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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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The reason I opt for Erie is that I have a slightly better chance of being succesful passing through the intersection by the east bound traffic, Holland Tunnel entrance. The Port Authority police are very lax ticketing drivers who "block the box".


I agree, the intersection of Marin and 12th is a mess, cars continually block the box and people turn right in the straight lane when they are not supposed to. I use Erie to avoid this intersection.

If costs are an issue and there is a high % of people breaking the law on Erie why doesn't further enforcement take care of both problems? The city gains money from speeding and parking tickets and residents feel comfortable with the prevention and the visual display of enforcement.

Also, I agree that speed bumps do cause issues with old homes. My old place rattles badly if trucks pass over small pot holes. I can't imagine how bad it would be if they went over large bumps.

Either way, I appreciate the effort Mr Fulop.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 18:55
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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StevenFulop wrote:
I appreciate the dialog and it?s a good thing it was posted. I think we would all acknowledge that there are more children in this area than ever before and the simple pedestrians should watch out argument is not a very strong one. Additionally, if we all acknowledge that speeding on Erie (and some of the other streets) as a cut through to the Holland Tunnel is an issue than the question is how to deal with it is the next logical progression with regards to dialog.

Per the suggestions that we have read so far cost is an issue with everything as DanL posted which will likely limit at this point

1) Pedestrian activated stoplights
2) Speed cameras
3) Curb Cuts just for downtown

On speed bumps specifically, DPW opposes them, but although it may seem absurd to have this standpoint there are valid reasons why they have this perspective including, liability, snow plows, ambulance routes, and DOT.

On the suggestions of additional street markings and enforcement, this is already done by the JCPD and PA with the result of what Erie and Manilla are today. Enforcement is one part of this but deterring the use for speeding to the Holland Tunnel in place of using Marin as intended is another.

If there are suggestions here that you have that are realistic from a cost standpoint and achieve the desired result I am certainly open to it thus the posting however, without those types of suggestions this may likely settle with stop signs on some corners or maybe all.

The number of e-mails, messages, feedback from the community groups, and complaints on this issue would lead me say that action should be taken thus the ordinance.
My perspective is solely that there is a practicality of the cost of a solution coupled with the reality of the speed/use of these streets today that needs to be addressed.

Steve


Can't these systems be self-supporting? Through greater targeted automated enforcement, we can increase the violations revenue long enough to pay for state of the art intersections. No?

Increase the fines to pay for safety measures and demand vehicular compliance!

And just because the city can't afford to install systems like this everywhere yet, doesn't mean we shouldn't start here. As some of the last streets heading into the tunnel, these are some of the most vital and most dangerous.

Like "LifeOfRiley" says, people use Erie for a reason. Marin is ridiculous. That's where the tourists drive. Fix the traffic patterns there before you try to divert more into it.

Also, thank you for engaging in this constructive discussion. Please don't take any negative comments personally. It's the internet, after all.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 18:53
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Driver's perspective : cut through to the Holland Tunnel is an issue
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Regarding vehicular traffic on Erie: I would be more inclined to travel north on Marin Blvd, instead of Erie to eventually turn left onto Rte 1/9, NJT extension to head west. Marin is a closer approach for me living downtown.

The reason I opt for Erie is that I have a slightly better chance of being succesful passing through the intersection by the east bound traffic, Holland Tunnel entrance. The Port Authority police are very lax ticketing drivers who "block the box".

Turning right onto Erie Street and driving down it is a bit treacherous, too. I attribute such to cars parking right up to the end of the curb and on frequent occasions enroaching the intersection. It creates a huge blind spot for both pedestrians and cautious drivers.

The JC Police should be enforcing the local speed limit and the NJ Parking Authority should be enforcing the NJ MV code which does not permit parking within x feet (10/15/25?) from an intersection.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 18:23
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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One easy thing to do is change the traffic light change pattern on erie and 6th. Right now it caters to erie street traffic.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 18:03
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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DanL wrote:

[...]If you want to speak at the next council meeting on this, since the ordinance was tabled after the public speaking on the ordinances was concluded, you need to contact the City Clerks office and sign up in advance to speak during the public speaking portion of the next meeting.

I believe the council will agree on this ordinance, but the problem will be with the Dept. of Engineering which has pretty much objected to all traffic calming measures in the past.




I just called Robert Byrne, City Clerks Office to speak and others should call this number to do the same for the next council meeting, Wed, April 9 @ 6PM.

Office of the City Clerk
280 Grove Street
Jersey City, NJ 07302
Telephone: (201) 547-5150
Hours: Monday through Friday 9:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M.
Robert Byrne, RMC, City Clerk
Sean J. Gallagher, RMC, Deputy City Clerk
Tolonda S. Griffin-Ross, Deputy City Clerk


"Members of the public wishing to speak are advised to contact the City Clerk prior to the meeting."

Due to the ongoing renovation of the Council chambers, all Council Meetings through June 11, 2008 will be held at the Frank R. Conwell Middle School (School #4), Theater/Auditorium, 107 Bright Street, between Jersey Ave & Varick St. Entrance through iron gates on left side, through glass doors and theater is on your left opposite the information desk.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 17:43
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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Quote:

StevenFulop wrote:

On speed bumps specifically, DPW opposes them, but although it may seem absurd to have this standpoint there are valid reasons why they have this perspective including, liability, snow plows, ambulance routes, and DOT.

Steve


Steve please ignore DPW, I really believe their reasons are a load of kakka. 1, if their was a liability issue then there would have been a class action law suit YEARS ago against some municipality that installed them. 2, there are thousands of cities across the north east that have speed bumps but no plow issues and 3, how much would time would really be lost by an ambulance that slowed down slightly for a bump? I mean really!

oh and by the way, I want to see a stop sign on Monmouth and Pavonia to stop the traffic on Monmouth going towards Hoboken. I had to wait for almost a dozen cars before I was able to cross the other day while walking down Pavonia towards Brunswick. Not one f'in driver would let me cross despite the sign instructing them to yield for pedestrians.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 17:28
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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tern wrote:
Quote:
You wait until the intersection is clear and then cross.


No, this is not how it works.

The law says you must yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. As you approach a crosswalk you must stop and yield to pedestrians wating to cross. Pedestrians should *not* have to wait for all the cars to pass and then cross.

Robin.


I understand yielding to peds in a crosswalk. I'm looking at it from a pedestrian's point of view. Just because a crosswalk is there doesn't mean you should just walk into the street with your head down (which happens all the time). Let's say the oncoming car is only a foot or two from entering the crosswalk, it doesn't matter how fast or slow they are going, they will not be able to stop in time. The law is not going to save you here. This is when common sense comes into play. Besides, how many people don't even bother to use the crosswalk...fines should be issued for jaywalking.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 17:12
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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I appreciate the dialog and it?s a good thing it was posted. I think we would all acknowledge that there are more children in this area than ever before and the simple pedestrians should watch out argument is not a very strong one. Additionally, if we all acknowledge that speeding on Erie (and some of the other streets) as a cut through to the Holland Tunnel is an issue than the question is how to deal with it is the next logical progression with regards to dialog.

Per the suggestions that we have read so far cost is an issue with everything as DanL posted which will likely limit at this point

1) Pedestrian activated stoplights
2) Speed cameras
3) Curb Cuts just for downtown

On speed bumps specifically, DPW opposes them, but although it may seem absurd to have this standpoint there are valid reasons why they have this perspective including, liability, snow plows, ambulance routes, and DOT.

On the suggestions of additional street markings and enforcement, this is already done by the JCPD and PA with the result of what Erie and Manilla are today. Enforcement is one part of this but deterring the use for speeding to the Holland Tunnel in place of using Marin as intended is another.

If there are suggestions here that you have that are realistic from a cost standpoint and achieve the desired result I am certainly open to it thus the posting however, without those types of suggestions this may likely settle with stop signs on some corners or maybe all.

The number of e-mails, messages, feedback from the community groups, and complaints on this issue would lead me say that action should be taken thus the ordinance.
My perspective is solely that there is a practicality of the cost of a solution coupled with the reality of the speed/use of these streets today that needs to be addressed.

Steve

Posted on: 2008/3/27 17:09
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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39:4-36. Driver to yield to pedestrian at crosswalk; exceptions; vehicles approaching stopped vehicle from rear; yield of right-of-way by pedestrian The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except at crosswalks when the movement of traffic is being regulated by police officers or traffic control signals, or where otherwise prohibited by municipal, county, or State regulation, and except where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided, but no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield. Nothing contained herein shall relieve a pedestrian from using due care for his safety.
Whenever any vehicle is stopped to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.

Every pedestrian upon a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

Nothing contained herein shall relieve a driver from the duty to exercise due care for the safety of any pedestrian upon a roadway.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 16:48
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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Quote:
You wait until the intersection is clear and then cross.


No, this is not how it works.

The law says you must yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk. As you approach a crosswalk you must stop and yield to pedestrians wating to cross. Pedestrians should *not* have to wait for all the cars to pass and then cross.

Robin.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 16:45
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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coronalime wrote:
Damn you, Steven! I rescind my nomination for your mayorship!
Just kidding, but this is seriously a bad idea.

This is a local, secret, efficient path out of Jersey City. Consider those of us who need to get places outside of JC. You'd be making us stop and go for a half mile or so. That's SO inefficient and bad for everyone. It's bad for mileage. It's bad for brakes. It's bad for noise. It's bad for time. It's bad for exhaust fumes. It's bad for asthma. It's bad for pedestrians. It's bad for everyone stopping and going suddenly and increasing the risk of accidents.

The answer is not stop-signs.


I couldn't agree more. Stopping at every intersection is ridiculous. I don't condone speeding through downtown, but at the same time I think pedestrians just need to start using the common sense they learned in 1st grade - look both ways before crossing! There is no excuse for the people that just stroll into the street while talking on their cell phones and listening to Ipods and expect the world to stop for them because they are crossing. You wait until the intersection is clear and then cross. I'm tired of dumbing down everything to compensate for people's stupidity.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 16:31
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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I also agree with no additional stop signs on Erie.

My proposal:

1) To stop speeding, setup routine speed traps on Erie. The city makes money and people will learn not to speed. We have existing laws to deal with this issue.

2) To deal with people wanting to cross or merge onto erie: Paint parking spot grids (as they do in Hoboken) all the way up and down Erie. If you park outside this boundary you will get a hefty ticket and/or a boot/tow.

My point is that we have laws on the books to deter behavior, they should be used effectively before adding new signs/laws.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 16:28
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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most people believe (based on an unscientific survey done by DCNA a few years ago) that the #1 and 2 problems are speeding and poor visability due to vehicles parked at the corners.

best solution is as said below, bump outs to physically prevent vehicles from parking too close to intersections and visually narrowing the street to slow traffic (also reduces crossing distance for pedestrians). They need to be low to the street to not imped large emergency vehicles. Since costly, intersections could be stripped.

I have found that the bricked cross walks at Erie and 8th, 9th and 10th, slow traffic and encourage vehicles to actually stop at the signs.

I also have problems with speed bumps for said reasons. An alternative to speed bumps are raised cross walks or intesections which are more gradual.

The councilman's initiative is a good start and probably least costly. I would add not only to repaint the no parking zones on curbs by intersections, but also stripe the no parking on the street.

ah Hoboken, remember when there were no stop signs at most intersections, one proceeded on faith only and visibility at corners is still horrible....

If you want to speak at the next council meeting on this, since the ordinance was tabled after the public speaking on the ordinances was concluded, you need to contact the City Clerks office and sign up in advance to speak during the public speaking portion of the next meeting.

I believe the council will agree on this ordinance, but the problem will be with the Dept. of Engineering which has pretty much objected to all traffic calming measures in the past.


Quote:

woowookid wrote:
putting in Stop signs will do little to deter people speeding on Erie. Rubber speed bumps (and I don't care what you say DPW they do it in Hoboken and it works fine) would be better and couple that with some g*d damn enforcement for a prolonged period and you might see a change. Bump out the curbs at the intersections and add speed bumps if you are serious about slowing the Erie Street madness.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 16:22
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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Damn you, Steven! I rescind my nomination for your mayorship!
Just kidding, but this is seriously a bad idea.

This is a local, secret, efficient path out of Jersey City. Consider those of us who need to get places outside of JC. You'd be making us stop and go for a half mile or so. That's SO inefficient and bad for everyone. It's bad for mileage. It's bad for brakes. It's bad for noise. It's bad for time. It's bad for exhaust fumes. It's bad for asthma. It's bad for pedestrians. It's bad for everyone stopping and going suddenly and increasing the risk of accidents.

The answer is not stop-signs. If you want to improve pedestrian safety, there are a myriad of better ways:

- Pedestrian activated stoplights
- Pylons or extended curbs to prevent parking on the corners and improving pedestrian visibility.
- Additional street markings demanding the right of way to pedestrians
- proper speed and yield enforcement by the JCPD
- speed cameras and radar
- and many other things

But NOT stop signs. You're thinking like it's 1908, not 2008. There are MUCH better solutions that don't turn it into ten blocks of stop-n-go traffic.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 16:11
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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Yes to more stop signs!

Thank you Steve.

Could we also post stop signs ( similar to those on Monmouth) by the pedestrian crosswalks on Marin near the Newport Mall entrances (9th and 10th Sts.)?

You take your life in your hands when you try to use the pedestrian crossings.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 15:52
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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I'd like to see something also done to slow traffic racing up and down the hill on Newark Avenue - maybe a few of these signs would help but with them the police/ traffic cops need to issue many tickets for running red lights.

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I do support all measures to slow or limit cars and buses cutting through all downtown streets to get to the Holland Tunnel but I think it must to be done in such a way so as not to just push the traffic just onto other streets downtown.

I think making Newark Avenue into a one way street from Brunswick on would go a long way to helping the Hamilton Park Area.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 15:44
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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What is the difference between Bloomfield Ave in Hoboken and Erie Street? Same kind of problems and brownstones and residents who would complain about noise, yet they have rubber speed bumps. DOT talks about liabilty? Check out the rest of the roads in town with their own reverse speed bumps - potholes. Let me get it straight ... let the roads fall apart and it is not a liability issue, but actually attempt to exert some control over speeders and it is a liability issue? The rubber speed bumps in Hoboken have been there for years. It is a crock that JC refuses to entertain the idea. Rubber speed bumps causing noise? Are you kidding me? I lived in Paulus Hook while they were doing "dynamic compaction" to prepare a construction site. I watched as things fell off of shelves and plaster cracked in my rental building (brownstone). The city sent out someone to measure the vibration and determined that it was not sufficient to stop the project or cause serious damage. Dropping a 40 ton weight to pound the ground does not cause a problem but a 2 ton car going over a rubber speed bump will be problematic? I appreciate your efforts Mr. Fulop, but I don't think even you are buying the crap that DOT is selling.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 15:35
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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I'd like to see some enforcement of the parking rules near crosswalks and intersections, Erie St and 1st, Bay, and 7th are particularly bad, wioth most of the offenders being policemen (private cars). The curb cuts seem to be the best option.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 15:20
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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I strongly agree some form of speed deterrent needs to be put in place on Erie. I would like to see the police statistics of car accidents and their severity on Erie versus other areas of downtown.

In the short term, put in those Speed Tracking contraptions and start ticketing these speed demons!

When is the next council meeting?

Posted on: 2008/3/27 15:13
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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Couple additional points per the posts.

Yes there are other intersections in downtown, (such as on Manilla) that have similar situations but we are hoping to start on Erie as that is probably the larger concern.

Speed bumps - this has been an issue on multiple fronts for the city as we have asked our Dept of Public Works which adamantly opposes them. Firstly, there is a liability issue that the DOT has explained. Our office has had conversations with the traffic dept in Hoboken and truthfully they have been fortunate up till now which they acknowledge. Secondly, speed bumps are problematic in a historic neighborhood where the vibrations can damage some of the older housing. Finally, most people who want speed bumps don?t want them in front of their houses because of the sound.

Steven Fulop

Posted on: 2008/3/27 15:08
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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putting in Stop signs will do little to deter people speeding on Erie. Rubber speed bumps (and I don't care what you say DPW they do it in Hoboken and it works fine) would be better and couple that with some g*d damn enforcement for a prolonged period and you might see a change. Bump out the curbs at the intersections and add speed bumps if you are serious about slowing the Erie Street madness.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 14:58
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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These signs are clearly necessary as I mentioned on my site in January. (with photo goodness of cars running down fences, into houses).

Posted on: 2008/3/27 14:55
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Re: Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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I have never heard of a police department opposing a traffic calming measure! "Not needed"!

WHere a stop sign is needed most is on Manilla at 8th street. That junction is dangerous as the parked cars mean it is very difficult to see the traffic speeding along Manilla, you must slowly ease forward in your car until you can see, and then a car will invariably come speeding towards you.

Robin.

Posted on: 2008/3/27 14:49
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Stop Signs on Erie Street - Steven FUlop
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At the next City Council meeting the council will un-table an ordinance that I sponsored to put stop signs all along Erie Street in order to slow the cut through traffic headed the Holland Tunnel.

The ordinance was tabled last night as the police department and Director of Public Works have expressed that they don't feel slowing the traffic on Erie Street as a cut through is necessary. Personally, I couldn?t disagree with their opinion more and view Erie Street as just a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt. The traffic moves far too quickly on Erie and it was never intended for its current use as a cut through street for people headed to the Holland Tunnel.

If this issue is of interest to you on either side of the discussion, I would urge you to attend the council meeting in two weeks and speak on this ordinance.

Sincerely,
Steven Fulop
Councilman Ward ?E?

Posted on: 2008/3/27 14:44
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