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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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"The popularity of water fluoridation continues to plummet, with an entire country pulling the plug on the practice in one fell swoop in recent weeks.

On July 29, 2013, the Supreme Court of Israel noted in its ruling on a 2012 petition the State?s intention to cease compulsory fluoridation of public water supplies in 2014.

The November 12, 2012 petition from Yaacov Gurman and the Izun Hozer Association for Dissemination of Health Education demanded that the Ministry of Health order the cessation of fluoridation due to health dangers and the fact that its benefits are no longer widely accepted..."

Israel Suspends Water Fluoridation

Posted on: 2013/8/26 20:18
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
I've done the homework I need to do to form my view - do your own and argue with the experts - I don't have the time to argue with you for the sake of an argument.

Some JClisters must be a pleasure to deal with by their partners, family and work colleagues.... I am so envious not having individuals like those on JClist in my daily physical world!



no one's done the homework yet, that's the point. there's no scientific evidence that drinking more bottled water increases tooth delay.

you're free to believe in something, but it doesn't mean much until there's scientific evidence that supports it.

Posted on: 2013/7/20 2:35
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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I've done the homework I need to do to form my view - do your own and argue with the experts - I don't have the time to argue with you for the sake of an argument.

There is evidence to suggest that by not drinking fluorinated TAP water and using bottled NON flourinated water solely, contributes to tooth decay ... In laymans terms - TAP water with flouride helps fight tooth decay and BOTTLED water without flouride (as most are) does not.
Its a simple concept to understand or ignore.

Some JClisters must be a pleasure to deal with by their partners, family and work colleagues.... I am so envious not having individuals like those on JClist in my daily physical world!


Posted on: 2013/7/20 2:29

Edited by fat-ass-bike on 2013/7/20 2:44:48
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/bottled ... decay-dentists-say-506428

Empower yourself and do some research and then make up your own mind


and what research have you done?

Quote:
...To be clear, there are no studies to date that document a clear tie between bottled water and tooth decay.


show me some scientific evidence, and then let's talk.

Posted on: 2013/7/20 2:02
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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http://www.nbcnews.com/health/bottled ... decay-dentists-say-506428

Empower yourself and do some research and then make up your own mind

Posted on: 2013/7/20 1:40
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
There was a myth that the Third Reich / Hitler used flouridation in the water as a form of mind control - Could it be that this fear continues today?

Ever since that introduction of bottled water in the community, dental needs have exploded - I believe flouride is a good thing for the oral hygiene of this nation as it is for many other countries that have and continue to use it.

Most of Europe, the UK, Canada, Australia have fluoridation and they don't appear to look or act like zombies!

If there is one thing we do well in the US is to create fear, anxiety and never ending discourse to cease or suspend progress.


man, you really think you've proved correlation there? you realize americans eat a lot more sugar than in the past, right?

Posted on: 2013/7/20 1:31
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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There was a myth that the Third Reich / Hitler used flouridation in the water as a form of mind control - Could it be that this fear continues today?

Ever since that introduction of bottled water in the community, dental needs have exploded - I believe flouride is a good thing for the oral hygiene of this nation as it is for many other countries that have and continue to use it.

Most of Europe, the UK, Canada, Australia have fluoridation and they don't appear to look or act like zombies!

If there is one thing we do well in the US is to create fear, anxiety and never ending discourse to cease or suspend progress.

Posted on: 2013/7/20 0:42
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
Compulsory mass medication is medically wrong

It's not aspirin. It's almost entirely harmless. You need to ingest ridiculous amounts of fluoridated water (or, tea with a high fluorine content) for years on end to have any serious health issues from it.

And we're in New Jersey, no one here is terrified of "socialism."



Posted on: 2013/7/19 22:35
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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As of 2012, not added http://www.unitedwater.com/uploadedfi ... mer_confidence_report.pdf
I think the link GrovePath put, just lists all the water systems in Hudosn county.
Tried to track the NJ legislation online, looks like there has been no action on it since early 2012, so hopefully never got passed.
Have emailed United Water to get current status on fluoridation, will post if/when they get back

Posted on: 2013/7/19 15:03
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Compulsory mass medication is medically wrong, as well as socialistic. It is starkly clear that one key to any medication is control of the dose; different people, at different stages of risk, need individual dosages tailored to their needs. And yet with water compulsorily fluoridated, the dose applies to everyone, and is necessarily proportionate to the amount of water one drinks.

What is the medical justification for a guy who drinks ten glasses of water a day receiving ten times the fluorine dose of a guy who drinks only one glass? The whole process is monstrous as well as idiotic.

More on this: http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard85.html

Posted on: 2013/7/16 15:07
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Quote:

Seagull wrote:
My tap water smells like pool water. There must be a ton of chlorine being used in the treatment, and this fact alone makes me not drink JC water if I can help it.
Jersey City has an unfortunately high level of chlorine in its water.

Chlorides (mg / L)
Jersey City: 70
NYC: 12
San Francisco: 12.3
Fiji: 9.9
Perrier: 23
San Pellegrino: 52

It's perfectly safe of course, and this number is from a test that a friend of mine did some years ago, so it may have just been a bad day. I plan to do another few water tests at a few different locations to get a better result.

You can get the chlorine out a number of ways:
Carbon Filter
Boil the water
Add vitamin C. 7 grams of ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate will neutralize all chlorine in one liter of JC tap water, assuming that 70 mg/L number is accurate.

I've only rarely noticed any chlorine smell to the water and it usually goes away in a few minutes, and I drink it on a daily basis, but that might just be me.

Posted on: 2013/7/15 18:03
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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I grew up in a town that included fluoride in the water and have obvious fluorosis stains. My teeth are in good shape outside the stains, but at this point I have so much fluoride in my teeth my dentist recommended that I avoid mouthwash that delivers extra fluoride.

I'd be curious to hear what some of the other local dentists in our area have have to say about this. Does anyone have an appointment coming up or recently talked to their dentist about this?


Posted on: 2013/7/15 16:23
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Thanks Mom -- you always know best!

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
I think it now is... sadly!

I'm not sad. It's not only safe, it's beneficial.

Posted on: 2013/7/15 14:15
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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GrovePath wrote:
I think it now is... sadly!

I'm not sad. It's not only safe, it's beneficial.

Posted on: 2013/7/15 10:18
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Seagull wrote:
My tap water smells like pool water.

You can't smell the fluoride in tap water.

Any funky smells in your tap water may be related to the water main break. (http://www.unitedwater.com/jerseycity/Newscenter.aspx?id=8837)

Posted on: 2013/7/15 10:16
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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jcguy05 wrote:
can someone please just provide some facts instead of this back and forth.

1) Is flouride in jersey city right now operated by united water?

2) If no, when will they be introduced to the JC water?


I think it now is... sadly!

http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/MWF/SearchRe ... Hudson&StartPG=1&EndPG=20

Posted on: 2013/7/14 22:10
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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My tap water smells like pool water. There must be a ton of chlorine being used in the treatment, and this fact alone makes me not drink JC water if I can help it.

Posted on: 2013/7/14 19:12
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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can someone please just provide some facts instead of this back and forth.

1) Is flouride in jersey city right now operated by united water?

2) If no, when will they be introduced to the JC water?

Posted on: 2013/7/14 17:43
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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With all due respect, inaccurate, misleading reports such as that one from ?The Health Ranger? only helps rationally-minded people dismiss the issue?s real concerns. It does almost nothing to genuinely educate the reader.

?What did he say about fluoride??
?Who cares, he?s a woo woo.?


Posted on: 2013/4/4 13:49
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Posted on: 2013/4/4 12:32
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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borisp wrote:
I was responding to someone who claimed that "flouride in the vitamin is chemically different than the industrial waste they want to put in the water supply".



I know, and the fact is that the manufacture and chemical composition of fluoride supplements can indeed differ. It also appears that fluoride supplements used in water supplies, unlike those found in pills, are not subject to FDA regulation or oversight.

It shouldn?t necessarily cause alarm that sodium fluorosilicate is typically derived from byproducts of the fertilizer industry, but it?s enough to raise questions worthy of consideration. For example, how problematic would those chemicals be to dispose of otherwise and how much is it worth to companies like Monsanto to unload the stuff on us? I suspect those answers alone would lead to more questions.

Ultimately, the most relevant point is that using the water supply is just too sloppy and irresponsible a method to administer any drug, regardless of how it's manufactured.

Posted on: 2013/3/26 13:53
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Frank_M wrote:

Quote:

jcdd wrote:
My daughter's pediatrician (located in jersey city), confirmed that the flouride they want to put in the water system is essentially industrial waste.

I spoke with him about it when he gave me a prescription for a vitamin supplement with flouride for my 9 month old baby. He explained that the flouride in the vitamin is chemically different than the industrial waste they want to put in the water supply.


Again, I?m not suggesting you be scared, just that you can?t dismiss the potential quality of of water fluoridation compounds by saying that fluoride is ion.


I was responding to someone who claimed that "flouride in the vitamin is chemically different than the industrial waste they want to put in the water supply".

As for contaminants, - than yes, sure, if we have some data on that, let's see it.

Everything else doesn't mean much. When you describe things like "used as a precursor", "chemical waste", - it creates an impression that someone just dumps something totally horrible in the water supply. This kind of description doesn't give us any real information, but creates a certain scary mood. And it is just wrong.

Have you heard about the DHMO ?



Posted on: 2013/3/26 2:49
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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borisp wrote: Quote:
Frank_M wrote: Quote:
borisp wrote: Quote:
jcdd wrote: My daughter's pediatrician (located in jersey city), confirmed that the flouride they want to put in the water system is essentially industrial waste. I spoke with him about it when he gave me a prescription for a vitamin supplement with flouride for my 9 month old baby. He explained that the flouride in the vitamin is chemically different than the industrial waste they want to put in the water supply.
I was taught in high-school "fluoride" is just an ion F-. What did your doctor mean by "chemically different"?
Fluoride is an ion yes, but it is made available in water supplies through hydrolysis of fluorinated compounds that in some cases were originally the waste byproducts of other chemical processes. Whether that represents a genuine health risk I don?t know, but it is a potential source and route of unwanted contamination.
Any fluoridation by definition would be a result of "chemical processes". Everything is. Putting cooking salt in food is a chemical process. If there is any information about specific contamination, - let's hear it. Otherwise, I am not going to be scared simply by mention that something is a result of a chemical process.
I didn?t suggest that you should be frightened, I?m simply being objective. You said that fluoride is an ion that can?t be ?chemically different,? which is correct, but they can?t just dump a barrel of fluoride ions into the water. Commonly, fluoride is liberated into drinking water by introducing sodium fluorosilicate, a chemical whose precursors are byproducts from the industrial manufacture of fertilizer. The smorgasbord of compounds used in those earlier reactions are all potential contaminants that can make their way into the fluoridation products sold to water treatment plants. There are federally mandated standards that place limits on those impurities, specifically because the risks and routes of contamination are genuine. Again, I?m not suggesting you be scared, just that you can?t dismiss the potential quality of of water fluoridation compounds by saying that fluoride is ion.

Posted on: 2013/3/25 13:51
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Frank_M wrote: Quote:
borisp wrote: Quote:
jcdd wrote: My daughter's pediatrician (located in jersey city), confirmed that the flouride they want to put in the water system is essentially industrial waste. I spoke with him about it when he gave me a prescription for a vitamin supplement with flouride for my 9 month old baby. He explained that the flouride in the vitamin is chemically different than the industrial waste they want to put in the water supply.
I was taught in high-school "fluoride" is just an ion F-. What did your doctor mean by "chemically different"?
Fluoride is an ion yes, but it is made available in water supplies through hydrolysis of fluorinated compounds that in some cases were originally the waste byproducts of other chemical processes. Whether that represents a genuine health risk I don?t know, but it is a potential source and route of unwanted contamination.
Any fluoridation by definition would be a result of "chemical processes". Everything is. Putting cooking salt in food is a chemical process. If there is any information about specific contamination, - let's hear it. Otherwise, I am not going to be scared simply by mention that something is a result of a chemical process.

Posted on: 2013/3/25 1:50
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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12345 wrote:
ADA study confirms dangers of fluoridated water, especially for babies

Yeah, too bad that's not what the study actually says.

Basically, it just says that an infant who consumes water-based reconstituted formula, and use products like dentifrice, have a slightly elevated risk of mild fluorosis. (As in, very slight tooth discoloration.)

The ADA has put out that paper to help dentists make recommendations to parents. It isn't significant enough for the ADA to change their recommendation that fluoridation is safe. Nor have the CDC or FDA spoken out against fluoridation.

It's a good thing for new parents to know. It's not a cause for panic, or to stop fluoridation.

Thanks for the hysteria.

Posted on: 2013/3/24 13:01
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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ADA study confirms dangers of fluoridated water, especially for babies

... a new study published in the Journal of the American Dental Association confirming fluoride as a toxic substance that actually destroys teeth, particularly those of developing young children and babies.

http://www.naturalnews.com/030123_flu ... babies.html#ixzz2OQoy5pvd

http://www.fluoridealert.org

Posted on: 2013/3/24 5:22
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Fluoridation is fine.

As the American Dental Association says:

"On January 25,1945 Grand Rapids, Michigan became the world's first city to adjust the level of fluoride in its water supply. Since that time, fluoridation has dramatically improved the oral health of tens of millions of Americans. Community water fluoridation is the single most effective public health measure to prevent tooth decay. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has proclaimed community water fluoridation as one of 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century. Approximately 72.4% of the U.S. population served by public water systems receive the benefit of optimally fluoridated water....

"Studies conducted throughout the past 65 years have consistently shown that fluoridation of community water supplies is safe and effective in preventing dental decay in both children and adults."

ADA > crank with website

It's not a toxin, it's not a poison. It's safe, and millions of people have consumed drinking water with a small amount of additional fluoride without keeling over.

Posted on: 2013/3/23 23:33
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Since fluoride is in most toothpastes these days and dentists provide fluoride treatments, one wonders what is the money to made off of adding fluoride to the water and by what companies. I wonder if our water bills will increase even more in the name of health.

Sorry to be so cynical, but look at who exactly is pushing this bill and who donates to the campaigns of the elected officials pushing this.

We have plenty of fluoride in our lives, we don't really need more and to those who have compromised immune systems or are elderly, this is a concern.

Posted on: 2013/3/23 16:51
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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Too Much Tea Causes skeletal fluorosis

By Rachael Rettner
LiveScience.com
Thu, Mar 21, 2013
New England Journal of Medicine ?2013.

A 47-year-old U.S. woman developed a bone disease rarely seen in the U.S. after consuming an excessive amount of tea. An x-ray showed calcifications

Woman developed a bone disease rarely seen in the U.S. after she drank a pitcher of tea made from at least 100 tea bags daily, for 17 years, researchers report.

The Detroit woman visited the doctor after experiencing pain in her lower back, arms, legs and hips for five years.
X-rays revealed areas of very dense bone on the spinal vertebrae and calcifications of ligaments in her arm, said study researcher Dr. Sudhaker D. Rao, a physician at Henry Ford Hospital who specializes in endocrinology and bone and mineral metabolism.

The researchers suspected the woman had skeletal fluorosis, a bone disease caused by consuming too much fluoride (a mineral found in tea as well as drinking water).

The patient's blood levels of fluoride were four times higher than what would be considered normal, the researchers said.
Skeletal fluorosis is endemic in regions of the world with naturally high levels of fluoride in drinking water, including some parts of India and China, but is rare in Europe and North America. (Low levels of fluoride are added to drinking water in the United States to prevent cavities, but aren't high enough to cause fluorosis.)

Rao said the patient was originally referred to him because her doctors suspected she had cancer, which can also show up on an X-ray as areas of dense bone. But because Rao had seen cases of skeletal fluorosis in his native India, "I was able to recognize it immediately," he said.

Excess fluoride is typically eliminated from the body by the kidneys, Rao said. But if one consumes a lot of it, as this patient did through tea drinking, over time, the fluoride forms crystal deposits on bone, Rao said.

A few other cases of skeletal fluorosis caused by tea drinking have been reported in the United States. In these cases, patients typically drank a gallon of tea a day, Rao said. Rao and colleagues instructed their patient to stop drinking tea, after which she experienced an improvement in symptoms. The fluoride deposits will gradually go away as the bone remodels (or repairs) itself, a process that occurs frequently in the body, Rao said.

Posted on: 2013/3/23 16:17
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Re: In New Jersey, a Battle Over a Fluoridation Bill - fluoride will be added to Jersey City water
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jcdd wrote: My daughter's pediatrician (located in jersey city), confirmed that the flouride they want to put in the water system is essentially industrial waste. I spoke with him about it when he gave me a prescription for a vitamin supplement with flouride for my 9 month old baby. He explained that the flouride in the vitamin is chemically different than the industrial waste they want to put in the water supply.
I was taught in high-school "fluoride" is just an ion F-. What did your doctor mean by "chemically different"?
Fluoride is an ion yes, but it is made available in water supplies through hydrolysis of fluorinated compounds that in some cases were originally the waste byproducts of other chemical processes. Whether that represents a genuine health risk I don?t know, but it is a potential source and route of unwanted contamination.

Posted on: 2013/3/13 13:03
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