Monroe wrote:
Nancy Grace, famed trauma doctor and forensic doctor!

The salient points have been proven by the forensic investigators and autopsy reports, as well as credible eyewitnesses. What Nancy Grace, or Rush Limbaugh, or Rachel Maddow opine doesn't carry any weight, nor should it. Even less weight should be paid to the obvious race-baiters.

The haters will get their way when the NYC cops get indicted for the death of the morbidly obese, career criminal, arrest resisting guy from Staten Island. Of course, rioting may still happen here if those cops get a fair trial as well.

AlexC wrote:
..
It would not be fair to pin 150 years of grievance on DW, the shooting is the tip of the iceberg and the real problems are what's underneath.
...

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:

Somebody is awfully angry about having it pointed out that they are wrong.

If you are going to make a claim, provide the quote. I provided Wilson's. Wilson's statement says that he pulled the trigger and gun didn't go off. He does not state that Brown's superhuman strength prevented the hammer from cocking. Your reference to the FBI agents comments also does not confirm what you are saying. The agent says the gun did not go off and that Wilson's statements at the time was that Brown's hand was on the gun. Neither person is claiming that Brown's bare hands prevented the firing.

I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but I have. A human grip cannot prevent a gun from firing. Your supposition is not based in reality.

You may not like my assessment of what occurred, but the only person proving that they know dick about the case is the one you see in the mirror.

I'm upset that I am speaking to someone so woefully ignorant about the facts it isn't even funny. You are simply spreading lies. I don't like to call names, but in this case you truly are a moron.

From your link, the FBI Agent's testimony to the Grand Jury:

" Q. And then did he say which hand or hands Michael Brown had on the gun?

A. I don't believe I wrote which hand or heard which hand.

Q. Okay. So you don't recall if he said which hand he had on the gun?

A. I don't.

Q. But does he describe that they were both struggling over the gun at this point?

A. Yes.

Q. Does he describe where Michael Brown's hand or hands are on the gun?

A. He said, if he's holding the gun, he did this motion where his hand was overtop holding, Michael Brown's hand was over the gun, grabbing onto Wilson's hand . . .

A. He pointed at Brown's body through the door, pulled the trigger and nothing happened, the gun did not go off.

Officer Wilson attempted to pull the trigger again and nothing happened. Officer Wilson pulled the trigger a third time and the gun fired through the door, driver door panel. The window being down, glass flew everywhere.

I'm sorry, Brown's right hand was on the gun when it fired. "

JCMan8 wrote:
You are also lying to say that Wilson never said Brown's hand was on the gun, as he did testify to this as well. You provide a tiny snippet that the Washington Post decided to publish and act like that is all he said on the matter. Like I said, I'm dealing with a moron, so I make this post to educate the others on this forum.

MDM wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
[quote]

I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but I have. A human grip cannot prevent a gun from firing. Your supposition is not based in reality.

It can if the hammer is being blocked (the Sig Sauer P226 has an external hammer). Or if the slide is being pushed out of battery.

Also if you do fire one round and Brown's hand was gripped tight on the slide, the next round will not be chambered. Until the slide was manually pulled back, ejecting the spent round, chambering the new one, Wilson would have just kept pulling the trigger with nothing happening.

Pebble wrote:
[quote]

I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but I have. A human grip cannot prevent a gun from firing. Your supposition is not based in reality.

Pebble wrote:

Somebody is awfully angry about having it pointed out that they are wrong.

If you are going to make a claim, provide the quote. I provided Wilson's. Wilson's statement says that he pulled the trigger and gun didn't go off. He does not state that Brown's superhuman strength prevented the hammer from cocking. Your reference to the FBI agents comments also does not confirm what you are saying. The agent says the gun did not go off and that Wilson's statements at the time was that Brown's hand was on the gun. Neither person is claiming that Brown's bare hands prevented the firing.

I don't know if you've ever fired a gun, but I have. A human grip cannot prevent a gun from firing. Your supposition is not based in reality.

You may not like my assessment of what occurred, but the only person proving that they know dick about the case is the one you see in the mirror.

MDM wrote:
There is no evidence to back up the statement that Brown tried to wrestle the gun away from the officer. Police officers on the scene allowed Wilson to hold onto the gun because they stated that Wilson had control of the weapon the entire time.


There is strong evidence of a struggle:

Wilson got punch in the face.




One round was fired that went through the Wilson's car door (from the inside).

A second round was fired that grazed Brown's thumb.

The gun failing to fire when the trigger was pulled would likely be caused by two things:
1. Brown had his hand blocking the hammer.
2. Brown had his hand on the gun, pushing the slide out of battery. You would get a click from the trigger pull, but as long as the slide was being pushed back, the gun would not fire. This is why some security personnel carry revolvers still as they don't have this problem in close quarter combat.

If anyone wants to look at the evidence presented to teh grand jury, you can find it here:

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson-project/evidence.html

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:

Your post is also the first location that I read where it claims that Brown?s hand on the gun is the reason it did not go off. Even Wilson didn?t claim that.

It is the first location that you read because you have proved you are utterly uninformed about the facts of the case. It is obvious you read a couple of soundbites and formed a useless opinion, spouting misinformation in this thread. Since your ignorance of the facts is obvious, there isn't much point responding to you any more.

I'll give you a hint as to where you can read more about what actually happened: try reading your own link.

That's right, go to your Washington Post link, go to the section about the fight inside the cop car, and look at what the FBI agent has to say. Click on "see original document" and try spending two seconds to inform yourself of the facts, instead of spouting out bullshit talking points. Then maybe you won't look so foolish next time.

Pebble wrote:

Your post is also the first location that I read where it claims that Brown?s hand on the gun is the reason it did not go off. Even Wilson didn?t claim that.

JCMan8 wrote:
I think you fail to grasp the very nature of this case.
If you plan to make this argument, you should prepare to present evidence demonstrating as such. For examples, see above about the paucity of fingerprint testing on Wilson?s gun.

JCMan8 wrote:
A cop is entitled to use deadly force against a 6'4" 300 pound violent robber who attacked him and tried to grab his gun.

JCMan8 wrote:
During the initial struggle, Wilson actually had to pull the trigger three times to fire, as Brown's hand was on the gun, preventing the first two shots from going off.

JCMan8 wrote:
We also have a racist lynch mob who immediately started rioting and looting after the shooting solely because Brown was black and the cop white. In their view, there is no set of circumstances that could justify shooting him, even if he did try to attack the police.

JCMan8 wrote:
Moral of the story is black or white, don't violently rob stores, don't walk down the middle of the street as if you own it, don't attack police, and don't try to steal their gun. Then you won't get shot.

fat-ass-bike wrote:
The verdict was not based on evidence and it's all a conspiracy ... and it was the guy behind the bushy knoll.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:

I never blamed Wilson for the reports about the fractured eye, just as I don?t blame Brown for the initial reports that his hands were up or the statements saying ?don?t shoot.? From all the accounts of the grand jury, those testimonies were not used.

They were "used" and found to be not credible.

It was revealed that several witnesses testified before the grand jury that Brown put his arms up to surrender. However none of these witnesses said this to police when they were first interviewed. These witnesses then admitted to the grand jury that many of them were actually not present for the shooting and simply repeated what others heard or what they assumed happened.

In other words, they admitted lying. Other witnesses lied by saying Brown was shot in the back. This is why, objectively, these witnesses were not credible. Meanwhile, seven independent credible black witnesses gave testimony supporting Officer Wilson.

The fact is that Brown was a violent criminal. The fact is that all agreed he fought with the police. The autopsy proved that Brown's initial gunshot wound was at close range, which combined with the testimony from several witnesses, was enough to establish that Brown tried grabbing Officer Wilson's gun.

This violent scumbag is the very last person who should be considered a martyr. Racism, people only supporting him because of the color of his skin, is the only reason he has any support.

He fought with the officer, but to what degree? You don't know. What we do know is that the DA sold the case and didn't perform his job. We know for a fact that Officer Wilson lied while on the stand. We know for a fact that the police made a multitude of mistakes.

Brown isn't a martyr. He's not even a good kid. However, why should the police be allowed to arbitrarily dish out justice?

I think you fail to grasp the very nature of the issue. A police officer was able to gun down a person and instead of allowing procedure to play out, police closed ranks, skirted due process, ignored protocol and had a very friendly District Attorney assist them.

JCMan8 wrote:
... people will somehow have to rebel against the race-baiting media...