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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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Blah blah blah ha ha ha primary elections june 7 la la la

Posted on: 2011/6/2 22:04
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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borisp wrote:
How do you mean "lie"? If it quacks like socialist, if it walks like socialist, if it calls itself "socialists workers party", - it is socialist.

What's not socialistic? Declaration that human rights are secondary to the "Common Good"? Check. Declaration that The Party knows what "Common Good" is? Check. Declaration that the Government should direct the economy and decide, for the sake of the "Common Good", how to allocate and redistribute? Check. Social programs? Check. Identity politics? Hell, yeah! Check!

Where's the lie? In the fact that Russian socialists went ALL THE WAY? Well, yes. This is why we call them "Communists", - because they went all the way down that road.

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Putin is the same centuries old Russian despotism and corruption with the 70 year veneer of Bolshevism ripped off. It's always all about power, money, and oligarchy.



Ah. I see. And Brezhnev was all about... True Good of The People? Khrushev was about freedom and unicorns?

Putin is more openly corrupt, and that's it. He rules with the same pronouncements that The Government must control the everything for the sake of Common Good.


You're so sold on the designer label you can't see the goods are and have always been the same old crap. The "common good" was and is always what was good for those in power, whether under the USSR Stalin or today's China. "communism" is a perfect ideal, just as "democracy" is. They no more had communism than we have a real democracy, as opposed to a republic. What they had was simply autocracy no different than the Czars over the serfs, except the oligarchs were the Party rather than the aristocracy. Do you believe Assad or Qaddafi aren't dictators simply because they choose to label themselves "president"?

Get over the "socialism" boogieman. Americans have loved their socialism since the New Deal. The only ones who want to cut them are either wealthy or clueless. Here's the poll link that was damaged in pasting http://tiny.cc/7s1ae

Posted on: 2011/6/2 16:45
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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Adonis wrote:
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borisp wrote:
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Vigilante wrote:
Some people try to sell her as a down home, simple truths, Mr Smith Goes to Washington type when in reality she is the Beverly Hillbillies try to fly a 747 type.


Oh, I agree. She is not true intellectual thinker like people here.




LOL!!!!


You laugh but yes, not as intellectual as many people here. Sad but true.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 16:19
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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CSURugbyHooker wrote:

Youbetcha! Considering she wore the Star of David in Israel and now when touring NYC, I'd say she's (hopelessly) pandering to:
1. The large Jewish population of the city.
2. Evangelical Christians.
Solidarity with Israel is all the rage these days.


Which is really weird, given the "blood libel" she and other conservatives suffered at the hands of the media after the Gabrielle Gifford shooting.

?The blood libel is something anti-Semites have historically used in Europe as an excuse to murder Jews ? the comparison is stupid. Jews and rational people will find it objectionable,? said Hank Sheinkopf, a New York-based Democratic political consultant and devout Jew. ?This will forever link her to the events in Tucson. It deepens the hole she?s already dug for herself. ? It?s absolutely inappropriate.? (see: The Arena: Palin's 'blood libel' defense fair?)

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47477.html#ixzz1O8V4AyoP

Posted on: 2011/6/2 16:18
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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borisp wrote:
However, would you care to give an example of said "pandering and exploitative ideology"?


Youbetcha! Considering she wore the Star of David in Israel and now when touring NYC, I'd say she's (hopelessly) pandering to:
1. The large Jewish population of the city.
2. Evangelical Christians.
Solidarity with Israel is all the rage these days.

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Posted on: 2011/6/2 16:03
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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borisp wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Some people try to sell her as a down home, simple truths, Mr Smith Goes to Washington type when in reality she is the Beverly Hillbillies try to fly a 747 type.


Oh, I agree. She is not true intellectual thinker like people here.




LOL!!!!

Posted on: 2011/6/2 13:59
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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brewster wrote:
[quote]Hitler and Putin socialists!! Good grief!! National Socialism was just another Big Lie like i was talking about!


How do you mean "lie"? If it quacks like socialist, if it walks like socialist, if it calls itself "socialists workers party", - it is socialist.

What's not socialistic? Declaration that human rights are secondary to the "Common Good"? Check. Declaration that The Party knows what "Common Good" is? Check. Declaration that the Government should direct the economy and decide, for the sake of the "Common Good", how to allocate and redistribute? Check. Social programs? Check. Identity politics? Hell, yeah! Check!

Where's the lie? In the fact that Russian socialists went ALL THE WAY? Well, yes. This is why we call them "Communists", - because they went all the way down that road.

Quote:
Putin is the same centuries old Russian despotism and corruption with the 70 year veneer of Bolshevism ripped off. It's always all about power, money, and oligarchy.



Ah. I see. And Brezhnev was all about... True Good of The People? Khrushev was about freedom and unicorns?

Putin is more openly corrupt, and that's it. He rules with the same pronouncements that The Government must control the everything for the sake of Common Good.

Quote:
Seriously? The seniors who thought they were supporting fiscal responsibility are fleeing the movement when someone actually proposes cutting SS or medicare.

According to this Marist poll 70% of tea bagger oppose cuts to Medicare & Medicaid.
First, I can't really look at the poll without a link. Second, the only polls that matter are elections.

Now, as far as what is proposed, - yes, not all Tea Party people think similarly and not all the time. It is not a PARTY party, you know.

I imagine, that should happen when the opponents flood the media with ads claiming that Paul Ryan wants to kill women and throw elderly off the cliff.

However, do not despair, - American economy is extremely resilient. Even if Tea Party will not be able to stop the entitlements+deficit catastrophe, - we will recover afterwords.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 11:16
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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borisp wrote:
Putin is not very well informed, - judging by the Dan Rather episode, for instance. And he is not all that coherent.

However, how did those socialists enter this conversion?


hee hee. Hahahahahahah!! Hitler and Putin socialists!! Good grief!! National Socialism was just another Big Lie like i was talking about! Putin is the same centuries old Russian despotism and corruption with the 70 year veneer of Bolshevism ripped off. It's always all about power, money, and oligarchy.

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As far as I heard, they [tea partiers] target entitlements. Where are you getting your information from?


Seriously? The seniors who thought they were supporting fiscal responsibility are fleeing the movement when someone actually proposes cutting SS or medicare.

According to this Marist poll 70% of tea bagger oppose cuts to Medicare & Medicaid.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-conte ... 20Complete%20April%2018th,%202011%20USA%20Poll%20Tables.pdf

Posted on: 2011/6/2 6:27
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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brewster wrote:
Ummm, there's plenty of demagogues and despots who fit that category, from Hitler to Putin.


Putin is not very well informed, - judging by the Dan Rather episode, for instance. And he is not all that coherent.

However, how did those socialists enter this conversion?


Quote:
She's incapable of actual interactive dialog, the interviews & debates made that clear, she can only regurgitate talking points, usually unrelated to the question asked.


What do you mean by "regurgitate talking point"?

For example, if I ask someone for a quote, and instead my opponent repeats the statement, - does it qualify as "regurgitation of a talking point"?


Quote:
They tell people they can cut government spending but not touch entitlements or the military.


As far as I heard, they target entitlements. Where are you getting your information from?

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These are all Palin's people, the ones who believe in fairies, the rapture, the birther myth, that Saddam was behind 9/11


You just can't help it, do you ? )

You are trying, and trying, and trying, - and all you can deliver is a stream of invectives, insinuations, name calling and so on.

And you claim that PALIN is "regurgitating"?

Posted on: 2011/6/2 4:57
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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brewster wrote:
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borisp wrote:
Yeah, right ON! Coherent and informed! Who would not despise THAT combination!


Ummm, there's plenty of demagogues and despots who fit that category, from Hitler to Putin. No one ever said being smart and educated kept one from being evil or misguided.

Quote:
"Scripted" - sure. I hate those politico's with their teleprompters!

However, would you care to give an example of said "pandering and exploitative ideology"?


She's incapable of actual interactive dialog, the interviews & debates made that clear, she can only regurgitate talking points, usually unrelated to the question asked. As for P & E, why, that's the whole leadership of the Tea Baggers. They tell people they can cut government spending but not touch entitlements or the military. If you eliminated the entire nonmilitary discretionary budget we'd still have a deficit. The USA, financially speaking, is an insurance company with an army, but the Tea Baggers think we blow it all on NPR, welfare queens and abortion clinics.

These are all Palin's people, the ones who believe in fairies, the rapture, the birther myth, that Saddam was behind 9/11, that they'll ever pay estate tax, that "Joe the Plumber" would ever make $250k, the list of crap that is shoved down their credulous throats is endless. There's an entire well financed industry devoted to using social issues and bad math to get working class people to vote against their own interest, because if they didn't, the GOP would never win an election again. That's exploitative.


DOWN GOES BORISP!!

Posted on: 2011/6/2 4:53
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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borisp wrote:
Yeah, right ON! Coherent and informed! Who would not despise THAT combination!


Ummm, there's plenty of demagogues and despots who fit that category, from Hitler to Putin. No one ever said being smart and educated kept one from being evil or misguided.

Quote:
"Scripted" - sure. I hate those politico's with their teleprompters!

However, would you care to give an example of said "pandering and exploitative ideology"?


She's incapable of actual interactive dialog, the interviews & debates made that clear, she can only regurgitate talking points, usually unrelated to the question asked. As for P & E, why, that's the whole leadership of the Tea Baggers. They tell people they can cut government spending but not touch entitlements or the military. If you eliminated the entire nonmilitary discretionary budget we'd still have a deficit. The USA, financially speaking, is an insurance company with an army, but the Tea Baggers think we blow it all on NPR, welfare queens and abortion clinics.

These are all Palin's people, the ones who believe in fairies, the rapture, the birther myth, that Saddam was behind 9/11, that they'll ever pay estate tax, that "Joe the Plumber" would ever make $250k, the list of crap that is shoved down their credulous throats is endless. There's an entire well financed industry devoted to using social issues and bad math to get working class people to vote against their own interest, because if they didn't, the GOP would never win an election again. That's exploitative.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 4:27
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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borisp wrote:
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sepecat wrote:
What's with all the photoshops?


Vodoo.


Hi Bristol!

Posted on: 2011/6/2 3:13
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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sepecat wrote:
What's with all the photoshops?


Vodoo.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 2:47
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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Vigilante wrote:
Some people try to sell her as a down home, simple truths, Mr Smith Goes to Washington type when in reality she is the Beverly Hillbillies try to fly a 747 type.


Oh, I agree. She is not true intellectual thinker like people here.

I mean, - compare the intellectual power, the penetrative depths, the sheer erudition of your arguments for example, - with her simplistic rhetoric. Laughable.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 2:44
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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brewster wrote:
Much as I despise Limbaugh, she could never do what he does, hold forth every day with relatively coherent and informed monologues


Yeah, right ON! Coherent and informed! Who would not despise THAT combination!

Quote:
She has nothing to temper her profound ignorance but a scripted, pandering and exploitative ideology aimed directly at our citizens as ignorant as she.


"Scripted" - sure. I hate those politico's with their teleprompters!

However, would you care to give an example of said "pandering and exploitative ideology"?

Posted on: 2011/6/2 2:39
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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T-Bird wrote:
1a. She quit so the "frivolous ethics claims" would stop. Her words.


Fine. If this is the case, here is her resignation speech. Feel free to give me the quote.

Quote:
1b. She has no "achievements" other than to become a cultural icon. She has no policy nor meaningful political achievements. Not sure what you can't understand about that.


Oh, THAT I can understand.

Also, I can understand when someone from the left explains how all of the Republican party is in the hands of Tea Party and Palin.

What I am having difficulty with, - is reconciling these two talking points.

Quote:
2. I suspect you are being willfully obtuse here - you cannot deny she was put forth as a candidate because she was a woman. There were easily a dozen male Republicans with vastly greater qualifications - some of them just as conservative as Palin.


Ok, I am going to trust you here.

On the other hand... you know what? Trust - but verify. So, among those "just as conservative" male candidates, - who was the most conservative of the bunch?

Give me an example?

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3. People get paid money for all sorts of things - doesn't mean it is earned. Farmers get paid to not grow crops.


Oh, yes, - it may be a gift. It may be a government handout.
Palin's earning are neither.

Quote:
I'm not saying she doesn't have a following and I recognize she generates some level of ratings - again, that is a reflection of her status as a popular figure. You can't honestly tell me you listen to her as a political figure/leader


Oh, come on!

"yes, lot's of people listen to her and follow her lead but that does not make her a leader"?

THIS is your logic?

Quote:
4. You couldn't be more wrong - maybe two and a half years ago, but she's a stale punchline at this point.


Funny, how much time you are willing to spend trying to prove how uninteresting she is, isn't it?

I mean, have you ever seen a Republican, who would spend more than a shoulder shrug hearing the news that Walter Mondale, or John Kerry, or Al Gore visited his city?

Quote:
5. I can't understand a word of this.


No problem. You claimed that she is thin-skinned. I reminded you of all the personal - very personal attacks that she had weathered, and kept smiling. On the other hand, I gave you an example of someone really thin-skinned.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 2:34
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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Some people try to sell her as a down home, simple truths, Mr Smith Goes to Washington type when in reality she is the Beverly Hillbillies try to fly a 747 type.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 2:11
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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sepecat wrote:
What's with all the photoshops?
Because we can....ain't it fun?

Posted on: 2011/6/2 1:33
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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Well if the simplest explanation wasnt the most likely to be true, then I would have bet she was an entertainer being funded by the DNC.

My guess is that in reality her selection as VP was a case of bad politcal strategy group think by a group of people who were hired last minute to help a bankrupt McCain turn around a losing primary while failing to realize what McCain needed to win the primary was totally different than what he needed to win the general against Obama. She was way out of her league for VP but had something that works for celebrity - most people love her or hate her. She's capitalizing on it and laughing all the way to the bank.

And I completely agree with Tbird noone wishes she would go away more than the likes of Karl Rove. He's basically said as much in Op-eds.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 1:33
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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What's with all the photoshops?

Posted on: 2011/6/2 1:08
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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One more for Adonis.


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Posted on: 2011/6/2 0:43
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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Adonis wrote:
Quote:

Um, McFly, hello?? The 2008 presidential election proved that all you need to be is a cultural icon in order to win the White House. Or at least that's all you need to be to appeal to Democratic voters.


It wasn't so much that Obama was a cultural icon as much as it was that he had a pulse and he wasn't Bush II. The only person the dems could have rolled out there that would have cost them the election is Jesse Jackson.

As an aside, I saw a very disheveled looking panhandler at the 14th/6th L train two years ago with a hand-written shirt that said, "I voted for change and all I got was this lousy President." I almost pissed myself laughing so hard.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 0:24
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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It's got nothing to do with Palin's politicial standing and everything to do with the basic and real fact she is a STUPID person and no matter how her 'handlers' teach her things, she still manages to suffer from foot in mouth disease. STUPID is as STUPID does !

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I love the 'over the top' star of david around her neck - Can't wait until someone ask's her a Jewish question - It will be like a slow motion car wreck waiting for an answer !

I'll have a meat lover's pizza please !

Posted on: 2011/6/1 23:02
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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In the end, I'm with mrasg1 - she has a book to peddle and ratings to drive. Until she says otherwise, it's an elaborate book tour. If she wants to run, I'm happy to stump for her in New Jersey. I disagree with you, Brewster - there are more people on the right who fear her than on the left. The Karl Roves and George Wills of the world are never going to get in bed with her. Interesting Politico article on Palin and the conservatives, entitled Palin becoming an Alaskan Al Sharpton

Posted on: 2011/6/1 22:37
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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T-Bird wrote:
If you say she is a cultural figure, in the way Rush Limbaugh, Geraldo Rivera and Simon Cowell are, that's a different equation.


Much as I despise Limbaugh, she could never do what he does, hold forth every day with relatively coherent and informed monologues, however selective of the facts they may be. She has nothing to temper her profound ignorance but a scripted, pandering and exploitative ideology aimed directly at our citizens as ignorant as she.

As for fearing her, damn straight I do. I believed both GWB & Obama were unelectable too. The power of our political media machine to create mythologies on relatively blank slates is not to be underestimated. And there's no blanker slate than Palin.

Posted on: 2011/6/1 22:06
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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T-Bird wrote:
1b. She has no "achievements" other than to become a cultural icon. She has no policy nor meaningful political achievements. Not sure what you can't understand about that.


Um, McFly, hello?? The 2008 presidential election proved that all you need to be is a cultural icon in order to win the White House. Or at least that's all you need to be to appeal to Democratic voters.

Posted on: 2011/6/1 21:08
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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borisp wrote:

4. I do not think that "liberals fear Palin", - I observe it. There are very, very, very few politicians that trigger this kind of hateful response from their opponents.


You're absolutely right. Just look at the response from all the liberals in this thread, and the lack of postings in the rest of JC List for that matter. We got Jesse Jackson (who is guilty of a lot worse than Sarah Palin has ever done) appearing in downtown JC today and that thread on JC List has got little attention.

But along comes Sarah Palin to JC and all the haters come out of the woodwork with their sexist insults and stereotypical digital caricatures. Can you imagine if I posted stereotypical caricatures of Jesse Jackson or Obama on JC List. They'd be up for about two seconds before the webmaster removes them.

Liberals fear Palin because they have nothing on her. She's no Anthony Weiner after all. So the best they can do is simply make fun of her.

Posted on: 2011/6/1 21:03
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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1a. She quit so the "frivolous ethics claims" would stop. Her words. Why would anyone care to pursue her for whatever her other crimes may (or may not) have been once they had achieved their goal? The Clintons went through far worse for much, much longer - and none of the things they were investigated for were ever proved to be true. (Lewinsky was never the subject of an investigation - merely the byproduct of the unlimited quest to make Whitewater into something. That the Lewinsky incident became the sole justification for a baseless $57 million, 5 and a half-year exercise in petulance over the 1992 election speaks volumes for the people behind it. And I say that never having voted for either Clinton.)

1b. She has no "achievements" other than to become a cultural icon. She has no policy nor meaningful political achievements. Not sure what you can't understand about that.

2. I suspect you are being willfully obtuse here - you cannot deny she was put forth as a candidate because she was a woman. There were easily a dozen male Republicans with vastly greater qualifications - some of them just as conservative as Palin. And Palin came with no geographic uplift. Alaska is small and safely Republican. You also can't ignore the visceral reaction women have (for and against) to her. That she was quick to praise Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton - the first politicians she mentioned upon being named as the running mate - defined her as "the woman candidate". Kind of had to, since she had nothing much else to run on.

3. People get paid money for all sorts of things - doesn't mean it is earned. Farmers get paid to not grow crops. I'm not saying she doesn't have a following and I recognize she generates some level of ratings - again, that is a reflection of her status as a popular figure. You can't honestly tell me you listen to her as a political figure/leader - if so, please tell me her substantive (not soundbyte "gotcha" phrases) on any current issue. You pick the issue. Just one. Please. I'd love to know she has one.

4. You couldn't be more wrong - maybe two and a half years ago, but she's a stale punchline at this point. If she is able to generate a reaction of any sort, it's probably through hate mongering.

5. I can't understand a word of this.

Posted on: 2011/6/1 20:55
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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T-Bird wrote:
No - she wasn't forced to resign. Worse, she played the victim - a Palin hallmark. She claimed she was quitting because she had to spend too much time defending herself against "frivolous ethics claims". Clinton, Bush and Obama all dealt with this on a level probably ten to a thousand times greater, all the while running the country - a task considerably greater than running Alaska. So on what terms do we measure her "success"? Is she successful compared to other PTA presidents and town council members of 9,000 people municipalities? Sure. Is she successful compared to people on both sides of the political divide who have real accomplishments and lengthy experience at the national level? Are you really going to make that claim?

I wasn't defining her as a woman nor making any claims about her qualifications that she herself didn't make. Hockey Mom and Pit bull with lipstick were how she chose to introduce herself to the country. She could have talked about her past accomplishments, her education, her commitment to certain issues. No, she talked about her uterus.

And again with the money. Oliver Perez is making $12 million this year, even though he was cut by the Mets and is currently out of baseball. He didn't steal that money either. Is he successful? Bill Swanson of Merrillville, Indiana won $74 million last month in Powerball. Is he successful? Leona Helmsley's dog, Trouble, inherited $12 million. Is s/he successful?

My opinion of her views has nothing to do with defining her success. There are plenty on the left who I feel similarly about - Al Sharpton comes readily to mind. But you are seriously out of touch if you think liberals fear Sarah Palin. I traffic with liberals and can tell you that everyone I know salivates at the idea of Sarah Palin as the republican nominee for President. I don't really see the hateful reaction you talk about - I mostly see/hear laughter.

Let's be honest - whatever her qualifications, and I'm happy to agree to disagree on those, she is far too thin-skinned to run for President, let alone actually hold the job.



1. You did not mention that Palin did defend herself, and did win against all those complaints. Quite an omission, no? Ah, I see, you wanted to use "played a victim" phrase, and it just doesn't sound right if she did not "play" but actually was a victim of a dishonest smear campaign. Ok.

As for the rest, - I do not get your point. She is successful. Very few people in politics reach this level of success. I would have understood it, if you said something "I HATE all her achievements!" - but to say that those do not exist is just weird.

2. You did not define her as a woman, - you defined everybody else. When you evaluated her in terms of how she was accepted by women. This very approach means that to you womanhood defines person in a political context. I do not subscribe to that notion.

3. As for the money, look, it is very, very simple: in order to EARN money, you must do something that other people want. You must provide some value. If a person earns a lot of money, it means that he or she provided a lot of value to a lot of people, - simple as that. What's wrong with that? Why "providing value to many people" is not a measure of success?

4. I do not think that "liberals fear Palin", - I observe it. There are very, very, very few politicians that trigger this kind of hateful response from their opponents.

5. As for the thin-skinned, - do you remember all the Trigg-trutherism? All the well-wishing on that subject? Day after day? In central press too? And now look at the death-ray looks that Mr. Cool President was giving a few days ago to Israeli Prime Minister. And that had nothing to do with emotional family issues, - merely with foreign policy disagreement.

Posted on: 2011/6/1 20:30
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Re: Sarah Palin in Jersey City?!?
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Crazy_Chester wrote: These millionaires were in NYC and chose La Famiglia as their pizza spot. And people want them to run this country?
Haa haa, thanks for putting my thoughts into a great post.
http://www.famousfamiglia.com/ From Gothamist "Palin/Trump 2012! Definitely want someone who picked Famous Famiglia's in Times Square to have the nuke codes." Why were Palin and Trump at Famiglia, besides the fact that it's located at the Crossworlds of the Lamestream Media? Well, Trump's latest batch of Celebrity Apprentice contestants had to sell pizza at Famiglia. (Former Celebrity Apprentice contestant/Real Housewife of Atlanta Nene Leakes calls Famigilia her favorite pizza spot.) http://gothamist.com/2011/05/31/sarah ... mp_eat_at_fam.php#photo-1

Posted on: 2011/6/1 19:55
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