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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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srg1 wrote:
The NBC people also came to discuss the content on PATHVision. Complaints/requests from the group were more news/fewer ads, more NJ content, more train updates and less Talk Stoop. The content has definitely improved over time but has room for improvement. Currently it is updated at 4 AM and 4 PM and I believe it runs on a 40 minute loop. They are working to see if they can have separate loops for the platforms vs. the interior of the trains. Originally they were going to give away 100,000 radios to have sound, but they decided it would not work.


Does anyone else remember the old "Getting TRAIN BRAIN? What about a little TUNNEL VISION?" ad they used to show back in the day? I think it was PATHVision advertising for itself, which seems pretty pointless. What is "train brain" anyway?

Posted on: 2010/10/28 16:29
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The NBC people also came to discuss the content on PATHVision. Complaints/requests from the group were more news/fewer ads, more NJ content, more train updates and less Talk Stoop. The content has definitely improved over time but has room for improvement. Currently it is updated at 4 AM and 4 PM and I believe it runs on a 40 minute loop. They are working to see if they can have separate loops for the platforms vs. the interior of the trains. Originally they were going to give away 100,000 radios to have sound, but they decided it would not work.

Posted on: 2010/10/28 4:10
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Thanks for these reports.

Posted on: 2010/10/28 3:33
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We had the opportunity to challenge the Director about the lack of garbage cans this evening. Someone from the group brought photos of railroads from around the country which have garbage cans on the platforms. The Director of PATH has a security report from post 9-11 which recommends removing the garbage cans. At this point, he is simply not backing down from his stance. He says it is a security risk that he is not willing to take. He says they studied alternatives (clear plastic bags, etc.) but could not come up with something that he felt comfortable with from a security standpoint.

The 8 car PATH trains on the WTC-Newark line have been implemented.

The next improvement in capacity should come in a few years on the WTC-Newark line when the signals are upgraded. They are prioritizing the signal system wide upgrade on that line first.

They are going to come out with temporary use Smartcards to replace the Quickcards. There will not be a fee for these Smartcards. They are also working on a program for automatic replenishment through the pretax payments people make through work. They are also working on some kind of payment system through smartchips on credit cards. I missed a little bit of the discussion on the last point.

One disappointment was that the Cap Ex to build extend the train platforms to accommodate 10 cars is unclear. There have been some cutbacks to the budget and future expenditures are uncertain. But I will say that all the PATH people with met with including the Director want to continue to improve the system and take a lot of pride in what they do. It was quite refreshing. They take complaints and suggestions seriously. However, the system simply has limitations (stations too hot, no elevators at some stations, need additional entrances at some stations) and there is only so much they can do within the constraints of the system and budget.

As an example of a small, practical customer service improvement, they said they now have customer service open at 7 AM instead of 9 AM for rush hour commuters. And they now route weekend calls to someone who may be able to help. They acknowledge that the weekend phone person is not going to be as helpful as during the weekdays, but they did want calls to get through so people can receive assistance.

They previously mentioned that cell phone service will be installed at stations but not in the tunnels. They were not sure on the timing of this.

I complained a lot tonight about the garbage on the tracks. I think it is something easy to fix but it receives too little attention. Tonight was the last meeting but we can still submit suggestions.

Posted on: 2010/10/28 2:00
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Register your concerns at
PathSux

Posted on: 2010/10/26 16:46
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Even though I think it's a silly rule, I think the conductor should have called the police and/or asked the passenger to leave the train.

I have nothing but kind words for the conductors

Posted on: 2010/10/26 4:47
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PATH conductor suspended over no food on train rule

Monday, October 25, 2010

Eyewitness News

JERSEY CITY, New Jersey (WABC) -- A PATH train conductor is off the job, suspended because he may have gone a little too far trying to enforce a no-eating policy on the train.

Riders say the conductor took riders food and threw it out the window, but when two teenagers put up a fight, things got violent.

"This woman was really rude, I had McDonalds and she fussed about me not eating on the train, and I said ma'am I know that," said Fatima Goba.

Regular PATH riders tell Eyewitness News that no eating or drinking signs are posted on the trains, but people often ignore them.

"You see them in the morning with their coffee, their bagels and the conductors don't really say anything," said Jamie Brown.

The Port Authority says PATH conductor Michael Wilson may have done and said a little too much. He's accused of snatching candy from a couple of teenagers on a train at Journal Square, throwing the candy out a train window, and then grabbing the teens, holding them around their necks, against their will.

The Port Authority in a statement said:
"Mr Wilson was suspended without pay pending the outcome of an investigation and hearing on the matter. He is entitled to a hearing which will take place in early November."

Eyewitness News went to Mr Wilson's Jersey City apartment, to ask him about the incident, but was told he'd left for the morning.

Back at Journal Square, one of the largest PATH train hubs, a few riders told us they get nothing but kindness from most conductors.

"Very positive, they've even opened the doors for me after they had closed them," said Sam Watson.

None, though, excused the behavior Wilson is accused of but this regular rider added in light of the no eating or drinking signs posted..

"I try to be mindful of when I have food or drink I throw it away before I get on because I don't want to be yelled at," said Kristin Bredimus.


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=7744693

Posted on: 2010/10/26 3:45
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I have not noticed a "poop" smell. If there is a problem in a specific train car, you should call in the problem, tell the PATH Twitter guy or post it here. I will say that I do not have a strong sense of smell.

Posted on: 2010/10/21 16:57
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Concrete rail ties are stronger and more rigid (and the rigidity probably explains the added noise). The concrete should last longer and stand up to more stress.

Did they say anything as to why the new cars smell like poop?

Posted on: 2010/10/21 13:57
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Tonight we received a tour of the Harrison Repair Station. The PATH personnel told us that every car is inspected every single day. They acknowledged some problems several months ago with the old cars and the new cars. The old cars had resistors that were breaking and they had trouble obtaining replacement parts because the cars are so old. And the new cars had break-in period issues where doors needed adjustments by a couple of millimeters to adjust for the car "settlement." But they like the new cars and the PATH repair crews have adjusted to the new cars. They are on schedule for the entire fleet to be replaced in a year and a half. Thus far, approximately half the fleet has been replaced.

At the Repair Station, we could see old cars and old wheels that were being taken out of system. It was very interesting.

Separately, they mentioned that the trains are louder entering WTC because concrete ties were installed for security purposes. I am not clear on the advantage to concrete ties, but it is what it is.

And, lastly, if I heard correctly, beginning this Saturday, the Newark-WTC line will be running 8 car trains instead of 7 car trains. Sounds like some increased capacity is coming now. Hopefully this information is accurate.

Posted on: 2010/10/21 1:21
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I think the people on the PATH are generally a lot better about getting u for people then they are on the subway. I am disabled but you would not necessarily know it if i did not have my cane or showed you my gimp card.

I use a fold up cane but have a very serious back problem. I have already had a spinal fusion and i am in my late twenties.(i don't need the cane all the time just for long walks, steep stairs, and trains that throw me around like a ragdoll). I have only had two people ever give me crap when i asked for a seat when they were in the disabled person seat. This is out of 4 years of the PATH.

I have also had a rather good experience with people seeing that the train rocking back and forth is putting me in excruciating pain and even if i don't have my cane they offer me a seat.

On the subway, I can be standing in front of someone with my cane crying and I am ignored.

Posted on: 2010/10/14 21:24
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Actually, we discussed standing up for pregnant women last night. The PATH said that they would consider informational campaigns/signs to educate the riders on courteous behavior regarding giving up seats for pregnant women and other issues.

Posted on: 2010/10/14 18:21
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Whats even better is when you get some 15 year old yelling at everyone because apparently they're are pregnant. Hey Im sorry unless you have a visible baby bump I aint movin. I've been looked at like an alien far to many times being a nice guy and giving up my seat to any and every woman.

Posted on: 2010/10/14 18:09
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How about training the riders to stand for pregnant women?

It's unbelievable how NYC subway riders will stand and PATH riders will look down and ignore 8 month pregnant women.

PATH is by far the most unpleasant 18 minute ride I've ever experienced...

Posted on: 2010/10/14 17:30
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I am just writing to say that the PATH personnel have been very informative at the advisory council meetings. I do not have information about the "tossing," but if there are specific instances, you should write down the time and car number and then inform PATH. Or post it here and we can forward it to PATH.

My impression of the organization is that they truly want to provide a better experience for passengers. The PATH system like almost every other public transportation system in the U.S. is run at a loss and there are a lot of limitations in funding and infrastructure. But the organization is open to ideas and change.

Some of the things I learned are that service will not be increased in the near future after midnight to 5 AM because that is when they do track work. It was simply a nonstarter. Also, the Jersey City-Hoboken-33rd Street weekend route is here to stay at least until the new WTC station opens. This was another nonnegotiable item because of construction issues. PATH indicated that there is still a lot of pressure to shut down the WTC line on the weeks because of WTC construction but that they are doing everything they can to keep it open.

We were told that the new signal system is about 5 years away from completion. They said that it will continue to move slowly because they are doing all the work while the system is in operation. They do not have a lot of flexibility in the construction schedule. The current signal system has 8 "blocks" and no more than one train is allowed in each block. The new system will be allow for trains to run much closer to each other because computers will precisely track the trains. And, therefore, PATH will provide this precise information to the customers so we will know how long we will be waiting for the trains.

We have been fighting for garbage cans. So far, "security" has been the counterargument. They said they hired security consultants, etc. We were told that the the head of the PATH system will be speaking to us in 2 weeks and that he made the decision to eliminate garbage cans.

One other note - we said that we were not aware of the New Year's policy against taking alcohol onto the trains. PATH said they would make more of a concerted effort to tell customers that there is a no alcohol (even closed containers) policy on New Year's.

Posted on: 2010/10/14 17:22
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I tried long and hard to figure out the tossing to and fro. Yesterday I was on a new car and the tossing was MISERABLE.
It was far worse for the standees...logical because the higher up you are from the pitch point the longer the swing.

I THINK the new cars have both weaker springs that allow left and right pitching to begin more readily and to increase their amplitude and I think this combines with weaker shock absorbers so the pitching isn't dampened. "So raockaby your naby with a nauseous melody."

I was really knocked around yesterday aftrernoon, stone sober and in the middle of the train. I almmost fell a couple times trying to read the Times...standing braced against a wall

And I agree with robojustin about the constant braking. I once had an uncle that loved to drive the family around to ANYWHERE but his driving style was to accelerate and then hit the brake in 5 second intervals. After 5 miles everyone in the car was sick.
If you cannot safely accelerate without the need to brake in 30 feelt DON'T ACDCELERATE, just roll.

I don't know how the train springs are set up but there is more of a noticeable forward dip on braking on the new cars relative to the old...that I rode for 30 years (both versions.) But that dip is NOTHING compared to the side to side swinging which is going to break bones.

Posted on: 2010/10/9 18:20
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robotjustin wrote:
^^
So you don't stand by the stupid Vonnegut quote?

In any case, to all you PATH defenders -

How can there be ANY circumstance, 40 years after man landed on the MOOOOOOOOOOOOON, that a TRAIN in an UNDERGROUND TUBE - an almost PERFECTLY CONTROLLED environment, should SLAM ON THE TRAIN BRAKES.

Day after day, some inept driver slams on some train brakes. Why? What possible defense could you have? You can't tell me that there is imminent danger - say, an alligator on the tracks. IS there not some system of gradation that could make the trains less dangerous? That could make the stops less abrupt? I think of the elderly, cruelly denied a seat by the inconsideration of young hoodlums and yuppies, being thrown about like bags of bones. I think of the pregnant mother, similarly seatless via the myopia of our age, falling to her belly and miscarrying. I think of the moron who brings his bicycle onto the train during rush-hour, now smashing the bike into the bare legs of short-skirted ladies, snagging flesh and stocking in chain and gear. Why is this carnage not addressed? Why are the supposedly humanistic and liberal denizens of JCLIST so quick to turn a blind eye to the sufferings and injustices perpetrated against the PATH riders by a cruel and uncaring OVERLORD - the PANY/NJ?

Will no one stand up for the rights of the oppressed?


At this point in time, there's no real need for a driver, and certainly no need for a door operator. The second in particular is already unneeded with the new trains.

Posted on: 2010/10/9 17:28
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^^
So you don't stand by the stupid Vonnegut quote?

In any case, to all you PATH defenders -

How can there be ANY circumstance, 40 years after man landed on the MOOOOOOOOOOOOON, that a TRAIN in an UNDERGROUND TUBE - an almost PERFECTLY CONTROLLED environment, should SLAM ON THE TRAIN BRAKES.

Day after day, some inept driver slams on some train brakes. Why? What possible defense could you have? You can't tell me that there is imminent danger - say, an alligator on the tracks. IS there not some system of gradation that could make the trains less dangerous? That could make the stops less abrupt? I think of the elderly, cruelly denied a seat by the inconsideration of young hoodlums and yuppies, being thrown about like bags of bones. I think of the pregnant mother, similarly seatless via the myopia of our age, falling to her belly and miscarrying. I think of the moron who brings his bicycle onto the train during rush-hour, now smashing the bike into the bare legs of short-skirted ladies, snagging flesh and stocking in chain and gear. Why is this carnage not addressed? Why are the supposedly humanistic and liberal denizens of JCLIST so quick to turn a blind eye to the sufferings and injustices perpetrated against the PATH riders by a cruel and uncaring OVERLORD - the PANY/NJ?

Will no one stand up for the rights of the oppressed?

Posted on: 2010/10/9 13:45
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Quote:

robotjustin wrote:
Quote:

ChrisK wrote:
Quote:

robotjustin wrote:
^^^
It's nice that they clean out the crap at point A or Z, but those of us riding in the middle get sticky feet, yesterday's news, today's vomit, and the ever-fun game of "kick the can."


So you propose they stop the trains mid-trip to clean them? Wouldn't that just create more delays? Also, it is the passengers that cause this mess.....not the Port Authority employees.

Quote:

robotjustin wrote:
^^^
I'd much rather the cars were COATED in graffitto and ran more often then wasting time taking tagged cars out of commission.


If you want people to respect the cleanliness of the trains, the trains should look respectable. Despite the amount of grime you already deal with inside the cars, imagine how much worse it would be if the trains looked just like trash cans on the outside.

Just saying.



Reading comprehension not your strong suit, eh? I never said that trains should be taken out of commission - I made the point that a clean car at Newark doesn't do much good for those of us at Harrison, JSQ, Grove, Newport, 9th, 14th, 23rd, or 33rd. Somebody else said that trains ARE taken out of commission for graffito.

BTW - Is Kurt Vonnegut only PRETENDING to be a rotting skeleton?


That wasn't very tactful of you, robotjustin. I was looking forward to a healthy, civil debate.

Posted on: 2010/10/8 14:46
We are what we pretend to be. So we must be careful what we pretend to be - Vonnegut
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Not that either of our anecdotes are worth anything, but I ride the PATH and the L daily on roughly equivalent trips, and the L is ALWAYS on time, a much smoother ride, and a much cleaner and more pleasant experience overall.

As for the PATH being bumpy due to age, you do realize that the LEVEL has existed for thousands of years, and that buildings have been constructed to not topple over since at least the pyramids. Furthermore, the NYC Subway, which as far as I know predates the PATH, is pretty jostle-free comparatively. I don't know why the PATH has such a bumpy ride, but to blame it on it being a a hundred years old is proof of historical ignorance.


Plenty of subway lines are bumpy. Not so much in Manhattan since they primarily run in straight lines under wide avenues. The old red 7s felt like they were gonna come off the tracks. The PATH turns are also much tighter than most subway lines. The main problem is on either side of the Hudson River on the 33rd Street line. It's like they built out the subway on both sides, then dropped the tunnel under the river without regard to where it came out on each side. When it didn't line up, they just jury rigged the connections.

Posted on: 2010/10/8 3:28
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For all the grief we give it, and I give it a lot of grief, PATH is not a bad system. For commuters, we are paying less than NYC residents to get into the heart of NYC. Jersey City has a 24/7 option for transportation, and that distinguishes it from several neighboring towns.

I wish it weren't so crowded in peak hours. And the stations are incredibly sweaty. And coming home late at night, especially if you've had anything to drink, is no fun.

But the system gets you where you need to go. Does it all the time. And is cheap. When my office signed up for Transitcheck, my office mgr was shocked at how little I had to pay compared to the outer borough residents.

In terms of capacity, they could expand trains on the Newark - World Trade Center line by expanding stations. But that's about it. It's actually remarkable how the 100+ year old system has stood the test of time.

Posted on: 2010/10/8 3:21
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RJ,
Glad you love the L, but you've caught it in it's heyday. I rode the L train daily from Rockaway Parkway to my EV high school once upon a time, and I assure you, it was pure skankeriffic torture. The cars were the oldest in the line, and broke down regularly. When I spoke about rats on the subway, I was specifically referencing the dachshund-sized creature that nearly nibbled my jeans at the First Avenue stop. I'm convinced the line got the new subway cars first because the old ones couldn't go another month and they didn't care about using the riders from East New York and Canarsie as their guinea pigs. Please observe the bitching from a few short years ago:

http://gothamist.com/2007/05/22/l_train_crowded.php

I'm happy it's improved enough to both impress you and become a prime pick-up spot for hipsters burrowing their way into Brooklyn.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/no ... rn_UebD8tTwSPIDi7VmuYKpmJ

The PATH is not perfect, and I'm sure the line could benefit from constructive feedback, but it's not the worst I've seen, and most days, I find it downright pleasant.

Posted on: 2010/10/8 3:03
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Not by much but the path, or h&m railroad, predates nyc subways, but that's besides the point because we were comparing it to the dc metro built much later. And most of the path trains are 30 years older than current mta trains, that may account for your bumpy ride. Excuse my 'historical ignorance' I was just assuming that engineeing practices got better with time.

Posted on: 2010/10/7 23:40
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spider wrote:
Quote:

robotjustin wrote:
^^^
Yeah, and Guiliani was the best mayor NYC ever had Pangloss.

If the PATH were interested in safety, the trains wouldn't throw people around like ragdolls. Ride on the DC Metro, for instance, and let me know when you get tossed. Never happens.

It's nice that they clean out the crap at point A or Z, but those of us riding in the middle get sticky feet, yesterday's news, today's vomit, and the ever-fun game of "kick the can."

I'd much rather the cars were COATED in graffitto and ran more often then wasting time taking tagged cars out of commission.

As for cheap, it's about half the cost of driving, which, if timed right, is a much more pleasant experience than the PATH ever is.


uh the path was built like 70 years before the DC metro, of course it won't be as smooth. the path is already cleaner, cheaper, and more pleasant than the MTA like many others have said in this thread and that's good enough for me. if i go to work from my girlfriend's place in brooklyn there's a delay almost every time and i'm late by at least ten minutes. on the path i haven't been late due to a delay in months.


Not that either of our anecdotes are worth anything, but I ride the PATH and the L daily on roughly equivalent trips, and the L is ALWAYS on time, a much smoother ride, and a much cleaner and more pleasant experience overall.

As for the PATH being bumpy due to age, you do realize that the LEVEL has existed for thousands of years, and that buildings have been constructed to not topple over since at least the pyramids. Furthermore, the NYC Subway, which as far as I know predates the PATH, is pretty jostle-free comparatively. I don't know why the PATH has such a bumpy ride, but to blame it on it being a a hundred years old is proof of historical ignorance.

Posted on: 2010/10/7 22:17
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Quote:

ChrisK wrote:
Quote:

robotjustin wrote:
^^^
It's nice that they clean out the crap at point A or Z, but those of us riding in the middle get sticky feet, yesterday's news, today's vomit, and the ever-fun game of "kick the can."


So you propose they stop the trains mid-trip to clean them? Wouldn't that just create more delays? Also, it is the passengers that cause this mess.....not the Port Authority employees.

Quote:

robotjustin wrote:
^^^
I'd much rather the cars were COATED in graffitto and ran more often then wasting time taking tagged cars out of commission.


If you want people to respect the cleanliness of the trains, the trains should look respectable. Despite the amount of grime you already deal with inside the cars, imagine how much worse it would be if the trains looked just like trash cans on the outside.

Just saying.



Reading comprehension not your strong suit, eh? I never said that trains should be taken out of commission - I made the point that a clean car at Newark doesn't do much good for those of us at Harrison, JSQ, Grove, Newport, 9th, 14th, 23rd, or 33rd. Somebody else said that trains ARE taken out of commission for graffito.

BTW - Is Kurt Vonnegut only PRETENDING to be a rotting skeleton?

Posted on: 2010/10/7 22:08
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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From Harsimus Cove
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robotjustin wrote:
^^^
It's nice that they clean out the crap at point A or Z, but those of us riding in the middle get sticky feet, yesterday's news, today's vomit, and the ever-fun game of "kick the can."


So you propose they stop the trains mid-trip to clean them? Wouldn't that just create more delays? Also, it is the passengers that cause this mess.....not the Port Authority employees.

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robotjustin wrote:
^^^
I'd much rather the cars were COATED in graffitto and ran more often then wasting time taking tagged cars out of commission.


If you want people to respect the cleanliness of the trains, the trains should look respectable. Despite the amount of grime you already deal with inside the cars, imagine how much worse it would be if the trains looked just like trash cans on the outside.

Just saying.

Posted on: 2010/10/7 22:01
We are what we pretend to be. So we must be careful what we pretend to be - Vonnegut
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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jerseyboy422 wrote:
Nice story about the Christopher Street station:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/0 ... istopher-st-path-station/


Yeah, that guy is great.

Posted on: 2010/10/7 21:11
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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From jazzy city
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robotjustin wrote:
^^^
Yeah, and Guiliani was the best mayor NYC ever had Pangloss.

If the PATH were interested in safety, the trains wouldn't throw people around like ragdolls. Ride on the DC Metro, for instance, and let me know when you get tossed. Never happens.

It's nice that they clean out the crap at point A or Z, but those of us riding in the middle get sticky feet, yesterday's news, today's vomit, and the ever-fun game of "kick the can."

I'd much rather the cars were COATED in graffitto and ran more often then wasting time taking tagged cars out of commission.

As for cheap, it's about half the cost of driving, which, if timed right, is a much more pleasant experience than the PATH ever is.


uh the path was built like 70 years before the DC metro, of course it won't be as smooth. the path is already cleaner, cheaper, and more pleasant than the MTA like many others have said in this thread and that's good enough for me. if i go to work from my girlfriend's place in brooklyn there's a delay almost every time and i'm late by at least ten minutes. on the path i haven't been late due to a delay in months.

Posted on: 2010/10/7 20:01
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Nice story about the Christopher Street station:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/0 ... istopher-st-path-station/

Posted on: 2010/10/1 19:34
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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From Exchange Place
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Mike wrote:
Somewhat off topic, how do you like this map from the 80s showing our region with Hudson County at the center? http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubesenglis ... rpened-optimized-1024.gif


I love this map. They used to give them out. I think I still have it.

Posted on: 2010/10/1 18:42
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