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Re: C-Town Being Sold
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Joke JCnight. People have been joking here for years about a Wegmans, Whole Foods, or TJ's coming to Jersey City. It certainly would be smart for one of them to seize on the opportunity. Perhaps one day in the future. Wegmans is now concentrating on expanding in Maryland/Virginia and now near Boston with two stores to open in 2011. ( I worked with Wegmans for 6 years before joining my partner's business in the city). They were fantastic to work for!

Posted on: 2010/9/6 17:58
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Bill463 wrote:
I heard Wegmans will be here soon!


What?? Is this true or a joke?

Posted on: 2010/9/6 17:40
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I heard Wegmans will be here soon!

I avoid Shop Rite at all costs. I gave it several tries but the folks that have to work there are just beyond rude. I've come out of that store so very depressed. Wish Shop Rite would offer their employees some type of minimal customer service training. It really is beyond words to describe sometimes. The seafood there looks like it has been sitting there for a week. I have no problem with the A&P but yes, that Lower Price Project is a joke. I do most of my shopping at Wegmans in Woodbridge. And for those that will chide " to drive an hour round trip to shop is crazy" I say no it ain't! 30 minutes in the car to get to a store with fantastic fresh food at low prices? No problem! I love Trader Joe's also. One can get great items at low prices. Someone earlier said that Trader's was expensive? Sounds like they don't shop there. Silly. I've never set foot in that C-Town - I've never had the need.

Posted on: 2010/9/6 17:15
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Tash said:
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So, I don't know where you got this idea that TJs is overpriced. Again SR has a good selection, but not the best prices or quality. Also, who cannot praise the fresh smile of every SR check out clerk as s/he pleasantly packs your bag and sends you on your way.


Bingo! This is EXACTLY why TJ's continues to thrive as they constantly expand in any market. They provide very high quality items at very reasonable prices (low, by some standards) and they emphasize good customer service. Shopping in a TJ is a pleasant experience. On the other hand, shopping at SR is a nightmare. Besides the massive, surly crowds, you must also contend with the hostile staff manning their Customer Service desk and cash registers. How could anyone enjoy a shopping trip to SR is beyond me. I only stop there if I absolutely have to, and even then I try to avoid it.

Posted on: 2010/9/6 17:03
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Xerxes wrote:
If I had a choice betweeen two stores to be near my home: one, the Shop-Rite on Marin and the other the Trader Joe's on 14th (magically whisked into the BJ's lot) it would not take me a SECOND to realize the Shop-Rite is the better choice.

Also, if the Marin Shop-Rite was magically transported to 14th and Irving Place, both Trader Joe's AND Whole Foods would be driven out of business.

Manhattanites shop in these tediously overpriced, overcrowded stores only because they MUST and their other choices are ugly bodega-types like C-Town. (Anyone who thinks Trader Joe's produce looks good must spend time in a dumpster.)
And for gorgeous produce, and it truly is, anyone who can spend $40 a pound for morels at Whole Foods is NOT living on Third and Coles.

So many people on this board are fond of market driven economic decisions but when it comes to a simple food store, economic considerations magically disappear. The reason the Shop Rite will crucify all comers is that it MUST...it is the perfect store for the perfect place at the perfect price level, and suits the demographics perfectly. Yesterday morning, there were 17 out of a possible 21 cashiers open at SR busy ringing up orders. MW usually has 2, A&P 1 or 2 (and the auto check outs.)

That we HAVE a Shop-Rite I consider pure serendipity. Before they opened I had to drive to either Kennedy Boulevard (new A&P) or to ShopRite Columbia Park. Both good stores but a schlepp.

When I go, I will miss 2 things badly: the Waterfront Walkway and the easy walk to the superb Shop-Rite.




Sounds like the only Trader Joe's you been to is the one on 14th. No one is talking about putting it in place of Home Depot Target and BJs. Trader Joe's doesn't occupy large spaces for a reason, because it is not a get-all-you-need-at-one-place food shopping super-center like SR or Whole Foods. That is why the C-town space is perfect for it.

It's a very affordable priced quality grocery store. In Manhattan, where grocery item prices are astronomical, I can get a box of Kashi cereal and Soy Milk at Trader Joe's for $4.50 and pay $8 at shoprite, in Jersey City, I can get organic peanut-butter at TJ's for $2.30, or for pay $4.50 at shop-rite, I can get a TWO pints of grape tomatoes for $2.40 at TJs, or pay $5 at SR, I can get edamame for $1.25, or pay $2.50 at SR, a bag of Fresh Baby Spinach? $2 at TJ, Decent sliced whole grain bread $2, SR sell its on sale for $2.69, shall I go on with my grocery list?

So, I don't know where you got this idea that TJs is overpriced. Again SR has a good selection, but not the best prices or quality. Also, who cannot praise the fresh smile of every SR check out clerk as s/he pleasantly packs your bag and sends you on your way.

Posted on: 2010/9/4 18:10
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uh... the reason TJ's is so popular is because they're putting out good food at a very fair price. $3 bottles of wine that are very, very drinkable? Yes, please. The rest of the food is certainly more expensive than a huge supermarket chain, but nowhere approaching While Foods' level of stupidity.

Let's put it this way. I can fill up a handbasket at TJ's and it won't run me more than $30. That same basket would probably run me $25 if stuff was on sale at Shoprite and about $50 at Whole Foods.

Posted on: 2010/9/4 17:43
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If I had a choice betweeen two stores to be near my home: one, the Shop-Rite on Marin and the other the Trader Joe's on 14th (magically whisked into the BJ's lot) it would not take me a SECOND to realize the Shop-Rite is the better choice.

Also, if the Marin Shop-Rite was magically transported to 14th and Irving Place, both Trader Joe's AND Whole Foods would be driven out of business.

Manhattanites shop in these tediously overpriced, overcrowded stores only because they MUST and their other choices are ugly bodega-types like C-Town. (Anyone who thinks Trader Joe's produce looks good must spend time in a dumpster.)
And for gorgeous produce, and it truly is, anyone who can spend $40 a pound for morels at Whole Foods is NOT living on Third and Coles.

So many people on this board are fond of market driven economic decisions but when it comes to a simple food store, economic considerations magically disappear. The reason the Shop Rite will crucify all comers is that it MUST...it is the perfect store for the perfect place at the perfect price level, and suits the demographics perfectly. Yesterday morning, there were 17 out of a possible 21 cashiers open at SR busy ringing up orders. MW usually has 2, A&P 1 or 2 (and the auto check outs.)

That we HAVE a Shop-Rite I consider pure serendipity. Before they opened I had to drive to either Kennedy Boulevard (new A&P) or to ShopRite Columbia Park. Both good stores but a schlepp.

When I go, I will miss 2 things badly: the Waterfront Walkway and the easy walk to the superb Shop-Rite.

Posted on: 2010/9/4 13:15
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
What if we all click our heels together and repeat "There's no place like Trader Joe's"???

It's not a bad place if what they have is what you are looking for. I find them to have a bunch a speciality item most of which are packaged goods. It's not your average everyday market. The Western Beef store is verging on low rent such as Food Basics, or Walmart's grocery department. I'm sure the quality will suffice but it will not be high-end. Western Beef is more of a smaller Nyc/urban supermarket chain. The name and decor color reeks.

Posted on: 2010/9/3 14:53
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I have never seen an area so awash with good grocery stores.


Man, I constantly think about how underserved this area is as far as grocery goes. By "good" do you mean "big"? I guess you can make that point.

I realize the "Pathmark sucks. Shoprite sucks. A&P sucks" mantra has been beaten into the ground by this point, but don't you think there is room for a truly good grocery? And it doesn't have to be Whole Foods - just something that sells healthy, sustainably grown, preferably local food in a convenient location, clean environment and staffed by courteous people?

I wasn't able to attend the Downtown Coop event, but judging by the size of the space (from the outside) it looks like it won't be much more than a corner market. I'm talking about a real grocery store.

Posted on: 2010/9/3 14:47
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I have never seen an area so awash with good grocery stores. That's why the marginal ones fail and that's why another one is totally unnecessary.
(The book has long been closed on the mom and pop type bodega-type stores except along Bergenline Avenue.)

Any sensible financial decision about Downtown Jersey City MUST take all that into account.


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It was a lot easier when I set up my lemonade stand.

And that's the reason you didn't open between a Minute Maid Factory Outlet and a Tropicana Factory, you opened somewhere where lemonade was hard to find!

It still boggles my mind why Associated though it prudent to open a Morton Williams where they did. The bottom line on that store must be horrific...maybe that's why the store manager always looks to be on the verge of tears.

Posted on: 2010/9/3 14:37
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hamiltonparkjc wrote:
I love all these anecdotal opinions that people just KNOW and yet they can't figure out word wrap or the quote function.

M3 Maps has does a very good 2 part study of Trader Joes locations based in the Philly area.

Basic finds are:

Ingredient 1: Highway Accessibility in or near Urban Areas
Ingredient 2: Zip Code Populations > 6000 people
Ingredient 3: Population Density > 700 people / square mile
Ingredient 4: Median Income Zones between $30K and $150K
Ingredient 5: Top 40% of Income Quintiles

Regardless of the C-Town location, I'd say Downtown scores exceedingly well on all those criteria.

http://www.jordansilberman.com/m3maps/portfolio/trader_joes_1.htm



So it needs to be on Earth, essentially. "In or near". 6000 people in a zip is likely every zip in NJ. A income zone with a spread of 30 to 150K? So very little to 5 times very little? This isn't their criteria, it's someone's interpretation of their existing stores modeled into where they MIGHT go next (as I'm sure you know). I work in commercial RE, I can just say anecdotally they're not just fickle, they're VERY fickle, and economics (as mentioned before) is a huge component of the deal as well. That said, even if we did meet all those "Ingredients", if it we're a single digit rent deal, it still wouldn't happen.

It was a lot easier when I set up my lemonade stand.

Posted on: 2010/9/3 14:16
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Tash wrote:
I think you are mixing up Aldi fund with Aldi corporation.


No. Not mixed up. From a recent Fortune article:

"Few customers realize the chain is owned by Germany's ultra-private Albrecht family, the people behind the Aldi Nord supermarket empire. (A different branch of the family controls Aldi S?d, parent of the U.S. Aldi grocery chain.)"

I didn't say there was a parent subsidiary relationship between Aldi and Trader Joe's. (I think someone earlier in the thread said that.) I said the Albrechts own both (the European Aldi's - the original Aldi's - and TJs.) At the end of the day, who cares what kind of corporate shell game is played? The people are the same.

The article: http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/20/news/ ... oes_full_version.fortune/


Dude, you think I didn't read the fortune article? whoa, you take me for someone who doesn't know how to google

Anyway, I am happy Adler group funded Trader Joe's, or bought out, if you prefer a corporate term. I think the company has a great supply and stocking system, and it obviously very cautious on becoming corporate. Yet, having European presence in US makes me happy. Supermarkets in Europe are very pleasant and have great selection.

Trader Joe's doesn't wanna go public and I am very happy with that on Adler group decision. I like the selection and the prices at Trader Joe's - it has the best value, and I would take that over any Target Superstore. I like Trader Joe's Hawaiian work shirts marketing scheme, too. People at Fortune are just frustrated because they want to make money on it.

Posted on: 2010/9/3 1:03
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Amy wrote:
You know all that warehouse-y stuff/empty lots right between JC and Hoboken and just next to the Holland Tunnel approach? You know, Coles St going toward Hoboken? That's where you put your Trader Joe's. You get parking; you get customers from JC and Hoboken, as well as commuters; you get plenty of space.You also get huge traffic jams, but ...

Anyway, I don't know if that area is supposed to be developed or not, but it might be a good location.


Home depot tried to get some blocks closed up there to create a superblock for a store before they settled on the current location. I recall a lot of that area is brownfields hung up in detox limbo.

Posted on: 2010/9/3 0:47
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Tash wrote:
I think you are mixing up Aldi fund with Aldi corporation.


No. Not mixed up. From a recent Fortune article:

"Few customers realize the chain is owned by Germany's ultra-private Albrecht family, the people behind the Aldi Nord supermarket empire. (A different branch of the family controls Aldi S?d, parent of the U.S. Aldi grocery chain.)"

I didn't say there was a parent subsidiary relationship between Aldi and Trader Joe's. (I think someone earlier in the thread said that.) I said the Albrechts own both (the European Aldi's - the original Aldi's - and TJs.) At the end of the day, who cares what kind of corporate shell game is played? The people are the same.

The article: http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/20/news/ ... oes_full_version.fortune/

Posted on: 2010/9/2 23:45
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You know all that warehouse-y stuff/empty lots right between JC and Hoboken and just next to the Holland Tunnel approach? You know, Coles St going toward Hoboken? That's where you put your Trader Joe's. You get parking; you get customers from JC and Hoboken, as well as commuters; you get plenty of space.You also get huge traffic jams, but ...

Anyway, I don't know if that area is supposed to be developed or not, but it might be a good location.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 22:49
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There's already a decent sized Garden of Eden in Hoboken.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 20:54
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Matchjames, I see what you are saying and I agree that the C-Town location is a weak choice. However, NJ in general, and the Hoboken/Downtown area is what we can correlate them looking for. Density, education, income and transportation are assets which we already have and are steadily improving.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 20:38
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Tash wrote:
Trader Joe's has no corporate relationship to Aldi, it shares a trust with the company i.e. family fund FYI


They are owned and operated by the same family. There is certainly a "relationship" there. The family sets the strategic path for both. It's a lot more intimate than if, say, Fidelity owned big stakes in both.


Yes, but not the same corporation, there's a difference. No company can expand without funds and Aldi Family funded trader Joe's to expand. The same family funds many other food companies either through shares (which would indicate ownership) or direct monetary injections (which would indicate interest and contractual obligations of the fund), but the family's decisions are based on how well the fund does (into which trader Joe's deposits it's money probably based on percentage the family established, kinda like a bond.) Trader Joe's operations are left to Trader Joe's, that is why trader Joe's look nothing like Aldi or any European groceries...because it is different company from the former. If I invest money in Trader Joe's without buying shares I don't become an "owner."

Aldi is a corporation, trader Joe's is not and it is not governed by Aldi's corporate decisions because investors at Aldi are not exposed to the Trader Joe's risk directly. Does Aldi own Fidelity if they share a fund where both of them keep & invest money? Aldi fund is a private family portfolio, not a corporation, no ownership involved here. I wouldn't even go as far as calling Trader Joe's a subsidiary of Aldi...I think you are mixing up Aldi fund with Aldi corporation.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 20:30
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What if we all click our heels together and repeat "There's no place like Trader Joe's"???

Posted on: 2010/9/2 20:18
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hamiltonparkjc wrote:
I love all these anecdotal opinions that people just KNOW and yet they can't figure out word wrap or the quote function.

M3 Maps has does a very good 2 part study of Trader Joes locations based in the Philly area.

Basic finds are:

Ingredient 1: Highway Accessibility in or near Urban Areas
Ingredient 2: Zip Code Populations > 6000 people
Ingredient 3: Population Density > 700 people / square mile
Ingredient 4: Median Income Zones between $30K and $150K
Ingredient 5: Top 40% of Income Quintiles

Regardless of the C-Town location, I'd say Downtown scores exceedingly well on all those criteria.

http://www.jordansilberman.com/m3maps/portfolio/trader_joes_1.htm



So it needs to be on Earth, essentially. "In or near". 6000 people in a zip is likely every zip in NJ. A income zone with a spread of 30 to 150K? So very little to 5 times very little? This isn't their criteria, it's someone's interpretation of their existing stores modeled into where they MIGHT go next (as I'm sure you know). I work in commercial RE, I can just say anecdotally they're not just fickle, they're VERY fickle, and economics (as mentioned before) is a huge component of the deal as well. That said, even if we did meet all those "Ingredients", if it we're a single digit rent deal, it still wouldn't happen.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 19:47
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Tash wrote:
Trader Joe's has no corporate relationship to Aldi, it shares a trust with the company i.e. family fund FYI


They are owned and operated by the same family. There is certainly a "relationship" there. The family sets the strategic path for both. It's a lot more intimate than if, say, Fidelity owned big stakes in both.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 19:36
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Scottacus wrote:
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matchjames wrote:

You know you bring up an excellent point I'd forgotten about... with A&P/Pathmark in a serious world of hurt right now (bankruptcy is eminent) it wouldn't surprise me to see TJ's THINK about where A&P is now as it would have the parking AND have much easier access to Hoboken AND whoever in Downtown JC wants it.


I could see that, although the A&P is much larger than a typical Trader Joes. I would even more likely see them giving up the small A&P in Hoboken, which has limited parking and seems smaller than a "real" supermarket should be. Also, if a developer offers a sufficiently good deal on a lease as a way to attract apartment tenants (or condo buyers) TJs might be persuaded to consider a JC or Hoboken location. TJs has done that in other cities in the Northeast.

In the end what matters most to TJs -- in all things -- is cost. They are notoriously cost-sensitive, and that extends to their site selection strategy. When they find a location that meets their needs and is adequately inexpensive, they may choose to put a store in the JC or Hoboken area.

Also, given their focus on keeping down distribution costs, the more stores they have in an area, the more likely they are to open others, as for them the cost of operating a store is lower when there are many other locations in the same area (as distribution center costs can be amortized over more locations and the same delivery trucks can serve multiple stores). That's why there are so many TJs in California and Massachusetts - many far closer together than downtown JC/Hoboken is from Edgewater.

And for those who talk about TJ's vs Whole Foods opening in JC -- the logic for site selection between Trader Joe's and Whole Foods is very different. Since Whole Foods doesn't have anywhere near as much a focus on efficient distribution, they are more likely to open a single store in a metro area before TJs. But TJs tends to be willing to have more stores closer together (as long as they get a good deal on rent). And TJs tends to look much more at specific behavioral patterns vs broad demographics when siting stores.



All VERY valid and true. And one important thing you bring up (COST) is what would keep them OUT of that A&P Center.. Simon isn't giving anything away, and TJ's is NOTORIOUSLY cheap (as is their parent company Aldi). (subdividing the A&P for a smaller tenant isn't a big deal the landlords do that all the time)


you DID know Aldi owns TJ's didn't you all?


Trader Joe's has no corporate relationship to Aldi, it shares a trust with the company i.e. family fund FYI

Posted on: 2010/9/2 18:59
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I love all these anecdotal opinions that people just KNOW and yet they can't figure out word wrap or the quote function.

M3 Maps has does a very good 2 part study of Trader Joes locations based in the Philly area.

Basic finds are:

Ingredient 1: Highway Accessibility in or near Urban Areas
Ingredient 2: Zip Code Populations > 6000 people
Ingredient 3: Population Density > 700 people / square mile
Ingredient 4: Median Income Zones between $30K and $150K
Ingredient 5: Top 40% of Income Quintiles

Regardless of the C-Town location, I'd say Downtown scores exceedingly well on all those criteria.

http://www.jordansilberman.com/m3maps/portfolio/trader_joes_1.htm

Posted on: 2010/9/2 18:27
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No I understand what you are talking about, but TJ's has a fan base that WILL walk the distance. Did you see the insanity when it opened on 14th? People took path from JC to go there. I think you are underestimating TJ's fan base in JC. And don't call it a chain, it is a very successful PRIVATELY owned company it doesn't compare to ANY grocery chains. IF the store traffic is so dependent on whether there are parking spots or not, I am sure TJ's management can make a decision to buy that funeral home across the street and level it into a lot (although I want it to become a vampire night club, but I digest)


This is exactly why they're NEVER COMING HERE, because YOU WILL GO TO THEM. I can say it til I'm blue in the face, there are simply not enough of the appropriate demographic to sustain our own Trader Joes in Downtown Jersey City UNLESS you move it close enough to Hoboken to factor them in too, All this complaining about Shop Rite? A Trader Joe's will not take one DIME out of that store's volume... that demo is still +/-80% of who lives here, and the other 20% isn't shopping there anyway as everyone's said over and over. With Edgewater close for driving people and 14th St a Path ride away, the relatively tiny amount of people a JC store would serve IS being served.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 18:04
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From The fog.
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Quote:

ECH wrote:
Most of you lovelies who are chock full of opinions on what
should become of CTown should realize that the
building and lot lie smack dab in the middle of a
city, state and federal historic district, and thus
the property is
restricted to some very tight redevelopment controls.

The folks who live here and take historic district
status seriously will be on the lookout for what
is planned on that site.

So many ridiculous and redundant rehabs
and condo conversions and new constructions
have gone on here in the past few years,
skirting the proper channels via who knows
what nefarious means, that adding the CTown
Condos to the list is just not gonna happen.
Leave well enuf alone.
If CTown does not meet your elite shopping
standards, then go somewhere else.
The new Trader Joe on 23rd St, would love
to have your business. Put your money
where your mouths are, big spenders.



I think you missed the part about Western Beef acquiring your precious historical site, Sparky.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 17:50
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Re: C-Town Being Sold
#86
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Last Login :
2012/7/20 16:31
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Most of you lovelies who are chock full of opinions on what
should become of CTown should realize that the
building and lot lie smack dab in the middle of a
city, state and federal historic district, and thus
the property is
restricted to some very tight redevelopment controls.

The folks who live here and take historic district
status seriously will be on the lookout for what
is planned on that site.

So many ridiculous and redundant rehabs
and condo conversions and new constructions
have gone on here in the past few years,
skirting the proper channels via who knows
what nefarious means, that adding the CTown
Condos to the list is just not gonna happen.
Leave well enuf alone.
If CTown does not meet your elite shopping
standards, then go somewhere else.
The new Trader Joe on 23rd St, would love
to have your business. Put your money
where your mouths are, big spenders.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 17:36
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Re: C-Town Being Sold
#85
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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2014/6/14 1:55
From Heights
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Yeah the lines at Trader Joe's on 14th are insane (yet, in my opinion, dealt better with there than at A&P or that nightmare Shop Rite), but they only confirm its large fan base. And one just opened on Sixth ave and one in Brooklyn to back that one up. Trader joe's doesn't care about being THE cheapest because it never will compromise quality for price. However, it will always consider value, which neither cheapo western beef, c-town, or chains can really deliver.

Yeah a heavy price tag for the space, I agree, and poor shape of real is estate is not helping. Huge price drop can be expected though, no worries.

Also, since when did Trader Joe's become a "specialty" shop? I always thought of it as a super cool grocery store given it has produce and all, but maybe my definition of grocery differs from others'. Perhaps a deli counter makes a grocery store, or a parking lot?

Posted on: 2010/9/2 17:09
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Re: C-Town Being Sold
#84
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From Mars
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Quote:

Xerxes wrote:
The C-Town site will best be turned into a parking garage.


Wow. No.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 16:38
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Re: C-Town Being Sold
#83
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Just to rip more on C-town.....The produce there, is just awful, awful, awful, it's like playing a russian roulette, pick at you own risk...shelf life has no end at C-town.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 15:35
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Re: C-Town Being Sold
#82
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Parking is essential. Its Jersey!!! Stop mentioning the five boroughs and their massive public transportation system. That's why it needs a lot.

A&p stinks and the lines are forever. The self checkout is abused by hipsters with 40 items.

Also try pathmark on 440 its vastly different. If you want the one on grand to change speak to the manager. Its a business if you want a product they'll get it if it turns a profit.

Also this is why we can't get any decent bars restaurant clubs in town. Ita too expensive to just get a location.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 15:31
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