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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Home away from home
 
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Posted on: 2016/9/20 9:09
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Large Explosion in Chelsea - 135 W. 23rd - Dumpster Destroyed
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Posted on: 2016/9/20 6:10
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Not too shy to talk
 
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Asif,
I appreciate your comment, but I do not agree with some of it. Still, I hope you can shed more light on the matter. After Mohammad experienced his divine revelation, he did, for the first 13 years preach mostly peacefully to the Arabs in Mecca claiming to be the last Prophet of the God of Abraham, and as you said, to unite and restore order. In that time, he recruited about 150 followers...about 10 a year, most of whom were family and friends. It should be noted there were no Jews in Mecca to challenge his assertion. Then was driven from Mecca and went to Medina, and things changed. Medina was roughly 50% Jewish. After the Jews in Medina did not believe him to be their prophet, he killed them. For the next 9 years, he turned from a peaceful "preacher" to a politician and a conquerer. In that short span he converted the entire Arabian peninsula of roughly 100,000 people into Islam. He did this through 100 acts of violent jihad. Not the inner struggle version you were referring to, though I am not denying there is a spiritual jihad in Islam. Very fascinating, no question. So yes, there are many beautiful passages to be quoted from the Koran. However, many of these are from his earlier days in Mecca. But for every peaceful quote, one can find terrifying passages aimed at dis-believers that are in direct contradiction to earlier passages. And as you know, In Islam, they are both true and a Muslim is to believe both. Even during the time of Mohammad, his followers questioned the contradictions. And to that Mohammad basically said, the latter is more important, or more true. That is why so many extremists can insist they are the truer Muslims. They are literally following Mohammed's example. It is the latter where we find many of Islam's violent passages directed at the dis-believers, or as to what apologists now refer to as the "enemy". And this is where the challenge lies to level headed, well intentioned Muslims. How do you deal with a dualistic religion that at first glance, calls one to submission, or peace, and then makes an about face and commands death and destruction to all non-muslims? My last point, concerning "Peoples of the Book", i.e. Christians and Jews. 9:29 Make war on those who have received the Scriptures [Jews and Christians] but do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day. They do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden. The Christians and Jews do not follow the religion of truth until they submit and pay the poll tax [jizya] and they are humiliated. "Make War" with a group who does not believe in your religion does not sound like a defensive strategy, as you stated.
Posted on: 2016/9/20 4:15
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This link is a better timeline than what Asif posted. It has to do with battles and military might not peace.
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/notes/islamchron.html
Posted on: 2016/9/20 3:20
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http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,175987,00.html
There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, and Islam is the world's fastest-growing religion. If the evil carnage we witnessed on Sept. 11 were typical of the faith, and Islam truly inspired and justified such violence, its growth and the increasing presence of Muslims in both Europe and the U.S. would be a terrifying prospect. Fortunately, this is not the case. The very word Islam, which means "surrender," is related to the Arabic salam, or peace. When the Prophet Muhammad brought the inspired scripture known as the Koran to the Arabs in the early 7th century A.D., a major part of his mission was devoted precisely to bringing an end to the kind of mass slaughter we witnessed in New York City and Washington. Pre-Islamic Arabia was caught up in a vicious cycle of warfare, in which tribe fought tribe in a pattern of vendetta and countervendetta. Muhammad himself survived several assassination attempts, and the early Muslim community narrowly escaped extermination by the powerful city of Mecca. The Prophet had to fight a deadly war in order to survive, but as soon as he felt his people were probably safe, he devoted his attention to building up a peaceful coalition of tribes and achieved victory by an ingenious and inspiring campaign of nonviolence. When he died in 632, he had almost single-handedly brought peace to war-torn Arabia. Because the Koran was revealed in the context of an all-out war, several passages deal with the conduct of armed struggle. Warfare was a desperate business on the Arabian Peninsula. A chieftain was not expected to spare survivors after a battle, and some of the Koranic injunctions seem to share this spirit. Muslims are ordered by God to "slay [enemies] wherever you find them!" (4: 89). Extremists such as Osama bin Laden like to quote such verses but do so selectively. They do not include the exhortations to peace, which in almost every case follow these more ferocious passages: "Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them" (4: 90). In the Koran, therefore, the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2: 190). Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2: 191; 2: 217) or to preserve decent values (4: 75; 22: 40). The Koran quotes the Torah, the Jewish scriptures, which permits people to retaliate eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but like the Gospels, the Koran suggests that it is meritorious to forgo revenge in a spirit of charity (5: 45). Hostilities must be brought to an end as quickly as possible and must cease the minute the enemy sues for peace (2: 192-3). Islam is not addicted to war, and jihad is not one of its "pillars," or essential practices. The primary meaning of the word jihad is not "holy war" but "struggle." It refers to the difficult effort that is needed to put God's will into practice at every level--personal and social as well as political. A very important and much quoted tradition has Muhammad telling his companions as they go home after a battle, "We are returning from the lesser jihad [the battle] to the greater jihad," the far more urgent and momentous task of extirpating wrongdoing from one's own society and one's own heart. Islam did not impose itself by the sword. In a statement in which the Arabic is extremely emphatic, the Koran insists, "There must be no coercion in matters of faith!" (2: 256). Constantly Muslims are enjoined to respect Jews and Christians, the "People of the Book," who worship the same God (29: 46). In words quoted by Muhammad in one of his last public sermons, God tells all human beings, "O people! We have formed you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another" (49: 13)--not to conquer, convert, subjugate, revile or slaughter but to reach out toward others with intelligence and understanding. So why the suicide bombing, the hijacking and the massacre of innocent civilians? Far from being endorsed by the Koran, this killing violates some of its most sacred precepts. But during the 20th century, the militant form of piety often known as fundamentalism erupted in every major religion as a rebellion against modernity. Every fundamentalist movement I have studied in Judaism, Christianity and Islam is convinced that liberal, secular society is determined to wipe out religion. Fighting, as they imagine, a battle for survival, fundamentalists often feel justified in ignoring the more compassionate principles of their faith. But in amplifying the more aggressive passages that exist in all our scriptures, they distort the tradition. It would be as grave a mistake to see Osama bin Laden as an authentic representative of Islam as to consider James Kopp, the alleged killer of an abortion provider in Buffalo, N.Y., a typical Christian or Baruch Goldstein, who shot 29 worshipers in the Hebron mosque in 1994 and died in the attack, a true martyr of Israel. The vast majority of Muslims, who are horrified by the atrocity of Sept. 11, must reclaim their faith from those who have so violently hijacked it. Karen Armstrong has written many books on religion, including Islam: A Short History, published last year by Modern Library Quote:
Posted on: 2016/9/20 2:43
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Not too shy to talk
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Dolomiti
You are correct. Christians have committed crimes. Some have even done so in the name of Christ. Some were politically motivated. But let me make one clear distinction, because I find you're not making a fair argument and missing important point. Unlike Islam, Christianity does not have an abundant hate filled doctrine or creed that proposes death and destruction to non-believers. In fact, they have to turn the other cheek. That's not to say they are above deplorable acts, (looking at you, priests and abortion clinic bombers) but it is in direct contradiction with New Testament scripture. Islamic doctrine commands persuasion, subjugation, and if you're not a "people of the Book", then death. This is not a detail or a footnote. This is unfortunately, THE driving factor of the spread of this religion/ideology. In addition, it is many a devout Muslim's solemn duty to ultimately spread and instill Sharia. And unlike the West's, separation of Church and State, such a concept does not exist in political Islam. As far as US based Islamic terrorism, I do agree with you. We should not be overly concerned or afraid of it here in the States. Not yet, anyway. But I can't help but sense you're downplaying the dangers of home based Islamic terror because criticizing it does not align with your liberal convictions. What we should wake up to is the slow, deliberate, methodology that Islam continues to project on the West. We measure time with a watch. Islam measures with a calendar. Let me be clear again, I am not suggesting all Muslim's share this view, therefore I am not vilifying all Muslims. But no one can deny their doctrine. And though I wish I knew more Muslim's personally, I would love to know how they contend with the hate espoused by Islam and square that in our open and free society. Lastly, if Liberals openly criticize and ridicule Christianity, why are they so afraid to do the same for Islam? (Bill Maher the only exception I know.) Why? Because in my experience, today's Liberals will defend minorities at any cost, regardless of minorities' actions, creed and mindset.
Posted on: 2016/9/20 1:44
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These stats are useless. Terrorism feeds on people's fears. How would the numbers look if you used oh maybe 2001 to prove your point?
Posted on: 2016/9/20 0:12
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Haji got taken alive and will be easy to tap for intel as such a rank f'king amateur who lived with mummy and daddy Haji pigs.
Looks like Yelp is coming in handy with reviews of the fried chicken they sold to support their filthy islamic lifestyle in Amerika. https://www.yelp.com/biz/first-american-fried-chicken-elizabeth
Posted on: 2016/9/19 22:48
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Great post, and something every liberal here should take to heart.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 22:26
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You are the classic example of someone justifying these actions on the left. As non-immigrants they killed nearly 3,000 people. As immigrants that can spend the next 100 or more plus years, killing more people. Liberals are dangerous people.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 22:24
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and for the record, those 9/11 hijackers were not immigrants.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 22:07
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There is no deep thinking here, radical Muslim theology is not compatible in any sense to western values and they believe it their destiny to destroy anything non-Muslim. This is a global issue, Chechnya produced Muslim killers that blew up the Boston Marathon and 10 years ago killed 777 teachers and kids in their school. They kidnapped 300+ young women in Nigeria. They are a threat on every continent. If someone can demonstrate a way to control / eliminate this real threat in the USA without restricting our own liberties, I will listen. Temporarily closing the border to permanent/temporary residency and the visa exceptions can be handled at our embassies, as they always were in the past. I can not see how the Obama/Clinton crowd can sleep peacefully at night knowing their ineffective policies and political naivet? have directly lead to the murder or maiming of thousands of innocent families in America.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 21:34
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Not too shy to talk
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Aside from the dangerous idiot who detonated the bombs in our area, there is a much more sinister, deep rooted problem:
Political Islam coupled with the Left's intent on creating conditions to help foster it. Before most of you go blaming other religious groups for their so-called terrorism, just know this-- Most religions, be it Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, etc. do not have upwards of 40-50% of their doctrine admonishing the "non'believers". Islam does. Please do not take my word for it, but read the Koran, Haddiths and Sira. These 3 books are the basis of Islam. All else is commentary or interpretations. That is not to say all muslims wish harm on non-believers, but far too much of their earliest sacred text commands it. Yes, some of you will site examples of hate in the bible, but with few exceptions, it does specifically call to exterminate or subjugate the non-believers. The New Testament you may find even less. Until "moderate" Muslims can openly admit their doctrine does not bode well for non-believers at the hands of other Muslims, we will never have a real conversation. Until liberals can learn some of the facts as to what animates terrorism and more insidiously, the spread of Sharia and supporters thereof, and not immediately label those with a different perspective as haters, bigots, racists and Islamophobes, then the screaming match and name calling will not end. I would call upon all peaceful Muslims to denounce these acts. Maybe place banners squarely across your Mosques to express you rebuke these acts. I would call upon all liberals to stop vilifying anyone who dares criticize political Islam. Shouldn't we measure religion by the character of the people it produces? This should be applied to all religions. Why are some insulated from criticism?
Posted on: 2016/9/19 21:28
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True, and Congress has quite a bit of latitude over immigration law. What the Constitution does is prevent Congress from passing laws that establish a religion, and "No Muslims Allowed" would definitely violate that restriction. It would violate international laws, it would basically be unenforceable... the list goes on. It would also play right into the hands of the terrorists. They love the idea that the US is vilifying all Muslims because of the actions of a small few. That merely reinforces their narratives that the US is anti-Muslim, and willfully discriminates against and attacks Muslims around the world. Not to mention, as I have, that it wasn't all that long ago that the bomb-throwers were right-wing extremists, Irish Catholics, hippies, Italian anarchists... Somehow, we don't think of Irish Catholics or Italians as inherently violent anymore. Go figure. Quote: When this law has been used (Carter and Clinton used it) the ban has been on specific nationalities. Banning nationalities is not unconstitutional, as it is not establishing a religious test. It also won't actually work. Especially since we aren't going to require all visitors to the US to submit to a 2 year long vetting process. Quote: The "benefit" is that the refugees are human beings, escaping from a conflict that we have gotten involved in and exacerbated by decades of meddling in the affairs of their nation and their neighbors -- including the pointless and trumped-up invasion of Iraq. Syrians are fleeing a bloody war, and need the help of many nations. Seriously? Straw man arguments, is that the best you can do? I never suggested anything of that scale. That said, our ability to host war refugees is certainly greater than zero. Our responsibility is also well above zero, as our invasion of Iraq and funding of anti-Assad rebels (of questionable loyalties) clearly destabilized the region, and thus presented ISIS with an opportunity to seize territory. Quote: The United States has roughly about 5% of the world's population. A majority of the world in one fashion or another would qualify being let in to the USA by your definition. So how many do we let in? Please, try not to be completely ridiculous. The United States is one of the wealthiest nations in the world, and we host a tiny fraction of the world's refugees. The vast majority of the refugees wind up in nations that are ill prepared to handle them, either due to poor infrastructure or their own issues of stability. For example, there are approximately 13.5 million refugees from the Syrian war. About half (6.6 million) are displaced to other parts of Syria; 4.8 million have fled to Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq -- hardly wealthy nations, and their presence is destabilizing in many of those nations. A little less than 1 million have fled to Europe. The United States has taken in less than 10,000. We can certainly do a little better than taking in 0.07% of Syrian war refugees.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 21:19
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Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:49
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You are another example of a liberal who is just as dangerous as a terrorist. For the record, I worked in Manhattan after 9/11. I am not afraid but I also recognized danger. There is no need to bring over more terrorists to our country.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:43
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This guy planted a bomb right on the train tracks, along with NYC and Seaside Heights. If he wasn't a complete idiot, he could have killed a lot of people. And there are others who are more intelligent who share the same goals. That doesn't scare you?
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:42
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And yet just because people don't "feel safe" doesn't mean they actually in any significant danger. If terrorism scares you, then using the same logic, you should never enter a car, since you have an exponentially higher chance in dying in an auto accident.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:38
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I did not want to go into too much history but the USA did have battles with Muslims known as the Barbary Wars, it is part of the Marine's hymn in the word Tripoli. They were taking American ships demanding the USA to pay ransom. As I mentioned earlier, Northern Africa had a large Christian population but was wiped out with the sword of Islam. This is not our first encounter with terrorists. The terrorism is continuing on. Thomas Jefferson actually had a copy of the Koran in his library to try to figure out their religion. This is going back at the beginning of our country's history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:36
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The 9/11 remark was intended for Yvonne. I certainly don't need a coloring book history lesson from you, though. In fact, if we are rounding up people to ship out of the country for fear of the damage they might do, why don't we start with basic intelligence testing? Find a nice place where you can all go and enjoy no services, hate freely and shoot each other at will.
Have a nice day.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:36
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It's equally as funny to announce that you know with certainty my motivations for deciding not to post on this thread anymore. (For those keeping score at home - the fact that this singular bomber is reportedly Muslim is not the reason). Carry on.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:28
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Please quote when I said 9/11 was the beginning of this. I'll save you some time: I didn't. And you are the one demonstrating a "remarkable lack of historical understanding" by implying our current problems are rooted in U.S. foreign policy. In fact Western civilization has had lots of problems from Muslim aggression going back centuries. Here is just one example to help with your education. In the Barbary slave trades, Muslim countries pillaged European cities and took more than one million white Christian slaves spanning a period of centuries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade "The Ohio State University history Professor Robert Davis describes the White Slave Trade as minimized by most modern historians in his book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 1500?1800 (Palgrave Macmillan). Davis estimates that 1 million to 1.25 million white Christian Europeans were enslaved in North Africa, from the beginning of the 16th century to the middle of the 18th, by slave traders from Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli alone (these numbers do not include the European people which were enslaved by Morocco and by other raiders and traders of the Mediterranean Sea coast),[1] and roughly 700 Americans were held captive in this region as slaves between 1785 and 1815.[2]"
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:19
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Trump is a very flawed presidential candidate. I will not deny that, but people are voting for him because they do not feel safe. How can you feel safe when liberals have an agenda of letting in more people who want to kill Americans? Trump's candidacy is due to the liberal agenda in this country including the shipping of jobs overseas. I remember when NAFTA was signed by Bill Clinton and good paying factory jobs went away. So yes, Trump is a flawed candidate but the idea of letting in 500,000 more immigrants is quite scary.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:16
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Wrong and wrong. Germany has the largest muslim population in Europe and in percentage terms, Bulgaria has a much larger proportion of muslims. As was said previously, France's problems are rooted more in the actions of the French (treatment of immigrants, colonial misdeeds) than those of muslim immigrants. Clinton will make the situation worse not because of immigration but because she will continue the misguided war-mongering policies that created the mess to begin with. Blather on and on about how liberals faked the moon landing, Obama plays poker with bin Laden every Thursday in the White House basement and MSNBC is coming for your guns or whatever it is you people are onto, but in the end this is all very simple: you reap what you sow. Aggressive interventionist policies, indiscriminate bombing, suppression of human rights, etc. have brought us to where we are. To think that 9/11 was the beginning of this shows a remarkable lack of historical understanding.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:15
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First, I find it interesting that you accuse me of not being educated when YOU are the one who decided what I was referring to with regard to what is and isn't constitutional. Then you went on a long rant. You say that Trump has "proposed solutions"...why not tell us how what he has proposed will come into effect AND be effective? According to you, Trump has solutions that I "may not want to hear." Yes, you are right. His solutions are necessary for him to stop tweeting in the middle of the night. They include limiting free speech, firing the press when he disagrees with their reporting, "firing generals" who disagree with him, ridiculing our military, blatantly lying about saying things that are documented and verifiable. If this is YOUR idea of who should run our country, go vote for him. What can I say? Jump back into that basket and have a good day.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 20:00
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No, you've described the Clinton family perfectly!
Posted on: 2016/9/19 19:59
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utterly deplorable
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Posted on: 2016/9/19 19:51
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We don't have to allow refugees to enter the US. However, the Constitution is very clear that we cannot bar people from entering the US on the basis of religion. The US Constitution does not cover foreign nationals, who have no residency status, who are outside this country. Your statement would apply to a US resident or citizen, not a foreigner applying for say a student or tourist visa. Here is what the law states: Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, and it says, that ?Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States? he can keep them out for ?such period as he shall deem necessary.? The legal issues will be with our immigration and visa legal agreements with foreign nations, as we would be barring say Muslims from the EU while allowing non-Muslims in. When this law has been used (Carter and Clinton used it) the ban has been on specific nationalities. The "benefit" is that the refugees are human beings, escaping from a conflict that we have gotten involved in and exacerbated by decades of meddling in the affairs of their nation and their neighbors -- including the pointless and trumped-up invasion of Iraq. Syrians are fleeing a bloody war, and need the help of many nations. Is there a limit to our "generosity"? How many people do we let in? 20 million?, 50 million? 100 million? No limit at all? The United States has roughly about 5% of the world's population. A majority of the world in one fashion or another would qualify being let in to the USA by your definition. So how many do we let in?
Posted on: 2016/9/19 19:48
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If it's only a "whisper" that converts Muslim immigrants into dangerous fanatics, they have no business being in the country to begin with. I will happily vote for the only candidate to recognize such a common sense concept, and who will do everything he can to keep these unsuitable people far away from here. As for the ones already here, Muslims are only 1% of our population. A manageable number to keep a close eye on.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 19:39
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We could shut the borders tight and that wouldn't prevent another attack, as ISIS is recruiting already-here, already-nationalized US citizens over the internet. Imagine: you're a Muslim immigrant, going about your business in a new land. Someone running for the highest office is shouting that you're not welcome, and the drumbeat just gets louder. Then a whisper comes across the internet: *WE* accept you. *THEY* don't. become one of *US* That is what has been happening in France, where the North African Muslim population is systemically ghetto'd, where women in hijabs are stripped in public, where they are not nearly as assimilated as they are here. You want that? Then by all means, vote Trump.
Posted on: 2016/9/19 19:28
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