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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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And what does this prove other than they left out the likely winning category "independently owned restaurant"?

That said, give the people what they want, I doubt this is defensible in court anyway. My mind is blown that Dominos or other crappy chain pizza can be here in an area crawling with pizza joints. I've got 5 within 3 or 4 blocks. But it's what people want...

Quote:

neverleft wrote:
(too funny?.Hey Steve no wonder there are so many lonely people in DTJC no place to take a first date under your plan. )

The most common first-date locations are all chain restaurants

Your first date will probably be at a Starbucks
By Marisa Kabas

Mobile dating app Clover launched an on-demand dating service back in November and it recently crunched the numbers to see where people are meeting up for first dates. The answer, overwhelmingly, was Starbucks.
Instead of swapping stories about college and childhood over pitchers of beer, pairs preferred to meet over caramel macchiatos, according to data from an estimated 200,000 users.

Continued?

http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/sta ... s-first-date-infographic/

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Posted on: 2015/4/9 0:46
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I voted for the guy but I think this is stupid. This shouldn't get to be a government decision, spend your energy on something more important.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 0:33
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Grove St could use a Chipotle or something equivalent big-time

Posted on: 2015/4/8 22:58
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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(too funny?.Hey Steve no wonder there are so many lonely people in DTJC no place to take a first date under your plan. )

The most common first-date locations are all chain restaurants

Your first date will probably be at a Starbucks
By Marisa Kabas

Mobile dating app Clover launched an on-demand dating service back in November and it recently crunched the numbers to see where people are meeting up for first dates. The answer, overwhelmingly, was Starbucks.
Instead of swapping stories about college and childhood over pitchers of beer, pairs preferred to meet over caramel macchiatos, according to data from an estimated 200,000 users.

Continued?

http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/sta ... s-first-date-infographic/

Resized Image


Posted on: 2015/4/8 22:07
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Quote:

EthanCrane wrote:
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do that many people really want chain stores?

When I moved to NYC in the early 90s, it was full of independent shops. Now, every block has a bank and a massive drug store.

As JC gentrifies, Fulop wants it to keep its own special feel. Fulop's proposal is good for downtown and pro-small business.


Believe it.

It's not a question of what anyone in Jersey City wants, it's a matter of the government trying interfere with the free market when the free market, in this particular area, works just fine (for the prison system and education, not so much, government can and should interfere with that all it wants).

If people don't want chain stores they won't shop at them. If they want independent stores, they better patronize them heavily. If the current plan goes as its proposed, Jersey City may be viewed as entirely anti-business and there will be NO stores, at least in some neighborhoods. Do you want to have to drive out of your neighborhood for everything?

Sure, the independent stores have more character and most people like the small town, mom-and-pop feel over the big, dull and impersonal chain stores or restaurants. I'm not always a fan of the chain stores either. But at the end of the day, government shouldn't dictate what stores are good for us and what stores aren't. There are plenty of non-chain stores and restaurant in Jersey City now. Spend your money at them and more will come. Do what you can to avoid spending money at the chain stores if this is so important to you. Vote with your pocketbook. But don't use the city government to force your philosophy/desires on me or anyone else.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 21:58
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
Quote:

EthanCrane wrote:
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do that many people really want chain stores?

When I moved to NYC in the early 90s, it was full of independent shops. Now, every block has a bank and a massive drug store.

As JC gentrifies, Fulop wants it to keep its own special feel. Fulop's proposal is good for downtown and pro-small business.


where do you live? cause it's not dtjc. Right now, that special feel is the "99 cent value bargain feel" as there are at least 4 stores with the words cheap, dollar, bargain, and value in them within a 5 block radius. We could use a lot more chain stores.

In fact, how about we propose that we can only have 1 value/99 cent store within a half a mile of each other. If we want government overreach, let's at least overreach in the right direction...


name them. If I'm guessing correctly, I can think of three but really, one is a neighborhood department store that just doesn't live up to your standards.


edit: eh, for some reason I thought you said five. whatever, I wont call you a liar. I just disagree.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 21:53
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Quote:

EthanCrane wrote:
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do that many people really want chain stores?

When I moved to NYC in the early 90s, it was full of independent shops. Now, every block has a bank and a massive drug store.

As JC gentrifies, Fulop wants it to keep its own special feel. Fulop's proposal is good for downtown and pro-small business.


The issue is nowhere near as simple as those who "really want chain stores" vs those who don't. Speaking for myself, I barely ever eat at chain restaurants in DTJC. However, I love having the Duane Reade right at the Grove St path station and think it is a huge boost to the area. Additionally, as others have said, many might welcome a "trendy" chain such as an Apple Store opening.

So right off the bat we have chain stores in different industries along with varying quality of chains in a particular industry, with opinions sure to vary across the spectrum. Not some binary calculation of chains = good or bad.

Second, my real objection is the massive government overreach, as I don't think it is the government's role to dictate to landlords which type of businesses they can rent to, nor tell certain types of accepted businesses they are not welcome in JC. ESPECIALLY because the proposed limitation of 30% appears to be pulled from a hat.

If this is something people want I think it should be placed on a voting ballot. That way we see if the proposal is even somewhat speaking for the people. But even then, do the people have the right to instantly deprive a landlord of significant value? Maybe not, but at least then this process would feel more legitimate.

Finally, I have a sense of, if it ain't broke don't fix it. While it is certainly not perfect, I generally like the way DTJC's commercial scene (especially the restaurant scene) has been developing. I don't think the government should be tinkering with this.

With all this said, as I mentioned I don't really eat in chain restaurants so at the end of the day I am not hugely concerned about the outcome. I care far more about the City lifting the defacto ban on food trucks in DTJC. I just don't like the precedent Fulop is trying to set here.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 21:50

Edited by JCMan8 on 2015/4/8 22:05:49
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Are you all really seriously concerned about this coming to pass?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfdEFAbwhpQ

Posted on: 2015/4/8 21:44
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Quote:

EthanCrane wrote:
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do that many people really want chain stores?

When I moved to NYC in the early 90s, it was full of independent shops. Now, every block has a bank and a massive drug store.

As JC gentrifies, Fulop wants it to keep its own special feel. Fulop's proposal is good for downtown and pro-small business.


where do you live? cause it's not dtjc. Right now, that special feel is the "99 cent value bargain feel" as there are at least 4 stores with the words cheap, dollar, bargain, and value in them within a 5 block radius. We could use a lot more chain stores.

In fact, how about we propose that we can only have 1 value/99 cent store within a half a mile of each other. If we want government overreach, let's at least overreach in the right direction...

Posted on: 2015/4/8 21:23
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do that many people really want chain stores?

When I moved to NYC in the early 90s, it was full of independent shops. Now, every block has a bank and a massive drug store.

As JC gentrifies, Fulop wants it to keep its own special feel. Fulop's proposal is good for downtown and pro-small business.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 21:00
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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It's just so ironic.

It's not like these mom and pop stores' number one priority is to better the neighborhood. Their number one priority is to make money. If it was any different, then they wouldn't charge some of the prices they do for their food. Take Cocoa Bakery for example - they offer expensive baked goods at similar pricing as Starbucks and many times, they don't have a full inventory...

These mom and pop stores charging the prices they do in fact cause more displacement of the middle class which isn't what you anti-free market people are against?


Posted on: 2015/4/8 20:46
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Guess there goes my dream Chipotle Mexican Grill replacing Shah taj. Yes, I know Taqueria is there, it's got great food, However I can only take so much of the the cramped space, the attitude, the low ceilings, the loud music and 80s vibe.

This is anti free market as Vindication said. Chain stores / restaurants because of their scale are able to source their inputs at a much lower price, demand better quality and have sophisticated logistics system in place reduce their procurement and shipping costs. They pass enough of it along, to make a difference for consumers like me.

I don't want pay extra for grocery or a restaurant because Mr Mom and Mrs Pop wasn't able get the best lease rate, or the best price price because they were only buying half a truck load.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 19:34
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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The free market system seems to be working fine in Hoboken, there a nice mix of small and big names up and down Washington Street. Steve, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 19:27
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Let me first say, this is anti-free market at its finest. Even though I consider myself progressive, this is beyond stupid. I am disappointed in mayor fulop for suggesting this.

Secondly, so many jealous individuals on jclist. "overpriced, bland, chain, etc." when you are really jealous that other people have more money than you to live in dtjc.

How about if you don't like dtjc, don't live in the area. It's not like you have a choice anyway because you are too poor anyways. Sorry, I meant dtjc is overpriced lol

Haters going to hate.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 18:12
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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oh great, Tony 2 Boots is interested in this issue. There goes what the people want, bring in what the business wants. I cannot wait for the pending mobilization against Two Boots and their buddy Bistro Jeff- we will post info here once we are fully mobilized.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 17:57
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Quote:

Cleo wrote:
Sorry, but mom n' pop died in downtown JC the day the 1st street Art House was leveled and Yaga the Polish lady took down her shingle and stopped selling pierogies on Grove Street. If by mom n' pop you are referring to $10 latte coffee shops and sports bars with 21 TVs, then I'm definitely missing something.


You're missing that most of the reail on Grove and Newark Avenue retail are not chain estabilishments. Many of the owners of this retail are JC residents. With all that said, we both still arrive to the same concusion, that this ordinance is not needed.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 17:54
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Yes to both of your questions Jersey Mom.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 17:23
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I don't get the over-arching concept. So massive over-priced residential high rise developments stacked one next to another are fine for a "mom n' pop" neighborhood, but big box retail is bad? Sorry, but mom n' pop died in downtown JC the day the 1st street Art House was leveled and Yaga the Polish lady took down her shingle and stopped selling pierogies on Grove Street. If by mom n' pop you are referring to $10 latte coffee shops and sports bars with 21 TVs, then I'm definitely missing something. Let's face it, downtown is now overdeveloped with as much mom n' pop charm as a Big Mac and most community events are sponsored by developers to further their agenda. What happens to family shops when the families who own them can no longer afford to live in the vicinity of the stores they own as is often the case? Mr. Mayor, stop the PR and let's face the fact that big box residential comes first and big box retail inevitably follows (Newport is a perfect example). Mom n' pop neighborhoods are self-evolving in small communities, not engineered by developers and politicians.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 17:23
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Imagine if you were one of those landlords right now holding on to a potential, non-executed lease from an interested chain? Now landlords in these areas are "forced" to deal with a certain kind of tenant only?

And doesn't this stifle a business owner's ability to eventually franchise if they choose? If they went over the location allocation, they'd have to close their store in the JC "no chain" block, correct?

Posted on: 2015/4/8 17:12
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Is this all for the Heights and Greenville?

Take a listen

Posted on: 2015/4/8 17:11
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Mayor Steve Fulop's plan to limit chain stores in the Downtown cleared its first major hurdle last night, with the Planning Board approving the restrictions nearly unanimously.

Jersey City plan to limit chain stores clears hurdle

Posted on: 2015/4/8 16:58
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Is it scheduled for Council yet?

Posted on: 2015/4/8 16:00
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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What happens when a chain wants to buy out a mom & pop. It can't be legal to stop that transaction.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 15:54
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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So this is another bizarre part of the plan. Certain blocks on Newark and Grove are affected, while others are not. At the hearing last night, Jeff Wenger could offer no good reason for the differing treatments from block to block. It's absolutely arbitrary and appears to be the result of a compromise. Fulop, apparently, wanted to go much further and Planning tried to hold him back. Fulop has already said that he is planning on extending the ban to more blocks. The arbitrary nature of the designations, I believe, makes it more vulnerable to legal challenge by a motivated landlord.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 15:38
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

TwoBootsJC wrote:

1. This is a solution in search of a problem.


That was exactly my first reaction to this proposal. I can not, for the life of me, understand the impetus behind the idea and proposal. We are NOT drowning in chains stores in DTJC. In fact, what we have is a dearth of options downtown. Lots of empty storefronts and spaces available for something (anything!) to move in and help move DTJC forward.

In the Newark avenue area of businesses, I can think of 4 or 5 "chains": Domino's, Starbucks, McD and DD. None of them are sexy, but no one can deny they are not being patronized by locals. Every time I walk past any of them, they are very, very busy. I guess Two Boots and Bon Chon may have fallen under the description of chain, as well, but both seem to be fairly well patronized.

Honestly, talk about empty actions chasing headlines. To take JC to the next level, concentrate on the real issues: QoL crimes, ever present trash (why can't we have trashcans on every corner!?), open drug dealing, and more transparent, fair and not-corrupt government.


Exactly. There are about 1,000 items that should have higher priority. And I'm surprised to see that one mere day after making this public, it's already up for a final vote on the Council. Talk about a ram job.

If Two Boots is correct that this ordinance will effectively ban chains downtown, I would expect to see litigation coming from the affected landlords, who obviously have a lot at stake, and possibly from the chains thinking about moving here.

Aside from the MANY problems with this proposal, this is what we will spend taxpayer money on? Defending some pet project of the Mayor's that he is unilaterally ramming through SOLELY to boost his campaign for governor?

Posted on: 2015/4/8 15:22
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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TwoBootsJC - I couldn't have said it better myself. You hit the mail right on the head. There are so many things wrong with this ordinance I wouldn't know where to begin. But you encapsulate just about all the problems perfectly in your post.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 15:14
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Quote:

TwoBootsJC wrote:

1. This is a solution in search of a problem.


That was exactly my first reaction to this proposal. I can not, for the life of me, understand the impetus behind the idea and proposal. We are NOT drowning in chains stores in DTJC. In fact, what we have is a dearth of options downtown. Lots of empty storefronts and spaces available for something (anything!) to move in and help move DTJC forward.

In the Newark avenue area of businesses, I can think of 4 or 5 "chains": Domino's, Starbucks, McD and DD. None of them are sexy, but no one can deny they are not being patronized by locals. Every time I walk past any of them, they are very, very busy. I guess Two Boots and Bon Chon may have fallen under the description of chain, as well, but both seem to be fairly well patronized.

Honestly, talk about empty actions chasing headlines. To take JC to the next level, concentrate on the real issues: QoL crimes, ever present trash (why can't we have trashcans on every corner!?), open drug dealing, and more transparent, fair and not-corrupt government.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 15:00
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Fulop's proposal seems really strange. At this point, does ANYONE feel as though downtown is being overwhelmed by chains? That would be news to me. I think the prevailing view is that, thus far, all of the new retail development has been positive.

Also, what happens when there is another economic bust? Does the city really want to be turning away new a business because it's a "chain" when others are not jumping to fill the same space?

Posted on: 2015/4/8 15:00
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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UGH, from nj.com

JERSEY CITY -- Mayor Steve Fulop's plan to limit chain stores in the Downtown cleared its first major hurdle last night, with the Planning Board approving the restrictions nearly unanimously.

The new rules, which now move to the City Council for final approval, would limit chain stores from renting large ground-floor retails space in many Downtown locations. A large swath of the Waterfront, including Newport, would be exempt, as would grocery stores.

Jersey City would follow in the footsteps of other liberal cities like San Francisco and Nantucket, which put restrictions on where chain stores could open about a decade ago.

Fulop has called the new rules an effort to retain the character of Downtown neighborhoods, and he said he intends to widen the restrictions across Jersey City in the future.

Business groups have stated their disapproval, calling the proposed restrictions an example of government overreach.

The Planning Board vote was 7 to 1, with Michael Sims voting against.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 14:53
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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As I write this, Mayor Fulop is being interviewed in the Brian Lehrer Show (NPR - WNYC - 93.9 FM) about this initiative. It followed a segment about Rand Paul that discussed, among other things, the pros and cons of libertarianism, and which helped framed a part of the conversation.

Something I missed in the back and forth of this conversation is that the restrictions on chain stores is limited to DTJC. The Heights and JSQ would not be affected by this initiative. Not sure what to make of this: is DT being favored in the sense that "small community feeling" is being protected and fostered in DTJC and not elsewhere? Or, is it that those other areas are not being limited in what development they can attract? Is that itself an odd attempt to continue to spur development in those areas by placing restrictions on what can happen elsewhere?

Posted on: 2015/4/8 14:51
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