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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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devilsadvocate wrote:

I just want it noted that someone else brought my dick into this thread. Which, I know doesn't seem plausible but it is.


I can corroborate this, LOL.

Posted on: 4/16 13:42
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
I am discussing this item because I'm a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that neither you nor Parkman are. These are not semantics, they go to a key definition without which you cannot enforce the law. Further, your explanation is the law according to Frank, but I was hoping for something more substantive.


More substantive?? I offered my firsthand experience of an unusual, specific, ongoing phenomenon that relates directly the subject. All you did was tell us you’re a lawyer and that regarding nuisances, only that basically “it is a term for which a definition exists.” Oh, and some crap about Lassie, retards, horsepower, and how you feel about your dick.


I just want it noted that someone else brought my dick into this thread. Which, I know doesn't seem plausible but it is.

Posted on: 4/16 13:08
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
I am discussing this item because I'm a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that neither you nor Parkman are. These are not semantics, they go to a key definition without which you cannot enforce the law. Further, your explanation is the law according to Frank, but I was hoping for something more substantive.


More substantive?? I offered my firsthand experience of an unusual, specific, ongoing phenomenon that relates directly the subject. All you did was tell us you’re a lawyer and that regarding nuisances, only that basically “it is a term for which a definition exists.” Oh, and some crap about Lassie, retards, horsepower, and how you feel about your dick.

Posted on: 4/16 12:32
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Homenowhere wrote:
Are we going to start correcting grammar on an anonymous forum now? I believe that would be the biggest undertaking put forth so far in this thread.


I'm not dismissing your post because of it, I'm only suggesting that you look into something that you keep doing incorrectly because it means something different than you intend. Everybody makes mistakes, and as I said, take no offense.


It's an online forum Frank, a ton of these post's use "u" instead of "you."

Also I am fine with a neighbor saying something like "Your dog has been barking for a half hour, do you mind?" That's fine honestly, its a reminder, a plea to be a good neighbor after a certain amount of time has past.

I have just noticed the only two different people and times I have ever seen some one called out for dog's barking is by larger older men to younger smaller women who are alone. They always get very loud and very close to these women. I guess that just put's a bad taste in my mouth. Like they are trying to physically intimidate them, its never a friendly "Hey ma'am, I noticed" ect ect.

It always seem's like the person is already irritated and looking for a confrontation. Yelling, pissed off people, scarring other people.

Posted on: 4/16 11:58
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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"Nuisance" is a term with legal significance. It does not mean something that is annoying. There is an entire body of law on the subject.


You’re seriously debating this subject with Parkman—and with semantics rather than firsthand experience?

The canine equivalent of a person honking on a vuvuzela for the better part of an hour in a small public park, on a regular basis, is a nuisance. Specific to Van Vorst Park, I could not help but be made aware of one particular individual who introduced their dog to the kennel last year. This person often visited during the early evening, and their dog would bark incessantly to the point of hoarseness if not outright exhaustion. When a single dog can be repeatedly identified as creating unusually sustained noise that can be heard by every resident with a window on the park, out of the hundreds of dogs whose owners bring them to the park without making a reputation for themselves, that’s a nuisance.


I am discussing this item because I'm a lawyer and I'm pretty sure that neither you nor Parkman are. These are not semantics, they go to a key definition without which you cannot enforce the law. Further, your explanation is the law according to Frank, but I was hoping for something more substantive.

Posted on: 4/16 11:55
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Homenowhere wrote:
Are we going to start correcting grammar on an anonymous forum now? I believe that would be the biggest undertaking put forth so far in this thread.


I'm not dismissing your post because of it, I'm only suggesting that you look into something that you keep doing incorrectly because it means something different than you intend. Everybody makes mistakes, and as I said, take no offense.

Posted on: 4/16 11:27
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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What did the cop's say when you called in a noise complaint? I'm honestly just curious.


Barring serious accident or witnessing a real crime taking place, I don't call the police on my neighbors. There are plenty of jerks who can pick up the slack for me in that department.

(FWIW, no offense, but you may want to review the rules for using an apostrophe.)


Are we going to start correcting grammar on an anonymous forum now? I believe that would be the biggest undertaking put forth so far in this thread.

Posted on: 4/16 11:14
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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What did the cop's say when you called in a noise complaint? I'm honestly just curious.


Barring serious accident or witnessing a real crime taking place, I don't call the police on my neighbors. There are plenty of jerks who can pick up the slack for me in that department.

(FWIW, no offense, but you may want to review the rules for using an apostrophe.)

Posted on: 4/16 11:07
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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"Nuisance" is a term with legal significance. It does not mean something that is annoying. There is an entire body of law on the subject.


You’re seriously debating this subject with Parkman—and with semantics rather than firsthand experience?

The canine equivalent of a person honking on a vuvuzela for the better part of an hour in a small public park, on a regular basis, is a nuisance. Specific to Van Vorst Park, I could not help but be made aware of one particular individual who introduced their dog to the kennel last year. This person often visited during the early evening, and their dog would bark incessantly to the point of hoarseness if not outright exhaustion. When a single dog can be repeatedly identified as creating unusually sustained noise that can be heard by every resident with a window on the park, out of the hundreds of dogs whose owners bring them to the park without making a reputation for themselves, that’s a nuisance.
Thank you Frank for the perspective. Homenowhere, this has nothing to do with people feeling like the park is "their's".

Enough said. In the grand scheme, if there is such a thing, it's the size of a flea on the universe (but it's still in fact, annoying).

Posted on: 4/16 10:56
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Frank_M wrote:
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"Nuisance" is a term with legal significance. It does not mean something that is annoying. There is an entire body of law on the subject.


You’re seriously debating this subject with Parkman—and with semantics rather than firsthand experience?

The canine equivalent of a person honking on a vuvuzela for the better part of an hour in a small public park, on a regular basis, is a nuisance. Specific to Van Vorst Park, I could not help but be made aware of one particular individual who introduced their dog to the kennel last year. This person often visited during the early evening, and their dog would bark incessantly to the point of hoarseness if not outright exhaustion. When a single dog can be repeatedly identified as creating unusually sustained noise that can be heard by every resident with a window on the park, out of the hundreds of dogs whose owners bring them to the park without making a reputation for themselves, that’s a nuisance.


What did the cop's say when you called in a noise complaint? I'm honestly just curious.

Posted on: 4/16 10:53
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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"Nuisance" is a term with legal significance. It does not mean something that is annoying. There is an entire body of law on the subject.


You’re seriously debating this subject with Parkman—and with semantics rather than firsthand experience?

The canine equivalent of a person honking on a vuvuzela for the better part of an hour in a small public park, on a regular basis, is a nuisance. Specific to Van Vorst Park, I could not help but be made aware of one particular individual who introduced their dog to the kennel last year. This person often visited during the early evening, and their dog would bark incessantly to the point of hoarseness if not outright exhaustion. When a single dog can be repeatedly identified as creating unusually sustained noise that can be heard by every resident with a window on the park, out of the hundreds of dogs whose owners bring them to the park without making a reputation for themselves, that’s a nuisance.

Posted on: 4/16 10:37
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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In the end though, dog's bark and you can't throw a dog out for barking when it is excited.

§ 90-19. - Noisy dogs. City Ordinance

"No dog shall be allowed to unnecessarily disturb the peace or rest of persons residing in the neighborhood wherein it is kept or harbored or otherwise become a nuisance."

Having a dog you can't/won't train, that barks constantly, doesn't give you the right to be inconsiderate of others.


You don't keep or harbor a dog at a dog park. Thats what that ordinance says, its too keep your neighbor from having a dog baking in his back yard all night. Because it would be unexpected and inappropriate. That does not have to do with a dog park.

Owning a loud animal that is being loud in an area designated for animals is not a crime and there is no ordinance about it. You can think it's rude, thats about it, because anything past that gets too complicated and ruins the point of a dog run anyway. Being offended or annoyed does not give you any rights to tell others what they can or can not do in your own subjective view point and expect them to listen.
To put a fine point in this, you left off the last part of the ordinance "OR otherwise become a nuisance". I'm not looking to have these people tickled, I'm just seeking some consideration for the surrounding neighborhood, and even others in the run. VVP's dog run is the front yard to about 75 people and most moved in before the run was built.


I did leave that out, I am sorry, I focused on just what I wanted to see and it was early in the morning. It still seem's pretty vague but I guess that would involve the ticketing officer, the complainer, and the accused.

While you may want to think of it as the front lawn of 75 people, its really just a public park. A park meant for literally anyone, owned by the state, run by the park's department. Any one else who is there is simply a volunteer, a concerned citizen, or a neighbor. Nothing more.

Thinking of it as a front lawn will just have people yelling at other's about what they believe is their's when it is not.

Posted on: 4/16 9:54
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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parkman wrote:
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Homenowhere wrote:
In the end though, dog's bark and you can't throw a dog out for barking when it is excited.

§ 90-19. - Noisy dogs. City Ordinance

"No dog shall be allowed to unnecessarily disturb the peace or rest of persons residing in the neighborhood wherein it is kept or harbored or otherwise become a nuisance."

Having a dog you can't/won't train, that barks constantly, doesn't give you the right to be inconsiderate of others.


You don't keep or harbor a dog at a dog park. Thats what that ordinance says, its too keep your neighbor from having a dog baking in his back yard all night. Because it would be unexpected and inappropriate. That does not have to do with a dog park.

Owning a loud animal that is being loud in an area designated for animals is not a crime and there is no ordinance about it. You can think it's rude, thats about it, because anything past that gets too complicated and ruins the point of a dog run anyway. Being offended or annoyed does not give you any rights to tell others what they can or can not do in your own subjective view point and expect them to listen.
To put a fine point in this, you left off the last part of the ordinance "OR otherwise become a nuisance". I'm not looking to have these people tickled, I'm just seeking some consideration for the surrounding neighborhood, and even others in the run. VVP's dog run is the front yard to about 75 people and most moved in before the run was built.


"Nuisance" is a term with legal significance. It does not mean something that is annoying. There is an entire body of law on the subject.

Posted on: 4/16 9:53
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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In reality, you're going to have a tough time keeping people's dogs from barking excessively.

Let's be real; we have to resort to ticketing just to make them keep their dogs on leash and clean up their turds. Pick your battles dude.



Posted on: 4/16 9:06
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Homenowhere wrote:
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parkman wrote:
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Homenowhere wrote:
In the end though, dog's bark and you can't throw a dog out for barking when it is excited.

§ 90-19. - Noisy dogs. City Ordinance

"No dog shall be allowed to unnecessarily disturb the peace or rest of persons residing in the neighborhood wherein it is kept or harbored or otherwise become a nuisance."

Having a dog you can't/won't train, that barks constantly, doesn't give you the right to be inconsiderate of others.


You don't keep or harbor a dog at a dog park. Thats what that ordinance says, its too keep your neighbor from having a dog baking in his back yard all night. Because it would be unexpected and inappropriate. That does not have to do with a dog park.

Owning a loud animal that is being loud in an area designated for animals is not a crime and there is no ordinance about it. You can think it's rude, thats about it, because anything past that gets too complicated and ruins the point of a dog run anyway. Being offended or annoyed does not give you any rights to tell others what they can or can not do in your own subjective view point and expect them to listen.
To put a fine point in this, you left off the last part of the ordinance "OR otherwise become a nuisance". I'm not looking to have these people tickled, I'm just seeking some consideration for the surrounding neighborhood, and even others in the run. VVP's dog run is the front yard to about 75 people and most moved in before the run was built.

Posted on: 4/16 8:35
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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parkman wrote:
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Homenowhere wrote:
In the end though, dog's bark and you can't throw a dog out for barking when it is excited.

§ 90-19. - Noisy dogs. City Ordinance

"No dog shall be allowed to unnecessarily disturb the peace or rest of persons residing in the neighborhood wherein it is kept or harbored or otherwise become a nuisance."

Having a dog you can't/won't train, that barks constantly, doesn't give you the right to be inconsiderate of others.


You don't keep or harbor a dog at a dog park. Thats what that ordinance says, its too keep your neighbor from having a dog baking in his back yard all night. Because it would be unexpected and inappropriate. That does not have to do with a dog park.

Owning a loud animal that is being loud in an area designated for animals is not a crime and there is no ordinance about it. You can think it's rude, thats about it, because anything past that gets too complicated and ruins the point of a dog run anyway. Being offended or annoyed does not give you any rights to tell others what they can or can not do in your own subjective view point and expect them to listen.

Posted on: 4/16 8:02
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Vigilante wrote:
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parkman wrote:
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Homenowhere wrote:
In the end though, dog's bark and you can't throw a dog out for barking when it is excited.

§ 90-19. - Noisy dogs. City Ordinance

"No dog shall be allowed to unnecessarily disturb the peace or rest of persons residing in the neighborhood wherein it is kept or harbored or otherwise become a nuisance."

Having a dog you can't/won't train, that barks constantly, doesn't give you the right to be inconsiderate of others.


Ya'll can kiss my ass. People fell over themselves to leave a basketball court in HP that is 50 feet from residences and gets activity 24 hours a day in the warmer months. Now you want to start bitching about dogs? Suck it.
Do you eat with that same mouth?

These two things are not mutually exclusive, nor do they cancel each other out.

Posted on: 4/15 23:29
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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What does that post mean vigilante?

People in the park ran away from the basketball court?

Robin.

Posted on: 4/15 23:26
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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parkman wrote:
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Homenowhere wrote:
In the end though, dog's bark and you can't throw a dog out for barking when it is excited.

§ 90-19. - Noisy dogs. City Ordinance

"No dog shall be allowed to unnecessarily disturb the peace or rest of persons residing in the neighborhood wherein it is kept or harbored or otherwise become a nuisance."

Having a dog you can't/won't train, that barks constantly, doesn't give you the right to be inconsiderate of others.


Ya'll can kiss my ass. People fell over themselves to leave a basketball court in HP that is 50 feet from residences and gets activity 24 hours a day in the warmer months. Now you want to start bitching about dogs? Suck it.

Posted on: 4/15 23:24
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Homenowhere wrote:
In the end though, dog's bark and you can't throw a dog out for barking when it is excited.

§ 90-19. - Noisy dogs. City Ordinance

"No dog shall be allowed to unnecessarily disturb the peace or rest of persons residing in the neighborhood wherein it is kept or harbored or otherwise become a nuisance."

Having a dog you can't/won't train, that barks constantly, doesn't give you the right to be inconsiderate of others.

Posted on: 4/15 23:10
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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I'd be interested to see stats on JC dog-related injuries before and after the ticketing campaign. Outside of dog fights in cramped dog runs and police home searches, I rarely hear of any.


I'd imagine the injury stats will remain at a minimal level, both before and after the campaign.

Posted on: 4/15 23:07
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Counter-intuitive perhaps, but if there are more unsocialized, unexercised dogs, there may be an increase in dog-related injuries. And having a leash on a dog doesn't necessarily make it safer. Can't hurt to look at the stats.

Posted on: 4/15 22:53
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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I'd be interested to see stats on JC dog-related injuries before and after the ticketing campaign. Outside of dog fights in cramped dog runs and police home searches, I rarely hear of any.


I believe that's why they're called "quality of life" issues and not "life or death" issues.

Posted on: 4/15 22:23
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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I'd be interested to see stats on JC dog-related injuries before and after the ticketing campaign. Outside of dog fights in cramped dog runs and police home searches, I rarely hear of any.

Posted on: 4/15 19:51
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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I wasn't talking about a dog trainer. I was talking about you.

Anyone who thinks aggressive dog behavior is acceptable, I don't want your business. But if you want a calm, heeling pack walk, that is what I provide.

Posted on: 4/15 18:43
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Tell me more about me.


OK. If you think your dog is allowed to terrorize the neighborhood and you don't care to investigate solutions, you need professional help.


Wrong. My dog doesn't actually bark. I was just noting that it was a stupid complaint for those living on a dog park.

You're also massively overselling your skills and flat out wrong on dog training.

Posted on: 4/15 18:42
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Tell me more about me.


OK. If you think your dog is allowed to terrorize the neighborhood and you don't care to investigate solutions, you need professional help.

Posted on: 4/15 18:24
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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[quote]A more nuanced approach is far wiser.


Given your lax, possibly non-existent, training skills. I stand by my original post.


Tell me more about me. This should be good.

Posted on: 4/15 18:05
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Ok since this thread has gone completely off topic, as most on here do, let's get back to the original topic

No one involved in this campaign is anti dog. Of you own a dog, keep it on leash, clean up after it, and be sure it's properly registered and licensed.

The enforcement increase is coming and you will be ticketed a significant sum of money if caught without a leash, not cleaning up after your dog and if its not licensed.

If anyone on either side of this debate wants more say, get involved in your local neighborhood association and make it happen.

The insults back and forth are completely unnecessary.

Posted on: 4/15 18:03
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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[quote]A more nuanced approach is far wiser.


Given your lax, possibly non-existent, training skills. I stand by my original post.

Posted on: 4/15 18:03
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