JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: New Tax Rate is Insane! [Real Estate]

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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ILRie wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out- is it possible that 100% of the value of the abatements goes to the city, and then the city needs to make a separate payment, calculated as 5% of that, to the county?
It sounds weirdly convoluted to me but if it resulted from a settlement from a lawsuit... anything's possible, I guess. (And isn't that basically 95/5 when it comes right down to it? Like, 100 out of 105 is 95.2%?)

This why Yvonne is continually mocked, she attends meetings and calls officials, but is unable to actually understand numbers. most of us can instantly see that 95-5 or 100-5 comes out the same no matter what you call it.

This. All the brouhaha over the numbers is simply a distraction. Even if her contention is right (which I seriously doubt) 5 out of 105 works out to 4.8%.

So instead of reaching out to the city law department or calling the city clerk for the ordinance, it is easier to mock me. It is easy to mock anyone when you hide behind phony names. I challenge anyone of you to attend the next council meeting and ask any city attorney the break down of JC tax abatements. I stand by what I said.

Posted on: 2018/3/22 21:23

bodhipooh

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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brewster wrote:
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ILRie wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out- is it possible that 100% of the value of the abatements goes to the city, and then the city needs to make a separate payment, calculated as 5% of that, to the county?
It sounds weirdly convoluted to me but if it resulted from a settlement from a lawsuit... anything's possible, I guess. (And isn't that basically 95/5 when it comes right down to it? Like, 100 out of 105 is 95.2%?)

This why Yvonne is continually mocked, she attends meetings and calls officials, but is unable to actually understand numbers. most of us can instantly see that 95-5 or 100-5 comes out the same no matter what you call it.

This. All the brouhaha over the numbers is simply a distraction. Even if her contention is right (which I seriously doubt) 5 out of 105 works out to 4.8%.

Posted on: 2018/3/22 18:56

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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ILRie wrote:
I'm trying to figure this out- is it possible that 100% of the value of the abatements goes to the city, and then the city needs to make a separate payment, calculated as 5% of that, to the county?
It sounds weirdly convoluted to me but if it resulted from a settlement from a lawsuit... anything's possible, I guess. (And isn't that basically 95/5 when it comes right down to it? Like, 100 out of 105 is 95.2%?)

This why Yvonne is continually mocked, she attends meetings and calls officials, but is unable to actually understand numbers. most of us can instantly see that 95-5 or 100-5 comes out the same no matter what you call it.

Posted on: 2018/3/22 18:22

ILRie

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.

LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?

I'm trying to figure this out- is it possible that 100% of the value of the abatements goes to the city, and then the city needs to make a separate payment, calculated as 5% of that, to the county?
It sounds weirdly convoluted to me but if it resulted from a settlement from a lawsuit... anything's possible, I guess. (And isn't that basically 95/5 when it comes right down to it? Like, 100 out of 105 is 95.2%?)

https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jerse ... rt/2003/02464-98-opn.html
From what I can make out:
- in 1987, Secaucus Township filed appeals on a bunch of abated lots owned by development companies in Newport.
- in a 1989 settlement agreement, the development companies paid Secaucus $165,000 in return for getting the appeals dismissed in tax court
- in 2003, for whatever reason Jersey City tried to get the payment back but the court upheld the settlement and said Secaucus could keep it

...so maybe it's not the city needs to make a separate 5% payment like I was speculating, but the party with the tax abatement? Or maybe just the specific party that was part of the settlement agreement in 1989 with Secaucus? Or maybe it's irrelevant because Secaucus Township and Hudson County are two different entities?

I don't know. I don't have enough caffeine in my system for this.

http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... --other-towns-may-join-in

Posted on: 2018/3/22 15:19

hero69

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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wow. you get mail at ~8:30am. i thought mail delivery didn't start until 4pmQuote:

user1111 wrote:
Just received my letter, my taxes went from $6,100.00 to $4,500.00. We Greenvillians have been overpaying for too long.

Posted on: 2018/3/22 13:19

user1111

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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Just received my letter, my taxes went from $6,100.00 to $4,500.00. We Greenvillians have been overpaying for too long.

Posted on: 2018/3/22 12:31

http://googleitbitch.com/

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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Yvonne wrote:
The problem, Brewster, you pretend you know everything, but you do not sit down with the people who make the budgets and create the ordinances. I have been doing this since the 1970s, I have attended more budget hearing at the county and local level than I care to admit.

Yvonne, you can put the NY Times under a bird cage for 20 years, and Polly will still not be able to give you a coherent explanation of local politics.

Brewster, your pride is wounded. So now you go into personal attacks. Stay with the subject and do you homework before you speak. I still suggest you call city hall and ask them about the 105% on tax abatements.

Posted on: 2018/3/18 20:45

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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Yvonne wrote:
The problem, Brewster, you pretend you know everything, but you do not sit down with the people who make the budgets and create the ordinances. I have been doing this since the 1970s, I have attended more budget hearing at the county and local level than I care to admit.

Yvonne, you can put the NY Times under a bird cage for 20 years, and Polly will still not be able to give you a coherent explanation of local politics.

Posted on: 2018/3/18 18:16

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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MDM wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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My take is that much of the rise in JC, especially the Heights, is fueled by demographic change not just market fluctuation.

Unfortunately, we will be fully gentrified with 2 family homes complete with butt-ugly pink faux-brick.

I have two more under construction near me.

Yeah, I wish I knew the answer to that problem. I'm not even certain if we got the R-1 changes we wish for that we wouldn't simply get taller Bayonne Boxes, since given how cheaply constructed they are the developers can probably outbid anyone else for the property.

Posted on: 2018/3/18 17:58

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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brewster wrote:
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My take is that much of the rise in JC, especially the Heights, is fueled by demographic change not just market fluctuation.

Unfortunately, we will be fully gentrified with 2 family homes complete with butt-ugly pink faux-brick.

I have two more under construction near me.

Posted on: 2018/3/18 16:48

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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MDM wrote:
I've had a back and forth with the wife about cancelling further capital improvements and just selling everything, except the place we live in.

My concern that this might be the mother of all bubbles and prices like this won't be seen again. Sort of like selling Dot.Com stocks when the NASDAQ was pushing 5,000.

I hear you. Surely you wondered the same thing in 2007, right? We hung in there then. My take is that much of the rise in JC, especially the Heights, is fueled by demographic change not just market fluctuation. If we were talking about a suburb like Teaneck where the same population who were there 20 years ago are still there, yeah. But it's hard to foresee de-gentrification at this point.

I'm in this for the long term rents, that's my retirement. We'll have everything paid off before I'm 65. Those Nasdaq stocks weren't paying dividends, at least not to compare to the rents.

Posted on: 2018/3/18 15:59

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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brewster wrote:

MDM: the GRMs have been out of control for a while. Think about all these condos people are purchasing to rent out at purchase multiples well over 20 times yearly rents. Our 2012 Heights 4U purchase had a GRM of 7, and those rents were low.

I've had a back and forth with the wife about cancelling further capital improvements and just selling everything, except the place we live in.

My concern that this might be the mother of all bubbles and prices like this won't be seen again. Sort of like selling Dot.Com stocks when the NASDAQ was pushing 5,000.

Posted on: 2018/3/18 15:26

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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So I got property #3. Savings about $1,700.

So overall, I got a modest decrease. I'll take it....

Posted on: 2018/3/18 15:19

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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The problem, Brewster, you pretend you know everything, but you do not sit down with the people who make the budgets and create the ordinances. I have been doing this since the 1970s, I have attended more budget hearing at the county and local level than I care to admit.

Posted on: 2018/3/17 22:35

JCGuys

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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MDM wrote:
The one thing about these appraised values:

If I bought either of these two buildings at the appraised price, I would be cash flow negative. No way the rents would cover, even at lower interest rates.

Something tells me at some point in the future, we will see the mother of price deflation when it comes to real estate.

History may prove you right MDM...

Posted on: 2018/3/17 20:56

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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Yvonne I'm sure somebody told you some numbers, it's your ability to understand those numbers that is in doubt.

MDM: the GRMs have been out of control for a while. Think about all these condos people are purchasing to rent out at purchase multiples well over 20 times yearly rents. Our 2012 Heights 4U purchase had a GRM of 7, and those rents were low.

Posted on: 2018/3/17 20:15

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.

LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?

Haven't you been paying attention? Yvonne is arithmetically impaired.

Just when you thought Yvonne couldn't get any kookier... This reminds me of the time someone tried to argue with me that 25% was not the same as dividing by four. Some people just don't understand numbers.

Brewster, do yourself a favor and call the legal department and speak to someone on JC tax abatements, if that is too complicated, then ask the city clerk for a copy of the ordinance that was passed probably around the year 2000, which fixed the tax abatement agreements. I know you think you are smart but smart people research the facts, they don't mouth off on things they are clueless to. I stand by what I say because I personally talked to the former mayor of Secaucus when this came up. He actually asked me for a copy of JC tax abatements at a freeholder meeting when he came to blast the freeholders on Secaucus county increase. Secaucus used on the tax abatement agreement JC had with Tropicana in Greenville. Secaucus has similar types of operations that receive no tax abatements.

Posted on: 2018/3/17 18:31

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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The one thing about these appraised values:

If I bought either of these two buildings at the appraised price, I would be cash flow negative. No way the rents would cover, even at lower interest rates.

Something tells me at some point in the future, we will see the mother of price deflation when it comes to real estate.

Posted on: 2018/3/17 18:07

Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!

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I got my Palisade letter too: a $2k increase from $8k. What's fishy is I successfully appealed this property in 2015. If it was correctly assessed then, then they're saying it's gone up 20% faster than the city as a whole in just those 3 years? Seems very unlikely, but I'm sure they'll just say: show us the comps" rather than have to justify their timeline.

Posted on: 2018/3/17 15:48