 4/22 7:27
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Vacant lots have more value then ones with houses on them. You don't have to buy a house to only knock it down in order to build a new house so it is more appealing that way.

Posted on: 4/21 19:57
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Got my vacant lot appraisal. Raised my taxes about 100%. I expected to go up given the higher land appraisals, but not that much. The lot is small, non-build, partially paved, and has room for about three cars.

Appraised value: about $124k

Seems kind of high to me.

Posted on: 4/21 7:26
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worm wrote:
Can anyone recommend an online site for comps between 10/1/16- 10/1/17? When I go on trulia, I can only find recent sales, is there some way to filter this so that I can see only sales in that window?


Use "advanced search" in step 4 on this page to set parameters of your search. Unfortunately it's harder to geographically limit than the RE sites, you have to dig through your results.

http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... istrict=0906&ms_user=monm

Posted on: 4/16 12:43
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Can anyone recommend an online site for comps between 10/1/16- 10/1/17? When I go on trulia, I can only find recent sales, is there some way to filter this so that I can see only sales in that window?

Posted on: 4/16 12:22
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FYI. The deadline for the appraisal company to complete valuations is May 1. The appeal deadline has been pushed to June. http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... o_file_tax_appeals_i.html

Posted on: 4/14 17:30
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Apparently the deadline for submitting an appeal is May 1st. At some point I saw a list of recommended attorneys that could assist with this - but now I can't find that.

Does anyone have a list of recommended attorneys to help with the tax appeal process?

Posted on: 4/10 12:47
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Exactly my point. The August and November bills will be the true up.

Posted on: 4/9 10:59
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

K-Lo2 wrote:
Doesn't the first big hit for those whose taxes have gone up come in August?

February, May, August, November?


Yes, but the catch is that the second half taxes will also include the overage (or, reduction) from the 1st half. So, for someone whose taxes may have been initially estimated at 9K, but the post reval taxes come in at 18K, their second half taxes would be 13.5K: 9K for (second half taxes) plus 4.5K (difference between correct first half payment, 9K, and the initially estimated 4.5K payment of the first half.) For those facing large increases, the second half of this year will be tough if they didn't plan accordingly.


Posted on: 4/9 10:27
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Doesn't the first big hit for those whose taxes have gone up come in August?

February, May, August, November?

Posted on: 4/9 9:14
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