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Re: "Empty Sky" - NJ State 9/11 Memorial in Liberty State Park
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The original design called for the stainless steel cladding to be on the outside of the walls as well but for some bizarre reason (Cost 15M) the money trough ran dry. Instead we got "architecturally finished concrete."

The lead designer, Jessica Jamroz of Frederic Schwartz Architects failed to recognize the Southern views from places like Paulus Hook would be forever altered. One used to watch sail boats sail around the tip of the LSP but not any more.

It's a hulking monstrosity from just about any vantage point other than looking straight at it from the entrance.

Public Space Design needs to consider more factors than just the project at hand and the foot print it comprises.

Resized Image

Posted on: 2013/5/28 19:39

Edited by 81905 on 2013/5/28 19:54:28
Edited by 81905 on 2013/5/28 19:57:26
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Re: "Empty Sky" - NJ State 9/11 Memorial in Liberty State Park
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Yeah, so many people on this board complain about it, and I just don't get it. I like it. Every one of the (dozens) of people and families we've had come and visit over the past year have gone there and been impressed.

As for blocking the view? Whatever. The park is huge. Move twenty yards to the left, your view is fine.

Posted on: 2013/5/28 18:58
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Re: "Empty Sky" - NJ State 9/11 Memorial in Liberty State Park
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This is an old story... it symbolizes that they ran out of money to finish the project so they cut corners to make the 10th Anniversary date... it looks like crap and will never be finished.

Posted on: 2013/5/28 18:57
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Re: "Empty Sky" - NJ State 9/11 Memorial in Liberty State Park
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i like that aspect of the memorial. symbolizes the rebuilding...of the site and the lives.

Posted on: 2013/5/28 18:47
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Is the 9/11 Memorial at LSP Finished?
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Sorry if this has been addressed in an earlier thread. I know that the 9/11 Memorial "Walls" erected in Liberty State Park were pretty controversial when they went up because the memorial is, frankly, less than aesthetically pleasing to many. But does anyone know if the way it looks now is actually the finished product? I'm asking because it looks completely unfinished to me.

While the inside of the memorial has a very nice glossy coating with inscriptions of the names of the victims, the outside of the memorial (the most visible part) is just raw concrete slabs with holes all over them and some parts with actual metal pegs hanging out. It has looked this way for over a year. Perhaps they stopped part-way through the job because of hurricane Sandy? I can't imagine this is what the finished product looks like, is it?

Anyone have an update as to when it will be finished?

Posted on: 2013/5/28 0:19
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Quote:

jmiz wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

jmiz wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Sometimes you have experimental artistic memorials and end up with the iconic Vietnam Memorial in Washington. Other times you end up with the pile of concrete in Liberty State Park. Win some, lose some.


Funny you should compare the two. Originally deemed an ugly black scar on the otherwise pristine white marble and granite memorial row in D.C., the Vietnam Memorial "grew" on the public, much like the temporary Eiffel Tower in Paris.

So you've basically proven your counter-claim's argument.


I was not ignorant to the Vietnam Memorial's critical history. As to the monument in Liberty State Park, the Vietnam Memorial it is not.



So you're aware of the Vietnam Memorial's transformative history yet you fail to acknowledge that the 9/11 Memorial may follow the same path.


Yeah....not gonna happen.

Posted on: 2012/1/5 21:47
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

jmiz wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Sometimes you have experimental artistic memorials and end up with the iconic Vietnam Memorial in Washington. Other times you end up with the pile of concrete in Liberty State Park. Win some, lose some.


Funny you should compare the two. Originally deemed an ugly black scar on the otherwise pristine white marble and granite memorial row in D.C., the Vietnam Memorial "grew" on the public, much like the temporary Eiffel Tower in Paris.

So you've basically proven your counter-claim's argument.


I was not ignorant to the Vietnam Memorial's critical history. As to the monument in Liberty State Park, the Vietnam Memorial it is not.



So you're aware of the Vietnam Memorial's transformative history yet you fail to acknowledge that the 9/11 Memorial may follow the same path.

Seems like you may be a bit more ignorant about the subject after all.

Posted on: 2012/1/4 1:29
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Resized Image

At least it doesn't look like this anymore. This was what is now Liberty State Park in 1974. JCLister MDM posted a link to a gallery that has a pretty amazing collection of old JC pics. Definitely worth looking at if you have a minute.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wavz13/s ... 79761251/with/4159627241/

Posted on: 2012/1/3 22:27
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Bogart wrote:
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JerseyCityFrankie wrote:
The designers decided the project needed to be carved through a hill so they built the project on flat ground and manufactured a fake hill to put it through!


How dare they alter our fake flat land with a fake hill!


Isn't that part of Liberty State park all fill? Which would kind of make it fake land too.

Posted on: 2012/1/3 21:29
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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JerseyCityFrankie wrote:
The designers decided the project needed to be carved through a hill so they built the project on flat ground and manufactured a fake hill to put it through!


How dare they alter our fake flat land with a fake hill!

Posted on: 2012/1/3 21:19
I live by the river.
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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That interest generated by the donated public monies over all these years must be huge - Do we have an account for those extra funds or has someone pocketed the interest ?

Posted on: 2012/1/3 9:17
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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jmiz wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
Sometimes you have experimental artistic memorials and end up with the iconic Vietnam Memorial in Washington. Other times you end up with the pile of concrete in Liberty State Park. Win some, lose some.


Funny you should compare the two. Originally deemed an ugly black scar on the otherwise pristine white marble and granite memorial row in D.C., the Vietnam Memorial "grew" on the public, much like the temporary Eiffel Tower in Paris.

So you've basically proven your counter-claim's argument.


I was not ignorant to the Vietnam Memorial's critical history. As to the monument in Liberty State Park, the Vietnam Memorial it is not.

Posted on: 2012/1/3 5:48
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Sometimes you have experimental artistic memorials and end up with the iconic Vietnam Memorial in Washington. Other times you end up with the pile of concrete in Liberty State Park. Win some, lose some.


Funny you should compare the two. Originally deemed an ugly black scar on the otherwise pristine white marble and granite memorial row in D.C., the Vietnam Memorial "grew" on the public, much like the temporary Eiffel Tower in Paris.

So you've basically proven your counter-claim's argument.

Posted on: 2012/1/3 4:19
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I've been reading all the complaints on this board about the LSP 9/11 Memorial. I finally had the chance to go over and view it a few weekends ago and I have to say to you folks complaining, You are so wrong. It is tastefully done, it's not to big for the sight, its size is commensurate with the occasion it is memorializing and I found it very moving.

Rant Mode ON
What I sense here is the same type of opinions that are pervading the rest of society now, if it's not up to a person's ideal it must be awful. Do you people have nothing better to do than whine about something that wasn't designed to your specifications? Why do I have a feeling that anything put there would piss most of you off. Grow up already. If the memorial is blocking your view, dammit, move a little to the left or right, there is plenty of space to move, and you'll see what you want. If you don't like the look of the memorial, go find something you do like.
Rant Mode OFF

For those who haven't seen it, here are some pictures I took during my visit. The LSP Memorial pics are about a third of the way down the page
Images of Memorial and other images.

Posted on: 2012/1/2 22:32
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Sometimes you have experimental artistic memorials and end up with the iconic Vietnam Memorial in Washington. Other times you end up with the pile of concrete in Liberty State Park. Win some, lose some.

Posted on: 2012/1/2 21:12
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Sorry, I still disagree. I think are still plenty of places to get that great view. I wish they hadn't left the outside as exposed cement, that looks ghetto, but I think the memorial is appropriate and relevant.

Posted on: 2012/1/2 19:36
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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The wall is considered to block the view because it is thirty feet tall and at least a hundred feet wide. You can't have something like that and not have it block views. Particularly if you are foolish enough to build it mere yards from the waters edge and adjacent to one of the few corners in this huge wide open park. you could argue that they COULD NOT HAVE CHOSEN A WORSE SPOT if they were trying to avoid blocking views. I'm not arguing that a person will be unable to see the views the park has to offer, I am saying the decision to site the cement wall where they did was a huge mistake and that it does destroy one of the best views in the entire park.

Posted on: 2012/1/2 19:10
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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No, this guy completely understands all of that. But considering the title of this thread is "Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!" I couldn't help but feel that the idea that it ruined anyone's view of the Manhattan skyline is a little overblown. I never said anything about the design or the process.

Posted on: 2012/1/2 15:47
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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The guy in the post above doesn't understand why some people don't like the memorial so I will try to list the reasons: In the first place, the public never had any input in the process of selecting the design or its placement. Which is an awful thing in itself but insult was added to injury when the people in charge of the project claimed that the selection and placement process was open and transparent, that there were public meetings. There were not and the design was not presented to the public until it was a done deal. Next, the design was bad. Its an aesthetic humbug and the designers should be ashamed of themselves. Next, it took FOREVER to build and the whole time the project sat in limbo that entire corner of the park was an ugly stalled construction site. YEARS went by and the fence around the project reminded. Those of us who used the park regularly were constantly reminded of how unfair and intrusive this project was. The designers decided the project needed to be carved through a hill so they built the project on flat ground and manufactured a fake hill to put it through! The project reportedly cost eighty million dollars. When you stand there and look at it, it looks cheep, the outside faces of the walls are naked cement. The top edges look like pieces intended to dress the cement are missing. The inner faces of the wall are thin steel panels that don't appear to be any more well anchored than vinyl siding on a suburban house. Apparently THEY MISSPELLED SOME OF THE NAMES. Often some of the lights that illuminate the inside at night are burned out. For eighty million dollars spent, there should have been a beautiful classy memorial everyone could agree on. Instead we have this 30' tall cement abomination that blocks views of the river, the cioty and the harbor and has to be guarded by a sherif or parks department police officer EVERY NIGHT. My only hope is that this whole mess will serve as a textbook example of how NOT TO build a memorial- the ONLY function this memorial could possibly be good for.

Posted on: 2012/1/2 14:32
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I was at LSP today and spent some time around the memorial. My initial impression is how ridiculous it was for everyone to be complaining that it would be ruining the views of downtown Manhattan. There are over 1200 acres in LSP, and these things take up 200 feet of the waterfront. It's very small relative to the amount of waterfront in the park. From the parking lot by the old train station and ferry stop, I barely noticed they were there.

Posted on: 2012/1/2 2:12
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Thought and reflection on this memorial = what an ugly tribute to the people who perished and a sorry waste of taxpayer money.

Posted on: 2011/9/22 16:05
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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sandstone wrote:
Memorials aren't necessarily designed for beauty. Their purpose is to inspire thought and relection. Thus the word memorial. If those who visit, and there will be millions at this, the most visited state park in the nation, pause to remember, it will serve its purpose. I've been there three times so far and each time those visiting were silent - always a good sign at a memorial. The only comments I heard were positive.

As for blocking skyline views, that turns out be far from the problem that caused all the whining.


Yeah, great. Instead of dedicating that corner Liberty State Park for the obvious: showcasing the uplifting history of a growing, increasingly diverse America, it?s dominated by two giant gray extrusions of emotionally cold building materials whose effect is to elicit sorrow and, well, emptiness. Twenty-million dollars later and the train shed still rots away.

Posted on: 2011/9/22 13:54
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Memorials aren't necessarily designed for beauty. Their purpose is to inspire thought and relection. Thus the word memorial. If those who visit, and there will be millions at this, the most visited state park in the nation, pause to remember, it will serve its purpose. I've been there three times so far and each time those visiting were silent - always a good sign at a memorial. The only comments I heard were positive.

As for blocking skyline views, that turns out be far from the problem that caused all the whining.

Posted on: 2011/9/22 13:04
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Besides it looking like an unfinished construction site it still cost over 20 million.

Michael Bloomberg's 22,000 SF manison on 35 acres in the Hamptons cost 20 million and it has stables, tennis court and pool. This memorial doesn't even have a broom closet.

http://gawker.com/5823301/mayor-bloom ... million-hamptons-hideaway

Some one really needs to see where all this money went to build these two cement walls for over twenty....million....dollars. Remember, this memorial wasn't designed and built by some famous sculptor.

Posted on: 2011/9/22 2:01
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Ugly is still ugly, no matter how much sentiment you wrap around it.

There is only one view of this memorial that provides any context of what it actually represents. For 355 degrees, it looks like an incomplete construction job on a hill. If it annoys the viewer rather uplifts him/her, its purpose is unfulfilled. And what a price tag!

The best memorial at that spot in the park is the missing towers on the Manhattan side....not this concrete vanity.

Posted on: 2011/9/21 14:03
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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perfectly said! i was at the memorial- and it was quite moving and beautiful. we brought our son and his friend to honor those lost and their families and friends. it seems as though many people are focusing on the structure (as i did as well- which really is NOT the issue). please everyone, keep in mind the lack of democratic decision. also- to the person that posted that the names of those lost were only around 6 ft high- that is so the families can see and touch the names that are engraved on the steel walls. ( maybe someone has already pointed this out)

Posted on: 2011/9/21 0:13
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP
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leigh13 wrote:
It really does look like the twin towers lying flat on the ground. Brilliant.


I'll pay my respects over at Newport with the much more tasteful monument (that coincidentally strives for the exact same effect.)


omigosh, you are RIGHT. so in addition to being an eyesore, it's in hideously poor taste.

Posted on: 2011/9/15 7:24
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP
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It really does look like the twin towers lying flat on the ground. Brilliant.


I'll pay my respects over at Newport with the much more tasteful monument (that coincidentally strives for the exact same effect.)

Posted on: 2011/9/14 21:29
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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after reading all of this and seeing some photos - i finally took a ride over there today. Drove through the entire park because I didn't know exactly where it was. After seeing it - all I have to say is REALLY? Ruin the views from the park? REALLY? This takes up a tiny sliver of the park. I might not be a huge fan of the design - but who cares? There is a lot more park and a lot of other spots with a great view.

REALLY?

Posted on: 2011/9/14 21:16
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I am reminded of the Berlin Wall, not the Twin Towers.

Posted on: 2011/9/14 20:15
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