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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Home away from home
 
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So when the governor of SC (local government) starts saying we should get rid of that crappy flag already, it's a sign that people are starting to wake up. It took a mass murdering, race war waging clown to wake them up but I guess there is hope for SC yet.
Yeah, it's a local government issue so they will drag their feet because of their own stubbornness so I can't really blame people for burning the flag in the meantime.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 17:05
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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That sounds really nice, but we don't have one government. We have a federal government, 50 state governments (plus territorial governments), plus countless local including county and municipal. They ultimately represent very different constituencies as the U.S. doesn't have anything close to an electorate that has an homogeneity to it whatsoever. With no common culture, religion, ethnicity, history - America is very different from most other countries (in other words, I know what a Frenchman is, but wtf is an American beyond a citizenship document?). The outcome of that is that you will have some parts of the country that will decide that they want to plant a flag on their government building that is blatantly offensive to other parts of the country.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 16:49
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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First off, I got no qualms about people burning symbols, that's their personal right, but it is absolutely idiotic for any of our government to keep these idiotic symbols still flying around their buildings. I don't see Germany still waving the Nazi banner in theirs, do you? As for the ISIS flag, well, our military tries to do its best to demolish buildings that have them.
As some sensible people have said, if you want to 'celebrate' this shameful part of American heritage and history, go see it in a museum. Those should be the only public buildings the Confederacy should be remembered as perhaps a cautionary tale.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 16:40
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Debating the merits of this stuff is fairly pointless. You either can or you can't burn crap. You don't get to declare sacred cows - they absolutely can burn a Koran. Maybe because they hate Islam and Muslims, which they have the right to do. Or maybe just because it will infuriate their target audience significantly more than burning an ISIS flag would, thereby making it more effective. And yeah, celebrating the Confederacy, which lost and ended up with their country burned to the ground, isn't exactly sensible from many points of view but plenty of people love to celebrate a crappy heritage. Jewish history is basically a 5000 year run that rivals the Detroit Tigers for win-loss records, for example. And the American Indians live in tiny reservations on areas that all used to be theirs. For that matter the Irish don't exactly have a star studded history. I could go on. But I don't think we're in a place where we get to dictate that you can only support the military winners of history.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 16:22
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Since when did burning Nazi crap become so controversial? It's about 60 years too late to get so agitated about white pride, same thing with the Confederacy. What so great about reminding yourself of being a loser, which is what the Confederates were? A bunch of losers who couldn't let go of slavery. These things are better off buried and not influence some punk into starting a race war.
Burning a Koran? How about you burn an ISIS flag instead. You'll get the same warm feelings, trust me.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 16:09
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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I'll play. Both are symbols of a given group of people that are being targeted by those burning it. The Confederate Flag represents Southern rednecks that hold dear the Confederate heritage of the South. The Koran represents Muslims, particularly religious ones that will be PO'ed by seeing Korans burned. Either way, the result is the same - you antagonize a group you dislike, for whatever reason. By the way, I don't see how there isn't an obvious answer here: you can burn whatever you want on your property as long as it is within local ordinance (the fire doesn't present a danger to neighbors, etc.). Burn American flags, Confederate flags, rainbow colored flags, Korans, Bibles, whatever. On public property no one should be burning anything. I don't see the sense of any content based regulation, where we determine that burning some symbols is "ok" because we "don't like them" but others are not because we're "suppose to like them" or whatever. That makes certain things thought crime.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 15:52
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Your ancestors sounds like pure trash to me, nothing to be proud of.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 11:52
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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There's an old adage: you get what you pay for.
If you want to pay less then you live with those that can only afford to pay less. If you want to live with those that can afford to pay more, you pay more. Lower Millburn's taxes and you'll see the type of element that lives there. Quote:
Either you can do it or you can't. I've now asked three times. Seems to me that you can't actually make the comparison or you'd have done it already...
Posted on: 2015/7/1 11:48
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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You are simply whinging about a problem that you help perpetuate. Give people real opportunities for mobility and a lot of this goes away - and might even lower your taxes. You have to weigh that against the horror of having poor folks move into your communities...OMG. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-ec ... lity_in_the_United_States
Posted on: 2015/7/1 11:33
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Just can't stay away
 
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I read an interesting analysis of the assimilation of white European immigrants in contrast to the treatment of native born African-Americans in "The Condemnation of Blackness" . The author gives an abstract of some of the ideas in the work here. It's specifically insightful about the origins of the views on black vs. white criminality and how these inform access to social programs, education, employment, housing and other opportunities.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 22:54
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Yup, when you pay the freight, you have the right to talk about it. When your hand is out, like JC taxpayers getting half a billion dollars a year in free school money, not so much.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 22:24
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They pay because they have to - and it keeps affordable housing out of their towns. And we never hear the end of it from the likes of you...
Posted on: 2015/6/30 22:09
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If I have to explain to you the similarity in motives between those who want to burn the Confederate Flag and those that enjoy burning the Koran then you are dimmer than I thought. You're really in over your head here.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:58
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Nope. Who do you think is paying for the Abbott schools across NJ, and within Essex County, who are paying out the wazoo to support Newark and East Orange and Orange? Millburn/Short Hills taxpayers. They're paying their fair share and more. It's why they pay more taxes than anywhere in the USA.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:57
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And I'm asking you to explain how they are remotely similar. Go on. Give it a try...
Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:50
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Nice article. I also liked this on the same site. http://www.alternet.org/economy/rich- ... st-1s-vile-new-war-us-all Wealth, it?s worth noting, isn?t the enemy. The problem is the attitude of the wealthy, the contempt, the indifference, and the lack of anything resembling civic virtue. To be rich is no crime. To abuse privilege, to profit at the expense of others, is quite another thing ? and it?s all too common these days. Describes Millburn pretty well.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:42
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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On that note, I?m willing to bet your Italian heritage has closed as many doors to you as mine has for me. On the other hand, millions of people whose ancestors were part of this land before it was even a country?centuries before the Catholics arrived?still suffer from discrimination. Any idea why?
Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:17
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So glad I left this site a long time ago. It's just become very hateful and racist. sad.
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberti ... le-who-use-it-racial-slur
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:57
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You already humor me with you misreading my post and interpreting me as saying that the Koran is the same as the Confederate Flag. What I said was that people burn the Koran for reasons that are similar to the reasons that they are now burning the Confederate Flag.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:50
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Affordable housing in Millburn? I'm not sure, I'd imagine if anyone wants to pull themselves up by their bootstraps they could do what my grandparents did-raise 12 kids in an apartment above a retail store downtown-with no welfare or Section 8 support, while not speaking English. And trust me, immigrant Italians weren't welcome in Millburn/Short Hills in the early 1900's.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:23
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Please, humor me with the reasons that the Koran is the same as the Confederate Flag; a flag that was borne and existed solely as an expression of states that didn't want to lose slavery...
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:12
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Dos A Cero
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I wouldn't be opposed to a group collecting Nazi and Confederate flags and burning them, but to purchase them and then burn is just putting money in the pockets of people selling those items.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:12
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It's so sad how many people around here completely agree with people making a spectacle of themselves by burning the Confederate Flag and at the same time would be the first to criticize somebody who wanted make a spectacle of burning the Koran for similar reasons. Just dumb, dumb, dumb.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:01
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Monroe, like JCMan8 and the other conservative Republicans on this site may not be horrible human beings - with any luck I will never meet them and have to find out - but he brings this on himself for by comparing the odious history of slavery and white supremacy (which is what the Confederate flag embodies http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a ... ruel-war-was-over/396482/) to the ongoing tragedy of life in poor inner city neighborhoods. Better scholars than I have explored the lingering effects of slavery, Jim Crow, and racism on modern black America, and his and other conservatives attempts to deflect attention from the root causes of these problems - and the lingering taint of racism evidenced by those who support flying this travesty of "heritage" - shows a total lack of historic perspective, empathy, and basic human kindness.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 18:11
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I don't see the point of bringing up gang violence in relation to a story about people burning symbols of ignorant hate but saying he's a "horrible human being" is not remotely true.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 13:56
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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I will say that I find it INCREDIBLY BAFFLING that the situation in Chicago is barely discussed in the media. Notwithstanding the efforts of some here (and, elsewhere) to spin it away, the crime is out of control over there. The good news? The crime rate for 2015 (so far) has kept pace with 2014 and doesn't seem significantly different or higher at this point. The bad part? They are on track for another 450 homicides in 2015. By far, most of it is "black on black" (68% of attackers and 78% of victims, in 2014, with 72% and 78%, respectively, for 2015) but I leave it to others to dissect those stats and reach their own conclusions. I do think it is hypocritical of "activists" and "community leaders" to ignore that issue in favor of the splashier themes that have dominated the news cycles lately.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 13:31
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Let's ignore racism because "blacks kill blacks" is the absurdity. It's like saying "let's ignore racism because heart disease is a bigger killer". And blaming the current generation for segregation is entirely valid - particularly when the ignorant of this generation points to a problem and fails to acknowledge the elephant in the room. http://www.epi.org/publication/modern-segregation/
Posted on: 2015/6/29 13:31
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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It seems the true deflection is to ignore that what Monroe is saying is actually true. Obviously a mental patient with a gun is a problem in this country, but everyone ignores that there is a real problem with gang violence that literally no one wants to address, because its not an easy fix. And to blame all of our current generation for segregation of blacks and lack of education is simply ridiculous.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 12:55
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Typical absurd deflection - guess it's part of your Fox talking points script. Why not beat on other causes of death like heart disease and suicide while you're at it? http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm And you have directly supported the endemic of black-on-black violence - with generations of segregation, sub-standard education, targeted criminalization, incarceration and turning prisons into gang recruitment factories. Where's the affordable housing in Milburn?
Posted on: 2015/6/29 12:30
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Re: Burning the Confederate and Nazi banners in bustling Journal Square...
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Hey, did they also burn all those Che Guevara T-shirts? You know, the guy butchered his political opponents in the La Cabana prison. Was regular Himmler that one.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 4:29
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