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Re: Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density - mixed-income
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They always couch racism and money-ism with terms like "HOPE!"
And you are correct SHEP, it is occurring nationwide. During the 50's and 60's when whites were fleeing to the suburbs, blacks and Hispanics were kept in the cities with cheap housing, and rotten scools, and OUT of the suburbs with mortgage redlining. Now Joe Exec decided he hates the 3 hour commute daily so he wants BACK into the cities...so he has to throw the blacks and Huspanics OUT of the inner cities so he can remake them. See, Joe Exec cannnot live in a lovely ivory tower if there are THOSE people next door so he must get RID of them. Joe Exec wants Jersey City Newark, Camden and Philadelphia. Throwihng the poor out of their homes, whether on a city-wide level or a country-wide level may be CALLED "Hope", but it is anything but. It most reminds me of the Reagan-era emptying of the State Hospitals that were "cruelly warehousing those poor sick people." The solution: throw them out, redevelop the valuable land, let the patients walk the streets until they died an ugly early death. HOPE, indeed! Being poor is bad enough...being poor and homeless by state decree is despicable. There is nothing wrong with Montgomery Gardens other than poor people live there. So lets haven some honesty: instead of calliing it PROJECT HOPE call it ETHNIC CLEANSING. Only New York City has kept the balance somewhat correct but that took a LOT of planning. Jersey City, an old mob town run by crooks on the take, doesn't know how to spell a single letter of the word PLANNING. And please DO remember, we are in the worst economy since the Great Depression...losing your job, perhaps forever, AND your home is perhaps a double blow that few can tolerate.
Posted on: 2010/8/14 12:16
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Re: Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density - mixed-income
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If you read the article it states this is a nationwide initiative. The initiative is called Hope VI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_VI You might have noticed other JC projects including those on Duncan Ave, A. Harry Moore, etc, etc have already undergone demolition per this nationwide, federally funded program.
Posted on: 2010/8/13 12:10
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Re: Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density - mixed-income
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Yes, perhaps LeFrak is subsidized but the people who live in Newport don't go around shooting people either. Maybe you remember a guy at Newport...great apartment. He was dealing in weaponty from UZI's to STINGER MISSILES selling weaponry from manufacturers to Mid-East terrorists. He's currently in custody. Did they propse tearing down his building? NO! Here's a good one: Quote: New York socialite and resident of Trump Towers snaps: Murders 8 year old son, attempts suicide Any wrecking balls spotted on 5th Ave heading towards the dangerous Trump Tower? Any chance of razing all of Bergen Avenue because of weekly shootings? Quote: Jersey City couple's murder-suicide stuns family and friends after bride-to-be's son finds bodies Single family home on Monticello 2 weeks ago...gonna destroy Monticello Avenue? Here's a list of 29 murders in Hudson County last year...can't find a single one for Montgomery Gardens, can you. Any recommendations to carpet bomb the county? http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF ... source=embed&ll=40.734299,-74.06461&spn=0.01117,0.01929&t=h&z=16 Does anyone tthink that there is ANY good reason to destory Montgomery Gardens other than to increase the real estate prices at the beacon?
Posted on: 2010/8/12 23:43
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I thought that's what Pennsylvania was for....
Posted on: 2010/8/11 14:18
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Re: Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density - mixed-income
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Yes, perhaps LeFrak is subsidized but the people who live in Newport don't go around shooting people either...although you might be more likely to find white collar criminals. I can live with white collar crimes; I don't fear for my my or my family's safety.
Posted on: 2010/8/11 13:12
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Nothing progressive ever gets done in the US Amen to that. It is sad but the United Ststes has lost all imagination for innovation. The only thing innovative is the decision about which country to invade next... where we are going to fight the next war. And as for requriements for subsidized housing, who is more heavily subsidized than Lefrak? The first two towers with a total pv somewhat over 600 apartments pays a real estate "in lieu" totalling a bit less than $200,000 per quarter or $800,000 per year. That is about $1300 a YEAR for each apartment with an apporiximate market value if sold EASILY in excess of $300,000 each (if you wanterd to sell 90% of them in a couple months.) SInce HUD and NJMFHA comes round regularly one can assume generous mortgages/grants etc. in excess of this almost nominal real estate tax. Does the city come round and say "time to tear it all down to build some nice 3 story town-homes to stop warehousing 4000 people in a single building? As for "drugs and crime" they are illegal. Like immigration laws on the books, anyone with a drug conviction is barred from public housing, but like immigration laws, the flabby police system find it easier to sit on their asses, collect a good pay and build up a pension. I've said it before but I will repeat it: I drove by and watched several times as they tried to knock down CURRY'S WOODS (public housing down near the Bayonne line...almost all black, some Hispanic.) They crashed a huge wrecking ball at floor after floor, interior wall by interior wall for days on end to take the buidings down. I have never seen a crane work so hard, the place was built like STEEL. Had the same wrecking ball attacked my building, it sould have folded like a house of card with the first couple blows. Buildings like these are among the best built in the County and, just like towers along Park Avenue or Fifth Avenue, will stand for centuries with a mondicum of care. When people start talking about the horrific population density if Trump Tower or the Upper East Side then we can expect honesty on the subject. But when the reference to warehousing is applied only to the poor it is is classicm and racism that art the ACTUAL meanings being bandied about. "Oh how HAPPY "those people" will be when we dynamite their AWFUL homes." Shades
Posted on: 2010/8/11 12:04
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Re: Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density - mixed-income
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It's complicated! And there are no simple answers.
1. Sometimes it cheaper to build new rather than trying to renovate these project buildings. 2. The family and income structure of those living in MG is vastly different. 3. I think socety needs to find a way to change the goal and aspirations [will be hard] of those living in MG. if you expect subsidized housing, then society should have simple expectations... I could go on..but who am I kidding. Nothing progressive ever gets done in the US. The wingnuts will cry that its too expensive, the inhabitats and libs will say its racist
Posted on: 2010/8/11 5:53
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You still have not asserted where the racism took place.
Posted on: 2010/8/11 0:58
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It?s easy for me to say we should get rid of the scum and level the place. I can say that now because I do not actually know a single person who lives there. My knowledge is limited to what has been reported out of MG? and needless to say it?s all been bad, if not horrifying.
But are there no good people who live there? respectable working people? How about Hasmera? Does she deserve to lose her home? The developers are not being philanthropic, working solely for the benefit of JC. They stand to gain. Also if I had bought at Beacon, I would be very enthusiastic about this too. Since I didn?t, I can afford to be sympathetic. I wouldn?t want a project to open up by me, but I didn?t buy next to a project either. Also, Xerxes has a point. Keep the structure, gut the place and redo the interiors. Wouldn?t that be more cost effective? And let back in people who do not have a criminal/drug abuse history. Future infractions should result in them losing their place. I know that?s easier said than done. But evacuating an entire community based on the behavior of few (or most) is just as criminal as the actions of the criminals holed up in MG.
Posted on: 2010/8/10 20:00
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You keep referring to Montgomery Towers although this thread is about Montgomery Gardens. I'm sure the residents of MT don't appreciate the reference. Cease and desist. I apologize to anyone who was seriously wounded by my reference to Montgomery TOWERS instead of Montgomery GARDENS. They are very much NOT garden apartments but rather high rise towers...and that is the reason goven for the advantages of tearing them down to build a mini mall with a few cheesy apartments for relatives of council members and cops. In fact, they are far more better described by TOWERS than by GARDENS although had I called them Montgomery MEWS, Montgomery PLACE, Montgomery CLOSE, or Montgomery PLAZA...everyone would have recognized what I was talking about. I particularly like THE MONTGOMERY...or better yet the TRUMP MONTGOMERY!
Posted on: 2010/8/10 18:01
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Re: Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density - mixed-income
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I think they should try to get more public employees (like firemen and police officers, teachers) to move there and improve them. They should also toughen the requirements for living there and access, such as making sure their children attend school and get minimum grades, no drugs, no violence, etc.
Posted on: 2010/8/10 16:49
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Booker T projects are still going to be around for a long time. you know, the ones who are shooting during little league games.
Posted on: 2010/8/10 15:39
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Re: Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density - mixed-income
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You keep referring to Montgomery Towers although this thread is about Montgomery Gardens. I'm sure the residents of MT don't appreciate the reference. Cease and desist.
Posted on: 2010/8/10 15:17
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Not that it would be fair but I have always mused on what might happen to one of these so called "high rise warehouses" if the apartments were GIVEN to the residents as cooperators. I suspect that overnight most would be spiffied up, many would be sold, hallways would be papered, elevators would be fixed, and landscaping would become lovely overnight.
Remember, a building is usually turned into a slum because it is owned by a SLUMLORD. In the case of Montgomery Towers, the slumlords are Jersey City, HUD, and NJHMFA. It becomes dangerous becasue the police are too lazy to do their jobs. It is institutionalized racism. Tearing down a solidly built high-rise is just insane. The buildings are as substantial as The Beacon and could be converted into housing as valuable as Stuyvesant Town or Peter Cooper...but for the fact that the city, and the developers (same thing really) want to get rid of the people living there. Developers only get their hands on tax money by tearing down or rebuilding. Jersey City should shake some sense into itself...it is NOT like Upper Saddle River or Bernardsville but rather much closer to Camden and Newark, both of whom are trying to get rid of their poor...probably to Jersey City. The way to get rid of the poor is to establish a rational government whose goal is something other than to divide society into a plutocracy and the rest of us. Is anything more arrogant than somebody with chump change like $200,000 looking down on someone with $10,000 or less while there are those accumulating BILLIONS just sitting on their asses laughing at the waste of energy and misdirected ire. Just remember, their were poor families living in Montgomery Towers LONG before some wanna-be's who cannot afford Manhattan decided to move into the Beacon and scorn "those people" living next door.
Posted on: 2010/8/10 14:54
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Except, they're not conveniently located, and I'm sure many units are absolutely disgusting inside. I've never been in MG, but I have been in projects in Newark and Patterson, and they are the nastiest buildings I have ever been inside. I have to admit it is the tenants who trash these places. Piss in the elevators, trash in the halls and all over the grounds, and many units I've seen look like they have never ever been cleaned, stoves covered in 20 years worth of grease etc.
Posted on: 2010/8/9 16:53
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Instead of giving all our city workers nice raises, plush benefits and fat pensions...give them half price housing here instead! In five years these same displaced people will be crying to get back into these same units..crying for compensation, as they were robbed of their nice units in a convenient area.
Posted on: 2010/8/9 16:48
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Well put ! And remember they are all apartment buildings with a mix of European, Asian, and Americans of European & Asian decent.
Posted on: 2010/8/9 16:19
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Right on. Xerxes ignores the fact that those privileged few who live in the new luxury towers choose to do so. People don't live in the projects because they're conveniently located and offer high class amenities, they live there because they're broke and its the cheapest option available. Unfortunately poverty breeds crime, concentrating the poorest segment of society in isolated developments only concentrates the crime.
Posted on: 2010/8/9 15:57
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BULL!!!!! I done being politically correct! The projects are full of gang members and thugs and they need to be knocked down now! Make it a park, don't rebuild anything for these criminals!
GET RID OF THOSE ANIMALS NOW!
Posted on: 2010/8/9 15:55
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It's not racial, it's about crime...as a homeowner near this breeding ground for criminals, i say: CYA!
(by the way, i'm black.)
Posted on: 2010/8/9 15:48
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The whole concept is racist, couched in silly illogical real estate jargon.
When they have a well built building with masonry walls between apartments covered with REAL plaster housing 125 apartments they call it WAREHOUSING THE POOR. They make demolition sound like a GOOD thing, although usually more than half of the residents will be displaced with a lucky few getting "low rise quality living." However, then they build JUNKY towers with thin gypsum board between apartments and house 325 apartments and call it LUXURY. No impetus to destroy Newport, Trump Towers, or the Marbella because they are WAREHOUSING people. WARHOUSING is a term only applied to the poor even if they have more square footage than someone in the SHORE NORTH. THe difference that cannot be mentioned is that the "WAREHOUSING" is for poor blacks and Hispanics but the "LUXURY CROWDING" is for non-poor whites. The reason "they" want to get rid of Montgomery Towers is to get the blacks out of the expanding downtown (even if on a hill.) The same thing was done to remove Hispanics who were renting in downtown so that people could remake their million dollar townhomes (after gutting the apartments that housed 3 families and evicting the residents.)
Posted on: 2010/8/9 15:18
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So we're still a year away from the first demolition of one building and 3 years away from anything finished, and they still have no firm timing for the rest of the buildings? Very disappointing. Should we start a pool as to how many people will be killed there in the meantime? Maybe an over/under of 5?
Posted on: 2010/8/6 19:19
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Montgomery Gardens in Jersey City is slated to be transformed into low-density complex for mixed-income tenants and seniors, reflecting national trend
Thursday, August 05, 2010 By MICHAELANGELO CONTE - JOURNAL STAFF WRITER The Montgomery Gardens housing complex in Jersey City - the scene of two recent shootings - is getting chopped down to size. As part of a nationwide push to shrink public housing developments into smaller, mixed-income communities, most of the 434-unit complex is slated to be leveled and will be replaced by a seniors building and 60 to 90 other residences, Jersey City Housing Authority Executive Director Maria Maio said yesterday. For years now, housing authorities around the nation have been knocking down the old high-density housing projects and replacing them with smaller, mixed-income communities. A. Harry Moore, Lafayette Gardens and the Curries Woods housing developments in Jersey City have already undergone such conversions. The belief is that these communities help avoid the kind of violence that has afflicted Montgomery Gardens for several years. The most recent incident to galvanize the public's attention was the July 16 shooting of 5-year-old Hasmera Clayton. Police say an 18-year-old Jersey City youth, who they say was shooting at someone else, shot Hasmera in the neck. The bullet nicked her spine and she is now in rehab trying to walk again. Two days ago, a 19-year-old man was shot multiple times at the housing development and was taken to the hospital in critical condition. Maio said yesterday the trimmed-down developments have seen significantly less crime. "There is absolutely a significant reduction in crime," said Maio. "The problem with the high-density buildings is they become public buildings so people have access to them and sometimes it's very difficult to figure out who is responsible for these activities. The crime at Montgomery is becoming very significant." The first phase of the conversion at Montgomery Gardens will involve gutting the 12-story, 60-unit building at Florence and Montgomery streets and turning it into a seniors building, Maio said. Construction should start next summer and take about 18 months to complete, she said. It's likely the residences to replace the Montgomery Gardens high-rises will be built by private developers on nearby vacant lots in the area of Cornelison and Fairmount avenues, Maio said. Land there is owned by Metrovest, which developed the nearby Beacon condominiums at the old Jersey City Medical Center, and will fit some 60 to 90 residences, she said. Conversion of the high-rise apartment buildings is in "very preliminary stages," Maio said. Residents would have to apply to move into the new housing and the screening process will include a background check for recent criminal activity, Maio said. Residents will have other options, including moving to other public housing, Section 8 subsidies, renting in the private market, or buying. "The hardest part of all of this is always relocation," said Maio. "Even with all the issues facing Montgomery Garden . there is still reluctance to move because it is home."
Posted on: 2010/8/6 18:17
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haha, i wouldnt run for office jclxz. i think the best plan that was implemented by NYC was to spread out the lower income units with some middle class units so that they are not all in the same building. there is much less chance that gangs and drugs will be an issue with small quantities of low income fused with middle income people. hopefully they take this route but who knows. its jc. and yes, that strip mall across the street is horrible. it needs to go down with the projects.
Posted on: 2010/5/17 1:49
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In New York I think they can dump them anywhere in the state. I know messing up too many times in the projects in NYC can get you sent up to Newburgh. Although it's ruined certain parts of Newburgh, I don't know that it was ever a nice place (or which Newburgh it is even). At least it improves NYC and they're not ruining things north of Orange County. Hopefully in NJ they can dump them anywhere in the state. Camden would be great. That's almost Pennsylvania. We can't improve JC if we just spread this trash around our city.
Posted on: 2010/5/16 7:14
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So then the people living in Montgomerty Gardens will be dumped where? The Hudson? The Beacon? Pennsylvania?
Posted on: 2010/5/15 17:46
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Hamilton Park. [snicker] as to the person who said they could not sell with "the market the way it is" the typical length of time from listing to DABO in JC is only about 6 weeks, with desirable properties being as little as 1 - 2 weeks.
Posted on: 2010/5/14 12:27
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From another Thread today: bunny22 Re: Bayonne or Jersey City Heights? #27 Not too shy to talk Posted on: Today 12:47 I've lived in the Heights (in the "East Village" area) for 7 years and I used to feel like it was safe but in the last few weeks, there have been 5 incidents nearby. A guy was beat up and mugged at 10 pm on Hancock and Griffith; a girl was mugged at 5:30 am at Palisade and Griffith; gunshots were fired on Hancock and Bower 10 pmish. A guy was shot in the back while driving his motorcyle on Central near Reservoir; Another shooting occurred on Congress and Sherman Avenue...These are only the ones that come to mind. Maybe it's a delayed reaction to the economy or there are more gangs in the area now (I heard that some housing project closed and everyone moved up here) but I don't feel as safe anymore. And I'm not the alarmist type. I hope things get better because I can't sell anytime soon with the market the way it is.
Posted on: 2010/5/14 2:16
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I am sure the Heights will be one of the areas they relocate to. 
Posted on: 2010/5/14 0:44
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Yes, but the rest of JC and Bayonne won't.
Posted on: 2010/5/13 15:17
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