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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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bodhipooh wrote:
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heights wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Another entry for the JC Property Tax Hall of Shame:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/243 ... y-NJ-07302/38888495_zpid/

243 2nd St -
Asking Price: 1.75 MM
Taxes (2015): 10.6 K (a whopping 0.6%)

If we end up at a 2% rate, the new taxes would be 35K. Even if we end up with a 1.8% rate, this property will pay 31.5K. I wonder if the seller, or their agent, will disclose that to potential buyers.

Tell me again how this reval is not overdue?

If they have to be told then they should continue to rent.


That's total BS, Heights. Full disclosure of critical matters related to a property sale should be legally required. Lots of buyers are gobbling up DTJC properties seemingly unaware of the impending reval. How's someone supposed to know about the reval process and the potential for a doubling or tripling of the advertised taxes.


The joke is that any property on a 25x100 lot should have to pay $35k in taxes. Let alone one in a city loaded with business and industry that should offset property taxes. Then again I guess Steve will need to cover the estimated $9.6 million lost in federal aid.

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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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heights wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Another entry for the JC Property Tax Hall of Shame:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/243 ... y-NJ-07302/38888495_zpid/

243 2nd St -
Asking Price: 1.75 MM
Taxes (2015): 10.6 K (a whopping 0.6%)

If we end up at a 2% rate, the new taxes would be 35K. Even if we end up with a 1.8% rate, this property will pay 31.5K. I wonder if the seller, or their agent, will disclose that to potential buyers.

Tell me again how this reval is not overdue?

If they have to be told then they should continue to rent.


That's total BS, Heights. Full disclosure of critical matters related to a property sale should be legally required. Lots of buyers are gobbling up DTJC properties seemingly unaware of the impending reval. How's someone supposed to know about the reval process and the potential for a doubling or tripling of the advertised taxes.

Posted on: Yesterday 23:14
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It's really tough to come up with any honest argument that doesn't support getting this reval done quickly and accurately.

People are coming up with all kinds of quack justifications for why it is unfair. Amazing what sticker shock will do to ones ability to be rational...

Posted on: Yesterday 22:08
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bodhipooh wrote:
Another entry for the JC Property Tax Hall of Shame:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/243 ... y-NJ-07302/38888495_zpid/

243 2nd St -
Asking Price: 1.75 MM
Taxes (2015): 10.6 K (a whopping 0.6%)

If we end up at a 2% rate, the new taxes would be 35K. Even if we end up with a 1.8% rate, this property will pay 31.5K. I wonder if the seller, or their agent, will disclose that to potential buyers.

Tell me again how this reval is not overdue?

If they have to be told then they should continue to rent.

Posted on: Yesterday 20:08
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Another entry for the JC Property Tax Hall of Shame:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/243 ... y-NJ-07302/38888495_zpid/

243 2nd St -
Asking Price: 1.75 MM
Taxes (2015): 10.6 K (a whopping 0.6%)

If we end up at a 2% rate, the new taxes would be 35K. Even if we end up with a 1.8% rate, this property will pay 31.5K. I wonder if the seller, or their agent, will disclose that to potential buyers.

Tell me again how this reval is not overdue?


Posted on: Yesterday 19:12
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Posted on: Yesterday 14:17
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brewster wrote:
My experience with appraisals is that they're bullshit from top to bottom.


During my financing journey in the pre-housing bubble era, I came to the same conclusion. I became convinced the appraisal came out to whatever the bank (I could only use portfolio lenders.. no Fannie or Freddie) wanted the appraisal to come out too.

One (Emigrant Savings) arbitrarily reduced the value on the appraisal report because the building was attached on two sides (it's a townhouse). This left me with five figure mortgage and far more equity in the property than I had figured (based on comps in the area).

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My experience with appraisals is that they're bullshit from top to bottom. I was trying to refi and had banks do 2 different appraisals. I held the tape measure for 1 guy. His gross sq footage came out 20% under. The other guys was 15% under. I could see the bogus measurements in the drawings. A rowhouse with a 1 floor extension is easy, it's 2 boxes. The banks said tough shit, that's what it's worth.

What they apparently do is decide what the number should be and then fudge using the measurements and subjective numbers like GRM to make it come out. One appraisal even had the 3 methods, comp, replacement and rent, all come out within a couple of thousand of each other. What do suppose the odds were?

Now take that process, and for the reval make it even faster and shittier. Should be fun.
omg, don't get me started on appraisals. i once had an appraisal done for a refi that was so bad that the bank rejected the appraisal because it was so badly done despite the fact that the property appraised at the value i needed. why use comprabales for a house 5-15 miles away when similar houses have sold right done the street in the recent past?

Posted on: 3/21 22:35
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That article is being bandied about on the NextDoor site. The article is poorly written in that critical facts were left out of the narrative. Before getting all riled up, look at the facts. The taxes did not rise 111% because of the appraisal errors. The guy is looking for sympathy based on half truths.


What is incredibly frustrating is how the reporter absolutely sticks by her misreporting despite multiple comments stating that this story is bullcrap. She keeps insisting that the owner was bamboozled because of an incorrect bathroom/bedroom count--however, multiple people have sourced the original MLS sheet showing 6 bedrooms as well as the owner's OWN for rent listing showing 6 bedrooms. She completely ignores his purchase price. I would bet good money that the house is not 1500 sq ft as he claimed, anyone with eyes can see that. Several comments have calculated square foot based on Google Earth/dug up property records that show around 2600 sq ft. I could go on and on.

The article and journalist either have an agenda... or are incredibly dense. Neither of which is good in media.


Exactly. I didn't want to get into all the details, but glad you did. In addition to what you state above, a few people went through the hassle of documenting the actual history of the property in terms of taxes, sale values, and MLS listings. It is SUPER CLEAR to anyone wanting to get to the truth that the story is BS. But, of course, people react emotionally, instead of rationally, and this story is now being used by those who want to oppose the reval at any cost.

What is the expression for that? Oh, yeah: feels before reals!

Posted on: 3/21 22:30
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bodhipooh wrote:
That article is being bandied about on the NextDoor site. The article is poorly written in that critical facts were left out of the narrative. Before getting all riled up, look at the facts. The taxes did not rise 111% because of the appraisal errors. The guy is looking for sympathy based on half truths.


What is incredibly frustrating is how the reporter absolutely sticks by her misreporting despite multiple comments stating that this story is bullcrap. She keeps insisting that the owner was bamboozled because of an incorrect bathroom/bedroom count--however, multiple people have sourced the original MLS sheet showing 6 bedrooms as well as the owner's OWN for rent listing showing 6 bedrooms. She completely ignores his purchase price. I would bet good money that the house is not 1500 sq ft as he claimed, anyone with eyes can see that. Several comments have calculated square foot based on Google Earth/dug up property records that show around 2600 sq ft. I could go on and on.

The article and journalist either have an agenda... or are incredibly dense. Neither of which is good in media.

Posted on: 3/21 21:43
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My experience with appraisals is that they're bullshit from top to bottom. I was trying to refi and had banks do 2 different appraisals. I held the tape measure for 1 guy. His gross sq footage came out 20% under. The other guys was 15% under. I could see the bogus measurements in the drawings. A rowhouse with a 1 floor extension is easy, it's 2 boxes. The banks said tough shit, that's what it's worth.

What they apparently do is decide what the number should be and then fudge using the measurements and subjective numbers like GRM to make it come out. One appraisal even had the 3 methods, comp, replacement and rent, all come out within a couple of thousand of each other. What do suppose the odds were?

Now take that process, and for the reval make it even faster and shittier. Should be fun.

Posted on: 3/21 20:12
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That article is being bandied about on the NextDoor site. The article is poorly written in that critical facts were left out of the narrative. Before getting all riled up, look at the facts. The taxes did not rise 111% because of the appraisal errors. The guy is looking for sympathy based on half truths.

Posted on: 3/21 17:35
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Reading the article, he is tackling the problem in an ineffectual, time wasting manner.

One should:

1) make sure your taxes are paid in full, even as bad as the assessment/billing is

2) file an appeal directly with the *County* Board of Taxation.

3) do so before the April 1st deadline.

Unlike him, you notably cut the municipality and its tax assessor out of the loop. This is all covered by statute (NJSA 54:3). Hire a lawyer, already, Phil O.

If you do not like the County Board of Taxation's assessment, then you can appeal to the NJ State Tax Court.

Here's the nice part. When you win your appeal, the municipality refunds your tax overpayment, plus pays an additional 5% interest to you. Tax appeal refunds put a hurt into the muni budget; the town will take notice and direct its attention to its tax assessor or reval firm or both.







Posted on: 3/21 16:58
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ecoindie wrote:
http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/ ... ble_after_phantom_15.html

Appraisal Systems (Fulop hired for Reval) caused Maplewood property owner's property taxes to rise 111 percent from $7,100 to $15,000 in 18 months with bogus claims of non existent improvements and features.


And that property owner is a former Fulop aide who, last I know, worked at the JCRA.

Posted on: 3/21 16:29
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http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/ ... ble_after_phantom_15.html

Appraisal Systems (Fulop hired for Reval) caused Maplewood property owner's property taxes to rise 111 percent from $7,100 to $15,000 in 18 months with bogus claims of non existent improvements and features.

Posted on: 3/21 15:11
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maybe its time that fulop put together a plan for a graduated phase-out of abatements in jersey city?


He already said (as councilman) that he'd do that if elected . . .

Cute one.

Posted on: 3/16 21:19
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maybe its time that fulop put together a plan for a graduated phase-out of abatements in jersey city?


He already said (as councilman) that he'd do that if elected . . .

Posted on: 3/16 18:36
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maybe its time that fulop put together a plan for a graduated phase-out of abatements in jersey city?

Posted on: 3/16 18:01
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Posted on: 3/16 13:39
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how much do those bayonne boxes costs.i would think that for just a bit more money, one could produce a much nicer building that would hold its value longer over time and get good rents.


I wish I knew more about the numbers, but clearly from patterns in DTJC and in Hoboken, there's a tipping point where values and demographics dictate nicer buildings. No one has built a BB DT in a long time, though there's a number of them on Marin. And it's clearly not just that most of lo-rise DT is Historic. So higher values appear to be the only thing that can save JC from the Bayonne Box.

Posted on: 3/9 23:31
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those bayonne boxes are not cheap, i'm surprised.


But they're tremendously profitable. Trench poured foundation, off the shelf plan, and cheap materials. That's why they can pay so much for 50x100 teardown lots.

Fulop's mailing is so nauseating in it's self righteous "it wasn't us, they made us do it". I wish we had better, but the snakepit that is JC politics weeds out the all but the hopelessly idealistic and the players of games. People in a position to know told me well before he was mayor that Fulop was not the choirboy he seemed, but I didn't listen.
how much do those bayonne boxes costs.i would think that for just a bit more money, one could produce a much nicer building that would hold its value longer over time and get good rents.

Posted on: 3/9 20:24
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those bayonne boxes are not cheap, i'm surprised.


But they're tremendously profitable. Trench poured foundation, off the shelf plan, and cheap materials. That's why they can pay so much for 50x100 teardown lots.

Fulop's mailing is so nauseating in it's self righteous "it wasn't us, they made us do it". I wish we had better, but the snakepit that is JC politics weeds out the all but the hopelessly idealistic and the players of games. People in a position to know told me well before he was mayor that Fulop was not the choirboy he seemed, but I didn't listen.

Posted on: 3/9 20:16
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i was just looking at price history for greenville...wow, that area really rode the bubble up, down and now back up again (sort of). and those bayonne boxes are not cheap, i'm surprised.

Posted on: 3/9 20:00
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Info sessions on Jersey City reval to start

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on March 06, 2017 at 2:38 PM, updated March 06, 2017 at 2:42 PM

JERSEY CITY -- A series of seven informational sessions about the upcoming citywide property revaluation kicks off Saturday in City Hall.

The state last year ordered the city to conduct a reval, saying the long-stalled process has led to inequitable taxation. A flier Jersey City sent to property owners last week twice blames Gov. Chris Christie for forcing the reval to begin. The letter also references "the order from Trenton."

"This is being done in response to an order by Gov. Christie that is forcing the city of Jersey City to complete a revaluation," the letter reads.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _city_reval_to_start.html


Posted on: 3/6 14:49
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My point is that people who did some work around their house probably shouldn't be flipped out by the idea that this assessment inspection will bring down the Buildings Dept on them. Fearing having your valuation go up is another story.

Posted on: 3/5 15:06
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- A lot of people assumed the property inspections would help ferret out illegal apartments or help uncover remodel work for which proper permits were not secured, but the inspection process has a major loophole that could be exploited to hide those situations. An owner who has made substantial renovation work but didn't get proper permits (and, therefore, said work is not reflected in the information about the property) can simply refuse or avoid the physical inspections twice and wait to see what is the presumed value assigned by the inspectors. If the estimate is low enough, don't say anything. But, if the inspector assumes a value higher than the work you had done, well... call up the number they left and have them complete the visual inspection.


My impression from all that has been said about this is that it takes something gross to be noticed, like an extension out back or a new bathroom. New drywall, probably not, replacing flooring or kitchen cabinets does not require a permit. If you actually know of anecdotal evidence to the contrary, please correct me if I'm wrong. I guess there's few who have been through this since it's been 29 years!


My point is that the information brochure from the city states that the inspectors will take account of the improvements and conditions inside each property to determine its FMV. For those properties to which the inspectors can not gain access, they will leave a note and come back a second time. If after two attempts they can not gain access, they will guesstimate the value of the property. For people who have done massive work inside a home, or those who run boarding houses chock full of illegal apartments, they are better off avoiding the inspectors and rolling the dice on valuation.

From the brochure:

"It's important to point out that the valuation of your home will be based on the total living area in terms of square footage, rather than by a room count, although the inspector will list the total number of rooms for descriptive purposes only.

Aside from the living area, other features which will affect the valuation of your home, include: remodeled bathrooms and kitchens, finished basements, central air conditioning, desks [sic] and patios, pools, garages, and overall use, etc. Topographical features of the land are also noted as they affect value.

If unable to gain entrance at the time of the first visit, the field representative will leave a card suggesting a time for a return visit and a phone number to enable you to schedule the next visit at a mutually convenient time. If at the time of the second visit an interior inspection is not possible, a considered estimate of the interior structure of the premises will be made by the inspector. This information will be recorded on a card and left for the homeowner. If the estimate is incorrect, the property owner may call the phone number on the card to arrange for an interior inspection of the property at a mutually convenient date and time."

Posted on: 3/5 13:35
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Looked at the letter and noticed they had the wrong URL. Should be www.jerseycitynj.gov/reval Not .com

Good job by the City, not

Posted on: 3/5 13:17
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bodhipooh wrote:
- A lot of people assumed the property inspections would help ferret out illegal apartments or help uncover remodel work for which proper permits were not secured, but the inspection process has a major loophole that could be exploited to hide those situations. An owner who has made substantial renovation work but didn't get proper permits (and, therefore, said work is not reflected in the information about the property) can simply refuse or avoid the physical inspections twice and wait to see what is the presumed value assigned by the inspectors. If the estimate is low enough, don't say anything. But, if the inspector assumes a value higher than the work you had done, well... call up the number they left and have them complete the visual inspection.


My impression from all that has been said about this is that it takes something gross to be noticed, like an extension out back or a new bathroom. New drywall, probably not, replacing flooring or kitchen cabinets does not require a permit. If you actually know of anecdotal evidence to the contrary, please correct me if I'm wrong. I guess there's few who have been through this since it's been 29 years!

Posted on: 3/5 13:01
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Received pamphlets from city hall in yesterday's mail (see links below). Looks like another amateur hour to me.

After almost 4 years of delays and delaying, they stuff an envelope. 3 different papers and paper stock. tri-fold and letter size. (and politically correct a Spanish language cover letter!) and still don't answer questions:

* on what date will the inspectors start their physical inspections?
* on what date are the physical inspections scheduled to be completed?
* wasn't it possible to include a mock-up ID card? Folks are terrified to open doors to strangers (see PSE&G scams).... how difficult can it be to show a sample?

It it very realistic to assume that this process will drag on for a long, long time (obviously past the municipal elections in Nov.);


http://i.imgur.com/gqIHXPs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OI3WhNW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kOCurRH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KKI7FIN.jpg



Two take aways from those copies you uploaded (thank you for the effort!):
- the city is trying to play the victim card by blaming the reval on Governor Christie, without any mention of the legal statues that require the city to complete this process every 10 years, or that the city last carried out a reval almost 30 years ago.

- A lot of people assumed the property inspections would help ferret out illegal apartments or help uncover remodel work for which proper permits were not secured, but the inspection process has a major loophole that could be exploited to hide those situations. An owner who has made substantial renovation work but didn't get proper permits (and, therefore, said work is not reflected in the information about the property) can simply refuse or avoid the physical inspections twice and wait to see what is the presumed value assigned by the inspectors. If the estimate is low enough, don't say anything. But, if the inspector assumes a value higher than the work you had done, well... call up the number they left and have them complete the visual inspection.

Posted on: 3/5 8:58
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Received pamphlets from city hall in yesterday's mail (see links below). Looks like another amateur hour to me.

After almost 4 years of delays and delaying, they stuff an envelope. 3 different papers and paper stock. tri-fold and letter size. (and politically correct a Spanish language cover letter!) and still don't answer questions:

* on what date will the inspectors start their physical inspections?
* on what date are the physical inspections scheduled to be completed?
* wasn't it possible to include a mock-up ID card? Folks are terrified to open doors to strangers (see PSE&G scams).... how difficult can it be to show a sample?

It it very realistic to assume that this process will drag on for a long, long time (obviously past the municipal elections in Nov.);


http://i.imgur.com/gqIHXPs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OI3WhNW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kOCurRH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KKI7FIN.jpg


Posted on: 3/5 8:06
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