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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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ninasdogwalk wrote:

Apparently after the incident the owner took off and refused to give him any information about themselves. It's horrendous that this happened yet again and who knows how many other times. This is disgraceful. I did see in this thread that this should hopefully be coming to a resolution as of yesterday...


I can't get over the fact that someone refused to give any information, In a prior news post on this thread is a statement from the Hudson County Prosecutor: "DeFazio asks that anyone who may have been attacked by these dogs to call his office at (201) 795-6959"
Please pass this information to your friend.

Posted on: 2009/1/24 15:45
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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jerseymom wrote:
Cops: Man attacked by unleashed dogs in Downtown Jersey City

by Michaelangelo Conte/The Jersey Journal
Monday January 19, 2009, 6:14 PM

A Jersey City man was attacked by two mastiffs in the city's Downtown neighborhood this morning, and the owner of the dogs was issued two summonses for failing to keep them on leashes, officials said.

Susan Clob, 58, of Dudley Street, was issued the summonses after the 7 a.m. attack at Christopher Columbus Drive and Washington Street, police said.

The 24-year-old victim, a resident of Brunswick Street, was taken to the Jersey City Medical Center in stable condition and appears to have suffered injuries to his arm, officials said.

When police responded they saw the dog owner leading the mastiffs into a nearby building and a witness flagged down the cops and pointed out the victim who had run into a nearby lobby, reports said.

The victim said Clob unleashed the large male and smaller female dogs, which then ran across the street, police said. The male bit his arm, then the female bit him as well.

Clob tried to pulled them off the victim but they were both dragged to the ground, police said.

A witness tried to scare the dogs off by driving his car toward them but that did not work, police said.

Construction workers at a nearby project approached the dogs and banged their helmets on the ground to scare them as the larger one was going for the victim's neck, police said.

The dogs let up enough for the victim to run to the safety of a nearby building with the larger dog on his heels, police said.

Clob was issued the summonses but the dogs were not taken away, officials said.

I know of another person who was attacked by these same dogs in a prior incident less than 2 weeks ago. He was inquiring as to whether I had any information about the dogs or the owners. In the end, all he was able to do was file a police report. Apparently after the incident the owner took off and refused to give him any information about themselves. It's horrendous that this happened yet again and who knows how many other times. This is disgraceful. I did see in this thread that this should hopefully be coming to a resolution as of yesterday...

Posted on: 2009/1/24 9:01
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Solution - Muzzle dogs and owners when they go for walks


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Posted on: 2009/1/23 22:26
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It's true I have done nothing but adore this dog and do everything possible for her... she was never beat, left in the cold, hungry, nothing.... It is her trait and I have to deal with it. And like Jenny... my dog has snapped at me once or twice when reprimanding her but I love her just the same. I know people look down at me when they pass in the street and she lunges or barks like Cujo...I'm sure they think I trained her to be that way, but she trained herself to be that way I guess. Altho it does come in handy when walking outside at 1am.... No one will come near me lol.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 18:31
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Greenvillechick wrote:
My dog is a black lab chow/chow mix. Chows are known to be sweet to their immediate family and a terror otherwise... when I got this little ball of fluff my mom (a vet) insisted she was going to be a nasty dog... I told her she was crazy.

Lo and behold... I socialized her from 3 months on... dog parks, people etc... and slowly but surely she became the terror that she is today. Very head strong and territorial. I do believe it is her chow trait in her that took her over, I have tried everything with this girl, I never ever trained her to be nasty and she went that way.


Give it up, you're straying onto virtually religious ground where people invest a lot into their view of "nature vs nurture". Pets or kids, no one wants to believe there's such a thing as "born bad", they want to believe they have control.

Every kitten I've raised or known, their personalities were clear by 8 weeks. I told my mother not to buy the kitten she liked, it was a whiner. That cat bitched and whined till the day she died, 15 years later. There was a toddler in my sons preschool, he was dour and sullen then, he's a dour and sullen preteen. I just read in "The Tipping Point" that adopted children are no more likely to resemble their foster parents in traits and personality than they are total strangers.

Now take this to animal breeds that have been selectively bred for decades or centuries for certain personality traits. You're not going to erase that with a little TLC.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 17:48
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My dog is a black lab chow/chow mix. Chows are known to be sweet to their immediate family and a terror otherwise... when I got this little ball of fluff my mom (a vet) insisted she was going to be a nasty dog... I told her she was crazy.

Lo and behold... I socialized her from 3 months on... dog parks, people etc... and slowly but surely she became the terror that she is today. Very head strong and territorial. I do believe it is her chow trait in her that took her over, I have tried everything with this girl, I never ever trained her to be nasty and she went that way.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 16:44
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Elvis wrote:Concerns about ?dangerous? dogs have caused many local governments to consider supplementing existing animal control laws with ordinances directed toward control of specific breeds or types of dogs. Members of the Task Force believe such ordinances are inappropriate and ineffective. It helps if you actually READ your links.


Thanks for the advice Elvis, but I do read the links.

What makes you think I didn't read that?

All the literature suggests breed specific regulations are problematic. I never suggested breed specific regulation. Each of my suggestions applied across the board to ALL dog owners. In fact, the only distinction I make is between urban and rural environments, which I think makes sense.

If you are referring to the other studies I cited regarding breed specific tendencies, I was responding to someone who said dog bites are not breed dependent, which is not entirely accurate. Breed is one of many relevant factors as it relates to which dogs bite. But I never suggested breed specific regulation.

You should read what I write more carefully, you could learn something! I'm proud of you for reading the AVMA study though!

Posted on: 2009/1/23 16:12
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Doggie wars, yuppie/hipster wars, baby stroller blocking up the sidewalk wars. Feels nice to be living in Park Slope again.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 15:27
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Third Rail,

That post really points out how ridiculous that post was. Great job. Would read again. A+++.

And Phil,

The last time you posted an helpful link, you know the one from the avma? Well it said this:


Concerns about ?dangerous? dogs have caused many local governments to consider supplementing existing animal control laws with ordinances directed toward control of specific breeds or
types of dogs. Members of the Task Force believe such
ordinances are inappropriate and ineffective.

It helps if you actually READ your links.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 14:47
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Here I fixed it for you.....

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philasurfer wrote:



I would propose dog owners parents must get licensing, similar to a obtaining a car license. It would involve (1) basic dog kid owning knowledge test, (2) evidence of insurance so that, if your dog bites kid attacks someone, the victim can sue the shit out you and (3) maybe some other requirements that would be useful. People keep saying dogs have to be licensed now and I know that, but as these dog lovers parents love to say, it is not the dogs its the owners my kid. So owners parents should need a license, as well as the dogs kids. Also large fees should be charged for these licenses so that more money can be put into doggy law curfew enforcement.

As for urban areas, dog owning child bearing should be much more restrictive. In the suburbs or rural areas you can make a better argument for dog child freedom, but not in a city. I would require a mandatory license to evidence that every single dog child you own in a city has gone through some form of obedience training. A dog child seen off a leash causing problems should be immediately confiscated and sent to live with a family on a farm. I would also only allow dogs children in certain areas of the city, not on every street of the city. Some areas would be off limits to dogs children.

Thats what I can say Just off the top of my head...but any rules would best come out of a dialogue between dog owners parents and people like myself.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 14:25
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mwa7368 wrote:
Classic arguments that the courts have already thought of....bottom line? WALKING YOUR DOG OFF THE LEASH IS ILLEGAL! As such, anyone who criticizes criminals and walks their dog without a leash is a hypocrite. If you want to let your dog off the leash, move away from the city. God help you


OK, so anyone that goes 60mph in a 55mph zone cannot criticize criminals? If this is your world view, God help YOU. Dog off leash, like speeding, is a civil violation. This one had consequences, as speeding may too. I'd suggest just toning down the rhetoric.

Cheers.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 13:49
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Reminds me of that Pitbull from a year and a half ago. All the people ACTUALLY involved knew what the dog did, knew where the dogs owner lived and took action to get it resolved. All the people who knew nothing of the incidents tried to make it about everyone else except the actual culprit. It became a witch-hunt for every dog in Hamilton Park. The hysterics eventually died down and there have been NO incidents in HP since. It comes down to indivuals people. This owner was stupid. The dogs are doomed. Case closed. Stop projecting.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 6:21
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Classic arguments that the courts have already thought of....bottom line? WALKING YOUR DOG OFF THE LEASH IS ILLEGAL! As such, anyone who criticizes criminals and walks their dog without a leash is a hypocrite. If you want to let your dog off the leash, move away from the city. God help you

Posted on: 2009/1/23 4:04
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These studies are helpful.

According to one study, certain breeds are far more likely to bite than others. German Shepherds are common biters. Labradors rarely bite. Ofcourse, Breed is not the only relevant factor. Sex is also highly relevant.

In general, Male dogs are more likely to be biters.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog3.pdf

According to this other study, "Several interacting factors affect a dog?s propensity to bite, including:
- heredity
- sex
- early experience,
- socialization and training
- health (medical and behavioral),
- reproductive status,
- quality of ownership and supervision
- victim behavior"

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

However, as it relates to fatal attacks, they found that

"Rottweilers were the most commonly reported breed involved in fatal attacks, followed by pit bull-type dogs. Together, these 2 breeds were involved in approximately 60% of human deaths."


Therefore, I think there is ABSOLUTELY a correlation between a dog's breed and the chances it will bite someone. That is not to say that a certain breed WILL certainly bite someone, just that they are more likely to bite. Breed is one of several relevant factors.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 3:59
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Jaah37 Wrote: Some dogs may be inherently dominant and/ or aggressive but it is not BREED dependent.


I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing about dog breeding, but this doesn't make logical sense to me.

If a dog is bred, for example, to be a guard dog, like a German Shepherd, won't that dog breed be more aggressive than one bred to, say, be a lap dog?


i'd be remiss if i didn't start by saying that german shepherd's are not a guardian breed, they are herding dogs.

to continue with the idea of guard dogs - there is a line between guarding and unbridled aggression. rottweilers for example, a common guardian breed, are bred to guard their home/family/whatever from strangers and intruders. they are not bred to indiscriminately attack anyone they come across. breeds do have tendencies based on their original use. i could be wrong but i think what jaah37 is trying to convey is that these dogs, to use a relevant example, are not allegedly aggressive simply because they are boerboels (which is their correct breed).

Posted on: 2009/1/23 3:45
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From my understanding, the majority of dogs (prue and muts) are breed for financial gain on puppy farms or dog farms - breed them, then get rid of them after 'x' amount of weeks from birth.
Most people want pups, so there wouldn't be too much time to work on their temperament.

She means breed them for temperament, not train them. There are just dogs out there that are programmed genetically to be mean and aggressive, no mater what kind of upbringing they have. There are also dogs that are genetically programmed to be more sedate and playful. Generally you don't want to be breeding dogs that are super aggressive, because guess what, most likely you'll be getting super aggressive dogs when they're born.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 3:42
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Bad dog owners to blame again. Problem dogs always have a history of attacks before their owners finally wise up to the problem or the gov intervenes. Remember that dog that attacked the illegal immigrant who was working outside the home? The owners said that the dog was gentle and only attacked because it felt it's owner threaten, and made a big show to not have the dog put to sleep only to backtrack when the same dog and the other dogs in the home attacked grandma! lunawolf3, thanks to you people like this lady are giving more options to keep their dogs. You supported the move to save Congo by former assemblyman now child sex predator Neil Cohen to make it harder for the gov to get rid of clearly problematic dogs.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 3:18
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From my understanding, the majority of dogs (prue and muts) are breed for financial gain on puppy farms or dog farms - breed them, then get rid of them after 'x' amount of weeks from birth.
Most people want pups, so there wouldn't be too much time to work on their temperament.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 2:41
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good breeders will work on a specific temperament aside from just perfecting the look of the dog.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 2:14
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Jaah37 Wrote: Some dogs may be inherently dominant and/ or aggressive but it is not BREED dependent.


I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing about dog breeding, but this doesn't make logical sense to me.

If a dog is bred, for example, to be a guard dog, like a German Shepherd, won't that dog breed be more aggressive than one bred to, say, be a lap dog?

Posted on: 2009/1/23 2:11
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itsaurora wrote:
jaah, don't under estimate the role genetics play in a dog's temperament. while many dogs are simply the products of their environment, there are dogs that are born with aggressive temperaments.


Point taken itsaurora. Some dogs may be inherently dominant and/ or aggressive but it is not BREED dependent.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 2:02
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jaah, don't under estimate the role genetics play in a dog's temperament. while many dogs are simply the products of their environment, there are dogs that are born with aggressive temperaments.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 0:28
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What an old hag. She blamed passing snow plows on the attack and claimed that if the dogs wanted to they could've ripped his arms off.

Posted on: 2009/1/23 0:20
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jaah37 wrote:

No...it's clearly the owner. In some cases the DOG may have a medical problem that influences behavior, but the owner is the problem almost all of the time.


No it isn't clear! It is foolish to argue whether it is the "owner" or the "breed" - in cases like these it is clearly BOTH!


I respectfully disagree. Dogs are not born agressive or dominant. They develop these behaviors when owners do not take the time to or improperly correct their dogs. Each time a dog misbehaves their is a opportunity presented to correct and train the dog. If the owners correction is done out of anger the dog will become more frustrated and aggressive, if the correction is too passive the dog won't respect the owner and place themselves as the pack leader. Dogs want to be lead by their owners but if not done properly THEY will take the lead role. Owners must correct their dogs everytime a situation presents itself with calm-assertive energy, if too many opportunities are missed then obedience problems arise.
However ,I will agree with the fact that sometime owners and breeds can be mismatched. As in this unfortunate incident, 1 average size woman walking 2- 200lb (or whatever their weight was) dogs is not a good match. The woman and prob. alot of people for that matter prob couldn't handle them. So I ask, is that the dogs fault?

Posted on: 2009/1/22 23:49
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jaah37 wrote:

No...it's clearly the owner. In some cases the DOG may have a medical problem that influences behavior, but the owner is the problem almost all of the time.


No it isn't clear! It is foolish to argue whether it is the "owner" or the "breed" - in cases like these it is clearly BOTH!

Posted on: 2009/1/22 23:29
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What the heck is a person owning 2 huge dogs in JC anyway. Does she need them for protection, or own a chop shop or a garage or something. Why have vicious dogs in a confined apartment????? Animals are not like a disney movie. They need space and when the owners think, "well im a good person i can take care of them", then the animals flip because they have morans not training them and giving these large creatures space to roam. Im an animal lover and I know my Lab can turn and I give her a huge backyard. Morans, they have to get those dogs out of there and 3x's your our. By law the dogs have to be put down. they should have been put down the first time.


Giving your Lab a huge backyard so your dog doesn't "turn" is not enough to ensure a happy, healthy and well behaved dog.

In Nature: Dogs experience the world by walking. They have to earn food and water by migrating in search of it.

At Home: You can recreate this experience at home by taking your dog on a walk before providing food and water in the morning. It gives your dog three things vital to her happiness: 1) a chance to bond with you, the pack leader, 2) much-needed primal exercise, and 3) a "migration ritual" that offers a sense of purpose.

Dogs need new sights, sounds and smells.


Game. Set. Match.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 23:27
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whocarez wrote:
What the heck is a person owning 2 huge dogs in JC anyway. Does she need them for protection, or own a chop shop or a garage or something. Why have vicious dogs in a confined apartment????? Animals are not like a disney movie. They need space and when the owners think, "well im a good person i can take care of them", then the animals flip because they have morans not training them and giving these large creatures space to roam. Im an animal lover and I know my Lab can turn and I give her a huge backyard. Morans, they have to get those dogs out of there and 3x's your our. By law the dogs have to be put down. they should have been put down the first time.


Giving your Lab a huge backyard so your dog doesn't "turn" is not enough to ensure a happy, healthy and well behaved dog.

In Nature: Dogs experience the world by walking. They have to earn food and water by migrating in search of it.

At Home: You can recreate this experience at home by taking your dog on a walk before providing food and water in the morning. It gives your dog three things vital to her happiness: 1) a chance to bond with you, the pack leader, 2) much-needed primal exercise, and 3) a "migration ritual" that offers a sense of purpose.

Dogs need new sights, sounds and smells.



++++++1

Posted on: 2009/1/22 23:18
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whocarez wrote:
What the heck is a person owning 2 huge dogs in JC anyway. Does she need them for protection, or own a chop shop or a garage or something. Why have vicious dogs in a confined apartment????? Animals are not like a disney movie. They need space and when the owners think, "well im a good person i can take care of them", then the animals flip because they have morans not training them and giving these large creatures space to roam. Im an animal lover and I know my Lab can turn and I give her a huge backyard. Morans, they have to get those dogs out of there and 3x's your our. By law the dogs have to be put down. they should have been put down the first time.


Giving your Lab a huge backyard so your dog doesn't "turn" is not enough to ensure a happy, healthy and well behaved dog.

In Nature: Dogs experience the world by walking. They have to earn food and water by migrating in search of it.

At Home: You can recreate this experience at home by taking your dog on a walk before providing food and water in the morning. It gives your dog three things vital to her happiness: 1) a chance to bond with you, the pack leader, 2) much-needed primal exercise, and 3) a "migration ritual" that offers a sense of purpose.

Dogs need new sights, sounds and smells.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 22:55
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I think Moran is a reference to this:


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Posted on: 2009/1/22 22:42
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
Home away from home
Home away from home


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2007/10/11 3:28
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2023/1/15 1:13
From Leashless Glory.
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whocarez wrote:
What the heck is a person owning 2 huge dogs in JC anyway. Does she need them for protection, or own a chop shop or a garage or something. Why have vicious dogs in a confined apartment????? Animals are not like a disney movie. They need space and when the owners think, "well im a good person i can take care of them", then the animals flip because they have morans not training them and giving these large creatures space to roam. Im an animal lover and I know my Lab can turn and I give her a huge backyard. Morans, they have to get those dogs out of there and 3x's your our. By law the dogs have to be put down. they should have been put down the first time.


Moran? I thought her name was Kolb.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 22:36
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