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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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JCman24 wrote:
I hope Fletcher Gensamer was out with his radar gun making sure they didn't go over 5 MPH.


Hi JCman24. Thanks for the mention. You can call me Fletch.

Here is the thing. It's a PEDESTRIAN plaza. Even last year they had signs saying no bicycles allowed. And just so you know a bicycle is a machine, a vehicle having two wheels, pedals, a crank, a chain, gears, a steering wheel, and a seat. A bicycle is also very capable of going very fast.

Both last year during the trial, and even recently in the two weeks since it has re-opened, I have seen bicyclists wiz on by, and have seen several near misses. And folks can be seriously injured if hit by a bike. And when you are riding on a bike, you might not even see toddlers running around.

So you can be as snarky and cynical as you want, I'm just concerned about people's safety. And I have no problems getting attacks from you or anyone on that. At the very minimum, folks should dismount and walk their bikes in the plaza. Do we really need to wait for an accident to happen?

Regarding enforcement, I will leave that up to Jersey City's Finest.

Thanks again for the mention.

Fletch

P.S. here is an article for you to read.
http://www.bicyclelaw.com/news/n.cfm/ ... s-than-previously-thought
i agree that adult bicyclist should not be biking in a pedestrian zone

Posted on: 2015/7/2 3:45
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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JCman24 wrote:
I hope Fletcher Gensamer was out with his radar gun making sure they didn't go over 5 MPH.


Hi JCman24. Thanks for the mention. You can call me Fletch.

Here is the thing. It's a PEDESTRIAN plaza. Even last year they had signs saying no bicycles allowed. And just so you know a bicycle is a machine, a vehicle having two wheels, pedals, a crank, a chain, gears, a steering wheel, and a seat. A bicycle is also very capable of going very fast.

Both last year during the trial, and even recently in the two weeks since it has re-opened, I have seen bicyclists wiz on by, and have seen several near misses. And folks can be seriously injured if hit by a bike. And when you are riding on a bike, you might not even see toddlers running around.

So you can be as snarky and cynical as you want, I'm just concerned about people's safety. And I have no problems getting attacks from you or anyone on that. At the very minimum, folks should dismount and walk their bikes in the plaza. Do we really need to wait for an accident to happen?

Regarding enforcement, I will leave that up to Jersey City's Finest.

Thanks again for the mention.

Fletch

P.S. here is an article for you to read.
http://www.bicyclelaw.com/news/n.cfm/ ... s-than-previously-thought

Posted on: 2015/7/2 2:46
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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Yvonne wrote:
You are confused, he doesn't have the authority. It is similar to Christie not having the authority to cause a traffic jam or the President declaring war. I suggest you read the Faulkner Act. Actually, the council do have the authority to make this a serious issue but Fulop picked his council well, they represent him not the public.

First of all, you are obviously wrong about the authority aspect since the road is clearly closed. Second, I pointed out the fact that Christie can close roads, his problem was with the reason behind it. Lastly, presidents can issue police actions which are the same as wars, just not declared as one. If you are confused about the last point I remind you of Vietnam.

Until you point to a specific law that says the mayor can't shut down a road, you really are just shouting at clouds with the same tired lines...

Posted on: 2015/7/1 14:28
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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hero69 wrote:
ihave seen many kids just bicyclying their precious, little hearts out on newark street. i was sort of sad because i'm sure tey live in apartments with their abatement-loving parents who really won't have time to patronize the new bars that are opening up


I hope Fletcher Gensamer was out with his radar gun making sure they didn't go over 5 MPH.

Posted on: 2015/7/1 3:41
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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ihave seen many kids just bicyclying their precious, little hearts out on newark street. i was sort of sad because i'm sure tey live in apartments with their abatement-loving parents who really won't have time to patronize the new bars that are opening up

Posted on: 2015/7/1 2:22
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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moobycow wrote:
Didn't de Blasio just close portions of the roads in Central Park without any sort of vote?

Not sure if he did it without approval Mooby, but if he did my reaction is the same. Government by imperial fiat is a BIG problem.

One thing we don't need worry about is road closings in our Parks. We're doing the opposite in Jersey City. We're going to build a bridge across Mill creek connecting Phillip St to Jersey Avenue so that Turnpike traffic can exit directly through Liberty State Park. Immediately after crossing the new bridge all that traffic hits a badly aligned grade level-crossing for the HBLR on Jersey Ave, and then traffic lights at Jersey & Grand. Oh, and we're spending the $10 million it costs without doing a traffic study to determine the impact. Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't heard a single utterance from our Mayor about this plan.... Maybe it was already approved by imperial decree as well?


The Mayor's representative at the public hearing regarding the building of the bridge said that the process so far has been done in cooperation and with support of the Mayor's office. Neither the Turnpike Authority - who will built and pay for the bridge before handing it over to JC - nor the JC administration did any traffic study on possible traffic flow after the bridge has been built.

Posted on: 2015/7/1 2:18
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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moobycow wrote:
Didn't de Blasio just close portions of the roads in Central Park without any sort of vote?

Not sure if he did it without approval Mooby, but if he did my reaction is the same. Government by imperial fiat is a BIG problem.

One thing we don't need worry about is road closings in our Parks. We're doing the opposite in Jersey City. We're going to build a bridge across Mill creek connecting Phillip St to Jersey Avenue so that Turnpike traffic can exit directly through Liberty State Park. Immediately after crossing the new bridge all that traffic hits a badly aligned grade level-crossing for the HBLR on Jersey Ave, and then traffic lights at Jersey & Grand. Oh, and we're spending the $10 million it costs without doing a traffic study to determine the impact. Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't heard a single utterance from our Mayor about this plan.... Maybe it was already approved by imperial decree as well?

Posted on: 2015/7/1 1:00
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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I agree with Bamb00zle. I like the plaza, and think it is a good idea. I do not think that is incompatible with following the proper procedure. I could be wrong about this, but I have also been told the Harsimus Cove Association felt slighted as they were initially told by city hall there would be a period of time before the opening of the plaza, to address a number of unresolved concerns. If it is true that never materialized, and the closure obviously occurred before a vote by city council on the ordinance, I think it is only appropriate to feel as though it was mishandled. I voted for Fulop, but that does not mean I want him to forgo the necessary procedure. There seems to be a lot of outlook which says, ?it just one block, everybody loves it, whats the big deal?? But if that is the case (and I?m sure there are plenty of varying opinions, as there always are), then the reverse is also true - ?it?s just one block, most people want it, lets work out the kinks, get a solid plan together (including an artistic rendition of what to expect - it currently is just straight up ugly), and do it the right way by first passing an ordinance.?

Posted on: 2015/6/30 23:55
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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Didn't de Blasio just close portions of the roads in Central Park without any sort of vote?

Posted on: 2015/6/30 22:55
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It's a very ominous sign to me when government disregards established law-making processes. It looks to me that was the case here as there is no emergency repair necessitating a temporary closure. On the contrary, the present situation is a non-emergency, no repairs required, permanent closure of a public right-of-way. I strongly support a plaza along Newark Ave, but abhor with a passion government by imperial fiat. Open the street and then do this according to the established rules for non-emergency, permanent street closures. It will give this plaza the legitimacy it must have, if it is to be a permanent change.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:16
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Yvonne wrote:
Fulop picked his council well, they represent him not the public.


Weird, I clearly remember voting for some council candidates and not others. How did Fulop manage to pick the winners?

Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:03
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You are confused, he doesn't have the authority. It is similar to Christie not having the authority to cause a traffic jam or the President declaring war. I suggest you read the Faulkner Act. Actually, the council do have the authority to make this a serious issue but Fulop picked his council well, they represent him not the public.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:32
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Too bad I don't know what Yvonne looks like, because she is NEVER allowed to enjoy the pedestrian plaza!

Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:02
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Yvonne wrote:
And I will repeat, Fulop doesn't have that authority. His authority is to spend the money not create the laws on street closing. I am sure if there was a loophole the Fulop's associates would quote state statues that he has that authority. But he doesn't.

What law has he broken? You've been asked this before but all you repeat is the same tired trope that he "doesn't have the authority" yet he very plainly does.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 19:09
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And I will repeat, Fulop doesn't have that authority. His authority is to spend the money not create the laws on street closing. I am sure if there was a loophole the Fulop's associates would quote state statues that he has that authority. But he doesn't.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 19:01
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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Yvonne wrote:
It is not done legally, it is the reason we have laws. Anyone can drive their car in that closed off area and beat any ticket. Why should I or anyone follow laws when the chief executive does not? Fulop is on a power trip. I am talking about the process not the street. If he does this, what else is he doing?

I'll repeat: It is the closing of a street.

If a street is closed for repairs, do they go through a massive legislative process? No. The person in charge of organizing the repairs just simply shuts the street down. Fulop has done the exact same thing.

There have been multiple posts on this thread pointing out that no laws were broken. No legislative process was superseded.

The GW Bridge scandal wasn't a scandal because roads were shut down. It wasn't even a scandal because of how the roads were closed. The problem was in the reason behind it. Shutting down a road for pedestrians isn't malicious nor done for retribution. It is a net positive for the city, which is the only impact it has.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 14:40
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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It is not done legally, it is the reason we have laws. Anyone can drive their car in that closed off area and beat any ticket. Why should I or anyone follow laws when the chief executive does not? Fulop is on a power trip. I am talking about the process not the street. If he does this, what else is he doing?

Posted on: 2015/6/30 14:31
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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Yvonne wrote:
No, I am posting this because when he runs for governor, there will be a paper trail on why he should not be governor. No one wants another Chris Christie, besides, Chris Christie has stupid followers too. Look at the Bridgegate scandal. So I am not impressed by the attacks from dtjcview or others. Every leader has stupid followers. This is no exception.

Yvonne, we're talking about the closing of a one block stretch of street. This isn't taking a house away from someone.

If this portion of the street was a park for years, would you advocate for the park to be bulldozed for a street? Look at the way Hamilton Park cuts Jersey Ave and re-routes people around. Should Hamilton Park have a street paved in the middle?

The reality is that this city needs areas like this to become a pedestrian plaza. The quicker it becomes permanent, the quicker that it could be beautified.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 14:14
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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No, I am posting this because when he runs for governor, there will be a paper trail on why he should not be governor. No one wants another Chris Christie, besides, Chris Christie has stupid followers too. Look at the Bridgegate scandal. So I am not impressed by the attacks from dtjcview or others. Every leader has stupid followers. This is no exception.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 14:00
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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Yvonne wrote:
This is what Auggie Torres wrote on the Political Insider June 27th:
-- Glad to see that the City Council introduced an ordinance to make the Newark Avenue pedestrian plaza permanent. It runs from Erie to Grove Street. Oh wait, wasn't it already opened the previous week? Gee, Fulop pulled an Obama and issued an executive ? or is that an administrative ? order to get it done before getting it legally approved. It is good to be king.


Yvonne. Your idiocy makes Fulop's job so much easier. Is he paying you?

Posted on: 2015/6/30 3:02
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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Yvonne wrote:
This is what Auggie Torres wrote on the Political Insider June 27th:
-- Glad to see that the City Council introduced an ordinance to make the Newark Avenue pedestrian plaza permanent. It runs from Erie to Grove Street. Oh wait, wasn't it already opened the previous week? Gee, Fulop pulled an Obama and issued an executive ? or is that an administrative ? order to get it done before getting it legally approved. It is good to be king.


Zzz

Yay plaza

Posted on: 2015/6/30 2:46
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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This is what Auggie Torres wrote on the Political Insider June 27th:
-- Glad to see that the City Council introduced an ordinance to make the Newark Avenue pedestrian plaza permanent. It runs from Erie to Grove Street. Oh wait, wasn't it already opened the previous week? Gee, Fulop pulled an Obama and issued an executive ? or is that an administrative ? order to get it done before getting it legally approved. It is good to be king.

Posted on: 2015/6/30 2:03
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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Timing is everything. I have a friend who lives above the plaza. He doesn?t mind the noise and festivities (though I could imagine it being awful if you do not want to live above a party some of the time). I have spend a few nights hanging out there and I?ve noticed that during peak hours, when you have families, bar patrons etc hanging around, it can be an awesome and lively vibe. But leaving late at night, past the midnight hour, it has a sketchier and less welcoming feel. I love the concept, but am wary of the execution. I do not like that the ordinance has not passed, and the plaza been hastily executed. I know it is not permanent, but it sends the wrong message to us as citizens. Essentially, it says, ?we can hurry this through, seemingly without much planning (are there plans? I?m asking genuinely - urban planner or architect renderings?), and worry about silly little details like ordinances and doing it the right way with a clear vision later.? Also, I?m not into the whole Times Square thing. Times Square could not be farther from what Newark Ave is - a major thoroughfare in the heart of NYC vs. a small two lane street that most people seem to agree has little effect on traffic patterns when closed. Let?s be honest, for what Times Square is, NYC has done a pretty good job of making it work. But there is nothing objectively beautiful about it, and I would hope that we aspire to something far more appealing than what had to be settled for given the nature of Times Square.

Posted on: 2015/6/27 18:53
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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It should be pointed out that the Newark Avenue Plaza is not a permanent thing, so anything and everything that is used or put in place needs to be removable without leaving much of a trail.

You can't oppose the plaza, and demand that it not be a permanent modification, and then complain that it lacks features and amenities. If we want the plaza to reach its potential, then we must allow it to be a permanent fixture.

On a separate thread I just posted about spending my evening there last night. It was GREAT. People bar hopping, congregating with friends, some guys playing with a soccer ball, even a few young families walking around. It was a fun vibe. I really think this plaza is a great addition to DTJC.

Posted on: 2015/6/27 17:30
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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duh wrote:
The pedestrian plaza. It's ugly. Not much to it. Park tables without the park. Why so easily impressed? Shouldn't we be disappointed it seems ill conceived and is not beautiful? I know, I know...the potential. JC is famous for unactualized potential. To badly paraphrase a tacky Fulop tagline....The Plaza...Make It Happen.


+1 The other day it reminded me of those prison yards where inmates can keep their children with them - no shade and what looked like Sally Ann donations.


Remember what Times Sq looked like when they first closed Broadway there years ago? The Newark Ave plaza will be improved, but as mentioned, the ordinance to keep the street closed hasn't even passed yet.

Resized Image

Posted on: 2015/6/27 17:04
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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FYI, the regs authorized by the ordinance say that bicycles WILL be allowed to ride through the plaza -- slowly and carefully.

"Allowances for restricted use of bicycles and other non-motorized vehicles (skateboards, scooters, etc.) at 5 m.p.h. or less in a manner safe for pedestrians and others on the mall."

Posted on: 2015/6/27 16:15
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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It could use some work on appearance, shade, seating.

But keep in mind that it's new and (as noted below) not even under its ordinance yet. They've been doing things like grinding off the double-yellow line, painting parts green, installing bike rack corrals.

And no doubt they will continue tweaking it over the summer. The NYC ped plazas evolved over a few years.

Part of that evolution tends to come from businesses, as they bring out more sidewalk seating and decorate it, open up their fronts, etc.


Posted on: 2015/6/27 16:10
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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The pedestrian plaza. It's ugly. Not much to it. Park tables without the park. Why so easily impressed? Shouldn't we be disappointed it seems ill conceived and is not beautiful? I know, I know...the potential. JC is famous for unactualized potential. To badly paraphrase a tacky Fulop tagline....The Plaza...Make It Happen.


+1 The other day it reminded me of those prison yards where inmates can keep their children with them - no shade and what looked like Sally Ann donations.

Posted on: 2015/6/27 14:03
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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The pedestrian plaza. It's ugly. Not much to it. Park tables without the park. Why so easily impressed? Shouldn't we be disappointed it seems ill conceived and is not beautiful? I know, I know...the potential. JC is famous for unactualized potential. To badly paraphrase a tacky Fulop tagline....The Plaza...Make It Happen.

Posted on: 2015/6/27 2:45
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza -- Reopening?
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But there is a publicly accessible deck that is just as close. The doctor is probably more miffed that people dropping off patients can no longer illegally stop to drop them off, blocking traffic and causing a dangerous condition as cars have to go into oncoming traffic to get around them, as well as all the other assholes pulled up on the eastbound side. .

Posted on: 2015/6/25 20:52
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