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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
 
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Good point about the equalization rate. Back in 2002 I was looking to buy a newly renovated garden level condo. Since I did not trust the realtor regarding what the new taxes would be I went to city and spoke to the assessors office. When i asked I was never told of the equalization rate just given the tax rate. Since this made the taxes unaffordable I walked away from the deal. He really f'd me over.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 22:51
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Home away from home
Joined:
2007/1/11 21:47 Last Login : 2022/7/25 21:48 From Van Vorst Park area
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What Dolomiti said. All of these factors were drivers of price increases.
The reval may not be perfect, but it looks like it's producing results that are less unfair than before. Quote:
Posted on: 2018/3/7 18:45
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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That's like saying the city should remove every single traffic light, and make it the responsibility of individual drivers to know when to safely proceed at intersections. It is not the responsibility of tens of thousands of JC residents to fix a systemic refusal by the city to uphold its legal responsibilities. Appealing one's property taxes is not the most difficult thing in the world. However, tens of thousands of property owners have no idea how it works, or that it's a viable option at all. Individual appeals also does not fix the situation where tens of thousands of property owners, whose properties have increased in value and are underassessed, are underpaying their taxes. Unfair imbalances in property tax assessments is not the fault of individuals who are issued incorrect assessments. This is the responsibility of the politicians who are refusing to uphold their legal responsibilities, along with the citizens who encourage them.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 14:41
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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This is my understanding. Hopefully, I won't get anything wildly wrong. ;) Appeals are based on the claim that the city's assessment is too high. You have to prove them wrong, usually by providing 3-5 recent comparable sales. Alternately you can provide an appraisal, but in that case the appraiser must be available to testify. You only get an adjustment if the city's assessment is off by more than 15%. My impression is that usually, if you're out of that 15% range, you'll get something. You can file yourself, it isn't terribly expensive or time-consuming. I have no idea if using an attorney increases your chances of success, or what happens if you appeal year after year. You can't refer to the taxes other people are paying as part of the appeal process. All they care about are comps and/or an appraisal. So: Let's say you bought your home in 2000, and your old tax bill was $10k. The city assesses your property in 2017 at $2,000,000 which means your new tax bill is around $32k. Ouch. In order to successfully appeal, you must believe that either the city's 2017 assessment had to be off by more than 15%, or the value of your property immediately dropped more than 15%, or some combo thereof. Then, you have to be able to prove it with comparable sales. Let's say that by fall 2018, the market crashes by 25%. You pull together comps that show the value at $1,500,000 and you get a full adjustment. Your new tax bill is $24k. Is that numbery enough for you? ;)
Posted on: 2018/3/7 14:34
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Home away from home
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You are 100% correct! People who believe their property taxes are unfair should appeal. If they don't, they have only themselves to hold responsible. Thanks for picking up my typo - 1988 not 1998. 1988 being 30 years ago.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 11:35
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Home away from home
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I agree with you 100% that much of this is deliberately confusing and playing games with the data they give you. They're still doing it by withholding the separated land and Improvement values from the Excel file.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 6:28
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Home away from home
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There's also a deliberate (imo) policy of issuing confusing tax bills. Nowhere on the property card shows the equalization rate nor the implied property value. And they make the process of appealing as complex as possible. Most people didn't know they were getting ripped off.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 5:18
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Home away from home
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They could appeal down to the correct assessment, but those DT paying less than half that effective rate would still be subsidised, and the overall rate would have to go up to make up the difference. This is why revals should be regular, not a political football. It's hysterical and sad that Yvonne's takeaway from the traumatic 88 reval was not that they should be regular, but that they need to be kicked down the road, and she did her best to achieve that.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 4:21
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Just can't stay away
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It feels like some folks downtown simply won?t accept or appreciate that they had a sweetheart deal for decades and that other people in less fortunate circumstances (whatever their incomes, their property values were not rising at the rate downtown was) were making downtown?s low property taxes possible by making up the shortfall.
As for appealing, my understanding is that one can not use someone underpaying as the basis for a reduction, so what would the argument be for their appeal? Please don?t knee jerk respond. Really think it through with numbers.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 2:49
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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What cracks me up is both DTJC and residents of other wards arguing over people paying their 'fair share', while being supported by suburban taxpayers to the tune of $500 million a year to support JC schools.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 2:21
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Home away from home
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Except that you didn't correct anything. You just stated your opinion on the matter
Posted on: 2018/3/7 1:26
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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sigh Show me where I accused you personally of complaining about the tax increase. If you are not in that elite group, then the worst thing I did to you was correct your claims about the effects of low property taxes on JC RE values.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 1:02
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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If you are refering to me "bitching about the tax increase" please show me where I did.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 0:34
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Home away from home
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I *did* buy in DTJC. (With no idea about the reval nonsense.) I *did* get a tax break as a result. Someone who bought a condo in 2008 *did* get nearly a decade of tax breaks. I *did* get a higher tax bill. Instead of whining about it like an entitled little bitch, I recognized that the update is generally fair. I don't have hostility towards "DTJC residents." I am morally outraged by the people who think they are entitled to a tax break at someone else's expense, did nothing to deserve said tax break, and are willing to grab onto any rationalization they can to excuse their selfishness and a deeply unfair system. I also find all the hand-wringing to be slightly amusing. Property values in JC have survived 9/11; the bursting of an epic international real estate and financial bubble; Hurricane Sandy; increased ridership on the PATH; and parts of Newark Avenue turning into a pedestrian plaza. I'm reasonably confident property values will survive the reval.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 0:29
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Home away from home
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I don't understand all the hostility towards dtjc residents. If the tax incentive was that great you all should have bought in dtjc. And by the way someone who bought their condo in 2008 did not receive your massive tax break for decades. The real issue is not who benefited but what took the reaval so long. The fact is anyone who is living in a house that was last assessed in 1988 is getting a break. I for one don't think that someone living in a 700k condo downtown should pay the same tax as a 700k house in a different neighborhood. However this is the system and those benefiting can thank Chris Christie because without him this doesn't happen.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 0:16
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Home away from home
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It should not be the responsibility of individual citizens to fix an abject failure of by the city to uphold its legal responsibilities to keep property taxes accurate. It's also my understanding that tax appeals are limited in how much they can adjust your tax amount. Quote: As a result of the City?s willful negligence not conducting a reval, DT property values have been inflated by low assessments over the past 30 years. Now, post reval, there?s little doubt DT values will fall, especially with the cap on SALT deductions. Another revaluation will mitigate the damage caused. Please. If someone's tax bill went from $10k to $30k, that's because they are living in a $2 million home. The reval and Trump tax fiasco is not going to shrink the value of that home to $675k. Plus, those people have underpaid their tax burden for years, if not decades (another issue that can't be fixed by people appealing their tax bill). They have done jack **** to deserve a break. (I might add, my tax bill is going up, and I'm not bitching about it.) Also, see above post for a half dozen other reasons why JC property values have gone up over the decades. Quote: The blame for all this mess belongs with Jersey City politicians and administration employees, who knew all along what was going on and did NOTHING for 30 years. They should be held accountable. Yeah, I don't think so. They held off the reval, because that's what a bloc of citizens demanded. This happens all over NJ, too.
Posted on: 2018/3/7 0:13
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Low taxes was only one part of what has driven up property values in DTJC. Other factors include, but are not limited to: ? Intense real estate pressures in the NYC area (including the insanity of buying in Manhattan, which is dominated by co-ops) ? Close proximity to Manhattan, especially the Financial District and much of Midtown ? Low inventory in DTJC (75% is rental) ? Housing stock that's either decent or worth fixing up ? Record low interest rates ? Between ~1995 and 2006, a massive bubble in national real estate values ? Lots of other nearby areas which didn't have such tax imbalances also increased in value Also, keep in mind that DTJC has been in the process of gentrification for decades -- as in, long before property taxes got out of whack. Another thing to keep in mind? Hoboken did a reval a few years ago, and it was not Real Estate Armageddon. What a shock. What is likely to happen is that RE values will drop for a few months, then come right back up. At the bare minimum, the people who own those $1 million homes? Another adjustment isn't going to reduce their taxes back to $10k/yr. Sorry, Charlie. You got a massive tax break for decades, now pay yer taxes.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 23:57
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Not too shy to talk
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Cut out $3 Starbux for 25 business days per month ($900 annually); Keep cable but downgrade (Fios is $50 less than Xfinit)i x 12 ($600 annually); Get in the habit of bringing lunch to work 3x a week. I work in TriBeCa, so my savings is $45 each week, ($2160 annually). This alone = $3660. My tax bill increased $2,500. It's called tightening your belt! Tax bill problem solved!
Posted on: 2018/3/6 23:17
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Home away from home
Joined:
2004/9/15 18:45 Last Login : 2023/5/12 21:59 From Harsuimus Cove
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We can blame all we want, but what?s fair is what?s fair. And you yourself said what needs to be said to anyone whose property value falls over the next year or so. If you don?t recall, I bolded it for you. Also, just for clarity, the last reval was in 1988.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 22:36
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Home away from home
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2 years is what I believe. One year is not enough time for new sales at lower prices reflecting the taxes to close and their comps to be valid for a new reval. Assuming it's the same October deadline, they would have to close by then to be valid. The deadline should be October 2019. I also think now that land is 60% of value of a house that there should be a yearly reval just of the land based on that year's comps. This could be done by an analyst at a desk with no inspections, and reduce the change at a periodic reval so there's far less hysteria.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 22:23
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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maybe aood solution would be for reval in another 2 years and then every 5 years after that. now, the people in the less affluent areas want to protect their lower taxes. shameQuote:
Posted on: 2018/3/6 20:28
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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During the entire time since the 1998 reval anybody who believed their property taxes were ?unfair? had the right to appeal. If someone didn?t, that was plain crazy, and you can cry me a river about their ?inequitatable? property taxes. As a result of the City?s willful negligence not conducting a reval, DT property values have been inflated by low assessments over the past 30 years. Now, post reval, there?s little doubt DT values will fall, especially with the cap on SALT deductions. Another revaluation will mitigate the damage caused. And yes, it was damaging for all the other areas over the past 30 years to pay too much in taxes. Those folks should have, but apparently didn?t, appeal. That?s their issue to deal with. The blame for all this mess belongs with Jersey City politicians and administration employees, who knew all along what was going on and did NOTHING for 30 years. They should be held accountable.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 20:26
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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How hard is it for you to grasp the poorer 5/6ths of the city overpaid for DECADES? Yes, values will tick down, but it will be temporary. It's customary for a reval to happen every 5-10 years. Adding another reval next year will only add cost to the city, give incrimental relief to downtown, and serves only to preserve votes downtown. Steve is out of his element this time, and in a panic to save his political future.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 20:18
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
Joined:
2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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1980
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I agree completely. I think regular revals should occur. Every 5 years or so. The issue here is, you have three decades where some residents were screwed. They were paying a tax rate double that of those living with much better means. The poor were subsidizing the wealthy. A reval one year later would mean that the poorer areas only receive one year relief to earn back the money they lost over those decades.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 19:30
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Dos A Cero
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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The point is that low taxes drove up the market values. High taxes will lower the values and now there will be a flood of appeals unless another reveal happens
Posted on: 2018/3/6 19:29
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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well, i wonder if people in dtjc voe or complain more. in any event, a reval in another year would just reflect what's fair and proper at the time. revals should be done on a regular basis imoQuote:
Posted on: 2018/3/6 19:24
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Home away from home
Joined:
2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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1980
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Yes, because Fulop needs to cater to those downtown individuals. he did them the favor of pushing back the reval further. Now, he's going to trigger another with the hope that property values have dropped within the year so that the burden can be shifted back onto the poorer portion of the city. Heaven forbid those living in million dollar homes pay the proper taxes on their property...
Posted on: 2018/3/6 19:17
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Dos A Cero
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Well that's crazy. But what could have occurred is that they anticipated a drop in market values and lowered the values. Instead fulop is already talking another reval post crash
Posted on: 2018/3/6 19:10
Edited by 135jc on 2018/3/6 19:26:20
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Yeah, thing is? Property taxes have to actually fall first. I mean, really. Tell us all, how much will home values actually drop over the next 6 months? What happens if they rise up again 6 months later? The reality is that many of the people who have gotten away with insanely and unfairly low property tax rates don't want to pay higher taxes. It doesn't matter who else has to pay more to give them a tax break. It doesn't matter how much the value of their property went up. It's just selfishness masquerading as righteousness.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 18:39
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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His identity is not top secret information. It took all of 30 seconds to look it up. So, I'd say that if you were genuinely interested, you shouldn't have assumed.
Posted on: 2018/3/6 18:17
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