VanVorster wrote:
I am not a socialist but rather believe in capitalism WITH some regulation/oversight. Not your Ayn Rand version of the market will take care of everything and we've had social engineering in this country since its inception -- albeit just for white people (affluent straight white men in particular). I don't think progressives advocate a socialist agenda but rather a limit to the yawning chasm between the haves and have nots which has been exacerbated over the last 3 decades. To illustrate, http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2 ... ty-in-america-chart-graph

And as I said earlier, this does not absolve those in the inner city who make poor choices or believe a life of crime is the answer. They will and must face repercussions. There is personal accountability but I don't think everyone who lives there should be written off as a lost cause -- I actually think Fulop's anti-recidivism program of prisoner reentry is a good idea. And it's all about resources/access. I grew up in a nice suburb because both of my parents worked and I went to very nice schools. Had my parents not moved to where I grew up, I think my life would have been totally different. We have de facto segregation, not de jure and it's based on income.

Monroe wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Government needs managers, not activists with specific agendas, right or left.

And Cuomo spanked de Blasio again today, when it's reported he'll support payments for charter school rent if Kaiser Wilhelm tries to screw them more. After all, the NY Governor, the US Secretary of Education, and President Obama all support charter schools because of their successes.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/03/cuomo-ba ... ols-evicted-by-de-blasio/

Your statement there is based on nothing more than a completely biased headline. The article doesn't support this argument.

Pebs, honey, you do know it was from the NYTimes and not Fox, or Breitbart, or Drudge?

VanVorster wrote:
And on THAT I wholeheartedly agree with you and can reach across the aisle. But other stuff, no.

CdeCoincy wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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VanVorster wrote:
I personally don't want this country to go into the trajectory of a Brazil or South Africa where it becomes a fait accompli that if you're black or brown, you're destined to be marginalized or occupy lower strata of society; and if you're white and middle class, you're basically destined to make it. It's also a tad disingenuous and a little myopic for people to lambaste DeBlasio or Pres. Obama for so-called social engineering and giving undue advantage to people of color (implicitly TAKING something from deserving whites) for proposing agendas that might ameliorate the status quo especially in inner cities - why should potential talent languish just because someone might not have the benefit of having been born into the right family or circumstances/connections. Again, I don't want to live in a gated community with a private security firm like Brazil or South Africa that perpetuates a cycle of inequity and where it's foregone conclusion that if you're poor and black, you're automatically consigned to being bad and dumb. That does not mean however, that people aren't also accountable for themselves, their behavior/choices or that they lack agency (resorting to crime especially violent ones is not a justifiable excuse).
interesting article about G&T programs. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/edu ... .html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/oeo-training/aa/beneficiaries.htm

'Might ameliorate the status quo in the inner cities'?

You are aware, of course, that the suburban taxpayers, in just the last TWO years, underwrote JC schoolkids (and JC taxpayers) to the tune of a BILLION FREAKING DOLLARS?

And you're aware that this money has been spent for the last 30 years, or well over one generation? With what results? I'd love to see how many more children were born to single mothers, with delinquent fathers, since 1985 when the Abbott districts were created.

Just how much more do you expect them to do? And we're talking just money for schools, not Section 8 Housing, food stamps, and a million other areas where money has been spent on social aide.

The issue isn't enough money being spent, it's personal responsibility causing people to be poor overwhelmingly. And you have to go back 20 years before Abbott to get to the beginnings of the 'Great Society' if you really want to measure that money spent at the problems haven't solved a thing.

I've always assumed that the suburbs cough up the money as an alternative to building low income housing that would require zoning and land usage changes as well as changing the social mix. Probably would have been cheaper and perhaps more effective to have busted up inner city neighborhoods.

Monroe wrote:
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VanVorster wrote:
I personally don't want this country to go into the trajectory of a Brazil or South Africa where it becomes a fait accompli that if you're black or brown, you're destined to be marginalized or occupy lower strata of society; and if you're white and middle class, you're basically destined to make it. It's also a tad disingenuous and a little myopic for people to lambaste DeBlasio or Pres. Obama for so-called social engineering and giving undue advantage to people of color (implicitly TAKING something from deserving whites) for proposing agendas that might ameliorate the status quo especially in inner cities - why should potential talent languish just because someone might not have the benefit of having been born into the right family or circumstances/connections. Again, I don't want to live in a gated community with a private security firm like Brazil or South Africa that perpetuates a cycle of inequity and where it's foregone conclusion that if you're poor and black, you're automatically consigned to being bad and dumb. That does not mean however, that people aren't also accountable for themselves, their behavior/choices or that they lack agency (resorting to crime especially violent ones is not a justifiable excuse).
interesting article about G&T programs. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/edu ... .html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/oeo-training/aa/beneficiaries.htm

'Might ameliorate the status quo in the inner cities'?

You are aware, of course, that the suburban taxpayers, in just the last TWO years, underwrote JC schoolkids (and JC taxpayers) to the tune of a BILLION FREAKING DOLLARS?

And you're aware that this money has been spent for the last 30 years, or well over one generation? With what results? I'd love to see how many more children were born to single mothers, with delinquent fathers, since 1985 when the Abbott districts were created.

Just how much more do you expect them to do? And we're talking just money for schools, not Section 8 Housing, food stamps, and a million other areas where money has been spent on social aide.

The issue isn't enough money being spent, it's personal responsibility causing people to be poor overwhelmingly. And you have to go back 20 years before Abbott to get to the beginnings of the 'Great Society' if you really want to measure that money spent at the problems haven't solved a thing.

VanVorster wrote:
I personally don't want this country to go into the trajectory of a Brazil or South Africa where it becomes a fait accompli that if you're black or brown, you're destined to be marginalized or occupy lower strata of society; and if you're white and middle class, you're basically destined to make it. It's also a tad disingenuous and a little myopic for people to lambaste DeBlasio or Pres. Obama for so-called social engineering and giving undue advantage to people of color (implicitly TAKING something from deserving whites) for proposing agendas that might ameliorate the status quo especially in inner cities - why should potential talent languish just because someone might not have the benefit of having been born into the right family or circumstances/connections. Again, I don't want to live in a gated community with a private security firm like Brazil or South Africa that perpetuates a cycle of inequity and where it's foregone conclusion that if you're poor and black, you're automatically consigned to being bad and dumb. That does not mean however, that people aren't also accountable for themselves, their behavior/choices or that they lack agency (resorting to crime especially violent ones is not a justifiable excuse).
interesting article about G&T programs. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/edu ... .html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm

http://www.ncsu.edu/project/oeo-training/aa/beneficiaries.htm

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Government needs managers, not activists with specific agendas, right or left.

And Cuomo spanked de Blasio again today, when it's reported he'll support payments for charter school rent if Kaiser Wilhelm tries to screw them more. After all, the NY Governor, the US Secretary of Education, and President Obama all support charter schools because of their successes.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/03/cuomo-ba ... ols-evicted-by-de-blasio/

Your statement there is based on nothing more than a completely biased headline. The article doesn't support this argument.

Monroe wrote:
Government needs managers, not activists with specific agendas, right or left.

And Cuomo spanked de Blasio again today, when it's reported he'll support payments for charter school rent if Kaiser Wilhelm tries to screw them more. After all, the NY Governor, the US Secretary of Education, and President Obama all support charter schools because of their successes.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/03/cuomo-ba ... ols-evicted-by-de-blasio/

dojan wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Government needs managers, not activists with specific agendas, right or left.

And Cuomo spanked de Blasio again today, when it's reported he'll support payments for charter school rent if Kaiser Wilhelm tries to screw them more. After all, the NY Governor, the US Secretary of Education, and President Obama all support charter schools because of their successes.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/03/cuomo-ba ... ols-evicted-by-de-blasio/

Yes, Obama supports charter schools but not vouchers.

And de Blasio cut gifted programs due to lack of "diversity".

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgre ... s-over-lack-of-diversity/

He also wanted to apply affirmative action on NY's G&T school admssion.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/b ... issions-article-1.1481345

Monroe wrote:
Government needs managers, not activists with specific agendas, right or left.

And Cuomo spanked de Blasio again today, when it's reported he'll support payments for charter school rent if Kaiser Wilhelm tries to screw them more. After all, the NY Governor, the US Secretary of Education, and President Obama all support charter schools because of their successes.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/03/cuomo-ba ... ols-evicted-by-de-blasio/

Monroe wrote:
His screwjob of charter schools shows he's more concerned about the teachers union than the minority children who thrive there.

And the WSJ had an article about all the unfilled positions in City Hall; apparently the nominees need to pass his 'progressive' litmus test in addition to having chops in expertise. Which makes me want to hurl. Why not just get the most qualified for the job?

JC_Man wrote:
Obama Redux. We can all watch NYC go down from here in JC.