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Re: Fulop/McCann and On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared
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I think the point is that people are (slowly) being made more accountable for what they post and publish on internet websites. As per the NJ statues.... Harassment (to cause annoyance and alarm) is also criminal... so it's up to a judge. In the Halloween case, the webmaster had to provide the users info.... if he failed to cooperate and protect the poster.... it's considered aiding and abetting.
Posted on: 2010/4/28 13:04
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The only comment at this time with this thread is your last post, Brightmoment. The person who you mentioned that was arrested for his postings on Halloween Night posted that numerous teenagers were shot and killed. This flooded our 911 system and caused panic through out the community. He was charged with; risking wide spread injury and public false alarms. These were N.J.S.A. 2C:criminal charges. I cannot see the comparison in this thread and the one that was done on Halloween Eve a few years back.
Posted on: 2010/4/27 21:00
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I'd be careful with your largesse.  Many here know that a poster was successfully arrested by the JCPD for creating alarmist posts of "wilding" being contemplated at area schools during Halloween. The webmaster had to provide that user's info under a prosecutorial warrant. I'm only sayin'... 
Posted on: 2010/4/27 20:07
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Re: Fulop/McCann and On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared
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More about me, yes, I could sue you. BUT, Fulop cannot sue the JCI or McCann. (He could sue McCann only if he can prove involvement.) JCI didn't present anything as evidence. They simply linked to it (and host it one their server). They did not create the report. Understand that with your logic of suing JCI for this, Fulop could sue "NorthBergen", the creater of this topic, for linking to the pdf of the report. Heck, I'll do Fulop a favor, sue me too. http://www.jerseycityindependent.com/files/fulopmccann.pdf
Posted on: 2010/4/27 19:59
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stepanstas, NO ONE would be "demanding resignations" of anyone based on allegations made by a criminal charged in several crimes at the time of arrest. I know both Jon Whiten and Shane Smith of the Jersey City Independent a deservedly recognized news source as well as commentary on all things Jersey City. However, I also understand why Councilman Fulop would not want spurious allegations presented by former Mayor and convicted felon Gerry McCann at a city council mtg. being presented as "evidence". McCann is smart enough to know that ALL documents presented at a City Council mtg. are subject to being entered as "public records" irrespective of what they say. As T-Bird and others have pointed out here, if I was to speak at the City Council and say that stepanstas (of course if I knew your real name ) was a pedophile, or guilty of paying off voters for McCann I could say such allegations and it would be recorded in the public mtg. of the city council. However, you could rightfully sue me for making such a statement of slander particularly as it would forever impact your name and you doing anything in JC.Councilman Fulop had every right to contemplate suing JCI for furthering the public conveyance of what the JCPD has already investigated and found that there was nothing there as to this criminals charges. I'm glad Fulop decided not to sue as JCI are good guys and the best online reporting we have here in JC. However, the criminal arrested and charged with credit card fraud, theft of credit card #'s, posession of credit card fabricators was trying to deal his way out with first a story of dealers he could offer up then this outrageous story of $1000 being paid for him and his pals to vote several times on behalf of Fulop, paid by Charles Torres (yes, a known criminal) and a "Tom" of which only Tom Bertoli who does work as a campaign strategist with Fulop, was obviously the person he meant to suggest. However, they were ALLEGATIONS, NOT EVIDENCE! Do you really think that the Healy administration and favorable district attorney predisposed towards same would not have blasted this supposed "evidence" info out during the school board election but also when Healy's endorsed candidate, Guy Catrillo, who ran against Fulop was soundly defeated and then later convicted of bribery and now serving time? More McCann trolls or Fulop haters grasping at straws to keep the old guard in power is what this is and we all know that they are threatened by Fulop's success of support in the school board election and thus will throw any mud they can get away with throwing. However as the old school yard saying goes: "I'm rubber your glue!"- 
Posted on: 2010/4/27 18:37
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Re: Fulop/McCann and On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared
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And I would bet Fulop would be the main one demanding resignations. Agreed, JCI should dig deeper.
Posted on: 2010/4/27 15:09
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The fascinating aspect of this thread is that some posters are having a difficult time imagining or believing that Fulop?s campaign is or could have been associated with voting irregularities or fraud.
I bet that the same posters would be writing a different narrative if the story were to change, and the name Fulop was transposed with the name of just about any other local politician associated with the HCDO. Imagine the immediate outrage and call for resignation and investigations if the name were changed to Healy/Stack or Cunnigham. These same posters would be having a field day condemning them because it?s become apparent Fulop can do no wrong in their eyes. That?s too bad for them but especially for him because his feet should be held to the same fire or scrutiny given to all other politicians. His initial response was not what one would expect from such a ?pure? exponent of transparency when it comes to calling others out for their shortcomings. Fulop opened up something very telling and unflattering about himself. I will hope that he takes this as a wake up call to the reality of playing with the likes of Tom and Charlie. Charlie Torres may still be in jail on some fraud charges but Tommy Bertoli is alive and well in the Fulop camp. He can be seen in the JJ picture at his headquarters on election eve 2010. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_school_board_honor.html While many already have his number there are still others who have placed their complete trust and faith in just another flawed politician even if his guilt is by association, he is the one who hired these people to run his campaign. Although it?s very difficult to prove it now the talk about the voter fraud by the Fulop campaign in a 2005 election has been around for a long time. The Independent has performed a terrific service to journalism and the residents of Jersey City in how they handled this story. Now, if they would only dig a little deeper? It?s not that hard? just use OPRA. You can support and defend the Fulop all you want. That?s your choice. Just know that this may just be a wake up call not to place 100% faith and trust in any one politician. This is not about how smart or how many good ideas he has or that he?s articulate. Sure, he has many redeeming qualities. I mean my 10 year old is more articulate than almost any council member. Like all politicians Fulop has the required ego necessary to pursue public office. Unfortunately, like many other politicians he has ultimately sold out and his obvious narcissism can be his ruin. Instead of threatening to sue he should have welcomed an open discussion and investigation of the contents of the police report? but he didn?t. That?s the reality.
Posted on: 2010/4/26 21:11
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The root of this thread seems to be McCann vs. Fulop.
And based on that comparison, can there even be any discussion?
Posted on: 2010/4/26 16:20
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I think it was their duty to their readers to follow up on the piece. Basically, they cleared their name. Quote:
Yup, looks like it. That post was right above mine. It would help if WB did that, or at least edit the post, delete everything and say "message deleted". Quote:
I think its clear they requested it, but I believe anything that the city clerk gets a hold of can be requested. This might help. Open Public Records Act (OPRA) http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/city_clerk.aspx?id=1236
Posted on: 2010/4/26 1:04
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Just can't stay away
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The original article says
"We also linked to the police report, which we had obtained Friday morning, via fax, from the City Clerk?s office." Did JCI request the fax or did someone anonymously send it? Can anyone request random police reports for the city clerk?
Posted on: 2010/4/26 0:16
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Finally someone who is joining the dots - Do we recall other 'politicians' who have members in the Police or Fire departments. Maybe drunk cousin cops or nephews that fail their psyc. test but still get into the Fire dept - this one will make for good reading in the future! Police integrity: What a load of crap. JCPD seem to never uncover any crap on our city hall officials (both current and previous) it's always other policing authorities - JCPD is no more at times, an extention of some ass-wipe in office that wants to generate some crap on another candidate. Shame JCPD Management Shame for allowing information to be leaked with the flow of a fire hose - WE NEED AN OUT OF STATE POLICE CHIEF AND DISTRICT COMMANDERS NOW.
Posted on: 2010/4/25 20:35
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Fulop/McCann and On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared
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Just can't stay away
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This was not a police report.It was a transcript of an interview with a suspect who was caught committing a crime.He was trying
to deal his way out of trouble which means he would pretty much say anything. Three points: 1. This was not a public document nor could you or i obtain it,so which cop gave it to him. 2. This was from 2007 when Fulop was beating the crap out of both Healy and Chief Troy. Would they not have loved to pursue this claim if it was true. 3. This is the same precinct that McCanns Nephew Saun Conners works at (point number one answered)Perhaps Mr Conners may have helped this young mans memory.
Posted on: 2010/4/25 17:16
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I don't see any post from a "JerseyCityPower". Did the Webmaster delete that post? Why is one poster redacted and not another? Webmaster, I would like to see you add a post in the relevant thread when you delete a post and say why.
Posted on: 2010/4/25 15:51
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Just can't stay away
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I agree that the Independent is a tremendous asset to Jersey City, as is Steve Fulop.
It scares me to see how twisted the concept of "objective journalism" has become in the minds of some. Those who misunderstand the meaning are actually sabotaging our society. This huge disconnect in many of the public's mind between truth, opinion and lies is shameful. The lack of reading comprehension demonstrated by those who assert that JCI was simply giving "both sides a chance to speak their mind" is astounding. I suggest you read the article--analyze it line by line and you will find JCI did not assert that there was any validity to the police report that McCann used at the Council meeting. They wrote simply that the report was used to disrupt proceedings. I was there. In my opinion the report was used by McCann as a last ditch effort to get attention for his run in the Board Of Education election and to distract from his own culpability in running this city(into the ground) along with those other officials who are felons and or future felons. He is a disgrace to any office he holds, including his position on the JCIA--where he is paid with tax payer dollars to remove evidence of his own crimes (illegal posting). The council meeting was turned into a three ring circus. Smoke and mirrors...and JCI was reporting on this. This trend to insist that lies and innuendo be given equal time to truth is disastrous. I suppose our commercial 24 hour news channels and the cult of personality news are somewhat responsible for training people to misunderstand the difference.
Posted on: 2010/4/25 15:35
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But they became one of the "sides" when they wrote the follow-on piece. Nothing at all "Independent" about that. It's one thing to make an idle threat when someone publishes a report that was released illegally and that wrongfully attacks your reputation. It's another to air it all out in the name of "independence." I think the Independent is a tremendous asset to our city. We are so starved for investigative reporting and they do a great job of it. There was nothing illegal about what they did, but it seems like they've always held themselves to a higher standard. I guess the question they should ask themselves is do we want to be the New York Times or the New York Post?
Posted on: 2010/4/25 13:46
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Sue fulop Sue............imagine the campaign funds it could generate and the 'in your face' value. If you don't, the rumours and a question over your credibility will always shadow you.
If the celebrities can sue the tabloids for crap, so too should the politicians for crap being spread about them - they should also sue the person who initiated the crap.
Posted on: 2010/4/25 9:41
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Fulop/McCann and On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared
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JCI has been nothing but professional about this. They gave both sides a chance to speak their mind and did not take any side. They provided a police report to the public. Truly "Independent". If this happened to me, would I be happy, of course not. Would I threaten to sue the media? Nope.
Posted on: 2010/4/25 5:19
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So I call the police and say I saw stepanstas running around Van Vorst Park without pants chasing children and the police take down the story. In the course of fifteen minutes and a couple of phone calls they realize you are in Atlanta. Let's say I have a buddy or nephew or godson (whatever) who happens to be a cop. The "police report" is strategically leaked and the newspaper comes across it second hand. You're good if they run it, right?
Posted on: 2010/4/25 2:52
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You know those infomercials on TV that sell anti-wrinkle products and gadgets that claim to remove cellulite? Question: Who buys products based on the claims of an infomerical? Answer: Scores of people. Because people can be gullible and believe what they hear and read.
Having been the butt of many a joke on internet websites, I can tell you from experience that many folks believe what they read. It can spiral out of control and pop up on other sites where more people (including admins) post non-factual information solely based on gossip and hearsay. Just because someone filed a police report means nothing more than someone made a statement to the police. The police have to take the statement and file the report. After that, if someone presses charges, it goes to court. If there is no proof, there is no trial, no charges and no story?. only gossip. Truth is worth defending. It means everything. I?ve had very good experiences with the Jersey City police. I have no respect for criminals. I don?t care what their position is, was, will ever be. I respect our veterans and soldiers. Even when I do not approve of our government wars.
Posted on: 2010/4/24 22:50
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Police report - give me a break, JCPD are more politicially motivated to came up with reports to get financial advantage like any other organization - The Police simply act as a lobby group ........... Didn't they just get a pay agreement finalized !
If you spread crap around, some of it will stick and if you don't agree with Police demands then watch out - McCann is now the pin-up boy for the cops and has their full support.
Posted on: 2010/4/24 21:46
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Fulop/McCann and On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared
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Levin got 1500 votes in a citywide election against three criminals seven people got more votes in a schhol bord election. Levin isn't even an afterthought
Posted on: 2010/4/24 21:32
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Agreeing with JerseyCityPower on one point. He really hasn't done anything. Is he the best on the council? Yes. Is he the best we can have? No. I'm still sticking with Levin for Mayor and if Fulop was a team player, he would back him up.
With that said, lets focus not on the validity of what was said in the report, but how Fulop reacted. Threatening to sue media because they published a document? That alone makes me question if it were valid. And lets not get so upset at McCann. Whether you like Fulop or not, he is an elected official. And whether good your not, they have to be confronted to keep them on their feet. All McCann did was present a police report from some years ago. A report that I guess nobody else confronted Fulop about.
Posted on: 2010/4/24 21:25
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Having read these posts, honestly this really seems to smack of sour grapes on McCann's part.
Probably because of the school board election that just took place. Fulop found candidates that he liked and he supported them. And they won. So now, folks from the machine art targeting Fulop, especially as he is a likely next contender for Mayor and has very strong support and is "like-able" and gets things done. I'm sure this will go away as quick as it appeared. No one believes it. In fact, didn't Healy use the same tricks? Paying off homeless to vote "often and in different places"? Gotta love Jersey City. FG
Posted on: 2010/4/24 19:58
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reading the report gives the impression of a guy spilling the beans ... and some of those beans may be misleading ... a rat is a rat is a rat ...
it seems to be somewhat inconsistent that the details of this massive voter fraud perpetrated by this guy are quite hazy, but other details are more focused ... perhaps it is time, perhaps it is the scale of the crime, perhaps it is just decaying memory ... since there do not seem to be any follow-ups to this police report, one begs to ask several questions ... some of which are: (a) is voter fraud so prevalent in jersey city that the detectives fail to push the issue further? (b) is the claim of massive voter fraud not sufficiently credible that the police does not push it further? (c) are the police in question so politically attuned to fulop that the claim dies a sudden death? (d) why didn't catrillo and team healy dig this up the time it really mattered and use it to discredit fulop when they had the money, the opportunity, and the motivation?
Posted on: 2010/4/24 19:51
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I know Steve, but not personally enough to absolutely vouch for him. However I followed the Hoboken Mayoral antics as I'm a friend of Dawn Zimmer who I would vouch for, and the things that were said about her and misdeeds she and her team were accused of make your suspicions perfectly possible. That's the way the game is played in Hudson County, drag your opponent down in the mud with you so no one can tell who's dirty. And guess what! It was Gerry McCann up to his eyeballs in it in Hoboken too!
Posted on: 2010/4/24 16:41
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Fulop has always acted fairly and honorably in all my experiences with him. I cant get my own councilman to respond for help, and yet he does and is active outside his ward. He is a true credit to Jersey City and in the sea of corupt-ness. he is a breath of fresh air. I woulndt put it past the politico to have even planted the people/documents to keep him from gathering too much momentum. Let his record of who he is stand...
Posted on: 2010/4/24 15:31
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This document is a police report, not McCann's report. Besides, this is called independent media. They post whatever comes up. Shameful move by Fulop, but does show his true colors.
Posted on: 2010/4/24 15:19
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Fulop should sue JCI and McCann - JCI simply published documents by McCann on good faith. JCI could sue McCann also if Fulop goes after JCI and wins.
JCI will only be the seen as guilty of sensationalism which is no crime. JCI has only stirred the pot between the two parties.
Posted on: 2010/4/24 7:50
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Fulop/McCann and On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared
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Jersey City Independent
Editor?s Note: On a Document That Disappeared, Then Reappeared By Jon Whiten ? Apr 21st, 2010 ? Pardon the interruption here, folks. In the interest of transparency and reader accountability, we want to make you aware of a major editorial decision that has unfolded over the past few days. On Friday afternoon, we published our usual detailed Council Report; it included Shane Smith?s reportage on a heated exchange between former mayor Gerald McCann and Ward E councilman Steven Fulop that happened during the meeting. McCann brandished a 2008 police report that included an allegation that the Fulop campaign, during the 2005 council race against Junior Maldonado, had paid several people money to vote multiple times at different polling places. Webmaster Edit: At the request of the publishers of the Jersey City Independent we redacted this article. The Police Investigation Report Link to the article on JCI
Posted on: 2010/4/24 4:06
Edited by Webmaster on 2010/4/27 19:01:08
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