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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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The facts? PSE&G should ideally publish facts related to the panels? installed efficacy, but I don?t think that?s information they would be proud to share. The claim is that 40MW of generating capacity has been installed (200,000 panels x 200W each) , so there are a few relevant questions to that end: 1. What is the actual PEAK generating capacity and how does that coincide with established peak usage patterns? That is, how much do the panels offset peak generating station demand? Given the visible compromises of the installation, it sure isn?t 40MW. 2. What is the AVERAGE power generated and what is the payback period? 3. How much will these numbers decrease as the panels become dirty over the course of years? Will PSE&G clean 200,000 scattered panels on a periodic basis? If so, at what cost? What does your technical insight tell you? As implemented, is this truly a practical solution to a problem or is it ?green? marketing?
Posted on: 2012/1/18 15:49
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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What's curious about these panels is the placement of them along the state's highways. If you head up to route 80 you will see the solar panels in batches of 5 to 8 along portions of the roadway and then a series of poles without the panels. The odd part about this is its seemingly random and along the highway there is plenty of open sunlight as there are no buildings or trees or other obstructions.
As to having the local panels, they are useful in providing a local source of power during peak demand. They also reduce heat generated at substations converting power from interstate to regional to local power since the panels are pumping electricity directly into the grid.
Posted on: 2012/1/18 15:03
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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I heard there is some talk about now removing the solar panels on the lamp posts because they are not historically correct. Neither are the power lines if you think about it, and they are the real blight on the city. If the solar panels provide any cost benefit why would you take them down?
Does anyone know the actual facts? Don't let the city government do something stupid because a few people don't think they are historically correct.
Posted on: 2012/1/18 14:40
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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Obama's Solyndra scandal reeks of the Chicago Way
Those of us from Chicago know exactly what the Solyndra scandal smells like. And It doesn't smell fresh and green. Chicago Tribune September 18, 2011 John Kass  President Barack Obama tours the Solyndra solar panel company plant in? The Solyndra scandal cost at least a half-billion public dollars. It is plaguing President Barack Obama. And it's being billed as a Washington story. But back in Obama's political hometown, those of us familiar with the Chicago Way can see something else in Solyndra ? something that the Washington crowd calls "optics." In fact, it's not just a Washington saga ? it has all the elements of a Chicago City Hall story, except with more zeros. The FBI is investigating what happened with Solyndra, a solar panel company that got a $535 million government-backed loan with the help of the Obama White House over the objections of federal budget analysts. Obama and Vice President Joe Biden got a nice photo op. They got to make speeches about being "green." But then Solyndra went bankrupt. Americans lost jobs. Taxpayers got stuck with the bill. And members of Congress are now in high dudgeon and making speeches. Federal investigators want to know what role political fundraising played in the guarantee of the questionable loan. Washington bureaucrats warned the deal was lousy. And White House spokesmen flail desperately, like weakened victims in a cheesy vampire movie. So forget optics. What about smell? It smells bad, and it's going to smell worse. Or, did you really believe it when the White House mouthpieces ? who are also Chicago City Hall mouthpieces ? promised they were bringing a new kind of politics to Washington? This is not a new kind of politics. It's the old kind. The Chicago kind. And now the Tribune Washington Bureau has reported that the U.S. Department of Energy employee who helped monitor the Solyndra loan guarantee was one of Obama's top fundraisers. Fundraising? Contracts? Imagine that. Steve Spinner was the Obama administration official in charge of handing out billions and billions of tax dollars to "green" energy deals. According to the Tribune story, Spinner the other day invited Obama's national political finance committee to a meeting in Chicago. The name of the Obama fundraising initiative? "Technology for Obama." The idea of the Obama fundraisers getting together, talking "green," and perhaps offering taxpayer loan guarantees to insider businesses in the interest of helping the environment ? it all seems rather fresh. Like a mountain meadow. Until you realize it's the same old politics, the same kind practiced in Washington and Chicago and anywhere else where appetites are satisfied by politicians. When the government picks winners and losers, who's the loser? Just look in the mirror, hold that thought, and tell me later. Republicans are hoping to hang this around Obama's political neck, and they're doing a good job of it now because his approval ratings are low and the jobless numbers are abysmal and the Democrats are in full killer-rabbit panic. But there have been Republican national scandals, too, and they're always ridiculously and depressingly similar. At least in Illinois our scandals are quite ecumenical, with Republicans eager to help Democrats steal whatever they can grab. In Solyndra, like any proper City Hall political scandal, there are similar archetypes. There are the guys who count. The guys who bring the cash. They count because they do the counting. They have leverage. They're always there at the fundraisers. And so they're the ones who are allowed to gorge at the public trough. =============================== Solyndra Flop Fails to Slow Obama Team?s $9.2 Billion Push for Wind, Solar By Jim Efstathiou Jr. Sep 19, 2011 Bloomberg The Obama administration, defying congressional Republicans after the failure of solar-panel maker Solyndra LLC, is working to award as much as $9.2 billion in government financing to renewable energy companies before a Sept. 30 deadline. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09 ... sh-to-aid-wind-solar.html
Posted on: 2011/9/20 13:10
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The manufacture of solar panel is not "clean". Plus it is a very energy intensive process. China leads the supply of refined silicon for panels because they don't bother treating the waste (silicon tetrachloride), which requires heating it to 1,800 F (more energy). The land around these plants is so poisoned, nothing will grow. The energy to make those panels is coming from guess where? Coal.. lots of it. The Chinese don't bother much in the way of pollution control, which results in big brown clouds drifting over the Pacific. And how much more are you willing to pay for electricity. We are on the same grid (PJM) as Pennsylvania, but we pay 2x what a PA resident or business would. This is due in large part of subsidizing the solar industry in NJ. Photovoltaic panels are simply not cost effective as a main power source. Running your calculator? sure... Supplying 20% of the power for this State (the goal of the green energy program)? Never going to happen unless there is some major technological breakthrough. BTW.. NJ get the majority of its power from nuclear
Posted on: 2011/9/20 11:30
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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Newbie
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Well, it seems like the states are getting a new way for electricity consumption which saves us from unwanted pollution. I see that we should plant these types of solar panel on big scale apart from coal electricity factories. You know I read in a article that many states in USA using this in their traffic lights, and hotels.
solar panels new jersey
Posted on: 2011/9/20 7:14
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That's the whole point - they have no idea where the climate is going.
They have no workable model of the clouds, they have no good idea how they are formed and what affects it, they have no idea how exactly Sun's activity plays a role in all that, - and there is a significant bunch of the new theories that involve cosmic rays and many other things. People who claim that they have "models" that explain the climate are charlatans. This is anything but science. Think about times when medicine prescribed blood-letting as a common cure, - and it was in some cases applied to help soldiers wounded in the battle field. And now think of how much money our economy spends on "global warming" prohibitions and how much money we loose on those "cures" that we need no more than those blood lettings.
Posted on: 2011/6/25 20:24
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Here is a good article:
============================== Solar physics: Sun down Several lines of evidence suggest that the sun is about to go quiet The Economist Jun 16th 2011 DURING the four centuries that it has been studied in detail, the sun has usually behaved in a regular manner. The number of spots on its surface has waxed and waned in cycles that last, on average, 11 years. Such cycles begin with spots appearing in mid-solar latitudes and end with them near the equator. And the more spots there are, the more solar storms there are around. Sometimes, though, the sun sulks and this solar cycle stops. That has happened twice since records began: during the so-called Maunder minimum of 1645 to 1715 and the Dalton minimum of 1790 to 1830. These coincided with periods when global temperatures were lower than average, though why is a matter of debate. An absence of sunspots also means an absence of solar flares and their more violent siblings, coronal mass ejections. Such outbursts disrupt radio and satellite communications, electricity grids and a variety of electronic equipment, so the pattern of solar activity is of more than academic interest. A new solar minimum, then, would test theories about how the climate works and also make communications more reliable. And many solar physicists think such a new minimum is on the cards. A group of them, who all work for America?s National Solar Observatory (NSO), have just had a meeting in New Mexico, under the aegis of the American Astronomical Society, to announce their latest results. Frank Hill and his team were the discoverers, 15 years ago, of an east-west jet stream in the sun. They also worked out that the latitude of this wind is related to the sunspot cycle. At the beginning of a cycle the jet stream is found, like sunspots, in mid-latitudes. As the cycle progresses, it follows the spots towards the equator. Intriguingly, however, Dr Hill?s studies indicate that the jet stream of a new cycle starts to form years before the sunspot pattern. This time, that has not happened. History suggests a new cycle should begin in 2019. If the sun were behaving itself, Dr Hill?s team would have seen signs of a new jet stream in 2008 or 2009. They did not. Nor are there indications of one even now. If a change in the jet stream really is a leading indicator of solar activity, then no new cycle is on the horizon. The second study which suggests something odd is happening looked at the strengths of sunspots. Matthew Penn and William Livingston have analysed 13 years of data which indicate that, independently of the number of spots around, there has been a decrease in their strength. Sunspots are caused by irruptions into its surface of the sun?s deeper magnetism. These create local drops in temperature, which make the surface gas darker. Over the period which Dr Penn and Dr Livingston analysed, the average magnetic strength of the irruptions has declined. Below a certain threshold, they will not be strong enough to overcome the convective mixing of the gas at the surface, and spots will disappear altogether. If the present trend continues, that will happen in 2021. The third measure of the sun?s decline is in its outer atmosphere, the corona. At each solar maximum, the corona sloughs off the magnetic fingerprint of the previous cycle by pushing it to the poles. According to Richard Altrock, the leader of another NSO team at the meeting, that does not appear to be happening in the present cycle. It looks, then, as if a new, extended solar minimum is about to begin. That is good news for operators of communications satellites. And it is interesting news for those who worry about global warming. If the Maunder and Dalton minima actually did affect the climate, then a new one might counteract the effects of the extra greenhouse gases people are now pumping into the atmosphere?at least, until the solar cycle returns. Whether the breathing space thus granted would be used wisely or squandered is another matter. Do not expect that debate to be as placid as the spotless sun. from the print edition | Science and Technology
Posted on: 2011/6/24 14:34
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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I agree these solar panels are nothing but a boondoggle -- however though it is very interesting new information -- I think it is a little too early to say a mini ice age is near.
================================= from the web... ================================= Global cooling coming? A big announcement from the American Astronomical Society Solar Physics Conference today. All signs right now point to an extended solar cycle, and possibly even the beginning of a new Maunder Minimum. What that means is we may be in the beginning of a new Little Ice Age. The last one ended roughly 1850; during the Little Ice Age, temperatures were significantly colder than we?ve seen for, say, the last 100 years. ================================= Fox Twists Scientific Research To Announce A "Mini Ice Age" -- Again June 15, 2011 by Jocelyn Fong mediamatters.org Scientists at the National Solar Observatory and the Air Force Research Laboratory say three lines of evidence suggest that the sun may soon enter an extended calm period instead of following its normal 11-year cycle of high and low sunspot activity. The authors of the studies reportedly "said there was not yet enough data to firm up a climate connection to solar activity" and that they don't know how long the calm period would last. Nevertheless, Fox used the research to proclaim that "We Might Be Headed for a Mini Ice Age": Other media outlets jumped on the research as well. In a post at at the Telegraph, James Delingpole wrote: "It's official: a new Ice Age is on its way," claiming that the recent findings "make global cooling a much more plausible prospect in the next few decades than global warming." And under the headline "Earth May Be Headed for Big Chill From Little Ice Age," Newsmax declared: "The Earth could be heading straight for a little ice age -- and not a global warming phase as dictated by Al Gore and others -- posits the U.S. National Solar Observatory (NSO) and the U.S. Air force Research Laboratory." In fact, solar physicist Frank Hill, who was involved in the research, explained via email that those warning of a mini ice age are making a "huge leap" from current scientific understanding of the variables involved: We are NOT predicting a mini-ice age. We are predicting the behavior of the solar cycle. In my opinion, it is a huge leap from that to an abrupt global cooling, since the connections between solar activity and climate are still very poorly understood. My understanding is that current calculations suggest only a 0.3 degree C decrease from a Maunder-like minimum, too small for an ice age. Bill Livingston, an astronomist who also contributed to the research said in an email that while the solar conditions "could counter 'global warming' somewhat," he "would not say we are predicting a mini-ice age." The Maunder Minimum to which Hill referred is a previous 70-year period of solar inactivity, which coincided with the "Little Ice Age." During that time, "Europe and North America experienced bitterly cold winters," as explained by The Economist, which also cautioned that "correlation is not causation." Oddly enough, this is not the first time that conservative media outlets, including Fox News, have put the words "mini ice age" into the mouth of a scientist to downplay the long-term warming influence of human-caused greenhouse gas emissions. http://mediamatters.org/blog/201106150023
Posted on: 2011/6/24 13:48
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The question is - why WOULD they? Consider, - "Anthropogenic Global Warming" theory was recently scraped by its proponents and renamed "Global Climate Disruption". That basically tells us that they can't predict which way temperatures will go. Recent scientific discussions showed that climate models that AGW theory was based upon did not take into account influence of the Sun's activity and had no cloud model. This is like someone trying to sell a ship that was constructed without any knowledge of the Archimedes law. Finally, most of their predictions failed. So, there is no reason to think that using solar makes any sense in "doom-prevention" department. On the other hand, solar panels provide less stable power than alternatives. Unless and until industry finds the way to make them cheaper, - there is really no reason to use them.
Posted on: 2011/6/24 11:03
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Home away from home
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isn't that like being the thinnest kid at Fat Camp? nice try, Jersey, but THIS is how you do solar: http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/22/news/ ... solar/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2 why isn't the roof of every big-box retailer in the country covered in solar panels?
Posted on: 2011/6/24 5:12
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Just can't stay away
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+ 1
Posted on: 2011/4/29 23:53
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I agree. The reaction of people makes me disgusted to be a Jersey native. NIMBY S.O.B.s.
Posted on: 2011/4/29 22:32
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Popular Science Magazine has picked up the story
 New Jerseyites Hate New Solar Panels, Brand Them "Hideous" Residents of New Jersey, a state well known for its elegant aesthetic sense, are unhappy with the solar panels installed on electrical poles in leafy residential neighborhoods by the state's largest utility company. In suburban Bergen County, locals call the panels "ugly," "hideous," and an "eyesore," in addition to protesting their installation with complaints and (possibly) vandalism, according to the New York Times. New Jersey has a robust alternative energy plan that aims to secure 23 percent of its electricity from renewable sources within ten years--an ambitious goal that'll be all the more difficult to achieve if suburbanites protest the installation of solar panels on their streets. At the moment, there are talks in some towns about the efficiency of the current setup compared with how much the residents are annoyed by them--some say the panels interfere with emergency call boxes, or that spreading out the panels in this way somehow impedes efficiency (that part's not true, according to solar experts). But it looks like New Jersey's solar plans aren't in any serious danger: The resistance is only in certain small pockets of the state, and the utility owns the electric poles anyway, so there's not much those angry suburbanites can do. Maybe they'd prefer some ivy-shaped panels instead? Click the link below http://www.popsci.com/technology/arti ... and-them-hideous-eyesores
Posted on: 2011/4/29 22:12
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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That was sort of my tongue-in-cheek point about these eyesore complaints. Really, the solar panels are the only nice looking thing on those poles. And the appearance is the least of the concerns. They apparently are installed quickly and easily, and I was actually pleasantly surprised and somewhat proud to see such a clean initiative in action in JC. Plus there is a whole solar farm down by the 14B turnpike entrance, where all those mulch piles are fermenting. I know there are cost/benefit and vandalism concerns, etc., but "eyesore"?! Be real. We will get used to seeing them, they will blend into the landscape, just like the spaghetti wires and real filth we look at around here.
Posted on: 2011/4/29 19:23
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Home away from home
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I look at that picture and all i see is the massive tangle of wires coming off the poles. THAT is what is truly hideous.
And evaaluations of cost competitiveness based on today's prices don't really make sense. Natural gas is in a temporary state of oversupply. The real costs of burning coal are not reflected in the current price- but probably will. Become more so as time goes on. You can't just wait until the exact day solar becomes one cent cheaper and then panel the entire country in a week.
Posted on: 2011/4/29 13:48
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Just can't stay away
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dude, nuclear is the answer, and i am all for it.
Posted on: 2011/4/29 2:40
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2011/4/29 2:36
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Excellent, when can we hunt wolves from our helicopters over VVP?
Posted on: 2011/4/29 2:30
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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Home away from home
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I think the panels because of their scale, placed height on the poles, and return on investment, make them inappropriate in all residential areas. But to ask owners of historic districts to adhere to strict codes when improving their property and then let PSE&G install these hideous panels, without notice, should not be permitted. It is my understanding that the city is working on having all panels removed from our historic areas. If you are truly bothered by the application, even if not by its theory, contact the city?s law department and PSE&G?s community representative and let them know your concerns. There are many alternatives in order to fulfill PSE&G?s mandate (though not as easy for them as using easement rights) that are less intrusive and possibly more economical.
Posted on: 2011/4/29 1:41
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Home away from home
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I wish my tent had air conditioning.
Posted on: 2011/4/28 23:44
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- Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
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The folks living along the shore don't want wind turbines. A lot of the people here on the thread appear to have aesthetic objections to the solar panels. Another whole thread is dedicated to stopping natural gas. I'm curious how many of you are getting ready to turn your air conditioners on this summer?
Posted on: 2011/4/28 23:42
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PSE&G are putting these eyesores on the streets because there is nothing in the City nor State ordinances that prevents them from doing so. On residential streets I'd like to see some kind of City ordinance that:
1. Forces PSE&G to site solar panels on residential rooftops instead of on poles in the streets. 2. Reduces residential PSE&G bills if the resident permits the PSE&G solar panels on their rooftop. So for example, if PSE&G want 1 solar panel on a a residence, they pay for, say 5, where the other 4 get applied to reducing the residential PSE&G bill. Anything else, they're just taking advantage of the monopoly they have, and not benefiting their customers.
Posted on: 2011/4/28 23:34
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I saw a vandalized one on the ground near the light rail track between the LSP and Jersey Av. stops.
The target these big glass rectangles make the wayward JC youth would be pretty alluring. Wonder if they factored in replacement costs?
Posted on: 2011/4/28 23:19
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The street lights installed all along Second St between Washington and Marin have the solar panels attached to the poles.
Posted on: 2011/4/28 23:03
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Home away from home
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I guess someone forgot to tell that to the panel mounters that placed panels facing east, north, and in places that get sun maybe 15% of the day. I'm all for solar energy, but the planning and implementation of this project seems to be inadequate.
Posted on: 2011/4/28 22:49
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- Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
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In that case, focusing on larger commercial & industrial structures that use vast amounts of daytime current is even more sound. And the issues of maintenance you bring up are more easily addressed. "If they were laid out like quilt pieces, the 5-by-2.5-foot panels would blanket 170 acres" That's 2.5M sq ft. Think how easily this could be achieved on commercial roofs. They say they've put them on schools. FAIL! Schools have the wrong type of architecture, they don't have vast flat floor areas like industrial & commercial buildings. Just look at a satmap of the industrial park at the S end of LSP to see the structures I mean. Just 1 of those roofs is about 150Ksq ft!
Posted on: 2011/4/28 21:02
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I am in favor of solar but they could have put these at an angle at the very top of the pole or done something to be make them less fugly.
Posted on: 2011/4/28 20:57
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I believe the purpose of generating energy close to where it?s consumed, rather than at centralized locations, is that it can increase effective power delivery capacity without having to increase the current-carrying capacity of the upstream transmission infrastructure. That actually sounds like a pretty smart idea.
Now, in order for a distributed system to increase effective delivery capacity while not taxing upstream transmission lines or generating stations, it must offset the peak customer electrical demand. The peak demand is generally concurrent with the peak air-conditioning load, which happens in late afternoon during the summer. If the system is optimized to offset that peak load, that is, the panels are arranged to generate the greatest amount of power at the expected peak demand time, its generating ability will be less optimal at other times of day and during other seasons. What will a nominal 200W panel generate on a winter morning when it?s still looking for the summer sun? Further, the actual generating capacity of the entire solar panel system will be less than the installed capacity thanks to diversity caused by installation irregularities. The panels are installed at differing orientations, and will experience differing levels of solar intensity, which will obviously affect power output. Keep in mind we?re paying for *all* the installed hardware and labor, not a proportion of what we?ll actually get out of it. Then there?s the issue of maintenance. How clean does the wind and rain keep a parked car?s windshield? Filthy clean, right? Well, that?s going to reduce the panels? output, probably significantly, over the next several years. Will PSE&G clean them periodically? 200,000 scattered panels? Doesn?t seem likely. How about the 200,000 tiny DC/AC inverters on the line? There?s probably enough garbage harmonic content on the line already. I?m left with major questions. Out of the original 40 MW or whatever it is, how much power will actually be delivered to PSE&G customers? What?s the kWh per day when averaged throughout the year? Is it worth the price tag? And why is it not worth the expense to upgrade generation and transmission infrastructure in manner that will be more efficient and reliable for years to come? It?s clear we should be taking advantage of solar energy, but I?m concerned that PSE&G?s pole-mounted solar program is more of a marketing effort than a practical solution. And if it is a solution at all, I?m concerned that it?s the duct tape and rubber band sort. And they look awful.
Posted on: 2011/4/28 20:38
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Re: Will PSE&G Solar Panels be Placed in Front of your Historic Home? They are coming soon to JC!
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Home away from home
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So? The point is was this form of distributed solar necessary. I'd say "not until every roof of over 10,000 sq ft has already been outfitted." Every little rowhouse or ranch is silly, but Jersey has many sq miles of flat roofs on everything from supermarkets to industrial parks. What do you suppose the saturation of that area is?
Posted on: 2011/4/28 20:03
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