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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
 
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Yvonne - your argument is flawed in so many ways, I don't know where to start except with this....
Posted on: 2015/3/26 21:45
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I have said this in the past, but it is worth repeating. Tax abatements are not ratables. They are invisible to the county when they strike the budget. Close to $6 billion is the figure the county use when it strikes the budget. Another $2.8 or $2.9 billion is taxed abated. It is not added to the ratable formula and it is the reason our taxes are high. In 1988, the ratable base change form $800 million to around $6.3 or $6.7 billion. I don't remember the exact figure, sorry for that. The tax rate in 1988 was $32.52, it is now close to $75.00. Those abatements will not lower the rate rate because they are not included in the ratio. If the reval was to happen, the city will probably be worth between $18 to $20 billion and the tax rate will probably be in the $20.00 range. Since I was around when development started, I don't buy the argument that developers needed abatements. The city approached the developers about abatements because they city made promises to some groups, at that point the developer asked for abatements.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 21:06
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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In my book, it's not a problem if the senior is sitting on windfall equity profit. And I'm not convinced that taking away abatements will reduce taxes for anyone - the economics of it are not a zero-sum game.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 20:50
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Here is the problem, we are asking seniors to use reverse mortgage to pay their taxes while the present administration is giving out 30 tax abatements to developers in prime locations. This city is playing the game of saying who have wealth and who should struggle to pay taxes.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 20:41
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Agree. Or perhaps pass legislation that allows broader eligibility on reverse mortgages to pay property taxes.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 20:21
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Fantastic idea.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 19:18
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Agreed that no one should be forced from their homes, but we're talking about people with either very high equity, or they've wrung the cash from their homes already and don't really deserve a tax break at the expense of others. Finance is not my area of expertise, but what the city should do is create a system of tax liens that basically act like a reverse mortgage. You can defer the tax increase, but you still owe it to the city, with interest, at transfer of the property. These liens could then be combined into bonds and sold, thus converting future recovery of the deferred taxes into todays cashflow. Everybody wins, right?
Posted on: 2015/3/26 19:16
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
Joined:
2004/2/6 23:13 Last Login : 2021/7/30 1:08 From Jersey City
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agree with your comment(s.)
and if Yvonne, myself and other proactive homeowners downtown had rolled the dice with the new mayor and held off selling for three more years, we could have sold our homes for 20-25% more. that is life. Quote:
Posted on: 2015/3/26 19:06
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I'm a big supporter of the reval - but I can see there's no safety net for those who can't afford a high increase in taxes. The county or state should adopt a property tax deferral program for those on low income, seniors and disabled. Forcing people to sell benefits no-one.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 19:03
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Out of curiosity, i just ran a mortgage calculator on how much more an overtaxed property might sell for if it's taxes dropped. Let's say our taxes on a $300k house paying $9k in tax (very common) dropped to $6k. Assuming the buyer has a certain fixed budget for mortgage and taxes together, that $3k saved frees an additional $250/month for mortgage. That would, with a 4% 30 year loan, create additional home value of $52,400. In other words, that unfair overtaxing is potentially robbing homeowners citywide of 1/7 the value of their properties. This calculation of course begs the question of the buyer needing a bigger down payment, but you get the idea.
The reverse of this calculation is what terrifies Downtown owners of older properties, and why Yvonne sold her Brownstone on Van Vorst Park that was taxed at 1% to walk away with as much profit as possible.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 18:29
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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There's tremendous variation, but it's not random. Many historic properties Downtown pay effective tax rates often less than 1/3 that of properties in less expensive parts of town. Downtown is often ~1% of value, other areas 3-4% is common. It's a zero sum game, if they pay less you pay more. Fulop protecting wealthy Downtowners from tax hikes meant prolonging people in other wards being ripped off, and the high tax suppresses the value of their properties.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 16:53
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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As it stands, real estate taxes might just as well be applied completely randomly. Virtually identical properties throughout the city are taxed at enormously different rates. It's not just unfair-- it also unjust and fraudulent.
From the article re: Weehawkin: "In 2013, Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop canceled a contracted citywide revaluation, citing that it would result in unaffordable tax-hikes." So Fulop's justification for not doing a reval is that the people who are unfairly paying less will be required to fairly pay more. What a joke!!!
Posted on: 2015/3/26 16:19
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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If the reval was to go through, Fulop would get backlash by protecting new construction with 30 year abatements.
Posted on: 2015/3/26 13:19
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
Joined:
2012/1/11 18:21 Last Login : 2019/12/26 15:30 From GV Bayside Park
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NOT JERSEY CITY
It's been 23 years since Weehawken assessed the value of all its properties, and some waterfront residents think it's time to change that. A group of residents from the Brownstones at Port Imperial and Henley on the Hudson are fighting to force Weehawken to conduct a revaluation, citing that some homeowners aren't paying their fair share of property taxes. The last revaluation in the township was conducted in 1991. Buildings constructed since have been assessed using different value standards, a lawsuit filed against the township claims, allowing older homes to pay taxes based on 23-year-old market values. "There is great disparity of taxes in our town," said Amit Gupta, one of the residents of the Brownstones leading the charge against the township. "Finally there's enough people who are angry about this issue that we've been able to build up enough momentum." Former Giants wide receiver Amani Toomer, who also owns a condo in the Brownstones community, is also listed as a plaintiff in the case. The township is opposing the effort. Mayor Richard Turner said in a letter to the group--collectively known as "The Concerned Citizens of Weehawken"--that it isn't the right time to do a revaluation. The township would be better off waiting until after a number of buildings along the waterfront are completed, he told NJ Advance Media on Wednesday. He said in three or four years, when the bulk of the buildings are expected to be completed, the township can revisit the idea of revaluation. STORY
Posted on: 2015/3/26 0:18
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
Joined:
2005/5/11 3:17 Last Login : 2018/4/25 16:16 From Hamilton Park
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ditto.
In all the local Ward E community meetings, I attended over the years, Councilman Fulop always told us this is a necessary thing and it would happen. Even if he, as mayor, disagreed with the company and methods in which the reval inspections were conducted, surely there is some way to allow for challenges if there were improprieties. Also, I was under the impression that the year 2009 was to be taken as the property value year, so that the recent uptick in prices would not affect it. If we have a base year ( 2009), then as properties come on line, one would think that if revals would take place more often than every 26 years, as in the past, and the newer/improved properties are put into the mix, then the tax rate would be adjusted to a fair, realistic one for all property owners. ( Is that how it works?) Are abated properties part of this? I believe not. Quote:
Posted on: 2014/1/31 15:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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What is going on with this? I was under the impression that Jersey City is obligated to the State to do a reval at some point. Seems to me we actually missed an opportunity to do the reval last year when property values were still in a bit of a slump. Since last year property values have bumped and only look to be going up.
Posted on: 2014/1/31 3:53
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Re: Tax Reval...
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Home away from home
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If what you want to know is whether your assessment is accurate, multiply the inverse of the official rate of 2.37% (42.194) by your taxes to get what they think it's worth. Their assumption for Garden is $388,185. Many of the older Downtown townhouses are paying about 1%, many people in other wards are paying well over 3%.
Posted on: 2013/11/5 1:26
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Re: Tax Reval...
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Home away from home
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I just checked the Jersey City tax website and see that I have been assesed with three added bills for the final quarter of 2013 and the first two quarters of 2014 for almost $4000. Did your place go through a condo conversion (e.g., you bought from a developer)?
Posted on: 2013/11/5 1:14
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Re: Tax Reval...
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Quite a regular
 
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I'm not in a tax abated property.
Posted on: 2013/11/5 0:43
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Re: Tax Reval...
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Home away from home
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Are those whose taxes are going up living in tax abated properties?
Posted on: 2013/11/4 22:47
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Re: Tax Reval...
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Home away from home
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I'm also curious what is going on with taxes here. I just checked the Jersey City tax website and see that I have been assesed with three added bills for the final quarter of 2013 and the first two quarters of 2014 for almost $4000. Apparently others in my condo are having the same issue for a similar amount.
Has anyone else seen these new assessments or happen to know what they are for? We've done no improvements on our property. With this assessment it would mean our annual tax burden is almost $10,000 for a small condo. This is absolutely insane.
Posted on: 2013/11/4 21:40
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Re: Tax Reval...
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Home away from home
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Really $1800? Care to name the address for verification? or do it yourself http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... &out_type=0&district=0906. I've looked at a lot of tax records but that's 1/6 of the typical very low brownstone taxes. As for status: apparently a legal tussle between Fulop and the County. He doesn't have the legal power to cancel it as he wishes. PS, why'd you post in "NOT JC"?
Posted on: 2013/11/4 21:13
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Tax Reval...
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Quite a regular
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What ever happened with this? Is it still happening? My taxes for my small brownstone condo were just raised again to $9,200 and my next door neighbor with their $1.4M row house are still paying $1,800 per year......
Posted on: 2013/11/4 21:03
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Me thinks you need to figure out what the goal is.
If you want people to pay for the services they consume, and, for example, to provide them with an incentive to make their neighborhoods better, - you need one solution. If you want to stick it up to thy neighbor Detroit-style, - well, the solution will be different.
Posted on: 2013/9/18 2:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Just can't stay away
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Do the property reval now!
I received this response from the RRC a week and a half after asking - "Currently the city has suspended the tax reval until further notice it is the County figuring out how to proceed." Most people I know need certainty. Isn't that the reason for tax abatements. It gives developes certainty.
Posted on: 2013/9/18 2:23
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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From Wiki "Pittsburgh used the two-rate system from 1913 to 2001[17] when a countywide property reassessment led to a drastic increase in assessed land values during 2001 after years of underassessment, and the system was abandoned in favor of the traditional single-rate property tax. The tax on land in Pittsburgh was about 5.77 times the tax on improvements." It sounds like it's as fraught to administer fairly as our system, and leads to at least as many undesirable "tax artifacts". Some people might feel encouraging maximum development possible on any given lot not to be in the best interest of the community. I assume it would mean epidemic of teardowns of historic but underdeveloped properties. Much as it's entertaining to discuss outside the box alternatives, its not going to happen in the short term. The main cause of the current problem isn't the current tax system itself but the criminal delaying of the reval that led to assessments so far off that the correction will be dramatic and painful. This topic like having the boiler break because you never maintained it for 25 years, and then sitting around in the cold discussing the shortcomings of steam heat. The best long term solution is the reval scheduling needs to be regular like the census, not subject to the whims of politicians.
Posted on: 2013/9/17 23:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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If the land tax is $12,000 for the land, that tax would be split between each condo unit.
Posted on: 2013/9/17 21:16
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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MDM - How would that work with condos vs. brownstones? FOr instance, I don't think it would be fair to have condo owners who each own a floor of a brownstone to pay $12,000 each for their 1000 sq. ft unit, but the owner of a million dollar plus brownstone with 3 floors and 3000 square ft. pays only $12000 for the entire brownstone, simply because the plot of "land" is worth about the same. This does not make sense in a city environment.
Posted on: 2013/9/17 21:06
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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This thread is illustrating a real flaw in our property tax system: The tax emphases is on the improvements and not the land.
This provides a major dis-insensitive in investing in an urban area. It can be more profitable for you to manage a slum property than to renovate it into something nice. Perhaps it might behoove the leadership of Jersey City and the State of NJ to look at what cities like Pittsburgh in the past have done? Pittsburgh put the tax emphasis on the land, not the improvements. A little more on the above here: http://www.streets.mn/2012/12/10/tax-land-not-buildings/
Posted on: 2013/9/17 20:40
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I echo this. I am in a PILOT and my taxes are ridiculous. What I pay in taxes would get me a place on 1/3 of an acre and a school district I wouldn't be afraid to send kids to elsewhere in NJ. The PILOT people are paying taxes on 2004-7 prices, which newsflash, are not 2013 flashes despite somewhat of a comeback. Yet somehow the narrative is that we are leaches, but people paying taxes from a time when Hamilton Park was a crack den are the victims. We are being ripped off, except we weren't the ones here electing corrupt adminstrations and getting no-show high pay city jobs. Those are the next to go after the city gets it dose of reality. People against the 30 year abatement in JSQ are against it not because of some "fairness" idea, but rather because it will bring in more "interlopers" who won't stand for what pre-Fulop JC had to deal with. It will be another ward of young people and suburban expats with real demands and expectations than can't be met by the political machine.
Posted on: 2013/9/17 20:08
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