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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Once in a while you will see a 7 car set

Posted on: 2016/9/21 14:12
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irish wrote:
The Newark line only runs 8 cars


Well the point still stands - rather than running 8 cars random trains are showing up with only 7 cars as if they were running on the 33rd-JSQ line. What's up with that?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 13:22
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The Newark line only runs 8 cars

Posted on: 2016/9/21 12:07
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For the past 4-6 weeks trains on the NWK-WTC line have been randomly showing up during both the morning and evening rush hour missing one or two cars.

The commuters spread themselves along the platform in anticipation of the usual 10-car service only to have an 8 or 9 car train pull in, causing a sudden stampede up the platform to cram themselves into the last car.

This has happened on my commute about a dozen times or so over the last month, with no apparent rhyme or reason to which trains come with a full complement of 10 cars and which come with only 8 or 9. it's very frustrating for those of us who board at the rear of the trains.

Anyone know why this is happening now? I've never encountered this on the WTC line in all the years I've been riding the PATH until this summer.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 10:31
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Quote:

Voyeur wrote:
Final two platforms at WTC opened this morning. Egress was surprisingly smooth.

Similar to how the 33rd St platforms operate, right hand doors open up allowing passengers out onto an empty platform and then up dedicated exit stairs and escalators, so you don't have to contend with anyone coming down.

Early days, but it looks like the PA at least has managed to somewhat address the crowding getting down to and up from the PATH platforms.

A very tentative "good job, guys".


yeah the "exit only" signs at the top of the escalators are a nice touch.

Posted on: 2016/9/8 15:23
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Final two platforms at WTC opened this morning. Egress was surprisingly smooth.

Similar to how the 33rd St platforms operate, right hand doors open up allowing passengers out onto an empty platform and then up dedicated exit stairs and escalators, so you don't have to contend with anyone coming down.

Early days, but it looks like the PA at least has managed to somewhat address the crowding getting down to and up from the PATH platforms.

A very tentative "good job, guys".

Posted on: 2016/9/8 14:07
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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I'm not sure this counters my point, right? A lot of what you itemized is outside of the scope of the oculus itself, and would still be required, regardless of whether they built the Taj Mahal on the site, or just borrowed from the Waffle House design manual and erected a little shack.

I'll cop to lets say half the principal construction fees, Calatrava's fee, hlaf the admin, and all of the steel. Even so, that's like a 1.3bn dollars, and I think that's a generous estimate.

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

ahal wrote:
I think it is important to note that the figure is closer to $400 million, not $4 billion. At least for the part of the station that people have an opinion of (the oculus)

It's a bit more than that. As best determined from public sources:

• Temporary PATH station: $323m

• Principal construction fees: $980m

• Infrastructure for adjacent sites: $400m

• Building around the 1 Train: $355m (demanded by Pataki)

• Calatrava's fees: $80m

• Exterior / landscape design team: $400m

• Administrative costs: $655m

• Steel for the project: $474m

• Speeding up construction for the 10th year anniversary: $78m (Bloomberg demand)

• Sandy damage: Not specified, probably hundreds of millions


Posted on: 2016/9/1 14:01
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heights wrote:
Regular normal schedule to 33rd St. for this weekend and a holiday/Saturday schedule for Labor Day on Monday. The federal mandate project schedule sans the 33rd St line will resume the weekend after Labor Day


Thanks!

Posted on: 2016/9/1 12:49
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ahal wrote:
I think it is important to note that the figure is closer to $400 million, not $4 billion. At least for the part of the station that people have an opinion of (the oculus)

It's a bit more than that. As best determined from public sources:

• Temporary PATH station: $323m

• Principal construction fees: $980m

• Infrastructure for adjacent sites: $400m

• Building around the 1 Train: $355m (demanded by Pataki)

• Calatrava's fees: $80m

• Exterior / landscape design team: $400m

• Administrative costs: $655m

• Steel for the project: $474m

• Speeding up construction for the 10th year anniversary: $78m (Bloomberg demand)

• Sandy damage: Not specified, probably hundreds of millions


Posted on: 2016/8/31 19:38
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Regular normal schedule to 33rd St. for this weekend and a holiday/Saturday schedule for Labor Day on Monday. The federal mandate project schedule sans the 33rd St line will resume the weekend after Labor Day

Posted on: 2016/8/31 19:25
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Regular normal schedule to 33rd St. for this weekend and a holiday/Saturday schedule for Labor Day on Monday. The federal mandate project schedule sans the 33rd St line will resume the weekend after Labor Day..

Posted on: 2016/8/31 19:24
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pretty much everything published about the "no 33rd street train on weekends" has said "EXCEPT holidays."

so it's safe to say that the regular, no-construction-era weekend schedule will be in place during this upcoming Labor Day holiday weekend.

Quote:

SRhia wrote:
But there is no service to 34th Str on saturdays (or sundays, for that matter), isn't that right? If there's no service to 34th, why would there be a "schedule" to 34th (or - could that "schedule" be trusted)?

This is so confusing...

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

SRhia wrote:
Does anyone know what routes the PATH will be running this weekend?

I need to go into midtown this sunday, and I just checked PATH's holiday schedule - which says it'll be running a "Saturday schedule". Does this mean no direct service to 34th? Everything goes to WTC?

However, I just found this from their Weekend outage pdf:

The free shuttle bus will run every weekend through December 19, 2016, except for Labor Day (Sept. 3-5), Veteran’s Day (Nov. 11-13), and Thanksgiving (Nov. 24-27).
During those three holiday weekends, PATH will run regular holiday weekend service on all lines, and there will be no shuttle bus.



So - what is the "regular holiday weekend service"???


Seems you answered your own question. That link clearly states that there will be no shuttle this weekend, meaning there will be direct service to 33rd. By "Saturday schedule" I assume they mean the timing of the trains. It's different on Sundays.

Posted on: 2016/8/31 19:22
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But there is no service to 34th Str on saturdays (or sundays, for that matter), isn't that right? If there's no service to 34th, why would there be a "schedule" to 34th (or - could that "schedule" be trusted)?

This is so confusing...

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

SRhia wrote:
Does anyone know what routes the PATH will be running this weekend?

I need to go into midtown this sunday, and I just checked PATH's holiday schedule - which says it'll be running a "Saturday schedule". Does this mean no direct service to 34th? Everything goes to WTC?

However, I just found this from their Weekend outage pdf:

The free shuttle bus will run every weekend through December 19, 2016, except for Labor Day (Sept. 3-5), Veteran’s Day (Nov. 11-13), and Thanksgiving (Nov. 24-27).
During those three holiday weekends, PATH will run regular holiday weekend service on all lines, and there will be no shuttle bus.



So - what is the "regular holiday weekend service"???


Seems you answered your own question. That link clearly states that there will be no shuttle this weekend, meaning there will be direct service to 33rd. By "Saturday schedule" I assume they mean the timing of the trains. It's different on Sundays.

Posted on: 2016/8/31 19:08
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Quote:

SRhia wrote:
Does anyone know what routes the PATH will be running this weekend?

I need to go into midtown this sunday, and I just checked PATH's holiday schedule - which says it'll be running a "Saturday schedule". Does this mean no direct service to 34th? Everything goes to WTC?

However, I just found this from their Weekend outage pdf:

The free shuttle bus will run every weekend through December 19, 2016, except for Labor Day (Sept. 3-5), Veteran’s Day (Nov. 11-13), and Thanksgiving (Nov. 24-27).
During those three holiday weekends, PATH will run regular holiday weekend service on all lines, and there will be no shuttle bus.



So - what is the "regular holiday weekend service"???


Seems you answered your own question. That link clearly states that there will be no shuttle this weekend, meaning there will be direct service to 33rd. By "Saturday schedule" I assume they mean the timing of the trains. It's different on Sundays.

Posted on: 2016/8/31 18:54
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Does anyone know what routes the PATH will be running this weekend?

I need to go into midtown this sunday, and I just checked PATH's holiday schedule - which says it'll be running a "Saturday schedule". Does this mean no direct service to 34th? Everything goes to WTC?

However, I just found this from their Weekend outage pdf:

The free shuttle bus will run every weekend through December 19, 2016, except for Labor Day (Sept. 3-5), Veteran’s Day (Nov. 11-13), and Thanksgiving (Nov. 24-27).
During those three holiday weekends, PATH will run regular holiday weekend service on all lines, and there will be no shuttle bus.



So - what is the "regular holiday weekend service"???

Posted on: 2016/8/31 18:21
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I think it is important to note that the figure is closer to $400 million, not $4 billion. At least for the part of the station that people have an opinion of (the oculus)

A lot of what is required to support the entire site is folded into that $4bn number. the only way to not spend the money is to leave a hole in the ground.

4bn is the pop-culture number, not the actual number. 400mm isn't nothing, but its a lot less. 90% less, in fact.

Quote:

asny10011 wrote:
I like the minimalist look, but was underwhelmed that the whole edifice was 4billion. I guess the infrastructure and building around the working trains was a large part of the expense, but i was hoping for more interesting offerings besides run of the mill shops you can find in soho/ short hills or westchester mall. Nothing really stood out. And the Lacoste display in the middle of the belly looked pretty sad and sterile. And, if I'm not mistaken the only retail was on the 2 levels of the carcass and the passageway to WTC4?

Posted on: 2016/8/31 14:51
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JCGuys wrote:
Wishing for the success or failure of the mall is a moot point, because I believe it's going to fail anyway.


Westfield Place will not fail, regardless of how much you wish or believe that will happen. In addition to Wall Street and related financial firms in that area, Downtown Manhattan is slowly becoming a hub for the fashion industry, and that was confirmed and further spurred by the Conde Nast move into 1 WTC. That's the reason why Brookfield Place underwent such a drastic re-imagination, and that's the reason why Westfield Place attracted the retailers it did. You will continue to see an increase of well heeled tourists and locals flocking to Downtown Manhattan, and businesses catering to them will continue to crop up there.

Posted on: 2016/8/31 7:25
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The cheese counter in Eataly is no chopped liver, except the layout getting there was made by a retard high on bath salts.


#Holla

Posted on: 2016/8/30 16:21
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I like the minimalist look, but was underwhelmed that the whole edifice was 4billion. I guess the infrastructure and building around the working trains was a large part of the expense, but i was hoping for more interesting offerings besides run of the mill shops you can find in soho/ short hills or westchester mall. Nothing really stood out. And the Lacoste display in the middle of the belly looked pretty sad and sterile. And, if I'm not mistaken the only retail was on the 2 levels of the carcass and the passageway to WTC4?

Posted on: 2016/8/30 15:51
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JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

07310 wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:

No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.


If it fails as you hope it will the PA will spend another billion dollars of our money to try and fix it. That is the MO of big organizations, if something goes wrong you throw money at it until it is fixed.


Success or fail, PA will waste a billion either way trying to fixing the problem (and not succeed) or fixing something that isn't broken, breaking it in the process.


Maybe, but hoping it fails is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. It can only hurt riders.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 15:32
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07310 wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:

No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.


If it fails as you hope it will the PA will spend another billion dollars of our money to try and fix it. That is the MO of big organizations, if something goes wrong you throw money at it until it is fixed.


Success or fail, PA will waste a billion either way trying to fixing the problem (and not succeed) or fixing something that isn't broken, breaking it in the process.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 15:19
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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

nafco wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

nafco wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
I've spent plenty of time looking around at my fellow PATH riders, and that's why I'm not buying the theory that the PA wants us walking by those ritzy new shops. Most of us won't be stopping by to pick up a Bulgari watch on our way to Lincoln Center.

Right!? I walk through the Oculus every day to and from work, and have started to pay attention to the stores that are getting ready to open. I had hoped it would be something along the lines of Grand Central - higher end, yes, but accessible - O & Co., Papyrus. I'm really surprised to see the stores in the Oculus - Kate Spade, Gucci, Longines, etc. I agree - PA (or is it Westfield's decision) seems to have paid zero attention to the demographics of the PATH riders.

I'm curious what other people think - is this supposed to become a destination for the surrounding Wall Street crowd?


I hope it all flops and Westfield loses tons of money.


Why? Even if most 'common people' dont shop there, higher end retail means higher rents, and if they can make $1 billion of the $4 billion they spent back, they are at least on the way to charging retailers instead of commuters. Im sure they will squander that money but I would rather them get some income from someone who isnt the working class commuter or tax dollars to fund whatever it is they do.


It's not just rent! Most malls have intricate contracts with retailers that involve paying not just a monthly rent, but also a percentage of total sales. So, if this place is a runaway success, the PA could end up generating a ton of money not just in rents.

Also, the idea that this place will fail is silly, at best. Despite all the naysayers in here, this mall be a huge success. Downtown Manhattan now attracts a lot more tourists and even locals. More and more people are moving down there, and there will be tons of people coming to Westfield Place to shop.


I'm all for the Port Authority generating more money, but I would love to see the ROI on this $4 billion boondoggle. The facility has very poor ingress\egress and it leads to bottlenecks trying to exit. The PATH platforms are too narrow and crowded, It takes too long for passengers to clear while. This is where cash should have been spent making it column-free instead of the whale carcass.

A transit center with much better access for riders, more retail space, and office space could have been built for much less than $4 billion, but the PA wanted to waste $4 billion by partnering with an arsehold Spanish architect.


I do agree that the access point from the side street had a surprisingly small amount of stairs and escalators compared to the temporary structure that was built. Im hoping that I missed something and that there will be multiple entrances to split the load of this new station, because otherwise, yes, that was a huge oversight.


No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.


Except if the business side fails, it will just hurt PATH service in the long run.


That assumes revenue from the mall's lease will go to PATH and not diverted to PA's next pet project.


Can you assume a scenario where the mall's business fails and as a result, PATH service improves?


Longterm -- If the Westfield mall fails, maybe there will be more retail options catering to commuters rather than tourists to Lower Manhattan. It will also be a lesson for future mega developments not to pull this shit again. Then again, who am I kidding. PA will never learn it's lesson because the public is willing to accept mediocre, or less, instead of demanding a higher standard.

Wishing for the success or failure of the mall is a moot point, because I believe it's going to fail anyway. If I'm wrong, I'm sure the money will make it to China Construction America for the Skyway replacement or something.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 15:18
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JCGuys wrote:

No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.


If it fails as you hope it will the PA will spend another billion dollars of our money to try and fix it. That is the MO of big organizations, if something goes wrong you throw money at it until it is fixed.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 14:48
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Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

nafco wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

nafco wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
I've spent plenty of time looking around at my fellow PATH riders, and that's why I'm not buying the theory that the PA wants us walking by those ritzy new shops. Most of us won't be stopping by to pick up a Bulgari watch on our way to Lincoln Center.

Right!? I walk through the Oculus every day to and from work, and have started to pay attention to the stores that are getting ready to open. I had hoped it would be something along the lines of Grand Central - higher end, yes, but accessible - O & Co., Papyrus. I'm really surprised to see the stores in the Oculus - Kate Spade, Gucci, Longines, etc. I agree - PA (or is it Westfield's decision) seems to have paid zero attention to the demographics of the PATH riders.

I'm curious what other people think - is this supposed to become a destination for the surrounding Wall Street crowd?


I hope it all flops and Westfield loses tons of money.


Why? Even if most 'common people' dont shop there, higher end retail means higher rents, and if they can make $1 billion of the $4 billion they spent back, they are at least on the way to charging retailers instead of commuters. Im sure they will squander that money but I would rather them get some income from someone who isnt the working class commuter or tax dollars to fund whatever it is they do.


It's not just rent! Most malls have intricate contracts with retailers that involve paying not just a monthly rent, but also a percentage of total sales. So, if this place is a runaway success, the PA could end up generating a ton of money not just in rents.

Also, the idea that this place will fail is silly, at best. Despite all the naysayers in here, this mall be a huge success. Downtown Manhattan now attracts a lot more tourists and even locals. More and more people are moving down there, and there will be tons of people coming to Westfield Place to shop.


I'm all for the Port Authority generating more money, but I would love to see the ROI on this $4 billion boondoggle. The facility has very poor ingress\egress and it leads to bottlenecks trying to exit. The PATH platforms are too narrow and crowded, It takes too long for passengers to clear while. This is where cash should have been spent making it column-free instead of the whale carcass.

A transit center with much better access for riders, more retail space, and office space could have been built for much less than $4 billion, but the PA wanted to waste $4 billion by partnering with an arsehold Spanish architect.


I do agree that the access point from the side street had a surprisingly small amount of stairs and escalators compared to the temporary structure that was built. Im hoping that I missed something and that there will be multiple entrances to split the load of this new station, because otherwise, yes, that was a huge oversight.


No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.


Except if the business side fails, it will just hurt PATH service in the long run.


That assumes revenue from the mall's lease will go to PATH and not diverted to PA's next pet project.


Can you assume a scenario where the mall's business fails and as a result, PATH service improves?

Posted on: 2016/8/30 14:44
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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

nafco wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

nafco wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
I've spent plenty of time looking around at my fellow PATH riders, and that's why I'm not buying the theory that the PA wants us walking by those ritzy new shops. Most of us won't be stopping by to pick up a Bulgari watch on our way to Lincoln Center.

Right!? I walk through the Oculus every day to and from work, and have started to pay attention to the stores that are getting ready to open. I had hoped it would be something along the lines of Grand Central - higher end, yes, but accessible - O & Co., Papyrus. I'm really surprised to see the stores in the Oculus - Kate Spade, Gucci, Longines, etc. I agree - PA (or is it Westfield's decision) seems to have paid zero attention to the demographics of the PATH riders.

I'm curious what other people think - is this supposed to become a destination for the surrounding Wall Street crowd?


I hope it all flops and Westfield loses tons of money.


Why? Even if most 'common people' dont shop there, higher end retail means higher rents, and if they can make $1 billion of the $4 billion they spent back, they are at least on the way to charging retailers instead of commuters. Im sure they will squander that money but I would rather them get some income from someone who isnt the working class commuter or tax dollars to fund whatever it is they do.


It's not just rent! Most malls have intricate contracts with retailers that involve paying not just a monthly rent, but also a percentage of total sales. So, if this place is a runaway success, the PA could end up generating a ton of money not just in rents.

Also, the idea that this place will fail is silly, at best. Despite all the naysayers in here, this mall be a huge success. Downtown Manhattan now attracts a lot more tourists and even locals. More and more people are moving down there, and there will be tons of people coming to Westfield Place to shop.


I'm all for the Port Authority generating more money, but I would love to see the ROI on this $4 billion boondoggle. The facility has very poor ingress\egress and it leads to bottlenecks trying to exit. The PATH platforms are too narrow and crowded, It takes too long for passengers to clear while. This is where cash should have been spent making it column-free instead of the whale carcass.

A transit center with much better access for riders, more retail space, and office space could have been built for much less than $4 billion, but the PA wanted to waste $4 billion by partnering with an arsehold Spanish architect.


I do agree that the access point from the side street had a surprisingly small amount of stairs and escalators compared to the temporary structure that was built. Im hoping that I missed something and that there will be multiple entrances to split the load of this new station, because otherwise, yes, that was a huge oversight.


No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.


Except if the business side fails, it will just hurt PATH service in the long run.


That assumes revenue from the mall's lease will go to PATH and not diverted to PA's next pet project.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 14:26
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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JCishome wrote:
I've spent plenty of time looking around at my fellow PATH riders, and that's why I'm not buying the theory that the PA wants us walking by those ritzy new shops. Most of us won't be stopping by to pick up a Bulgari watch on our way to Lincoln Center.

Right!? I walk through the Oculus every day to and from work, and have started to pay attention to the stores that are getting ready to open. I had hoped it would be something along the lines of Grand Central - higher end, yes, but accessible - O & Co., Papyrus. I'm really surprised to see the stores in the Oculus - Kate Spade, Gucci, Longines, etc. I agree - PA (or is it Westfield's decision) seems to have paid zero attention to the demographics of the PATH riders.

I'm curious what other people think - is this supposed to become a destination for the surrounding Wall Street crowd?


I hope it all flops and Westfield loses tons of money.


Why? Even if most 'common people' dont shop there, higher end retail means higher rents, and if they can make $1 billion of the $4 billion they spent back, they are at least on the way to charging retailers instead of commuters. Im sure they will squander that money but I would rather them get some income from someone who isnt the working class commuter or tax dollars to fund whatever it is they do.


It's not just rent! Most malls have intricate contracts with retailers that involve paying not just a monthly rent, but also a percentage of total sales. So, if this place is a runaway success, the PA could end up generating a ton of money not just in rents.

Also, the idea that this place will fail is silly, at best. Despite all the naysayers in here, this mall be a huge success. Downtown Manhattan now attracts a lot more tourists and even locals. More and more people are moving down there, and there will be tons of people coming to Westfield Place to shop.


I'm all for the Port Authority generating more money, but I would love to see the ROI on this $4 billion boondoggle. The facility has very poor ingress\egress and it leads to bottlenecks trying to exit. The PATH platforms are too narrow and crowded, It takes too long for passengers to clear while. This is where cash should have been spent making it column-free instead of the whale carcass.

A transit center with much better access for riders, more retail space, and office space could have been built for much less than $4 billion, but the PA wanted to waste $4 billion by partnering with an arsehold Spanish architect.


I do agree that the access point from the side street had a surprisingly small amount of stairs and escalators compared to the temporary structure that was built. Im hoping that I missed something and that there will be multiple entrances to split the load of this new station, because otherwise, yes, that was a huge oversight.


No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.


Except if the business side fails, it will just hurt PATH service in the long run.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 14:23
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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nafco wrote:
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JCishome wrote:
I've spent plenty of time looking around at my fellow PATH riders, and that's why I'm not buying the theory that the PA wants us walking by those ritzy new shops. Most of us won't be stopping by to pick up a Bulgari watch on our way to Lincoln Center.

Right!? I walk through the Oculus every day to and from work, and have started to pay attention to the stores that are getting ready to open. I had hoped it would be something along the lines of Grand Central - higher end, yes, but accessible - O & Co., Papyrus. I'm really surprised to see the stores in the Oculus - Kate Spade, Gucci, Longines, etc. I agree - PA (or is it Westfield's decision) seems to have paid zero attention to the demographics of the PATH riders.

I'm curious what other people think - is this supposed to become a destination for the surrounding Wall Street crowd?


I hope it all flops and Westfield loses tons of money.


Why? Even if most 'common people' dont shop there, higher end retail means higher rents, and if they can make $1 billion of the $4 billion they spent back, they are at least on the way to charging retailers instead of commuters. Im sure they will squander that money but I would rather them get some income from someone who isnt the working class commuter or tax dollars to fund whatever it is they do.


It's not just rent! Most malls have intricate contracts with retailers that involve paying not just a monthly rent, but also a percentage of total sales. So, if this place is a runaway success, the PA could end up generating a ton of money not just in rents.

Also, the idea that this place will fail is silly, at best. Despite all the naysayers in here, this mall be a huge success. Downtown Manhattan now attracts a lot more tourists and even locals. More and more people are moving down there, and there will be tons of people coming to Westfield Place to shop.


I'm all for the Port Authority generating more money, but I would love to see the ROI on this $4 billion boondoggle. The facility has very poor ingress\egress and it leads to bottlenecks trying to exit. The PATH platforms are too narrow and crowded, It takes too long for passengers to clear while. This is where cash should have been spent making it column-free instead of the whale carcass.

A transit center with much better access for riders, more retail space, and office space could have been built for much less than $4 billion, but the PA wanted to waste $4 billion by partnering with an arsehold Spanish architect.


I do agree that the access point from the side street had a surprisingly small amount of stairs and escalators compared to the temporary structure that was built. Im hoping that I missed something and that there will be multiple entrances to split the load of this new station, because otherwise, yes, that was a huge oversight.


No oversight. It was intentional. The only reason I can think of is to force people to pass as many retail outlets as possible in that stupid mall. It's obvious that the carcass' role as a transportation hub was an afterthought to the mall. This is why I hope it fails.

There are ways to integrate retail into a busy rail station so that it compliments the commute. (Grand Central, Fulton Street come to mine). The PA just fails at everything they touch. Next up will be a fiasco regarding the PABT.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 13:47
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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JCishome wrote:
I've spent plenty of time looking around at my fellow PATH riders, and that's why I'm not buying the theory that the PA wants us walking by those ritzy new shops. Most of us won't be stopping by to pick up a Bulgari watch on our way to Lincoln Center.

Right!? I walk through the Oculus every day to and from work, and have started to pay attention to the stores that are getting ready to open. I had hoped it would be something along the lines of Grand Central - higher end, yes, but accessible - O & Co., Papyrus. I'm really surprised to see the stores in the Oculus - Kate Spade, Gucci, Longines, etc. I agree - PA (or is it Westfield's decision) seems to have paid zero attention to the demographics of the PATH riders.

I'm curious what other people think - is this supposed to become a destination for the surrounding Wall Street crowd?


I hope it all flops and Westfield loses tons of money.


Why? Even if most 'common people' dont shop there, higher end retail means higher rents, and if they can make $1 billion of the $4 billion they spent back, they are at least on the way to charging retailers instead of commuters. Im sure they will squander that money but I would rather them get some income from someone who isnt the working class commuter or tax dollars to fund whatever it is they do.


It's not just rent! Most malls have intricate contracts with retailers that involve paying not just a monthly rent, but also a percentage of total sales. So, if this place is a runaway success, the PA could end up generating a ton of money not just in rents.

Also, the idea that this place will fail is silly, at best. Despite all the naysayers in here, this mall be a huge success. Downtown Manhattan now attracts a lot more tourists and even locals. More and more people are moving down there, and there will be tons of people coming to Westfield Place to shop.


I'm all for the Port Authority generating more money, but I would love to see the ROI on this $4 billion boondoggle. The facility has very poor ingress\egress and it leads to bottlenecks trying to exit. The PATH platforms are too narrow and crowded, It takes too long for passengers to clear while. This is where cash should have been spent making it column-free instead of the whale carcass.

A transit center with much better access for riders, more retail space, and office space could have been built for much less than $4 billion, but the PA wanted to waste $4 billion by partnering with an arsehold Spanish architect.


I do agree that the access point from the side street had a surprisingly small amount of stairs and escalators compared to the temporary structure that was built. Im hoping that I missed something and that there will be multiple entrances to split the load of this new station, because otherwise, yes, that was a huge oversight.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 12:34
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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nafco wrote:
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JCishome wrote:
I've spent plenty of time looking around at my fellow PATH riders, and that's why I'm not buying the theory that the PA wants us walking by those ritzy new shops. Most of us won't be stopping by to pick up a Bulgari watch on our way to Lincoln Center.

Right!? I walk through the Oculus every day to and from work, and have started to pay attention to the stores that are getting ready to open. I had hoped it would be something along the lines of Grand Central - higher end, yes, but accessible - O & Co., Papyrus. I'm really surprised to see the stores in the Oculus - Kate Spade, Gucci, Longines, etc. I agree - PA (or is it Westfield's decision) seems to have paid zero attention to the demographics of the PATH riders.

I'm curious what other people think - is this supposed to become a destination for the surrounding Wall Street crowd?


I hope it all flops and Westfield loses tons of money.


Why? Even if most 'common people' dont shop there, higher end retail means higher rents, and if they can make $1 billion of the $4 billion they spent back, they are at least on the way to charging retailers instead of commuters. Im sure they will squander that money but I would rather them get some income from someone who isnt the working class commuter or tax dollars to fund whatever it is they do.


It's not just rent! Most malls have intricate contracts with retailers that involve paying not just a monthly rent, but also a percentage of total sales. So, if this place is a runaway success, the PA could end up generating a ton of money not just in rents.

Also, the idea that this place will fail is silly, at best. Despite all the naysayers in here, this mall be a huge success. Downtown Manhattan now attracts a lot more tourists and even locals. More and more people are moving down there, and there will be tons of people coming to Westfield Place to shop.


I'm all for the Port Authority generating more money, but I would love to see the ROI on this $4 billion boondoggle. The facility has very poor ingress\egress and it leads to bottlenecks trying to exit. The PATH platforms are too narrow and crowded, It takes too long for passengers to clear while. This is where cash should have been spent making it column-free instead of the whale carcass.

A transit center with much better access for riders, more retail space, and office space could have been built for much less than $4 billion, but the PA wanted to waste $4 billion by partnering with an arsehold Spanish architect.

Posted on: 2016/8/30 11:21
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Please use basic manners in the stations. Nobody is excited to be there so decency is appreciated.

This man sat on the stairs during rush hour, when commuters were four abreast on the stairs. I nicely asked him to let me pass and was immediately told no and called a B. I mean really, a little decency would go a long way.

https://postimg.org/image/hwc3x3lz5/

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"Oops, did I bump into you? Sometimes I'm so darn clumsy!"


"sorry my enormous bag just clocked you in the head"

I will, undoubtedly, get murdered on the PATH one day.

Posted on: 2016/8/24 11:03
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