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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Home away from home
 
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Hopefully they'll remain exactly as they are. A symbol of our past, of when things were built to last, a home for wild animals and birds. F the developers and those who would prefer to knock them down. You wanna live there? Grab a tent, scale the walls and enjoy a night under the stars amongst the last wilds of Jersey City. The embankments are beautiful exactly as they are today.
Posted on: 2012/6/21 13:26
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Home away from home
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Also, the High Line was developed completely by private funds
Posted on: 2012/6/21 12:46
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Home away from home
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I believe it is across the street from the little league field.
Posted on: 2012/6/21 12:32
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Newbie
 
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Does anyone know where Hyman is most likely going to develop his two towers on 6th Street? Looks like it's proposed for 6th between Marin and Manilla?
"...a settlement authorized by the City Council in February may finally move the process forward ? if Conrail and Hyman sign on. Under the terms of the settlement, Hyman would get $20 million, Conrail would get development rights on one block of the Embankment, and the city would pay $7 million for the remaining five blocks to build a park and mass transit corridor. The Council voted unanimously to authorize the settlement in February.?
Posted on: 2012/6/21 3:39
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Home away from home
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2011/11/28 22:22 Last Login : 9/8 19:51 From Jersey City yo!
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For $27 mil it better be tasty. This has to be one of the biggest scams in JC history. Perpetrated on JC taxpayers by the the Embankment Coalition and Healy.
Posted on: 2012/6/11 10:59
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Who is going to pay Hyman the $20mm?
By what measures is the High Line in NYC a success? It should not be ignored that the High Line is surrounded by many brand new high rises. A few of which remain substantially vacant.
Posted on: 2012/6/10 23:02
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Home away from home
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Best quote ever from that article that was just posted.
?You know, we?re always concerned about the bottom line here in Jersey City and you can?t hit the tax payers over the head all the time, so that was a concern,? Healy stressed. Oh really? Bought my place in 2007 and got the double whammy.... real estate market collapsed, leaving me underwater, and Jersey City Real Estate Property Taxes going up dramatically just about every year, further depressing values. Ughhh. Major FAIL. Concerned my ass. FG
Posted on: 2012/6/10 18:11
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Home away from home
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I would only support this if its done the same way it was done in NYC with private investors. Not a dime of tax payers money should be used for this. If we going to spend any money on JC it should be done in areas that really need it. If the residents of downtown want this so bad, they all should chip in and make it happen.
Posted on: 2012/6/10 15:13
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Home away from home
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Using the High Line as a Model, Jersey City Bets on the Embankment
Friday, June 08, 2012
By Sharyn Jackson - New Jersey Public Radio
At the intersection of Jersey Avenue and 6th Street, in downtown Jersey City, stands an imposing structure of stone and granite that towers over a Brownstone-lined street. Ivy cascades down the sides, while 20- and 30-foot-tall trees grow on top. Huge reddish brown boulders pile up for two stories, with tiny fern-like plants breaking out of the crevices. It?s Stephen Gucciardo?s favorite section of the Embankment, a six-block, half mile-long spur of the Pennsylvania Railroad.
?Without any of us having touched the Embankment, it?s already a park,? Gucciardo said.
He is the president of the Embankment Preservation Coalition, a group that has fought to preserve the rail spur that slices through the historic Harsimus Cove neighborhood. The tracks haven?t been used since the early 1990s.
?The stones are beautiful, the color is delicious. They beautifully fit together, and the top is perfectly level,? Gucciardo said. ?You?re looking at master craftsmanship here that was hard to come by and expensive at the turn of the century when this was built.?
Jersey City residents and government officials are closer than ever to concluding a 13-year battle to acquire the Embankment and turn it into an open space at the center of this urban neighborhood. The process has been saddled by a series of lawsuits involving the city, private developer Steve Hyman and railroad company Conrail, over who has the right to own the property. The issue hinges on arcane federal railroad law over whether Conrail?s sale of the property to Hyman in 2003 for $3 million was legal. So far, the city has spent $500,000 in legal fees, according to corporation counsel Bill Matsikoudis.
But a settlement authorized by the City Council in February may finally move the process forward ? if Conrail and Hyman sign on. Under the terms of the settlement, Hyman would get $20 million, Conrail would get development rights on one block of the Embankment, and the city would pay $7 million for the remaining five blocks to build a park and mass transit corridor. The Council voted unanimously to authorize the settlement in February.
The city wasn?t always so supportive of the project. The price tag for the acquisition, legal fees, clean up, planning and building could cost upwards of $50 million dollars, Mayor Jerramiah Healy explained. He admits it took some convincing to get him on board, but was ultimately won over by the possibility of extending the New Jersey Transit Light Rail along the Embankment, from the Hudson River waterfront all the way to Secaucus.
?You know, we?re always concerned about the bottom line here in Jersey City and you can?t hit the tax payers over the head all the time, so that was a concern,? Healy stressed.
But the success of the High Line across the Hudson has also shown officials what could be possible in Jersey City.
?I would say we get a call almost every week from somebody doing a similar kind of project,? said Robert Hammond, the co-founder and executive director of Friends of the High Line. ?They?re not all elevated rail lines, but they?re just community-initiated projects of reclaiming industrial space and trying use them in different ways.?
Hammond serves on the advisory council for the Embankment, and one piece of advice he passed on is remembering that the High Line wasn?t always what it is today.
?In the beginning almost all the main groups were opposed to it,? Hammond recalled. ?To some people they just thought it was a relic and wasn?t attractive, and would look better torn down. To others, there was a lot of people that [said], ?Oh it?s a great idea but it?s never going to happen.??
Now the High Line is one of New York City?s most popular attractions, drawing more than 7 million visitors since the first section opened in 2009. That was the same year, Hammond toured Jersey City?s Embankment, and was impressed by what he saw.
Hammond thinks the ?Embankment has a whole other feel to it? than the High Line.
?It feels more natural in some ways because of these stone walls. And then what?s growing up there is so much more robust and stronger than anything that was ever growing up on the High Line. In the Embankment, you really feel like you have a forest in the middle of Jersey City,? he explained.
Jersey City Councilman Steven Fulop, whose district encompasses the Embankment, is optimistic that the project will follow in the High Line?s footsteps. ?We think we have an opportunity here to create something at least as powerful, if not better,? Fulop said.
If all three parties agree on the legal settlement, the city could acquire the land in as few as six months. But if the other litigants don?t agree to the terms, another court battle could set the project back five or six more years. With the neighborhood around New York?s High Line booming, city officials are more motivated than ever to see the project through to the finish.
And that excites residents in the neighborhood. Dolores Rennar has lived on 6th Street facing the Embankment for all of her 68 years, and fondly remembers the railroad where her grandfather worked.
?I loved it,? Rennar said. ?The kids used to write their names on the wall, and climb it to get coal.?
?I don?t care what they turn it into,? Rennar added, referring to the plans for the Embankment, ?as long as they don?t take it down.?
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/new-jers ... s/2012/jun/08/embankment/
Posted on: 2012/6/9 3:11
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Home away from home
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Does anyone know if this will still leave a right of way for future light rail?
Posted on: 2012/3/29 17:14
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Home away from home
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I think this is great news. The block on Marin is desolate and in need of development. This is a good compromise to keep the rest of the Embankment as open space or a park.
Congratulations to Steve Hyman, The Embankment Coalition and the City for finally taking a step forward. By working together, I'm sure you can develop something good for the city and the pocketbook.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 15:15
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Home away from home
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This has to do with laws about rail infrastructure that has been abandoned or is in disuse. I don't know all the specifics but there are provisions that give the municipalities in which these assets exist the first right of refusal when the owner (Conrail in this case) decides to sell them.
It does not apply to all privately owned properties and really has nothing to do with you telling your neighbor how to decorate his house, which anyway would be a time-honored tradition. PS - if you live in the historic district you actually are telling your neighbor how to decorate his house - the ourside anyway.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 13:54
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Just can't stay away
 
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Shrewd move. Bravo! He's not going to develop it, he will flip it with approvals for $30 million plus, not bad for an original investment of $3 million. He recovered his original cost and legal fees on the cash offer the City made. Give him credit, it's a very smart move.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 13:48
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Home away from home
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WHY? This is what I don't understand. While I would love to see a highline, park, or whatever, I just don't get how the city can sue someone that bought this legally. Does the city get first chance to buy everything? If so, that really isn't fair. This is the equivalent of me telling my neighbors how to decorate their house, even though I don't own their house. I just feel I should be able to.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 13:46
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Just can't stay away
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Why can't we have nice buildings that take up a city block instead of ugly high rises that have a fenced in lot next to it for years to come.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 13:43
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Home away from home
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35 stories on Sixth and Grove/Manila? Now that is INSANE. Grove Point is only 29 stories and has a much larger base stepping down to 6 stories.
Fail.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 13:38
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Home away from home
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This doesn't sound all that bad to me.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 13:05
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Home away from home
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Normally I would agree, but in this case it seems like this concession to the developer is what it will take to get the settlement approved. Without agreement on the settlement, we have nothing.
Plus we really, really need some new condo buildings down there. What else are we going to do with our excess street/sewer/police/fire infrastructure. 
Posted on: 2012/3/29 12:30
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Home away from home
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hmmmm the smell of greed. Put a sign up at city hall that says Jersey City for sale.
Posted on: 2012/3/29 12:14
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Home away from home
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Jersey City proposes changes that would permit two towers on historic Sixth Street Embankment
Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 7:36 PM By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal The Jersey City City Council gave initial approval tonight to changes to a Downtown redevelopment plan that would allow a developer to build two towers on a portion of the historic Sixth Street Embankment. The changes are required by a tentative settlement the city reached last month with developer Steve Hyman, who has battled the city for years over ownership rights to the embankment. As part of the agreement, the city would purchase most of the roughly mile-long parcel for $7 million, while Hyman would retain one block. Hyman, who purchased the embankment from Conrail in 2003 for $3 million, wanted to develop the entire property. The city, which hopes to use its six-block portion of the embankment to create a Highline-style park, sued, saying it should have been given first crack at purchasing the property. The changes given tentative approval by the council, which only go into effect if the settlement is approved by all parties, would permit construction of the two towers, one 35 stories and the other 45 stories. They could contain a maximum of 400 residential units and 200 hotel rooms. The city Planning Board would not be required to approve any plans to build the two towers. The changes approved tonight would merely amend the Luis Munoz Marin Redevelopment Plan, making construction of the towers possible. The two towers would sit on a parking base, the roof of which would be level with the adjacent embankment block. The parking base would have at least one restaurant, which could be accessed from the city-owned portion of the embankment via a ?decorate and well-appointed? walkway. The measure passed 7-0, with council members Steve Fulop and Michele Massey absent. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_proposes_changes_t.html
Posted on: 2012/3/29 0:05
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Home away from home
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Apologies if this has been covered before...
Is there a relatively convenient way to get up onto any sections of the Embankment now as it stands? There were some wonderful photos posted by stc4blues and I'd like to climb up there myself sometime to take a peek. Hopefully without breaking too many laws (or my neck.)
Posted on: 2012/2/29 15:30
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2012/2/29 13:11
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Ok I can see your point of view (no pun intended). I wouldn?t want hundred?s of tourists looking into my windows everyday either. The one to ten locals who will use the NY..err I mean JC Highline Park everyday would indeed be a more controllable number. (less chance of a real creep being in a smaller group) I like how the embankments artist rendering depicts the 9 people using the JC Highline. ( http://www.embankment.org/render1bweb.jpg )
I guess I will shelve the ?World Embankment at Jersey City? plan. It will sit with other great JC idea?s including Former Mayor Bret Schundler?s idea of a Water Park within LSP. (yes you read it right!)  For those newcomers who want a background on the Water Park in LSP or the NYC Chelsea Piers style recreation area over at the JC car pound lot check this old link out (in the history section of it)?. http://stopbretschundler.com/LSP.htm (it also has some other pieces on projects including the 6th st embankment at the bottom of the page) I will still keep my idea of 6 separate community artsy / recreational area?s on the table though (post #589 above).
Posted on: 2012/2/18 16:50
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I own property that is eye level with the embankment and as such have a vested and aesthetic interest in the development and maintenance that eventually happens there. While I can appreciate thinking out of the box and attempting to do something different than the NY highline, I have to say that this "World Idea" is potentially horrendous. It's like, let's make disneyland fit into 6 blocks! No thank you, I think I just vomited in my mouth a bit.
PLEASE, PLEASE Just make one continuous design that incorporates a modern aesthetic with a respect of heritage and nature. This sounds a lot like the high line but you really have to give it up to those designers they did a great job, let's not screw this up just in the name of being different. Oh and F#$^ Tourism...not gonna happen sorry. Quote:
Posted on: 2012/2/18 3:42
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Home away from home
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The problem is, nothing I've seen from ECG passes the smell test. So using them as a factual basis strikes me as mildly retarded, to put it lightly. It's like using Breitbart or World News Daily as the argument for your facts. To borrow from another thread that got bumped recently, this seems to fall under the heading of lies, damn lies and statistics.
Please tell me how a neighborhood park is going to put a hotel in this area. I'd be dying to read the infinite leaps of faith it takes to go from point A to point U while skipping the rest of the alphabet along the way. I'll give neverleft some creative points, but uh... yea
Posted on: 2012/2/12 22:14
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To continue with the above idea of NOT copying NYC. Let Jersey City have something unique to NYC, to America or maybe the World?
I can see it now The Jersey City ?err I mean The World Embankment at Jersey City. Jersey City is the one of the most diverse cities in the world. Not only now but also back in the day just think of all of the emigrants for all over the world passing through Jersey City from Ellis Island to the LSP rail road terminal. Some even stayed?even though our streets we not lined with gold. Ha, ha. Let?s get the world involved in the design and restoration of the The World Embankment at Jersey City. Here some more idea?s? OK there are 6 separate embankments. Six perfect squares with beautiful stone walls. (an fyi to the people who think the hanging ivy is cool. Yes it is but it is a killer of brick and other masonry. It locks moisture in.) There are 6 world continents. (or 7 or 5 or 4 however you want to look at it). For this project we will shoot for the 6. (unless you want to go with 5 and keep one of the embankments just for JC) 1-Africa 2- The America?s (North America and South America) 3- Australia/Oceania 4-Antartica 5-Eurasia (Europe and Asia) 6-(a vote can be done to decide to break up either number 2 or number 5) Put out a huge media campaign saying that Jersey City is looking for its (and America?s) roots. JC is holding a world wide design contest to design six enclosed squares on JC?s embankment with a theme from each of the 6 continents. Set up a committee to pick one winner from each continent. The 6 winners will have their design actually constructed in the 6 embankments representing the world. (and to the good people (or wildlife) of Antartica plastic snow and ice won?t cut it!) Sort of like The World?s Fair or better yet Disney?s World Showcase. And like Disney have the continents pay for the construction of their embankment. (or hold a penny collecting campaign , hey it worked for Lady Liberty?s base) We will maintain them but let them pay the construction costs. (and unlike Disney World we don?t need them sending over hot young natives to run the small concession stands in each of the embankments. Although if Sweden or Brazil would like to sent some beauties over ..my door is always open.)  Get it? Did it sink in yet? Make The World Embankment at Jersey City something the world has never seen before. If it catches on I am sure some tour (ferry/bus) company would set something up and add The World Embankment at Jersey City to it?s list of must see?s. Next stop?Statue of Liberty, then Ellis Island, last stop The World Embankment at Jersey City. I likey! (throw in some discount coupons for Pole Position and we got it made.) The World Embankment at Jersey City will become a major attraction bringing in big bucks. (maybe you will need to build that hotel on 6th hmmm) One more thing ..remember up above I said you wouldn?t want people walking on a elevated park looking into some ones 3rd floor bathroom window? Well click on the below .jpg from the embankment thread. There are actually 3 Goldman Sacks guys on the bridge pointing and laughing at someone shaving their pits in the bathroom window. And look at that poor woman in yellow on the stairs carrying that new born up the two flights of stairs. I see her hubby running down the sidewalk with the stroller trying to make it to the ramp 6 blocks away. (good thing he is in shape) http://www.embankment.org/render1bweb.jpg www.embankment.org
Posted on: 2012/2/12 18:18
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Home away from home
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Nope, don't think you might. However, since I continue to write, worked as an editor for national newsletter and publish for over forty years, in addition to having worked as a vp, literary agent in the book industry, if you have something you think worthwhile you've written I suggest you get a copy of LMP. In regards to your doubts( read the entire 2011 East Coast Greenway Alliance survey I posted ), come back with specifics of refutation and I'll respond in kind. You've done no work here in your postings but just opine. As that great posthumous Senator from New York, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." 
Posted on: 2012/2/12 16:31
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Home away from home
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You brought up all of those points, not me. Unless you set up your own strawman, then that term isn't applicable. As someone with years in writing and editing, perhaps I can offer you some outside learning? Reasonable rates, of course.
Again, I highly, HIGHLY doubt that constructing a park in a residential neighborhood (a mostly fully developed one, I might add) adds a drop in the bucket into destination tourism. Were this along exchange place, I might feel differently, but given all the current factors: nope.
Posted on: 2012/2/12 16:09
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Home away from home
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I've found that on JCList one must address each "straw man" argument directly lest they become part of the same hubristic myth perpetuated by disingenuous people.
So too wit see my BOLD and BLUE reply below: Quote:
Posted on: 2012/2/12 14:26
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Home away from home
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While I am pro-preservation and love the idea of a Highline in Jersey City, I have some trepidation about the actual hard costs and ongoing O&M. The NY Highline is amazing IMHO but not sure that can replicated here given the surrounding environment of West Chelsea, the meatpacking district, etc. and nor does it have to be. We are not NYC but Jersey City and not inferior. Neverleft makes an interesting point about thinking outside the box and that's a novel approach of individual themed parks for recreational pursuits. I would add one to his/her list of one of the spaces to show films on a large scrim with concession stands serving popsicles and whatnot from local purveyors. Also, one park could be an English Garden or landscaped.
I definitely don't think those structures should be demolished, the walls and ivy on them are beautiful and peaceful. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/opinion/15Rybczynski.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/art ... hline.html?pagewanted=all Quote: neverleft wrote: For once in your newcomer lives why don?t you start thinking on your own and STOP looking to NYC for shi*. You are all freaking copy cats. They have a Whole Foods, you want a Whole Foods. They have an Elevated Park, you want an elevated park. They have a Barcade, you want (and got) a Barcade. What next a floating swimming barge in the Hudson off LSP? How unoriginal of you. Do you think I am going to pay the millions and millions of dollars to not only construct your elevated park but the millions to maintain it? And the millions to settle the law suits from the parents of kids (and drunken hipsters) who fall off of your elevated park? Connecting bridges over every street..you must be on drugs. Think out of the box for once and let NYC look to us! Here is a simple cool idea. I have not read the entire thread and don?t know if anyone else came up with this ingenious (and cheap) idea yet. (but from reading your posts from other threads I doubt it) Why would we want another outdoor park in JC we have enough of them. Do something called WALKING or RIDING A BIKE over to JC?s many parks. The idea of a quiet out of the way park is NOT an elevated park. What peace would it bring? You are going to hear the city noise 10 fold being elevated. (sound rises like heat) Also do you really want to look across the street over into someone?s 3rd floor bathroom window while they shave their legs or pits? (ok creepy calm down) And how fast do you think you can climb down 2 flights of stairs to go after the punk you see breaking into your car 20 feet below? Those pictures someone posted are so breath taking but guess what you could have taken the pictures at street level and had the same effect. Duh. Here do this?.for under $500K ..no under $300K. -put up a BIG sign that says FREE DIRT. (let?s just hope there?s no chromium in it .. maybe a NO RETURNS sign would also help) -dig all of the dirt out of the embankments leaving the beautiful bare stone walls. Patch them if need be. At least you won?t need a multimillion dollar French drain system in the dirt to protect them. -make multiple street level mini enclosed parks on each block (who the F wants to climb two flights of stairs to get to an elevated park..with a baby carriage) Cut entrances into the stone walls, put up cool local artist created gates. (with locks..heavy locks!) -Throw a tennis court in one, a hand ball court (or are you yuppies into bocce ball now) in another. A Jungle Gym for the rug-rat crowd. No hoops though because as you know it always attracts a bad element. (a yuppie with a b-ball is bad news a very ugly sight, especially when they start trying to talk ghetto) - leave a little dirt in each .. make mini elevated park areas with flowers and trees (I?m talking 3 feet dirt mounds not 20 feet) within the walls. (and NO freakin dog walks) Make one just an adult chill park for relaxing (and picking up chicks) ..maybe have one of those fancy Japanese gardens in it with those cool big orange and white fish. (yeah like they would last one night in JC) -the possibilities are endless mini golf, small rentable party space(cover half of one with a glass roof) ,gazebos, music shells (can you image the acoustics for summer time concerts?) One more thing NO bathrooms let people shi* for themselves somewhere else or hold it in. Get the gist of it yet? Enclosed mini parks within the city to SHUT OUT all of the city noise and ugly sights. (not you honey) Not an expensive elevated park that lifts you 20 feet above the city. The same dam city noise and ugly sights just 20 feet higher?no thanks! Let?s get started. Print up some flier?s announcing a design contest. A fresh design with be picked for each blocks mini-enclosed park space. (listen to this old-timer...I posted this just 5 minutes ago and look...a new yorker named maybeMoving is already thinking about moving here.)
Posted on: 2012/2/10 22:56
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