Bill463 wrote:
I heard Wegmans will be here soon!

So, I don't know where you got this idea that TJs is overpriced. Again SR has a good selection, but not the best prices or quality. Also, who cannot praise the fresh smile of every SR check out clerk as s/he pleasantly packs your bag and sends you on your way.

Xerxes wrote:
If I had a choice betweeen two stores to be near my home: one, the Shop-Rite on Marin and the other the Trader Joe's on 14th (magically whisked into the BJ's lot) it would not take me a SECOND to realize the Shop-Rite is the better choice.

Also, if the Marin Shop-Rite was magically transported to 14th and Irving Place, both Trader Joe's AND Whole Foods would be driven out of business.

Manhattanites shop in these tediously overpriced, overcrowded stores only because they MUST and their other choices are ugly bodega-types like C-Town. (Anyone who thinks Trader Joe's produce looks good must spend time in a dumpster.)
And for gorgeous produce, and it truly is, anyone who can spend $40 a pound for morels at Whole Foods is NOT living on Third and Coles.

So many people on this board are fond of market driven economic decisions but when it comes to a simple food store, economic considerations magically disappear. The reason the Shop Rite will crucify all comers is that it MUST...it is the perfect store for the perfect place at the perfect price level, and suits the demographics perfectly. Yesterday morning, there were 17 out of a possible 21 cashiers open at SR busy ringing up orders. MW usually has 2, A&P 1 or 2 (and the auto check outs.)

That we HAVE a Shop-Rite I consider pure serendipity. Before they opened I had to drive to either Kennedy Boulevard (new A&P) or to ShopRite Columbia Park. Both good stores but a schlepp.

When I go, I will miss 2 things badly: the Waterfront Walkway and the easy walk to the superb Shop-Rite.

Crazy_Chester wrote:
What if we all click our heels together and repeat "There's no place like Trader Joe's"???

Xerxes wrote:
I have never seen an area so awash with good grocery stores.

It was a lot easier when I set up my lemonade stand.

matchjames wrote:
Quote:

hamiltonparkjc wrote:
I love all these anecdotal opinions that people just KNOW and yet they can't figure out word wrap or the quote function.

M3 Maps has does a very good 2 part study of Trader Joes locations based in the Philly area.

Basic finds are:

Ingredient 1: Highway Accessibility in or near Urban Areas
Ingredient 2: Zip Code Populations > 6000 people
Ingredient 3: Population Density > 700 people / square mile
Ingredient 4: Median Income Zones between $30K and $150K
Ingredient 5: Top 40% of Income Quintiles

Regardless of the C-Town location, I'd say Downtown scores exceedingly well on all those criteria.

http://www.jordansilberman.com/m3maps/portfolio/trader_joes_1.htm

So it needs to be on Earth, essentially. "In or near". 6000 people in a zip is likely every zip in NJ. A income zone with a spread of 30 to 150K? So very little to 5 times very little? This isn't their criteria, it's someone's interpretation of their existing stores modeled into where they MIGHT go next (as I'm sure you know). I work in commercial RE, I can just say anecdotally they're not just fickle, they're VERY fickle, and economics (as mentioned before) is a huge component of the deal as well. That said, even if we did meet all those "Ingredients", if it we're a single digit rent deal, it still wouldn't happen.

T-Bird wrote:
Quote:

Tash wrote:
I think you are mixing up Aldi fund with Aldi corporation.

No. Not mixed up. From a recent Fortune article:

"Few customers realize the chain is owned by Germany's ultra-private Albrecht family, the people behind the Aldi Nord supermarket empire. (A different branch of the family controls Aldi S?d, parent of the U.S. Aldi grocery chain.)"

I didn't say there was a parent subsidiary relationship between Aldi and Trader Joe's. (I think someone earlier in the thread said that.) I said the Albrechts own both (the European Aldi's - the original Aldi's - and TJs.) At the end of the day, who cares what kind of corporate shell game is played? The people are the same.

The article: http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/20/news/ ... oes_full_version.fortune/

Amy wrote:
You know all that warehouse-y stuff/empty lots right between JC and Hoboken and just next to the Holland Tunnel approach? You know, Coles St going toward Hoboken? That's where you put your Trader Joe's. You get parking; you get customers from JC and Hoboken, as well as commuters; you get plenty of space.You also get huge traffic jams, but ...

Anyway, I don't know if that area is supposed to be developed or not, but it might be a good location.

Tash wrote:
I think you are mixing up Aldi fund with Aldi corporation.

T-Bird wrote:
Quote:

Tash wrote:
Trader Joe's has no corporate relationship to Aldi, it shares a trust with the company i.e. family fund FYI

They are owned and operated by the same family. There is certainly a "relationship" there. The family sets the strategic path for both. It's a lot more intimate than if, say, Fidelity owned big stakes in both.

hamiltonparkjc wrote:
I love all these anecdotal opinions that people just KNOW and yet they can't figure out word wrap or the quote function.

M3 Maps has does a very good 2 part study of Trader Joes locations based in the Philly area.

Basic finds are:

Ingredient 1: Highway Accessibility in or near Urban Areas
Ingredient 2: Zip Code Populations > 6000 people
Ingredient 3: Population Density > 700 people / square mile
Ingredient 4: Median Income Zones between $30K and $150K
Ingredient 5: Top 40% of Income Quintiles

Regardless of the C-Town location, I'd say Downtown scores exceedingly well on all those criteria.

http://www.jordansilberman.com/m3maps/portfolio/trader_joes_1.htm

Tash wrote:
Trader Joe's has no corporate relationship to Aldi, it shares a trust with the company i.e. family fund FYI

matchjames wrote:
Quote:

Scottacus wrote:
Quote:

matchjames wrote:

You know you bring up an excellent point I'd forgotten about... with A&P/Pathmark in a serious world of hurt right now (bankruptcy is eminent) it wouldn't surprise me to see TJ's THINK about where A&P is now as it would have the parking AND have much easier access to Hoboken AND whoever in Downtown JC wants it.

I could see that, although the A&P is much larger than a typical Trader Joes. I would even more likely see them giving up the small A&P in Hoboken, which has limited parking and seems smaller than a "real" supermarket should be. Also, if a developer offers a sufficiently good deal on a lease as a way to attract apartment tenants (or condo buyers) TJs might be persuaded to consider a JC or Hoboken location. TJs has done that in other cities in the Northeast.

In the end what matters most to TJs -- in all things -- is cost. They are notoriously cost-sensitive, and that extends to their site selection strategy. When they find a location that meets their needs and is adequately inexpensive, they may choose to put a store in the JC or Hoboken area.

Also, given their focus on keeping down distribution costs, the more stores they have in an area, the more likely they are to open others, as for them the cost of operating a store is lower when there are many other locations in the same area (as distribution center costs can be amortized over more locations and the same delivery trucks can serve multiple stores). That's why there are so many TJs in California and Massachusetts - many far closer together than downtown JC/Hoboken is from Edgewater.

And for those who talk about TJ's vs Whole Foods opening in JC -- the logic for site selection between Trader Joe's and Whole Foods is very different. Since Whole Foods doesn't have anywhere near as much a focus on efficient distribution, they are more likely to open a single store in a metro area before TJs. But TJs tends to be willing to have more stores closer together (as long as they get a good deal on rent). And TJs tends to look much more at specific behavioral patterns vs broad demographics when siting stores.

All VERY valid and true. And one important thing you bring up (COST) is what would keep them OUT of that A&P Center.. Simon isn't giving anything away, and TJ's is NOTORIOUSLY cheap (as is their parent company Aldi). (subdividing the A&P for a smaller tenant isn't a big deal the landlords do that all the time)


you DID know Aldi owns TJ's didn't you all?

Tash wrote:
[quote]


No I understand what you are talking about, but TJ's has a fan base that WILL walk the distance. Did you see the insanity when it opened on 14th? People took path from JC to go there. I think you are underestimating TJ's fan base in JC. And don't call it a chain, it is a very successful PRIVATELY owned company it doesn't compare to ANY grocery chains. IF the store traffic is so dependent on whether there are parking spots or not, I am sure TJ's management can make a decision to buy that funeral home across the street and level it into a lot (although I want it to become a vampire night club, but I digest)

ECH wrote:
Most of you lovelies who are chock full of opinions on what
should become of CTown should realize that the
building and lot lie smack dab in the middle of a
city, state and federal historic district, and thus
the property is
restricted to some very tight redevelopment controls.

The folks who live here and take historic district
status seriously will be on the lookout for what
is planned on that site.

So many ridiculous and redundant rehabs
and condo conversions and new constructions
have gone on here in the past few years,
skirting the proper channels via who knows
what nefarious means, that adding the CTown
Condos to the list is just not gonna happen.
Leave well enuf alone.
If CTown does not meet your elite shopping
standards, then go somewhere else.
The new Trader Joe on 23rd St, would love
to have your business. Put your money
where your mouths are, big spenders.

Xerxes wrote:
The C-Town site will best be turned into a parking garage.