JcDevil wrote:
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Wishful_Thinking wrote:
This report, which appeared in an article on Curbed NY, may shed some light. Even neighborhoods further away from midtown and downtown Manhattan (where most of the jobs, cultural and night life venues are located) are costly. I agree with those who say that proximity to Manhattan is the key, if not the sole, driver of DTJC real estate costs; and I think expanding this map to include JC would illustrate that:
http://streeteasy.com/blog/the-high-b ... possible-on-minimum-wage/

Oh, god, not this stupid report again. Not that your posting it is in any way problematic, just the incessant statistically-ignorant rehashing of it across the internet over the past couple days has been a total circle-jerk.

In any case, what I'm talking about has a lot more to do with why Williamsburg is nearly 50% more expensive than the Upper East Side. For all intents and purposes, the UES is more convenient to most of Manhattan than Williamsburg or Cobble Hill, but since they have both convenience to work and have their own "scene", they become much more desirable. People do want convenience of transport, but, if they have the means to afford it, most of them want to live somewhere that they enjoy as well.

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
This report, which appeared in an article on Curbed NY, may shed some light. Even neighborhoods further away from midtown and downtown Manhattan (where most of the jobs, cultural and night life venues are located) are costly. I agree with those who say that proximity to Manhattan is the key, if not the sole, driver of DTJC real estate costs; and I think expanding this map to include JC would illustrate that:
http://streeteasy.com/blog/the-high-b ... possible-on-minimum-wage/

JCMan8 wrote:

Has the Port Authority ever provided a reason for the "temporary" stopover in Hoboken other than Fuck you, that's why?

bodhipooh wrote:

Correlation does not imply causation. If you take away Manhattan, and all of NYC, Jersey City wouldn't be where it is right now. That is why even places like Bayonne, which have ZERO scene, are still enjoying a healthy growth; because of their proximity to NYC, and ease of transportation to get there. Yes, the local scene may tip the scales for someone deciding between, say, JC and Bayonne, but do not mistake that as the raison d'?tre for JC's growth and gentrification.

JcDevil wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:

So, I will say it one last time: People are NOT flocking to JC because of its scene. The vast majority of newcomers are choosing to move here because of proximity to NYC and the jobs there. Yes, there are other people moving for jobs elsewhere around NJ, but that's a lower number.

I think there's a part of his point that you're missing as well. Proximity to Manhattan and the jobs and social scene within is absolutely the primary driver of Jersey City's past and continued gentrification. But there are plenty of people, like myself, that are completely and totally uninterested in living in merely a bedroom community.

I would argue that the growth of Newport and the Waterfront over the past 10 years are primarily due to the proximity and cost, but demographics have clearly shifted to people that also want a local scene. That said, transportation is nonetheless paramount, and something needs to be done before it gets really bad.

WTC Transportation Hub will help get people on the less crowded (and soon to be longer) WTC-bound trains instead of the 33rds, but it's not enough. Moreover, late nights are completely absurd. I was on a packed-more-than-rush-hour train at 10:30 on a holiday Saturday a couple days ago. The idea that they think that every-15-mins and a stopover in Hoboken (where nearly nobody got off) is acceptable at that time is ridiculous. I'd have gone downtown, but then had to wait something even more absurd like 30 minutes for a WTC-NWK train.

JcDevil wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:

So, I will say it one last time: People are NOT flocking to JC because of its scene. The vast majority of newcomers are choosing to move here because of proximity to NYC and the jobs there. Yes, there are other people moving for jobs elsewhere around NJ, but that's a lower number.

I think there's a part of his point that you're missing as well. Proximity to Manhattan and the jobs and social scene within is absolutely the primary driver of Jersey City's past and continued gentrification. But there are plenty of people, like myself, that are completely and totally uninterested in living in merely a bedroom community.

I would argue that the growth of Newport and the Waterfront over the past 10 years are primarily due to the proximity and cost, but demographics have clearly shifted to people that also want a local scene. That said, transportation is nonetheless paramount, and something needs to be done before it gets really bad.

WTC Transportation Hub will help get people on the less crowded (and soon to be longer) WTC-bound trains instead of the 33rds, but it's not enough. Moreover, late nights are completely absurd. I was on a packed-more-than-rush-hour train at 10:30 on a holiday Saturday a couple days ago. The idea that they think that every-15-mins and a stopover in Hoboken (where nearly nobody got off) is acceptable at that time is ridiculous. I'd have gone downtown, but then had to wait something even more absurd like 30 minutes for a WTC-NWK train.

bodhipooh wrote:

So, I will say it one last time: People are NOT flocking to JC because of its scene. The vast majority of newcomers are choosing to move here because of proximity to NYC and the jobs there. Yes, there are other people moving for jobs elsewhere around NJ, but that's a lower number.

hero69 wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

In two years once the tens of thousands of new units are up in JSQ and DTJC, moving to Harrison comes with the added bonus of being able to get on the PATH train. Because these trains will be packed to the gills before they leave JSQ.

lol. people don't understand sh_t. I don't think dtjc ha anything to fear from jsq or Harrison (I wish these areas the best). if I don't want to deal with crowded path, I can just hop on the ferry or leave earlier and dtjc is developing its own scene, which is an added bonus!

Leaving earlier is not a viable solution for everyone. And, even if it was, the return would still be a major pain. I have been noticing ever more crowding in the afternoons, and early evenings. The problem with the ferries is that it is very costly (three times the cost of a PATH ride!) and it runs limited hours. For people who need to be at work late, or whose day starts late, the ferry is simply not a good option.

As for DTJC developing "its own scene"... who cares? Despite what others would rather believe, most of the newcomers are flocking here because of proximity to Manhattan and other parts of NYC. Easy transportation to NYC is key to the long term prospects of JC.

it's a shame some people are so narrow minded. some people like a scene, some don't. some people will want to live in a place that has a scene, a vibe.

Sigh. You are missing the point. Or, you are seriously deluded. People are not flocking to JC because of its "scene". Whatever scene we have is just an added bonus. I love JC and the many things happening in town. Good restaurants, plenty of places where to grab a beer, the various farmer markets, etc. In general, I rarely go into Manhattan on weekends and instead choose to stay local. But, I didn't come to JC because of any of that. I made a decision to come here because I could pay a nice rent on a nice place that puts me at work in very little time. The local stuff was just a cherry on top.

first, I said some people and second restaurants and other stuff constitute a scene....and yes, there are people who choose to live where there are restaurants, bars, clubs, etc. perhaps you or your acquaintances would not, but that does not make my point invalid

jcguy05 wrote:
Seems all rentals, i was interested in investment opportunities in a condo or townhome but doesnt look like to be any.

all the houses for sale are north harrison, not by the riverbbend area.

bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

In two years once the tens of thousands of new units are up in JSQ and DTJC, moving to Harrison comes with the added bonus of being able to get on the PATH train. Because these trains will be packed to the gills before they leave JSQ.

lol. people don't understand sh_t. I don't think dtjc ha anything to fear from jsq or Harrison (I wish these areas the best). if I don't want to deal with crowded path, I can just hop on the ferry or leave earlier and dtjc is developing its own scene, which is an added bonus!

Leaving earlier is not a viable solution for everyone. And, even if it was, the return would still be a major pain. I have been noticing ever more crowding in the afternoons, and early evenings. The problem with the ferries is that it is very costly (three times the cost of a PATH ride!) and it runs limited hours. For people who need to be at work late, or whose day starts late, the ferry is simply not a good option.

As for DTJC developing "its own scene"... who cares? Despite what others would rather believe, most of the newcomers are flocking here because of proximity to Manhattan and other parts of NYC. Easy transportation to NYC is key to the long term prospects of JC.

it's a shame some people are so narrow minded. some people like a scene, some don't. some people will want to live in a place that has a scene, a vibe.

Sigh. You are missing the point. Or, you are seriously deluded. People are not flocking to JC because of its "scene". Whatever scene we have is just an added bonus. I love JC and the many things happening in town. Good restaurants, plenty of places where to grab a beer, the various farmer markets, etc. In general, I rarely go into Manhattan on weekends and instead choose to stay local. But, I didn't come to JC because of any of that. I made a decision to come here because I could pay a nice rent on a nice place that puts me at work in very little time. The local stuff was just a cherry on top.

tern wrote:
The Red Bulls stadium has replaced a chunk of the old warehouses.

Robin.

jcguy05 wrote:
Has harrison really changed that much?

bodhipooh wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

I am not sure that Harrison is yet attracting large volumes of people, but I have no doubt it will be a draw soon. For one, it is a "nicer" area than other JC areas currently lagging in their gentrification process. Throw in the approved new PATH station ($500 million!!) and all the new construction happening in the immediate vicinity of the PATH station, and I can see people choosing to go there instead of JSQ or BeLa. And, I say this as a HUGE fan of DTJC and the BeLa neighborhood. Sadly, BeLa just can't seem to catch a break. Every time you see some progress, things just slow down after a while. JSQ is very rough around the edges and the Heights has its transportation / proximity issues.

vindication15 wrote:
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jcwalkingman wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:

Safer? No
http://www.areavibes.com/harrison-nj/crime/

http://www.areavibes.com/jersey+city-nj/downtown/crime/

Look at the chances of being a victim of violent crime and property crime in both areas.

If space is what you are looking for, I hear you can get a lot of space in tulsa oklahoma..

I know a colleague who moved from Manhattan back to the south with his family. I should mention that he got laid off...

So yeah, I guess it does depend on circumstances..

Did you even look at the numbers? Why did you post something that completely disproves your point? LOL


Downtown Jersey City:
Murders per 100,000: 8
Rapes per 100,000: 14
Assault per 100,000: 344
Violent crime per 100,000: 644

Harrison:
Murders per 100,000: 0
Rapes per 100,000: 0
Assault per 100,000: 222 (35% lower than downtown Jersey City's rate)
Violent crime per 100,000: 451

You are TOO funny.


As for condos coming online next year, Oakman is aiming for Dec 2016, and 213-215 Bay should be complete by that time too. It sounds like Gulls Cove II will be complete by Spring 2017, and Provost Square phase II is looking like early 2018.

You work for fox news? Way to distort the facts. First of all, there is more than two times more people in dtjc than harrison (15k versus 37k) so of course the overall number is lower.

What you want to know, and I said it in my earlier post, is the percentage of chance you are likely to be a victim. In harrison it is higher..

The chance of being a victim of violent crime in Harrison is 1 in 222. In DTJC, it is 1 in 288.

The chance of being a victim of crime in Harrison is 1 in 38. In DTJC, it is 1 in 74.

hero69 wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

In two years once the tens of thousands of new units are up in JSQ and DTJC, moving to Harrison comes with the added bonus of being able to get on the PATH train. Because these trains will be packed to the gills before they leave JSQ.

lol. people don't understand sh_t. I don't think dtjc ha anything to fear from jsq or Harrison (I wish these areas the best). if I don't want to deal with crowded path, I can just hop on the ferry or leave earlier and dtjc is developing its own scene, which is an added bonus!

Leaving earlier is not a viable solution for everyone. And, even if it was, the return would still be a major pain. I have been noticing ever more crowding in the afternoons, and early evenings. The problem with the ferries is that it is very costly (three times the cost of a PATH ride!) and it runs limited hours. For people who need to be at work late, or whose day starts late, the ferry is simply not a good option.

As for DTJC developing "its own scene"... who cares? Despite what others would rather believe, most of the newcomers are flocking here because of proximity to Manhattan and other parts of NYC. Easy transportation to NYC is key to the long term prospects of JC.

it's a shame some people are so narrow minded. some people like a scene, some don't. some people will want to live in a place that has a scene, a vibe.

hero69 wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

In two years once the tens of thousands of new units are up in JSQ and DTJC, moving to Harrison comes with the added bonus of being able to get on the PATH train. Because these trains will be packed to the gills before they leave JSQ.

lol. people don't understand sh_t. I don't think dtjc ha anything to fear from jsq or Harrison (I wish these areas the best). if I don't want to deal with crowded path, I can just hop on the ferry or leave earlier and dtjc is developing its own scene, which is an added bonus!

Leaving earlier is not a viable solution for everyone. And, even if it was, the return would still be a major pain. I have been noticing ever more crowding in the afternoons, and early evenings. The problem with the ferries is that it is very costly (three times the cost of a PATH ride!) and it runs limited hours. For people who need to be at work late, or whose day starts late, the ferry is simply not a good option.

As for DTJC developing "its own scene"... who cares? Despite what others would rather believe, most of the newcomers are flocking here because of proximity to Manhattan and other parts of NYC. Easy transportation to NYC is key to the long term prospects of JC.

it's a shame some people are so narrow minded. some people like a scene, some don't. some people will want to live in a place that has a scene, a vibe.

vindication15 wrote:
READ THE ENTIRE PAGE. sigh. The info is on the page

http://www.areavibes.com/harrison-nj/crime/

http://www.areavibes.com/jersey+city-nj/downtown/crime/

and it is absolute numbers.

bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

In two years once the tens of thousands of new units are up in JSQ and DTJC, moving to Harrison comes with the added bonus of being able to get on the PATH train. Because these trains will be packed to the gills before they leave JSQ.

lol. people don't understand sh_t. I don't think dtjc ha anything to fear from jsq or Harrison (I wish these areas the best). if I don't want to deal with crowded path, I can just hop on the ferry or leave earlier and dtjc is developing its own scene, which is an added bonus!

Leaving earlier is not a viable solution for everyone. And, even if it was, the return would still be a major pain. I have been noticing ever more crowding in the afternoons, and early evenings. The problem with the ferries is that it is very costly (three times the cost of a PATH ride!) and it runs limited hours. For people who need to be at work late, or whose day starts late, the ferry is simply not a good option.

As for DTJC developing "its own scene"... who cares? Despite what others would rather believe, most of the newcomers are flocking here because of proximity to Manhattan and other parts of NYC. Easy transportation to NYC is key to the long term prospects of JC.

Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
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jcwalkingman wrote:
Did you even look at the numbers? Why did you post something that completely disproves your point? LOL


Downtown Jersey City:
Murders per 100,000: 8
Rapes per 100,000: 14
Assault per 100,000: 344
Violent crime per 100,000: 644

Harrison:
Murders per 100,000: 0
Rapes per 100,000: 0
Assault per 100,000: 222 (35% lower than downtown Jersey City's rate)
Violent crime per 100,000: 451

You are TOO funny.


As for condos coming online next year, Oakman is aiming for Dec 2016, and 213-215 Bay should be complete by that time too. It sounds like Gulls Cove II will be complete by Spring 2017, and Provost Square phase II is looking like early 2018.

You work for fox news? Way to distort the facts. First of all, there is more than two times more people in dtjc than harrison....

JCW was talking about rates, not absolute numbers. Crime rates are a reasonably good way to compare the relative safety of two areas.

The differences between DTJC and Harrison aren't that big. However, it does appear that Harrison is slightly safer.

We should note that both are slightly safer than Manhattan.


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What you want to know, and I said it in my earlier post, is the percentage of chance you are likely to be a victim. In harrison it is higher..

The chance of being a victim of violent crime in Harrison is 1 in 222. In DTJC, it is 1 in 288.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. I'm not even sure how you came up with those numbers, unless you conflated a rate with absolute counts.

FYI, Journal Square has a higher crime rate than both of those areas, around 737 per 100k. For perspective, Camden is around 2,566 violent crimes per 100k.

You are slightly more likely to be the victim of a violent crime in DTJC than Harrison. Not much, just a little.

I don't think the difference is big enough to draw anyone to Harrison over DTJC. But people may currently prefer Harrison over Journal Square.

bodhipooh wrote:

As for DTJC developing "its own scene"... who cares? Despite what others would rather believe, most of the newcomers are flocking here because of proximity to Manhattan and other parts of NYC. Easy transportation to NYC is key to the long term prospects of JC.

vindication15 wrote:
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jcwalkingman wrote:
Did you even look at the numbers? Why did you post something that completely disproves your point? LOL


Downtown Jersey City:
Murders per 100,000: 8
Rapes per 100,000: 14
Assault per 100,000: 344
Violent crime per 100,000: 644

Harrison:
Murders per 100,000: 0
Rapes per 100,000: 0
Assault per 100,000: 222 (35% lower than downtown Jersey City's rate)
Violent crime per 100,000: 451

You are TOO funny.


As for condos coming online next year, Oakman is aiming for Dec 2016, and 213-215 Bay should be complete by that time too. It sounds like Gulls Cove II will be complete by Spring 2017, and Provost Square phase II is looking like early 2018.

You work for fox news? Way to distort the facts. First of all, there is more than two times more people in dtjc than harrison....

What you want to know, and I said it in my earlier post, is the percentage of chance you are likely to be a victim. In harrison it is higher..

The chance of being a victim of violent crime in Harrison is 1 in 222. In DTJC, it is 1 in 288.

hero69 wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

In two years once the tens of thousands of new units are up in JSQ and DTJC, moving to Harrison comes with the added bonus of being able to get on the PATH train. Because these trains will be packed to the gills before they leave JSQ.

lol. people don't understand sh_t. I don't think dtjc ha anything to fear from jsq or Harrison (I wish these areas the best). if I don't want to deal with crowded path, I can just hop on the ferry or leave earlier and dtjc is developing its own scene, which is an added bonus!

JCMan8 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
Lol. No one is choosing between harrison or dtjc. That choice is like saying to your kids, "hey, want to go to a waterpark or want to close your eyes and let me spray you with a garden hose?"

I for one disagree. It's a little further out, but still accessible via PATH. People who can't afford downtown JC will likly now look at JSQ and Harrison.

In two years once the tens of thousands of new units are up in JSQ and DTJC, moving to Harrison comes with the added bonus of being able to get on the PATH train. Because these trains will be packed to the gills before they leave JSQ.

jcwalkingman wrote:
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T-Bird wrote:
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jcwalkingman wrote:
It sounds like Gulls Cove II will be complete by Spring 2017.

YOU are TOO funny!

Pre-construction sales not going well?