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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
 
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jc97, now you know what the private sector experiences - congratulations!!
Posted on: 2010/9/11 19:50
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Not too shy to talk
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What you don't understand is the fact that each and every teacher is not receiving a 4% increase in pay. Only those teachers who have reached a particular step on the salary guide are due for this type of increase. A teacher looking at this kind of an increase is one who has been working towards it for TEN YEARS earning next to nothing for that amount of time (considering many have Master's Degree level educations). So, someone who has been scraping by for ten years is finally up for a decent raise and is told/asked to forgo it and then they are blamed for being greedy for not wanting to? This is bullshit. When times are good nobody says, "Gee, teachers are underpaid let's give them a bonus." I want my children's teachers to be paid well, not scraping by or having to work two jobs to keep afloat.
Posted on: 2010/9/11 19:21
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Salaries depend not only on job function but also on industry. So while an administrative assistant in financial services may make a lot of money, an accountant who works in retail may not.
Before posting the numbers I will say that I am VERY in favor of trashing tenure, boosting salaries and adding performance based bonuses. Given the importance of education to the long term sustainability of our country, I think the education field should be a competitive place to work. I think we should be drawing teachers from top colleges with top grades and the only way I think that will happen is by paying more. That being said, since we don't have a competitive market today, teachers salaries don't seem the worst here in Jersey City and the median teacher makes basically what a median accountant makes in Jersey City. Below are numbers pulled from 2010 HR data on salary.com - you have to ensure it has truly captured your zip code to avoid national averages (I am assuming the data on this site is valid - I know it is for my industry.) JC Public School Teacher Benefit Median Amount Base Salary $59,619 Bonuses $0 Social Security $4,561 401k / 403b $2,266 Disability $596 Healthcare $6,103 Pension $2,981 Time Off $7,338 Total $83,463 Accountant 2 (there were three options, so I chose the mid option) Benefit Median Amount Base Salary $60,766 Bonuses $1,396 Social Security $4,755 401k / 403b $2,362 Disability $622 Healthcare $6,103 Pension $3,108 Time Off $7,651 Total $86,763 When you take into account that the year is shorter for a public school teacher by two months, you can see the effective median gross salary would be a bit higher, closer to $100,000. So actually if I had a child trying to choose between becoming an accountant and a teacher, I would recommend teacher because of the summer benefit (basically same salary but an additional 2 months off!) Again, I'm all for raising those salaries by a lot to get the best and the brightest - but it has to come with a competitive market (which at minimum requires getting rid of tenure.)
Posted on: 2010/9/10 10:49
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2010/9/10 6:05
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2010/4/13 20:48
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Not at all, Bill. I understand that. But there is definitely a secondary current of "teachers don't work hard for their money" and that somehow just by saying the words "private sector" things are automatically better. (I do understand the funding paradigms for each.) If people want to introduce numbers to support their notion that teachers are overpaid (as the Star Ledger graph was indicating) then let's talk about what the private sector really is and have an honest conversation around it.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 14:55
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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These days it's a bit tough to separate what is and what is not funded by taxpayers.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 14:11
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Quote:
You missed the whole point, the private sector is generally not funded by taxpayers.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 13:54
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Let's talk for a minute about this much venerated, largely mythical, idealized "private sector." I've worked in it for 20 years. You really think that by merely being a part of the "private sector" human beings somehow grow a work ethic or a sense of responsibility? Sure people get fired, but it's typically the result of economic contraction rather than poor performance. At every place I've worked the secretaries make as much or more than the teacher salaries being quoted here. And guess what? The composite version of those secretaries spends 70 percent of their day managing the social crisis of the day of their teenage daughter, gossiping about reality TV shows, sensationalizing the two inches of snow that will fall in three days so they will be justified in not making it in to work, and gossiping on the phone with friends about TV shows once they've exhausted the gossip partner inventory at work. If everyone is being honest here, large corporations have their share of fat and underperformers - same as the schools and state and local government. Home Depot is the private sector - every third person I encounter in there is miserable to deal with. Same with Pathmark (except more so.) Call Comcast and deal with them on the phone and you'll want to scream for an hour. The "Private Sector" is not the hyper-efficient, uberproductive realm of the idealized human that people on here like to pretend that it is.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 13:42
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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I am a former teacher and NJEA member. I see no problem with skipping raises for this year so that teachers can keep their jobs. Lots of people in the private sector aren't getting raises or bonuses, but they are happy to still have a job..
When they lay off teachers you can bet they are going to round up the usual suspects; art and music teachers, coaches, aides, reading specialists, etc. The real losers will be the kids. Such a shame. This is my problem with unions. They can be so unwilling to bend.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 13:14
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Just one of many jobs out there.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 12:38
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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2009/5/15 4:26 Last Login : 2017/12/25 1:59 From here to eternity
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Christie shows the way
Christie shows the way Last Updated: 4:28 AM, April 1, 2010 Posted: 12:50 AM, April 1, 2010 Meanwhile, west of the Hudson, rookie New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie has a better idea. As usual. With a $10.7 billion state budget gap, Christie needs to slash $800 million in school aid -- which could mean severe teacher layoffs across the Garden State. But the governor has advanced a plan meant not only to avert, or at least mitigate, layoffs -- but also to deliver a little extra cash to school districts. He wants New Jersey's teachers to forgo temporarily a scheduled 4 percent pay hike this year -- saving as much as $500 million and sharply reducing pressure for layoffs. If they do, the state would save some $38 million in wage-related, state-funded federal payroll taxes and associated costs -- money Christie says he'll pass along to localities. A district that saves $1 million in wage costs by freezing salaries, he says, would get back $75,000 in state aid. That may not seem like much -- but, notes Christie, "Maybe that helps to fund another teacher position or two, or a sports program they might otherwise have to cut." As for the teachers, he adds, "We're not talking about forgoing raises forever," just "for one year." And at a time when one in 10 Jersey residents is out of work, that's not an unreasonable proposal. So what does the New Jersey Education Association -- the state's teachers union -- think? No surprise: thumbs down. Just as New York State United Teachers this week rejected a similar suggestion that Assemblyman Sam Hoyt estimated would save $1 billion -- almost as much as Gov. Paterson proposes to cut from New York's schools. Fortunately, not all NJEA members feel the same way -- teachers in West Essex, Montclair, Boonton and Metuchen have all accepted the wage freeze. And how likely would that have been had the teachers suspected that Christie wasn't serious about the layoffs? True, New York is different from New Jersey -- especially regarding the administration of public eduction. But clear-headed toughness usually pays dividends everywhere. Albany should try a little.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 12:02
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Newbie
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I'm sorry, but I've worked both in the "private" sector and in teaching. Teaching is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy easier. The first few years are tough. But after you've gotten the hang of things and know how to handle kids, it becomes so much easier. In fact, it becomes so repetitive and almost boring. Your numbers are off on salary. You must know that it's extremely difficult to fire a tenured teacher. It is possible, but is really really hard and costs the district in the hundreds of thousands in legal fees and suspension pay to actually follow through.
Many teachers are competent and professional. But so many suck horribly and count down the minutes daily until the bell rings. What allows them to drift by? Tenure.
Posted on: 2010/4/1 2:01
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Just can't stay away
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It looks like that chart is from a Star-Ledger editorial
http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2010/02/post_7.html Here are a bunch of letters to the editor pro / con the chart and the editorial http://blog.nj.com/ledgerletters/2010/03/post_1.html A question for the teachers; if grading and reading papers, preparing for classes etc., takes several hours a day, why do you negotiate a contact that ends at 2:55 pm?
Posted on: 2010/4/1 0:23
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Quote:
That might be the dumbest "statistic" I've ever seen. "Private sector" could mean anything from guy selling hot dogs on the corner to CEO of Fortune 500 company. Does that average tell you anything? A more useful comparison might be private sector employees with college degrees vs. teachers.
Posted on: 2010/3/31 19:08
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Wow great bar graph. It doesn't say for the top 3 what town because as we all know salaries for those jobs vary from town o town. How long theyved worked those jobs. Or rank. As for the private sector is that deflated by statistics of retail grunts who make only 10 an hour? Come back with some real data.
Posted on: 2010/3/31 18:40
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Just can't stay away
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YEAH, you tell-em!!!! If you want to make more money, have more vacation, get better benefits, guaranteed pensions, and demand raises that are paid by everyone, someone, or ANYONE (but ideally future children through more debt so we don't have to worry about it now - hey, it's all for the children anyway!), then FIND A NEW JOB! Here are some new career options for you, for all you suckers out there: 
Posted on: 2010/3/31 18:05
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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It would be a good thing teacher positions were extremely competitive, came with high compensation, and had checks and balances to ensure performance. It would attract more of the best and brightest to the field. First responders also! It is kind of troubling?these are the people coming to save your life if you get in an accident and are dying. Imagine if those positions were held in such high regard and had such high compensation that only the smartest and most capable members of our society qualified. I am not saying we don?t have some of those people in either of those positions. I am saying in capitalism reward comes from the ability to make a profit, not a difference? I agree with capitalism, but I have no idea how to solve this.
Posted on: 2010/3/31 16:57
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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None of those teachers above make over 100k. Six figures these days isn't a whole lot of money. If you are not making six figures after putting in 20 years than that is the road you have taken. If your goal is to make money then switch jobs. Plenty of careers that you can earn six figures if you work hard and are ambitious. A lot of sales jobs have six figure potential within 3 years.
Posted on: 2010/3/31 14:50
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Just Beautiful! Nothing like some fact rather than anonymous propaganda. Ex: Ferris teacher- Masters, 16 years experience, $94,660, English as a 2nd Language, classes taught: 3 Dickinson, Bachelors, 17 years experience, $80,160 English Non-Elementary classes 3 ES 16, Bachelors 22 years experience $92,910 Elementary School Teacher K-5, 6 classes ES 16 Bachelors 9 years experience $58,273 Elementary Kindergarten-8 Grade classes 6 (This one directly contradicts the OP's statement about what one makes after 8 years with no grad degree) I know lots of people 20 years into their careers who would be happy to be making this kind of money with those kind of benefits. Teachers should get respect as an integral part of what makes our civilization work. But the constant misleading public whining during negotiations about how little they're paid actually hurts our schools by scaring off bright high achieving college grads who might otherwise become teachers. (don't even get me started on how the ridiculously overpaid finance sector distorts everyone's sense of worth so that MIT physicists end up as wall street quants)
Posted on: 2010/3/31 14:27
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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If you work more then 40 hours a week not including lunch find a new job. No one gets into teaching for the money. Now cutting administrators and course coordinators could be a good idea.
Also remember most teachers grade papers and work at home. They work waaay more then 40. If you have a problem with teachers send them a message, home school your child. You obviously think you know how to educate better and what its worth.
Posted on: 2010/3/31 14:24
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Just a few suggestions
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FACT: Looks like a lot do, maybe you should change it to not all teachers make 6 figures. Quote:
Just because the sick days are there for those reasons, does not prevent the fact that one carry over the sick days to get a big payout. Quote:
You should change that to government employees, I don't know any salaried private workers who work < 40 hours a week.
Posted on: 2010/3/31 14:06
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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If you want to know what teachers make, you can look here:
http://php.app.com/edstaff/search.php (This is for last year.)
Posted on: 2010/3/31 12:58
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Just can't stay away
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If only ALL teachers could be as responsible as you...I know a whole bunch that need to either retire or find a profession they actually enjoy. So many teachers seem so bitter and take it out on the students.
Posted on: 2010/3/31 0:59
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Quote:
LOL
Posted on: 2010/3/30 22:32
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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What recent postings about teachers? I don't know anyone that think teachers are overpaid. They work very hard and kids today suck big time. Exactly right. Most teachers are hardworking and put up with an unimaginable amount of crap from the kids and their parents (but mostly the parents).
Posted on: 2010/3/30 22:18
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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Not according to Bill's tone.
Posted on: 2010/3/30 22:17
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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What recent postings about teachers? I don't know anyone that think teachers are overpaid. They work very hard and kids today suck big time.
Posted on: 2010/3/30 21:45
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Newbie
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This was created by a Jersey City teacher who wishes to remain anonymous, but wants everyone to feel free to print it out, copy it, and share it with anyone who needs to read it.
Posted on: 2010/3/30 21:33
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Re: Jersey City Teacher Facts
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Home away from home
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source?
Posted on: 2010/3/30 21:25
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