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Re: Trump Our New President
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Regarding Trump's travel ban, how is it effective to ban visa or green card holders? They went through the process legally.

Also, why was Saudi Arabia not on the list? Clearly, Saudi Arabia supports terrorism so if you're going to have a travel ban, they should be #1. I wonder if Trump's business deals in Saudi Arabia kept them off the list?

Does Trump want to be effective or not?


1. Green card holders weren't banned. It's just that if they leave the country and want to return, they will have to go through additional screening. Fine by me.


Why would they need additional screening if they travel? They already have a green card.

If their behavior/background requires additional investigation, that should happen regardless of travel.

Quote:

2. Saudi Arabia was not on the list because unfortunately, they are a crucial ally in the Middle East. Apart from Israel, they are our biggest ally there.

I can't STAND them, but for the time being we need them.

And FYI, this list is just a start. It will probably keep growing, thankfully.


Saudi Arabia is a business ally but they are absolutely not an ally when it comes to terrorism.

So Trump wants to ban travel from certain countries to make us safer but won't limit the country that sent 15 of 19 suicide bombers on 9/11? It doesn't make sense and you know it.

Does Trump want to be effective or not?


You are being obtuse and repeating yourself. I suggest you read my post again.

Posted on: 1/28 19:50
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Regarding Trump's travel ban, how is it effective to ban visa or green card holders? They went through the process legally.

Also, why was Saudi Arabia not on the list? Clearly, Saudi Arabia supports terrorism so if you're going to have a travel ban, they should be #1. I wonder if Trump's business deals in Saudi Arabia kept them off the list?

Does Trump want to be effective or not?


1. Green card holders weren't banned. It's just that if they leave the country and want to return, they will have to go through additional screening. Fine by me.


Why would they need additional screening if they travel? They already have a green card.

If their behavior/background requires additional investigation, that should happen regardless of travel.

Quote:

2. Saudi Arabia was not on the list because unfortunately, they are a crucial ally in the Middle East. Apart from Israel, they are our biggest ally there.

I can't STAND them, but for the time being we need them.

And FYI, this list is just a start. It will probably keep growing, thankfully.


Saudi Arabia is a business ally but they are absolutely not an ally when it comes to terrorism.

So Trump wants to ban travel from certain countries to make us safer but won't limit the country that sent 15 of 19 suicide bombers on 9/11? It doesn't make sense and you know it.

Does Trump want to be effective or not?

Posted on: 1/28 19:36
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Re: Trump Our New President
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Regarding Trump's travel ban, how is it effective to ban visa or green card holders? They went through the process legally.

Also, why was Saudi Arabia not on the list? Clearly, Saudi Arabia supports terrorism so if you're going to have a travel ban, they should be #1. I wonder if Trump's business deals in Saudi Arabia kept them off the list?

Does Trump want to be effective or not?


1. Green card holders weren't banned. It's just that if they leave the country and want to return, they will have to go through additional screening. Fine by me.

2. Saudi Arabia was not on the list because unfortunately, they are a crucial ally in the Middle East. Apart from Israel, they are our biggest ally there.

I can't STAND them, but for the time being we need them.

And FYI, this list is just a start. It will probably keep growing, thankfully.

Posted on: 1/28 19:20
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135jc wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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135jc wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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135jc wrote:
Since Mexico does not want to pay for the wall what is their suggestion to keep their citizens within their own boundaries? Maybe they will want to reimburse the US for all the services the immigrants will receive here in the US curtosy of the taxpayer


Why is it Mexico's concern?


You don't think this is a black eye for Mexico? They want to be part of a global world and can't manage their own boarders?


The rest of the world is too busy laughing at America's black eyes.

Anyways, people will always try to improve themselves if possible. You can shame them but it's still going to happen.


The rest of the world needs America a lot more then America needs them. Maybe soon you will realize that too.


Your point is too simplistic without context.

Does the US have the strongest economy? Yes but it still only makes up 25% of the total economy. And it clearly engages in lots of multi-national trade. So it can't entirely push people around without negative consequences to itself.

Furthermore, it's clear that trade wars hurt both countries. So if the US wants to hurt Mexico, it can do so, but it will hurt itself as well. Even though the US will be impacted less in a than Mexico in a trade war, it doesn't change the fact that the US will still be worse off.

Posted on: 1/28 18:56
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heights wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Great article on immigration:

America's Immigration Challenge

Coming to the United States would benefit millions—but policymakers seldom ask whether their arrival would benefit the United States.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a ... /2015/12/refugees/419976/


The benefit to the US depends on who the immigrant is.

If the immigrant is talented and productive, then clearly their presence benefits the US. Ask Google about bringing in foreign talent, they know a little about HR. Or ask a low margin small business owner who needs low skill manual laborers (ie jobs that the typical American won't do).

You make Americans sound as if they are refusing work or are not smart enough to do the job. From manual labor, to ball players, to computer techs, to doctors, just to name a few. Perhaps we should put an official moratorium on foreign staff so only Americans need apply first. Would you choose over your family for someone on the outside ?


There are some jobs Americans won't take.

I have several garden centers as clients in NJ and they've always had open job postings for manual laborers (loading trucks, moving inventory, and watering plants). They'd love to fill these roles with Americans who are culturally similar and have superior English skills but Americans don't even apply for these jobs much less turn them down. Not even teenagers apply. (Probably too entitled).

As for high skill jobs, America is only 5% of the population but has a healthy, growing economy. Given that, they have the growth to support hiring top talent from the 95% rest of the world. Google, Facebook, etc know what they are doing as it relates to recruiting. If it made sense to only hire Americans, they would do it. But clearly that's foolish. Not every American is highly skilled and lots of the remaining 95% of the world's populations are.

Posted on: 1/28 18:52
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Great article on immigration:

America's Immigration Challenge

Coming to the United States would benefit millions—but policymakers seldom ask whether their arrival would benefit the United States.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a ... /2015/12/refugees/419976/


The benefit to the US depends on who the immigrant is.

If the immigrant is talented and productive, then clearly their presence benefits the US. Ask Google about bringing in foreign talent, they know a little about HR. Or ask a low margin small business owner who needs low skill manual laborers (ie jobs that the typical American won't do).

You make Americans sound as if they are refusing work or are not smart enough to do the job. From manual labor, to ball players, to computer techs, to doctors, just to name a few. Perhaps we should put an official moratorium on foreign staff so only Americans need apply first. Would you choose over your family for someone on the outside ?

Posted on: 1/28 18:46
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Re: Trump Our New President
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Regarding Trump's travel ban, how is it effective to ban visa or green card holders? They went through the process legally.

Also, why was Saudi Arabia not on the list? Clearly, Saudi Arabia supports terrorism so if you're going to have a travel ban, they should be #1. I wonder if Trump's business deals in Saudi Arabia kept them off the list?

Does Trump want to be effective or not?

Posted on: 1/28 18:46
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Re: Trump Our New President
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JCMan8 wrote:
Great article on immigration:

America's Immigration Challenge

Coming to the United States would benefit millions—but policymakers seldom ask whether their arrival would benefit the United States.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a ... /2015/12/refugees/419976/


The benefit to the US depends on who the immigrant is.

If the immigrant is talented and productive, then clearly their presence benefits the US. Ask Google about bringing in foreign talent, they know a little about HR. Or ask a low margin small business owner who needs low skill manual laborers (ie jobs that the typical American won't do).

Posted on: 1/28 18:42
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So sad to hear you are leaving. I may not have always agreed with you but you were a valuable contributor to this forum. Also, now more than ever we need people to stick up for freedom...to save this nation from the peril that resides in the White House currently.

I have one relative and several in-laws who reside in Australia(by extension NZ)......from what I am told they are facing similar issues with right wingers.....

Good Luck!


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fat-ass-bike wrote:
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stillinjc wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
The next 4 years we will see BIGOTS raise their ugly heads via our No.1 BIGOT Mr TRUMP ... Welcome to the US of Asses !


You posting from here, or are you in Canada already?

Oh, you're like the rest of liberals - all promises and no action. Nobody went to Canada. :(


Canada ? Application approved to migrate to Australia (just waiting for the paperwork to be completed) and Melbourne will be the city I'm moving to ... 'declared the most liveable city in the world' My home here is on the rental market, so that should keep me afloat after I buy a home there ... I've been looking at the suburbs called Camberwell and Canterbury which was suggested by the embassy guy and my budget.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/why-au ... orld-20150512-ggznm3.html


Posted on: 1/28 17:32
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
The next 4 years we will see BIGOTS raise their ugly heads via our No.1 BIGOT Mr TRUMP ... Welcome to the US of Asses !


You posting from here, or are you in Canada already?

Oh, you're like the rest of liberals - all promises and no action. Nobody went to Canada. :(


Canada ? Application approved to migrate to Australia (just waiting for the paperwork to be completed) and Melbourne will be the city I'm moving to ... 'declared the most liveable city in the world' My home here is on the rental market, so that should keep me afloat after I buy a home there ... I've been looking at the suburbs called Camberwell and Canterbury which was suggested by the embassy guy and my budget.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/why-au ... orld-20150512-ggznm3.html


Posted on: 1/28 17:00
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Re: Trump Our New President
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stillinjc wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Great article on immigration:

America's Immigration Challenge

Coming to the United States would benefit millions—but policymakers seldom ask whether their arrival would benefit the United States.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a ... /2015/12/refugees/419976/


...unlike Australia and NZ which have awesome point systems. Economic flunkies need not apply.


It's long overdue for our immigration policy to return to its previous priorities, ones shared by countries like Australia as you point out.

The pertinent question is NOT, do immigrants want to come here? Of course they will, most of the world does.

The question is will we benefit? That's what needs to start being asked again.

Posted on: 1/28 16:58
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JCMan8 wrote:
Great article on immigration:

America's Immigration Challenge

Coming to the United States would benefit millions—but policymakers seldom ask whether their arrival would benefit the United States.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a ... /2015/12/refugees/419976/


...unlike Australia and NZ which have awesome point systems. Economic flunkies need not apply.

Posted on: 1/28 16:22
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Great article on immigration:

America's Immigration Challenge

Coming to the United States would benefit millions—but policymakers seldom ask whether their arrival would benefit the United States.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/a ... /2015/12/refugees/419976/

Posted on: 1/28 15:53
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I was part of a group that I won't mention now whose goal was to register new voters in JC. I was assigned to buildings downtown that was new construction then. It was affordable housing and market rate with a generous tax abatement, none of the people who lived there was eligible for registration because none were American citizens. It really opened by eyes to what is happening in JC and perhaps other urban areas. There will never be enough housing with legal as well as illegal immigrant but those buildings do not pay what the small average homeowner pays today in taxes.

Posted on: 1/28 15:34
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Yvonne wrote:
Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent. Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population


Does that number include Melania Trump and all of Donald's Slovene and Czech kids?

Posted on: 1/28 14:38
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guess what, many illegals do pay taxes and get few, if any, benefits.


Huh? Now u are just being absurd.


What do you think happens when they use a fake SSN? They pay taxes and never get any benefits. Duh.

Posted on: 1/28 14:13
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The majority of illegals in Jersey City work their butts off at two or more jobs and pay taxes to avoid detection. They were engineers and teachers in the countries they fled, and now they are nannies and busboys. Highly educated ones.

There...my anecdotes are just as valid as yours.


Riiight. All those guys riding bikes on the sidewalk were engineers and teachers back home in Mexico? Paid in cash pays taxes how? Living in illegal apartments that don't pay more in taxes, as their kids get over $20K/year in free education, school lunches, after school programs, ESL costs . . . who get sick and use the emergency room as their primary doctor, which means we pay more in our premiums to cover it?
guess what, many illegals do pay taxes and get few, if any, benefits.


Huh? Now u are just being absurd.

Posted on: 1/28 13:10
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Posted on: 1/28 12:05
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Your link was broken so I fixed it below
http://nypost.com/2017/01/27/horrible ... lag-force-family-to-flee/

This whole article seems very confusing. One idiotic neighbor hangs a Nazi flag as a misguided sign of protest, but the other neighbors were being harassed. Were Nazis coming to the area? Why weren't the people who hung the Nazi flag harassed?

Besides when Obama was elected prior flew the Confederate flag. A lot of people still do. I'm not sure if you want to call this liberal madness, or just plain stupid. I vote for the latter.


Not really! The sarcasm was missed by the blind hatred of the left. Even though the flag was a protest of Trump they decided to terrorize those they felt were responsible for it. It's unfortunate that this family was caught in the middle and their vitriol was not felt by the idiot who displayed it in the first place.

Posted on: 1/28 11:59
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
The next 4 years we will see BIGOTS raise their ugly heads via our No.1 BIGOT Mr TRUMP ... Welcome to the US of Asses !


You posting from here, or are you in Canada already?

Oh, you're like the rest of liberals - all promises and no action. Nobody went to Canada. :(

Posted on: 1/28 11:55
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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135jc wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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135jc wrote:
Since Mexico does not want to pay for the wall what is their suggestion to keep their citizens within their own boundaries? Maybe they will want to reimburse the US for all the services the immigrants will receive here in the US curtosy of the taxpayer


Why is it Mexico's concern?


You don't think this is a black eye for Mexico? They want to be part of a global world and can't manage their own boarders?


The rest of the world is too busy laughing at America's black eyes.

Anyways, people will always try to improve themselves if possible. You can shame them but it's still going to happen.


The rest of the world needs America a lot more then America needs them. Maybe soon you will realize that too.

Posted on: 1/28 11:27
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K-Lo2 wrote:
The majority of illegals in Jersey City work their butts off at two or more jobs and pay taxes to avoid detection. They were engineers and teachers in the countries they fled, and now they are nannies and busboys. Highly educated ones.

There...my anecdotes are just as valid as yours.


Riiight. All those guys riding bikes on the sidewalk were engineers and teachers back home in Mexico? Paid in cash pays taxes how? Living in illegal apartments that don't pay more in taxes, as their kids get over $20K/year in free education, school lunches, after school programs, ESL costs . . . who get sick and use the emergency room as their primary doctor, which means we pay more in our premiums to cover it?

Bingo Monroe ! And I almost got clipped by many of "them" while crossing the threshold exiting stores on Central Ave. When I tried to say something they respond by silence or a smile...and I use a bicycle as well.

Posted on: 1/28 11:15
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K-Lo2 wrote:
The majority of illegals in Jersey City work their butts off at two or more jobs and pay taxes to avoid detection. They were engineers and teachers in the countries they fled, and now they are nannies and busboys. Highly educated ones.

There...my anecdotes are just as valid as yours.


Riiight. All those guys riding bikes on the sidewalk were engineers and teachers back home in Mexico? Paid in cash pays taxes how? Living in illegal apartments that don't pay more in taxes, as their kids get over $20K/year in free education, school lunches, after school programs, ESL costs . . . who get sick and use the emergency room as their primary doctor, which means we pay more in our premiums to cover it?
guess what, many illegals do pay taxes and get few, if any, benefits.

Posted on: 1/28 11:10
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K-Lo2 wrote:
The majority of illegals in Jersey City work their butts off at two or more jobs and pay taxes to avoid detection. They were engineers and teachers in the countries they fled, and now they are nannies and busboys. Highly educated ones.

There...my anecdotes are just as valid as yours.


Riiight. All those guys riding bikes on the sidewalk were engineers and teachers back home in Mexico? Paid in cash pays taxes how? Living in illegal apartments that don't pay more in taxes, as their kids get over $20K/year in free education, school lunches, after school programs, ESL costs . . . who get sick and use the emergency room as their primary doctor, which means we pay more in our premiums to cover it?

Posted on: 1/28 10:28
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No, it means the majority of illegals who come here are poor and rely on taxpayers for many services for housing and education. We place our money there instead of replacing bridges and tunnels. We are also competing for the same housing stock. We are not supporting services for our seniors, instead the money goes to illegals and their children.



Don't forget they also take your parking.

Posted on: 1/28 10:23
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The majority of illegals in Jersey City work their butts off at two or more jobs and pay taxes to avoid detection. They were engineers and teachers in the countries they fled, and now they are nannies and busboys. Highly educated ones.

There...my anecdotes are just as valid as yours.

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Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent. Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population


No, it means the majority of illegals who come here are poor and rely on taxpayers for many services for housing and education. We place our money there instead of replacing bridges and tunnels. We are also competing for the same housing stock. We are not supporting services for our seniors, instead the money goes to illegals and their children.

Posted on: 1/28 8:45
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles ... k-control-of-germany.html

How the Nazis Took Control of Germany
Hitler was not that popular when he first took office, but the Nazis quickly changed that, for the simple reason that power magnifies the ideas of those who hold it

Today, Jan. 27, marks the 72nd anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. That event did not mark the end of the Holocaust—gassings continued until the eve of Hitler’s suicide on April 30, 1945, and thousands more died of the effects of starvation and mistreatment at places like Belsen even weeks after their liberation.

But Jan. 27 should put us in mind of the beginnings. How did this happen? In particular, how could Germany, by all outward indications a civilized and modern country, become a persecuting society, brutally indifferent to the fates of anyone outside its supposed “people’s community”?

These questions should worry people for all time.

Adolf Hitler was a minority choice to lead his country; when he took office, roughly 55 percent of Germans had never voted for him. Anti-semitism was prevalent in German culture but by no means dominant or respectable. The nation’s elites (the establishment) generally regarded the Nazi führer with disdain and mistrust and doubted his capacity to run a government, given his complete lack of experience at doing so. The consensus about the Nazis’ wild-eyed promises was captured by the oft-repeated German proverb, “Nothing is eaten as hot as it’s cooked.”

Six years later, most Germans were acquiescing, and many of them were trying to benefit from, the complete humiliation and dispossession of German Jews, their demotion to “subjects” of the Reich, and their forced expulsion from the country. Three more years on, most Germans, including those elite corporate leaders and civil servants who scorned Hitler in 1933, were not just turning a blind eye to, but facilitating enslavement and mass murder… and finding a great many helpers in the Axis-occupied and Axis-allied regions of Europe.

The key to understanding the transformation of Germans’ behavior is straightforward: power magnifies the ideas of those who hold it. Power enabled the Nazi regime to unleash the haters, to intimidate the squeamish, and to change the moral valence of prejudice from something frowned upon to something glorified as patriotic. Once that happened, individual self-interest took care of the rest.


Above all, power enabled the propagandists for Nazism to divide the world relentlessly into Us vs. Them and to shut down more nuanced perspectives. To Germans, the world became a perpetual struggle between poor, virtuous, and victimized Us, and malevolent, conspiratorial, and implacable Them. In such an unforgiving environment, all means of self-defense were justified, including preemptively striking Them—taking their rights away, concentrating them in camps and ghettos, wiping them out—before they supposedly had a chance to do their worst.

Demonization of “Them” is always the first step toward persecution and genocide. And an essential prerequisite for demonization is its proponents’ sense of victimization, of having been or being about to be robbed of a birthright. The adherents of modern anti-semitism, not only in Germany but elsewhere in Europe, were people displaced and diminished by the Industrial Revolution and threatened by the specter of communism.

In our own day, the devotees of nativist populism, not only in the U.S. but also in Europe, are people declassed and disoriented by the digital revolution and alarmed by the rise of Islamism. Will they go the way of the Nazis toward ever escalating paranoia and persecution?


Only if governments help them. Populist movements, on their own, can’t make persecuting societies or generate genocides. These phenomena need office-holders to countenance, stimulate, and implement hatred.

Only when powerful leaders choose to let discrimination and violence take hold, and then to accelerate these lusts, does systematic degradation, let alone mass murder, result.

That is the challenge the Holocaust poses all these years later: Which way will political leaders go? Toward feeding angry and vengeful segments of public opinion or toward promoting pluralism and progress? Because the prospects look chancy right now, we should all recall the words of another German proverb—“Beware the Beginnings”—and be ready to act on it.

Peter Hayes is professor of history and German and Theodore Zev Weiss Holocaust Educational Foundation professor of Holocaust studies emeritus at Northwestern University. W. W. Norton & Co. published his new book, Why? Explaining the Holocaust, on Jan. 17.


Posted on: 1/28 7:53
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