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Re: 3 shot at Newport - Pavonia PATH station
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Home away from home
 
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2006/11/13 18:42 Last Login : 2022/2/28 7:31 From 280 Grove Street
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I didn't know you had the general consensus of the populace. Many people I know would disagree with you, but I would never make the assumption of MOST, as you have! I accept that SOME people would disagree with my opinion as I also accept that SOME people would agree. That's why we debate opinions, solutions and ideas on JClist. PS - When I fart it does smell!
Posted on: 2013/8/27 0:06
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: 3 shot at Newport - Pavonia PATH station
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Home away from home
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I stopped reading after your third paragraph. If you don't like our constitutional rights in this country because they don't fit into your dream of a police-state utopia, then that's really YOUR inconvenience. Most people don't want what you want.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 23:54
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Re: 3 shot at Newport - Pavonia PATH station
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Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/13 18:42 Last Login : 2022/2/28 7:31 From 280 Grove Street
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It would seem that whatever police or law enforcement bodies try to do to mitigate crime, civil libertarians and criminals want to use the constitution or civil rights ?card? to stop that solution or process.
I often believe that the most vocal opponents to law and order solutions (CCTV, Alcohol and Drug detection devices, Speed and traffic devices, stop and frisk (with conditions) etc.) is the legal fraternity. Lawyers and Attorneys can?t argue and generate huge fees when you?re caught ?red handed? in open Court. Even some JClisters would rather see anarchy before any inconvenience to their civil rights or constitution, yet will complain immediately when a crime is committed that affects them or the community. Unfortunately you can?t have it both ways and criminals or acts of criminality don?t play by the same rules as the rest of society. Now imagine a portable hand-held lie detector device that had a proven success of 99% for things to be taken further! Now imagine you were required to answer a few questions on a crime or breaches of ordinance ? say you fail to clean after your dog? You say ?no?, but a witness says ?yes? and the witness is also subject to the device and returns a positive response to their answer. Imagine how quickly things could be resolved, yet people will still refuse to be subject to the device to avoid accountability. This said I also believe it should be mandatory that all and every law enforcement personnel be required to take their annual leave allotments EVERY year to help them cope with stress and reduce any negativity that is associated with the daily grind of dealing with the public. Law enforcement personnel are given MORE leave entitlements then the norm and must be forced to use them annually or they should be forfeited if they don?t ? It?s in the best interest of mental health for the officers and society gets a better well ? balanced officer providing the service.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 23:07
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Indeed!
Posted on: 2013/8/26 22:28
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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We fight what's relevant to our surroundings. Luckily, DTJC rarely has to deal with this kind of nonsense. But, the big secret is that we can...wait for it...multitask!
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Posted on: 2013/8/26 20:34
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Just can't stay away
 
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A+ Response!
Posted on: 2013/8/26 20:31
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Re: 3 shot at Newport - Pavonia PATH station
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Home away from home
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From the article:
"the gunman, who was accompanied by a woman and two small kids, accidentally shot himself in the leg" I'm guessing the dude was drunk/high/both, given that he was initially leaning on another passenger while sleeping and managed to shoot himself in the leg. Very sad that there were kids possibly in his care at the time. 5:10 AM means they were probably out in the city till bars/clubs closed at 4 AM. I take the PATH to Newark every day. There are lots of "interesting" characters. The #1 rule I have is Do Not Engage the Crazy. Anyone acting erratic or even just slightly off - do not make eye contact, do not talk to them. "Off" is anything from passed out to walking around acting jittery/cagey, to talking to themselves or punching the walls of the train. If they are really concerning, at the next stop get off and change cars. When you get to your stop, use the passenger assistance phone to call and report the person's behavior. Taking these precautions has meant that my daily commute is nearly always hassle free.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 20:29
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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That's typical of most police to use loop holes and intimidation tactics to arrest citizens. The industrial prison complex is huge business, and it doesn't matter whether you're black, white, Hispanic, Asian, or any other ethnicity. Everyone is game. The sooner people figure that out the better. Know your rights! Police don't like lawsuits, and I hope everyone who was unjustly arrested files a massive class action lawsuit for the trampling of their 4th amendment rights, including the expungement of their arrest.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 19:41
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Which is why I called them ILLEGAL weed arrests. Here's Ed Koch on it http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ed-koch ... d-the-mari_b_1626941.html
Posted on: 2013/8/26 19:13
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Re: 3 shot at Newport - Pavonia PATH station
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Home away from home
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Actually this precisely the situation when stop & frisk would work. If this guy was stopped and frisked wherever he boarded we wouldn't be talking about this.
In what world is it remotely acceptable for someone to be packing heat on a train? At that time how many people were inebriated? And this isn't the first time that people from outside JC altogether are bringing their thuggery in. How about the robbery outside Avalon last year by kids from the Bronx? Where is the PA? At home cashing their fat pensions? For all they are paid and the easy target that is the PATH, why not have real security? It's not metal detectors...it's looking for people that are up to no good...
Posted on: 2013/8/26 18:17
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Marijuana possession was decriminalized in NY over a decade ago. You can possess up to an ounce of weed on your person and it isn't even a misdemeanor. It's a civil citation with a maximum fine of $100 for a first time offense, and the fine increases with subsequent citations. That is, unless you have an ounce on your person with multiple bags, bagged up with the intent to distribute. Also, it should be noted that although possession is a civil citation, burning in public is an arrestible offense in NY. NJ on the other hand will book you for possession of even paraphernalia with resin in a pipe.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 17:32
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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This is the central horror of this story that people are ignoring as they get on their high horses about S&F etc. We mostly view ourselves as empathetic modern educated people, and can't even begin to get around the mindset of someone who will pull a gun on a train and shoot a person over an accidental physical slight. That our society produces people like this is the story. We can tell ourselves that the only thing unusual about this shooting is that it took place on "our turf", instead of some inner city street where it would be just business as usual. That is a little comforting, but the next time I accidentally scuff the brilliant white sneaker of some kid on a crowded train, I'll be thinking about this story. As for S&F being a failure because it nabs so few guns, I recall stories at the time of it's implementation (along with aggressive pursuit of turnstile jumpers) that the usual suspects became far less likely to be carrying in public than they were beforehand. It's too bad the program overreached into abuse, particularly the illegal weed arrests for complying with "empty your pockets" requests.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 16:40
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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 Tari Turpin, 34, of East Orange Heading back to Newark -- late on Saturday night (Sunday Morning) he was passed out on train. I know I would have avoided this loser and his girlfriend from the word go -- and once he flashed a gun and luckily "calmed down" and "put it away" -- who would be dumb enough to ask this loser: ?Who pulls out a gun for something like this?? Quote: The man drew a gun, and then briefly calmed down when Drummer?s brother intervened, according to the interview Drummer gave the news station.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 16:18
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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But this all depends on what success criteria you assign. You keep pointing to the 0.2% number, but that's about 180 guns that were taken. 180 guns that would otherwise be in circulation, no?
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Posted on: 2013/8/26 16:11
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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An update on the original story.
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... .html#incart_river_hudson
Posted on: 2013/8/26 16:02
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Leaving aside all racial issues: ? It doesn't work. On that basis alone, it should be stopped. ? 85% or more of those frisked were completely innocent. ? The S&F program finds almost no weapons (0.2%). And that's in high crime areas. ? Most of the arrests were misdemeanor pot arrests, which technically shouldn't have happened (long story). ? It alienates the police from the residents. ? It is a poor use of those officers, who could be doing something more beneficial. ? I for one have no interest in living in a police state. I don't want to be felt up by a PATH police officer who thinks that my putting away my cell phone qualifies as a "furtive movement."
Posted on: 2013/8/26 16:01
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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I checked this thread figuring it would have devolved into an argument about something else by now. I see we've moved on from gun control to stop and frisk. Not too long before we hit on off leash dogs and what supermarkets we'd like to see in JC.
Regardless, for those claiming S&F is not race based, I recommend reading this article. Even if you don't believe the guy it puts the implementation of S&F in a little more context. http://nymag.com/news/features/pedro-serrano-2013-5/
Posted on: 2013/8/26 15:46
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Stop and frisk is race based only in the manner that when a crime is committed with a description of the perp, police look for someone fitting that description. The police aren't creating the descriptions, the crime victim/bystander is reporting the race of the perp. The end of stop and frisk means the increase of violence to minorities will begin. It won't be an issue in Scarsdale and Old Brookville, but it will in Bushwick and Harlem. What a legacy for those who oppose it-you own it now.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 15:43
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Race and persistent poverty which spans generations can't be separated in this country due to our country's history. But let's pretend that we could remove race. In this case I dont think stop and frisk would survive because the first time the policy was implemented on a race-blind basis there would be a nationwide outcry. Imagine that someone gets shot in a wealthy suburb. The police decides to randomly stop, question and frisk people in that wealthy suburb without using race to determine who to stop. Imagine the reaction. Result: Stop, question and frisk is history.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 15:26
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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5:30 AM ???? Like my great great great grandfather used to tell me, nothing good happens after 5:20 AM !
Posted on: 2013/8/26 14:57
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Just can't stay away
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When all this new development gets built in DTJC and Newark I kind of expect to see something like this happen every week.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 14:20
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Monroe makes a good point RE: Obama. But still, I haven't seen anything substantial in response to my question, taking race out of the equation.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 13:42
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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We already have that, Obama is reading your emails and texts and listening to your phone calls, no?
Posted on: 2013/8/26 13:41
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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What is the problem with just entering someone's home? I mean, maybe we should just have a cop randomly show up at people's houses at all times to make sure people aren't committing crimes.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 13:33
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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If a crime is committed, and the perp is identified as any certain race, it's not racial profiling to stop someone fitting the description within reason. It's only 'targeting' people that match the description provided by victims and/or bystanders. But again, the people who will suffer from any sizeable reduction of stop and frisk will be law abiding minorities in their own neighborhoods.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 13:24
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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If you could take race out of it, perhaps you could claim it was reasonable. But since it seems to target people of specific colors, there's already a problem unless you aren't of those colors. Then there's the potential violations of the Bill of Rights. And BTW, I'm not one who is likely to be stopped and frisked, but I still think it's just plain wrong.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 13:18
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Playing Devil's advocate here. What harm does Stop and Frisk cause?
Take race out of it for one second, if that's even possible for you guys. More specifically, in an area that is rife with gun crimes (not just violent crimes, gun crimes), what are the palpable negative consequences of stop and frisk?
Posted on: 2013/8/26 13:11
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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Crime was falling steadily for 12 years before S&F started. Crime rates are also falling in many other cities, which don't have a S&F policy. Quote: Mandatory sentences for, say, illegal gun possession is a great tool-it puts the criminals behind bars, unable to shoot innocent victims. New York State has a mandatory minimum of 3.5 years for illegal possession of a firearm; NJ is 3-5 years. For aggravated assault, it's probably another 5 years. The man who has been charged (Turpin) is almost certainly looking at jail time, and it didn't deter him from opening fire on a train. And again, crime is already very low on the various commuter trains in the area. We don't need to turn the trains into miniature police states because of one unfortunate shooting.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 12:58
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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It lets them see whether the doors are clear. Because, y'know, that's their job. Conductors are not police officers. How is an unarmed and untrained train conductor supposed to stop a gunfight? It's also quite clear that these types of incidents are thankfully rare. We don't need to put metal detectors at PATH train entrances because of one unfortunate and violent incident.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 12:36
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Re: 3 shot at Pavonia PATH station: report By Margaret Schmidt/The Jersey Journal
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Home away from home
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We don't know whether this person had a permit, but it's highly unlikely. NJ doesn't just issue ID cards. It's a long process that includes FBI background checks, mandatory fingerprinting, and submitting at least three non-family references who will vouch for you. If any of your references have been arrested before, your chances of getting your federal ID card is slim to none. Considering this guy thinks he can carry in a non-carry state proves to me that he never had a permit. Why register a gun that you're going to illegally carry? He would never have gone through the proper channels. You can say I'm assuming, but I would say I'm deducing the facts. I also think the War on Drugs is a lost cause, and I agree that mandatory minimum sentencing for drug users won't deter drug use. However, this isn't the War on Drugs, this is the war on illegal guns and their owners. What realistic suggestions do you have to end gun violence? I think closing the gun show loop holes would be a great start.
Posted on: 2013/8/26 2:07
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