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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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I see the Steve King brigade is out in force.

Posted on: 1/19 19:16
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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One trick pony.

Give it a rest Man.

Posted on: 1/19 16:50
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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TheBigGuy wrote:
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mscottc wrote

Reread the article... the article said (and I'm simplifying) "Some people called the policy racist." The writer of the article didn't say it was racist, I'll repeat, they said "Some people called the policy racist."

Here's the actual text of the article... "The references to oversized jewelry, low and belt-less pants, and head gear, particularly, were seen by some as racially specific and led a number of patrons to take to social media to question if the bar is expressly attempting to keep patrons of color out of the premises."

You assume the press is liberal... makes you a conservative... the "press" is middle of the road.


The only ones making a big "national" deal out of this local story is the "liberal press". In your citation, the writer gets to explain the "subliminal racism" in the poster... while other liberal press claim it is "overt racism" So what exactly is it? Kinda like picking between global warming or climate change.


LOL, I bet when Yvonne was calling any and all parking regulations racist, the NIMBYs here were unequivocally backing her...pot calling the kettle.

Posted on: 1/19 6:09
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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mscottc wrote

Reread the article... the article said (and I'm simplifying) "Some people called the policy racist." The writer of the article didn't say it was racist, I'll repeat, they said "Some people called the policy racist."

Here's the actual text of the article... "The references to oversized jewelry, low and belt-less pants, and head gear, particularly, were seen by some as racially specific and led a number of patrons to take to social media to question if the bar is expressly attempting to keep patrons of color out of the premises."

You assume the press is liberal... makes you a conservative... the "press" is middle of the road.


The only ones making a big "national" deal out of this local story is the "liberal press". In your citation, the writer gets to explain the "subliminal racism" in the poster... while other liberal press claim it is "overt racism" So what exactly is it? Kinda like picking between global warming or climate change.

Posted on: 1/19 3:16
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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mscottc wrote:
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JC_Man wrote:
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mscottc wrote:
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JC_Man wrote:
Completely agree - the Left turns EVERYTHING into a race or class war. And let's blame this on Trump while we're at it.


Excuse me... it seems to me you're turning a statement you don't like into a liberal thing. I'm quite liberal, and I'm not sure where the bar's dress code states anything racist. You don't have to be liberal to interpret the dress code in any number of different ways.

Your statement potentially says to me that Conservatives have to to slam everything they don't like as "liberal." But even I know that that broad a generalization is idiocy. So I'll pin the idiocy on you, not all conservatives.


Read the original article!! The article mentioned race - that's my point - the liberal (press) turns EVERYTHING into race, class, black/white.


Reread the article... the article said (and I'm simplifying) "Some people called the policy racist." The writer of the article didn't say it was racist, I'll repeat, they said "Some people called the policy racist."

Here's the actual text of the article... "The references to oversized jewelry, low and belt-less pants, and head gear, particularly, were seen by some as racially specific and led a number of patrons to take to social media to question if the bar is expressly attempting to keep patrons of color out of the premises."

You assume the press is liberal... makes you a conservative... the "press" is middle of the road.


LMAO!! The press is the middle of the road - are you smoking weed? PS - The Easter Bunny will be here in a few months too.

Posted on: 1/19 0:30
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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JC_Man wrote:
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mscottc wrote:
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JC_Man wrote:
Completely agree - the Left turns EVERYTHING into a race or class war. And let's blame this on Trump while we're at it.


Excuse me... it seems to me you're turning a statement you don't like into a liberal thing. I'm quite liberal, and I'm not sure where the bar's dress code states anything racist. You don't have to be liberal to interpret the dress code in any number of different ways.

Your statement potentially says to me that Conservatives have to to slam everything they don't like as "liberal." But even I know that that broad a generalization is idiocy. So I'll pin the idiocy on you, not all conservatives.


Read the original article!! The article mentioned race - that's my point - the liberal (press) turns EVERYTHING into race, class, black/white.


Reread the article... the article said (and I'm simplifying) "Some people called the policy racist." The writer of the article didn't say it was racist, I'll repeat, they said "Some people called the policy racist."

Here's the actual text of the article... "The references to oversized jewelry, low and belt-less pants, and head gear, particularly, were seen by some as racially specific and led a number of patrons to take to social media to question if the bar is expressly attempting to keep patrons of color out of the premises."

You assume the press is liberal... makes you a conservative... the "press" is middle of the road.

Posted on: 1/18 20:49
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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Not sure why the dress code even matters. Plenty of slacks and leather loafer wearing idiots puke on my stoop after a night drinking on Newark ave.

Posted on: 1/18 19:51
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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.
Fancy bar’s dress code against baggy pants and chains was ‘subliminal’ racism

Updated 7:20 PM; Posted 7:20 PM
By Barry Carter | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

People should dress nicely. Something simple, like that, could have done it.

But, The Ashford, a new Jersey City bar and lounge, made sure patrons understood its concept of unacceptable attire by posting a 15-item list of banned clothing and accessories last month during a soft opening.


https://www.nj.com/news/2019/01/fancy- ... as-subliminal-racism.html

Posted on: 1/18 2:03
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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mscottc wrote:
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JC_Man wrote:
Completely agree - the Left turns EVERYTHING into a race or class war. And let's blame this on Trump while we're at it.


Excuse me... it seems to me you're turning a statement you don't like into a liberal thing. I'm quite liberal, and I'm not sure where the bar's dress code states anything racist. You don't have to be liberal to interpret the dress code in any number of different ways.

Your statement potentially says to me that Conservatives have to to slam everything they don't like as "liberal." But even I know that that broad a generalization is idiocy. So I'll pin the idiocy on you, not all conservatives.


Read the original article!! The article mentioned race - that's my point - the liberal (press) turns EVERYTHING into race, class, black/white.

Posted on: 1/18 1:42
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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It's only racist to the racist people that think only certain races dress in certain ways.

Posted on: 1/18 1:16
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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bodhipooh wrote:
surely you can admit that some people will actually argue that ANY dress code is racist.


There are plenty of people triggered by ANY dress code, I've seen people horrified by McNair's. There was an online shitshow a year or 2 ago about a CA girl who deliberately violated her school's code about covered shoulders getting suspended, and OMG did people freak about the "clothing Nazis".

Did anyone read the Sunday Times Business section advice column 2 weeks ago where a person was concerned about their young female supervisor's "under dressing", and the columnist rips him a new one calling him a ogling sexist old man? The writer didn't reveal gender till the end of the letter and I thought it was by a middle aged woman! Somehow clothing choice has become a human right not to be trampled on.

And I agree, IF the anecdotes about the inconsistent application of the bar's dress code are true, then that is the problem, not the code itself.

Posted on: 1/17 20:46
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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neverleft wrote:
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Seems the Ashford sign is getting some national media attention.

Funny here is the shore’s old popular hangout Bar A’s dress code…no issues….

https://bar-a.com/must-know/dress-code/

.


That's because it is a non issue..........until people decide to make one.


Posted on: 1/17 16:31
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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Seems the Ashford sign is getting some national media attention.

Funny here is the shore’s old popular hangout Bar A’s dress code…no issues….

https://bar-a.com/must-know/dress-code/

.

Posted on: 1/17 16:11
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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Dolomiti wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Not sure why so many people felt triggered or bothered by this, other than they are making it something it is not.

People are reacting to claims that the dress code was selectively applied, as an excuse for racial discrimination.

The title of the articles about the Ashford are poorly written, as the dress code itself is not racist. It's the way it was allegedly used.


Quote:
Restaurant and bars can't win in this environment: if they try to keep out troublemakers and riff raff, they are automatically labeled as racists....

Yeah, that's not what is happening here. There is no problem whatsoever with ejecting a customer who is causing trouble. What a bar or restaurant can't do is eject every customer with brown skin because the owners or managers or bouncers suspect they will cause trouble.

(It should be fairly obvious that wearing baseball caps, sunglasses, cargo pants and work boots doesn't mean you are "riff raff." It means you're wearing a cap, sunglasses, cargo pants and work boots.)

I also don't hear of a lot of bars in the greater NYC area getting dinged with allegations of racism because they are throwing out troublemakers.


Funny... as a POC, I have never felt discriminated against, but I sure have a lot of people telling me I should be offended at nonsense. I am all in favor of bars and restaurants being selective and enforcing their dress codes.

At the same time, I am not an idiot and fully understand your overall point: any such policy should be applied equally and consistently. But, surely you can admit that some people will actually argue that ANY dress code is racist. The Zepp was similarly dinged many years ago when they published their first dress code. Over time, their dress code has been modified and tweaked to adjust to new concerns, but they have remained fairly consistent. With Surf City (same owners) it was the same at some point. Honestly, it gets tiresome to have so many white people get offended on my behalf. Save the outrage for real issues.

Posted on: 1/17 16:05

Edited by bodhipooh on 2019/1/17 16:26:05
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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bodhipooh wrote:
Not sure why so many people felt triggered or bothered by this, other than they are making it something it is not.

People are reacting to claims that the dress code was selectively applied, as an excuse for racial discrimination.

The title of the articles about the Ashford are poorly written, as the dress code itself is not racist. It's the way it was allegedly used.


Quote:
Restaurant and bars can't win in this environment: if they try to keep out troublemakers and riff raff, they are automatically labeled as racists....

Yeah, that's not what is happening here. There is no problem whatsoever with ejecting a customer who is causing trouble. What a bar or restaurant can't do is eject every customer with brown skin because the owners or managers or bouncers suspect they will cause trouble.

(It should be fairly obvious that wearing baseball caps, sunglasses, cargo pants and work boots doesn't mean you are "riff raff." It means you're wearing a cap, sunglasses, cargo pants and work boots.)

I also don't hear of a lot of bars in the greater NYC area getting dinged with allegations of racism because they are throwing out troublemakers.

Posted on: 1/17 15:32
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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brewster wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
It's not so much the rules but selective enforcement to keep blacks out. A simple business casual required (collar shirt, dress shoes required) would have done the trick if they were serious about the dress code.


But as I said previously, then they'd be open to discrimination charges for all the other "nonprofessional" attire they don't want in there, and why I assume they though a detailed and explicit list would inoculate them. Didn't work out that way...

Requiring professional attire does not violate any anti-discrimination laws. "Those who wear sweatpants" is not a protected class. If they kicked out everyone who wears sneakers, regardless of race or gender or sexual orientation, then the policy is fine -- even if it rubs some people the wrong way.

However, If you have a dress code, you have to apply it neutrally and uniformly; you can't use it as an excuse or cover for racial discrimination. For example, "Sam K" wrote on Yelp:

Confused with the dress code.

My blonde female friend was allowed in with loose sweat pants but for some reason the other guys in our group (who happened to be black and wearing normal looking pants or at least we thought they were), were not allowed in and told by the bouncer they do not let people in pajamas in. According to their dress code sign now (that they put in place after our night out), Adidas trainers are bad maybe worse than pajamas. But then at the same time my white male friend was let in with gym sneakers no issue.

Let's face it. This is going to be one of those places. So if you're into that, you'll have a blast. If you're not, there's plenty of fun places in JC to choose from beyond the first couple blocks of Newark ave without racist and sexist policies.



If this is true (and obviously, just posting it on Yelp doesn't prove that it's true), then posting the dress code isn't the problem. It is that someone using the dress code as an excuse to engage in racial discrimination, which is unethical and violates public accommodation laws.

Posted on: 1/17 15:17
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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135jc wrote:
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
There are signs in many shore restaurants that says: No Shirt, No Service. That means restaurant owners can discriminate.


Of course it makes sense a person like Yvonne, who never saw a form of discrimination she didn't like, wouldn't understand the fact that this is selectively enforced and intended to keep out people of color at the bouncer's discretion.


Not really. More to the point is people like you trying to make it about race. The bar simply feels that people who dress a certian way act a certian way and they dont want that aggravation


Bingo! Which goes to the point made by Brewster, that this is just another example of people's confusion (and, conflation) of class and race. Nothing about that dress code was racist, but definitely classist. Their business, their choice. Not sure why so many people felt triggered or bothered by this, other than they are making it something it is not.

Restaurant and bars can't win in this environment: if they try to keep out troublemakers and riff raff, they are automatically labeled as racists, but if they turn a blind eye and let anything go, then their business suffers in the long term as people who seek a nicer, more pleasant environment move on to somewhere else.

Posted on: 1/17 15:14
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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JC_Man wrote:
Completely agree - the Left turns EVERYTHING into a race or class war. And let's blame this on Trump while we're at it.


Excuse me... it seems to me you're turning a statement you don't like into a liberal thing. I'm quite liberal, and I'm not sure where the bar's dress code states anything racist. You don't have to be liberal to interpret the dress code in any number of different ways.

Your statement potentially says to me that Conservatives have to to slam everything they don't like as "liberal." But even I know that that broad a generalization is idiocy. So I'll pin the idiocy on you, not all conservatives.

Posted on: 1/17 12:49
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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JCGuys wrote:
It's not so much the rules but selective enforcement to keep blacks out. A simple business casual required (collar shirt, dress shoes required) would have done the trick if they were serious about the dress code.


But as I said previously, then they'd be open to discrimination charges for all the other "nonprofessional" attire they don't want in there, and why I assume they though a detailed and explicit list would inoculate them. Didn't work out that way...

Posted on: 1/17 3:51
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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This silly story is on prominent national news websites... yawn.

Posted on: 1/17 3:43
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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135jc wrote:
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
There are signs in many shore restaurants that says: No Shirt, No Service. That means restaurant owners can discriminate.


Of course it makes sense a person like Yvonne, who never saw a form of discrimination she didn't like, wouldn't understand the fact that this is selectively enforced and intended to keep out people of color at the bouncer's discretion.


Not really. More to the point is people like you trying to make it about race. The bar simply feels that people who dress a certian way act a certian way and they dont want that aggravation


Completely agree - the Left turns EVERYTHING into a race or class war. And let's blame this on Trump while we're at it.

Posted on: 1/17 1:22
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
There are signs in many shore restaurants that says: No Shirt, No Service. That means restaurant owners can discriminate.


Of course it makes sense a person like Yvonne, who never saw a form of discrimination she didn't like, wouldn't understand the fact that this is selectively enforced and intended to keep out people of color at the bouncer's discretion.


Not really. More to the point is people like you trying to make it about race. The bar simply feels that people who dress a certian way act a certian way and they dont want that aggravation

Posted on: 1/17 0:33
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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On_The_3rd wrote:
If the dress code for The Ashford is anything like Surf City, it's more sexist than racist. 90% of the clothing items they describe are typically worn by men. There's no mention of skirts too short, heels too high, or clothing too revealing. They are trying to keep certain kinds of men out, but have no objection to letting any kind of woman in. If you're comfortable supporting businesses with these kinds of bro-douche policies that aim to keep male attendance low and female attendance high, then have at it.


Reminds me of a bar in college... Cover was $20 for men. But for women it was AYCD (All You Can Drink) for free. It's where you went if you wanted to get laid that night.

Posted on: 1/16 23:55
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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It's not so much the rules but selective enforcement to keep blacks out. A simple business casual required (collar shirt, dress shoes required) would have done the trick if they were serious about the dress code.

Why anyone would patronage that spot now is beyond me.
The dress code they posted is some pretentious shit, racist or not.

Per Yelp, the food probably isn't even that good.

Posted on: 1/16 23:52
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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Another slow day on JC List....

Posted on: 1/16 22:59
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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If the dress code for The Ashford is anything like Surf City, it's more sexist than racist. 90% of the clothing items they describe are typically worn by men. There's no mention of skirts too short, heels too high, or clothing too revealing. They are trying to keep certain kinds of men out, but have no objection to letting any kind of woman in. If you're comfortable supporting businesses with these kinds of bro-douche policies that aim to keep male attendance low and female attendance high, then have at it.

Posted on: 1/16 22:25
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Re: A new N.J. bar’s dress code was called racist. The owner says it was ‘an oversight.’
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Yvonne wrote:
There are signs in many shore restaurants that says: No Shirt, No Service. That means restaurant owners can discriminate.


Yes, that means they can discriminate against people who are not wearing a shirt. Being shirtless is not a classification subject to any legal scrutiny.

Posted on: 1/16 22:14
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Yvonne wrote:
There are signs in many shore restaurants that says: No Shirt, No Service. That means restaurant owners can discriminate.


Of course it makes sense a person like Yvonne, who never saw a form of discrimination she didn't like, wouldn't understand the fact that this is selectively enforced and intended to keep out people of color at the bouncer's discretion.

Posted on: 1/16 21:47
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There are signs in many shore restaurants that says: No Shirt, No Service. That means restaurant owners can discriminate.

Posted on: 1/16 19:49
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A few summers ago, my husband, son and I were biking around Liberty State Park and wanted to stop at Surf City for dinner. My son was refused entrance because his shorts were a tan camo printed denim. No camo! ???

Posted on: 1/16 19:01
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