JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe [Crime & Safety]

Re: Loud Bars Must Go!

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ezola wrote: I totally agree. We had same issues with Barrow Street Bar. I used to live on Mercer and Barrow and I couldn?t stand the place... I think that bar goers simply don?t get it- they show no respect whatsoever. They come for few hours a day and act like they own the neighborhood. Bar owners know well about the issues and noise complaints, but they don't care... Mobilize your neighbors. Send a signed petition to the Mayor?s Office. If this does not help file a lawsuit! Every business can be closed and any license can be revoked! If you pay hefty property taxes or rent every month, you deserve quiet days and nights, especially in a nice residential neighborhood.

Yet another quite thoughtful post from someone who actually lived near a bar, and knows from first-hand experience! You raise some important points which need to be explored: * The owners know their bar is loud and it's pissing people off. The short-sighted view is that when the music is loud, everyone is having more fun. Etc. I think Barrow takes this principle too far, and cranks the music so high that even the people in the bar can't take it. That's especially true on trivia night because of the blond guy. Indios does the same. If their speakers were focused away from the doorway it would probably be much better. Maybe The Lamppost blares it, too, but they don't have open doors, and in fact they have a second set of doors. So does Abbey's. That said, I was at Lamppost the other night and the place was rowdy and the folks were drinking and smoking outside, all over the sidewalk, until at least 230/3 in the morning. There was not a peep from Latin Lounge, though. That said, I have personally been "reprimanded" by Chris at Barrow St for being loud and smoking out front. So, we went to the side by the bench. Much of a change? Maybe not, but he showed an effort in the right direction and has read this site in the past, so he does understand. * Sound travels through the air, and moreso on cold nights or with less humidity. The speakers are not focused on keeping the sound inside, so some nights will be even louder. * The louder the music gets, the louder the people get... to shout over it. * Owners believe that the louder the bar... the more fun is had and boisterous is the crowd and the more money is made. Maggie from Skinner's does not feel this way. * When there are many bars in a row, the one that's fullest/ rowdiest might wish to compete, as by advertising it's fun-ness through loud music. But here, we have neighborhood bars. If you're on that corner, you've come that far and you're about to make your decision. A decent crowd should be enough for you. Few people need have the party needs of G-N-R and 2Live Crew. So, the music can be down if the crowd is having fun. * There is the 80/20 rule. 80% of profits come from 20% of your customers. Namely, return customers. For neighborhood bars, this is about who feels welcome there, who lives nearby, and who likes the food/ crowd. * A loud and obnoxious bar culture obviously pisses off many neighbors, making enemies out of them and likely losing their business forever even at happy hour. There are ways to bring the neighborhood on board, or at least, not piss them off as much: * Keep the music down. We don't need Gym Class Heroes blaring at 150 db at 230am. A quality sound system, and a DJ with good taste, is always better than the owner's plan. Don't let the bartenders mess with it too much if they don't know what they're doing, and try to equalize the volume on your playlist so not every song is so damn loud. Make sure you know whether your pc/ ipod/ or receiver is the best way to do the controls. * Restrict smokers. Enforce it upon them, through your bouncer (Barrow does not have one, but Lucky's does) that respecting the neighbors is the cool thing to do. Post signs reminding them of this. Enforce it. * If you have to "ban" someone, they'll probably be back. (Though I've heard that Barrow kicked somebody out and they came back with a vengeance.) * Thick windows and double-doors muffle sound. This should not be a surprise. There may be an expense. * Fans and a good A/C will keep it cool inside, allowing you to keep the doors closed. * Respect the neighbors. Bad press goes far. Obviously this town is changing, and when I go to Barrow and Lucky's I see many faces I've never seen. Owners know this and they want these return customers. But blaring the music making a horrorshow scene can't un-do whatever problem of uncleanliness (taps, glasses, bathrooms), bad food, bad service, bad lighting, clutter, etc. If the neighborhood "rallies" as the thread urges, it may force a response. But, it doesn't need to get to that point.

Posted on: 2009/6/7 12:31

ezola

Re: Loud Bars Must Go!

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brewster wrote:
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DragonXJC wrote:
Have any of you been inside "Music Box" or whatever you people call it? We call it Maria's, the owner's name, and I'ma regular. I've never been in any type of "fracas" in all my years of going there, I've introduced so many coworkers to this bar and they love it. I see how some of you are targeting the spanish and black owned bars as the nuisance.

There's alot of exaggerating going on, almost all bars have drunks that spill into the street. Especially up the block, but then again, it's a cop bar. Before you moved to your converted overpriced former crackhouses you knew their were bars in the area. And probably got a discount because of it. A once in a while drunk is just a caveat of living next to a bar.

This is simply disingenuous and self serving nonsense. "Neighborhood bars" serve the neighbors, and they know that people live all around the bar and are considerate. The hoodlooms who patronize this place are not downtown locals, they all have driven there. They act like barbarians every single weekend, screaming, blasting music, and liberally distributing trash and bottles everywhere. I constantly have to pick Corona and Heineken bottles out of my flower beds.

The people who fight tooth and nail against issuing liquor licenses are right, though I didn't see it that way when I first moved here. But then I didn't know there was almost no way for the community to get a license revoked, and that they transfer with the property indefinitely once issued.

Finally, DragonXJC, (does the X mean you no longer even reside here?) when I bought my home that bar was closed, as it had burned. Did someone finally have enough back then and took matters into their own hands?

I totally agree. We had same issues with Barrow Street Bar. I used to live on Mercer and Barrow and I couldn?t stand the place. I had enough of every night noise and bull..t and moved out. Friday and Saturday nights were the worst. My friend still lives there, and says that it?s getting even more miserable. She says that they keep the door open every night (don?t ask why-maybe the cheap owner is saving money on AC), and you can hear the music and stupid loud laughs until 2-3 am. She is considering a serious legal action against this bar. I know that some property owners are getting very impatient and fed up with this business.

I think that bar goers simply don?t get it- they show no respect whatsoever. They come for few hours a day and act like they own the neighborhood. Bar owners know well about the issues and noise complaints, but they don't care. It?s time to take some action. Talking to a business owner would not change anything (especially to a jerk owner). They make lots of $ and this is much more important than some whining neighbors.

Mobilize your neighbors. Send a signed petition to the Mayor?s Office. If this does not help file a lawsuit! Every business can be closed and any license can be revoked! If you pay hefty property taxes or rent every month, you deserve quiet days and nights, especially in a nice residential neighborhood.

Posted on: 2009/6/7 7:31

PBW

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe 7/20, 3AM

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I live down the street. I am not a prude but I would say that this bar is rowdier than most. The occasional "buffet" they have includes a portable charcol grill in the middle of the sidewalk.
patrons are constantly hanging out with full beers either on the sidewalk in front, the middle of the street or by their cars. I have lived directly above a loud bar in the past which didn't bother me, but I wouldn't want to live above this one.

On another note, I went in there in the middle of the day once. Two patrons and the bartender (don't know if it was the owner) were very nice. Too bad things change on the summer weekends.

Posted on: 2009/6/3 2:49

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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DragonXJC = Maria = "I don't give a damn about anyone around me."

Posted on: 2009/6/1 21:13

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Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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i like DragonXJC's Kannekt review

Editor's rating of this review - 5/5

Review - The locals know it as Maria's , because that's the owners name. The bartenders are all female, Dominican, and beautiful. It's not a place for the yuppies,(sorry no wine or margaritas!), It's an actual bar. Play pool, dance a merengue/bachata/reggaeton with one of the waitress or bar regulars. Never any rowdiness just a good time. Not for the pampered it is a no frills Spanish bar.

There's no food, unless it is a holiday, then Maria throws down a proper Dominican buffet.
Reviewed by - El Dragon (2007-12-23 )

Posted on: 2009/6/1 20:23

brewster

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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DragonXJC wrote:
Have any of you been inside "Music Box" or whatever you people call it? We call it Maria's, the owner's name, and I'ma regular. I've never been in any type of "fracas" in all my years of going there, I've introduced so many coworkers to this bar and they love it. I see how some of you are targeting the spanish and black owned bars as the nuisance.

There's alot of exaggerating going on, almost all bars have drunks that spill into the street. Especially up the block, but then again, it's a cop bar. Before you moved to your converted overpriced former crackhouses you knew their were bars in the area. And probably got a discount because of it. A once in a while drunk is just a caveat of living next to a bar.

This is simply disingenuous and self serving nonsense. "Neighborhood bars" serve the neighbors, and they know that people live all around the bar and are considerate. The hoodlooms who patronize this place are not downtown locals, they all have driven there. They act like barbarians every single weekend, screaming, blasting music, and liberally distributing trash and bottles everywhere. I constantly have to pick Corona and Heineken bottles out of my flower beds.

Reputedly the reason there's no enforcement is the owners are connected to the Police and Corrections. One night there was a pimped out car parked in my driveway, so I went into that damn place and shouted that the red sports car was going to get towed. A big side of beef tottered out and explained that he was a corrections officer. I asked what that had to to do with illegally parking and keeping me out of my property. He just kept repeating it.

The people who fight tooth and nail against issuing liquor licenses are right, though I didn't see it that way when I first moved here. But then I didn't know there was almost no way for the community to get a license revoked, and that they transfer with the property indefinitely once issued.

This whole thing reminds me of the Smoking Wars, where smokers argued that it's their God given right to pollute the air other people have to breath. Here, it's apparently a right to make everyone living withing blocks miserable so Maria can run her business. This is no different than the wink given to PPG to dumping chromium for decades, crapping up JC for your own enrichment is a time honored tradition.

Finally, DragonXJC, (does the X mean you no longer even reside here?) when I bought my home that bar was closed, as it had burned. Did someone finally have enough back then and took matters into their own hands?

Posted on: 2009/6/1 17:25

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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let's not leave women out of this. the video from the bar featured a strong woman asserting herself. we're probably just biased against susan b anthony, jane fonda, the women's liberation movement, womyn generally, en vogue, women dropping the f/c/p/b/d-bomb at three in the morning, and let's just throw in martina navratilova, too, because she's tough as well. we fear (and loathe?) women, and that's why this behavior is so bothersome. there is no other explanation

Posted on: 2009/6/1 11:51

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Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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icechute wrote:
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I see how some of you are targeting the spanish and black owned bars as the nuisance.

Not for nothing, but the a-holes yelling in the video sound like one of the groups you refer to.

Just pointing it out; nothing more.

Can I add to this:

Oh, Please. Nobody is targeting minorities. Please stop hiding behind that lame excuse. Obama's president now so just cut it out.

And I'd bet that most of the people you accuse of targeting minorities voted for him.

Martin Luther King dreamed of a country where people would be judged, not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. From the looks of that video, the guys from that bar had some bad content to their characters.

Posted on: 2009/6/1 11:23

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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I see how some of you are targeting the spanish and black owned bars as the nuisance.

Not for nothing, but the a-holes yelling in the video sound like one of the groups you refer to.

Just pointing it out; nothing more.

Posted on: 2009/6/1 4:17

linky

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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I'm rarely out after eleven, and I don't live that close to this bar so I didn't really know what people were talking about. However, I drove past there last night at about eleven p.m., and it was a zoo. Cars were double parked with people hanging out and one car had a radio blasting the bass. People were all over the street going back and forth to get fish from the fish place.

It was really loud. I can't imagine living across the street. I don't know if last night was typical, but from what I saw it was way over the top of what's acceptable.

Posted on: 2009/5/31 19:59

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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DragonXJC wrote: Have any of you been inside "Music Box" or whatever you people call it? We call it Maria's, the owner's name, and I'ma regular. I've never been in any type of "fracas" in all my years of going there, I've introduced so many coworkers to this bar and they love it. I see how some of you are targeting the spanish and black owned bars as the nuisance. There's alot of exaggerating going on, almost all bars have drunks that spill into the street. Especially up the block, but then again, it's a cop bar. Before you moved to your converted overpriced former crackhouses you knew their were bars in the area. And probably got a discount because of it. A once in a while drunk is just a caveat of living next to a bar.

I'm only targetting the bars that caused me and my neighborhood problems. Those were Indio's and Latin Lounge. "Minority"-owned or not, they had a diverse crowd of jerkoffs out in the street at 3am. It's not that Lamppost didn't have problems, but they had their patrons in a little more control: just people smoking outside, etc., not having fights with each other or having sex with prostitutes in their cars in front of my building. Yes, really. I lived there for most than two years, so don't tell me that the fact you didn't see it means it didn't happen. By the way: don't assume everybody downtown is in a condo. We're not. We're working people, like you, and pay rent and taxes and have families and need sleep. Do you live across the street from a bar? Is your property value affected by drunks and reggaeton at 3am? If it were, you'd be more sympathetic. I've never been to Maria's. I don't even know where it is. Maybe you've never seen a fracas there... which proves nothing... but the poster did, and video taped it. That guy lives across the street, so I'm willing to believe him. Or maybe you're not there at 3:30 in the morning. And then on the "Smoking in bars and restaurants" thread you're saying you've love it if some random guy got tangled up in a fight at Maria's place, as if he did something wrong by noticing a fracas, pointing it out, and making a judgment about the bar based on that experience. And then a "regular" patron talks sh*t with him for it. How very welcoming of you. Do you always speak for Maria when you open up the red carpet? Long story short: it's your corner bar and you're trying to defend it with your first-hand experience measured against their first-hand experience. You're biased, and so are they, but the dude's got a video of the absurdity that you love.

Posted on: 2009/5/31 18:48

jaah37

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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DragonXJC wrote:
Have any of you been inside "Music Box" or whatever you people call it? We call it Maria's, the owner's name, and I'ma regular. I've never been in any type of "fracas" in all my years of going there, I've introduced so many coworkers to this bar and they love it. I see how some of you are targeting the spanish and black owned bars as the nuisance.

There's alot of exaggerating going on, almost all bars have drunks that spill into the street. Especially up the block, but then again, it's a cop bar. Before you moved to your converted overpriced former crackhouses you knew their were bars in the area. And probably got a discount because of it. A once in a while drunk is just a caveat of living next to a bar.

Nobody is TARGETING spanish or black owned bars or any other bar for that matter. When an outburst or scene is created by unruly patrons (like the one caught on video in this thread), the bars attract attention all by themselves. When the problems occur repeatedly the bars are labeled as problems and scourges to our neighborhoods. The inability of the bars in question to control their patrons accompanied by lack of police enforcement is why these problems persist AND escalate. When they start to effect peoples quality of life crackdowns on the establishment are needed to reinstill order. Bars need to work with their neighbors they co-exist with.
When an outburst occurs police need to arrest the unruly people who start the problem...not just chase them away!

Posted on: 2009/5/31 17:21

DragonXJC

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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Have any of you been inside "Music Box" or whatever you people call it? We call it Maria's, the owner's name, and I'ma regular. I've never been in any type of "fracas" in all my years of going there, I've introduced so many coworkers to this bar and they love it. I see how some of you are targeting the spanish and black owned bars as the nuisance.

There's alot of exaggerating going on, almost all bars have drunks that spill into the street. Especially up the block, but then again, it's a cop bar. Before you moved to your converted overpriced former crackhouses you knew their were bars in the area. And probably got a discount because of it. A once in a while drunk is just a caveat of living next to a bar.

Posted on: 2009/5/31 16:58

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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icechute wrote:
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wouldn't paint all bars in residential areas with the same brush. I've been to and lived near plenty that are responsible neighbors and do their part to co-exist for the most part without incident. Beyond yelling "SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CALL THE COPS, GET OUTTA HERE" even.

That sounds great except when you do have places like the Music Box, Latin Lounge, the old JC Winstons, etc. that are a nuisance to residents (for all the reasons we've been through) and there is no police response, ABC enforcement, etc.

Agreed with both points above. The police response is sometimes slow, but when I've called the cops for streetfights outside of Indio's they got there quickly. Also, don't give the pricks a warning. These fights can escalate or deescalate in a second, so you've got to give the cops as much time as possible to get there. It's an unpleasant job, but paying taxes = getting gov't services. The same goes for ABC enforcement. They might not care if bars are marrying bottles or selling Bud as Stella, but they damn well should care for the heavy stuff.

Some people don't want to be "that guy" who shouts out the window, etc. "It can instigate, there could be race tensions, they'll think I'm a gentrifier, it's my neighborhood and I have to live with them. Etc." So, instead, they let a bunch of twats from some other neighborhood roll through and screw up the neighborhood. I always like blame Bayonne and Union City, no matter what "kind" of bar it is, because blaming Greenville and The Heights is played out. Letting it perpetuate, without personal or government intervention, is why these problems grow. It's why the neighbors around Barrow Bar complain on JC List instead of trying to talk to Chris (I think) about the noise. They've let it grow and grow, didn't intervene smartly and early, and the cops couldn't be bothered.

Of course, there's a lot of drunk driving too. Most downtowners do a bar crawl the old fashion way: on foot. But at Indios, for example, I saw a lot of people getting into their cars. Latin Lounge had at least one drunk driving (vehicular assault?) problem in 2008 if I'm not mistaken. They're not the only ones. I don't care if you have a drinking problem, but if you get behind the wheel, you are a sorry sack of sh*t and deserve nothing but scorn and chrome bracelets. This town is too dense for that sort of sh*t. When I see JCPD flaunting the law, whether here or down the shore, it makes me sick.

Unfortunately, the Jersey Shore is a good example for policing: there are lots of cops watching drunk and disorderly, public urination, drunk driving, etc. They're pricks, but at least they're out there making sure closing time is done right.

Posted on: 2009/5/30 17:31

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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Quote:

icechute wrote:
Quote:
wouldn't paint all bars in residential areas with the same brush. I've been to and lived near plenty that are responsible neighbors and do their part to co-exist for the most part without incident. Beyond yelling "SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CALL THE COPS, GET OUTTA HERE" even.

That sounds great except when you do have places like the Music Box, Latin Lounge, the old JC Winstons, etc. that are a nuisance to residents (for all the reasons we've been through) and there is no police response, ABC enforcement, etc.

When there is no guarantee from the local government that reasonable quality of life laws will be upheld, you get the reaction that NO bars should be allowed in these areas.

Or more accurately, the OVERREACTION that NO bars should be allowed in these areas.

Posted on: 2009/5/30 17:20

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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wouldn't paint all bars in residential areas with the same brush. I've been to and lived near plenty that are responsible neighbors and do their part to co-exist for the most part without incident. Beyond yelling "SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CALL THE COPS, GET OUTTA HERE" even.

That sounds great except when you do have places like the Music Box, Latin Lounge, the old JC Winstons, etc. that are a nuisance to residents (for all the reasons we've been through) and there is no police response, ABC enforcement, etc.

When there is no guarantee from the local government that reasonable quality of life laws will be upheld, you get the reaction that NO bars should be allowed in these areas.

Posted on: 2009/5/30 15:51

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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I wouldn't paint all bars in residential areas with the same brush. I've been to and lived near plenty that are responsible neighbors and do their part to co-exist for the most part without incident.

Beyond yelling "SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CALL THE COPS, GET OUTTA HERE" even.

Posted on: 2009/5/30 15:35

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Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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That video is exactly why so many people are rightfully against bars in our residential neighborhoods.

i dont know if id consider music box a bar. its more like thunderdome with alcohol. i dont know how this place still has a liquor license...

Posted on: 2009/5/30 13:57

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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That video is exactly why so many people are rightfully against bars in our residential neighborhoods.

Posted on: 2009/5/27 19:08

Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe

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The hits keep coming. Between 2am and 3am Memorial Day weekend. I would love to say this is a rare occurrence...or that I amplified the sound somehow. ***CAUTION**** profanity in audio

Posted on: 2009/5/27 15:40

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Re: Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe 7/20, 3AM

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designknob wrote:
If there were consequences for "dumbass behavior" all of JC would be locked up.

Couldn't agree more.

Posted on: 2008/7/24 15:27

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Yet another dramatic episode at New Music Box Cafe 7/20, 3AM

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Last night my wife woke me up and said "I think there's a fight outside."

I looked outside and this guy was screaming at the top of his lungs at apparently everyone. I couldn't really tell what it was all about, I was still groggy. Two cop cars and an ambulance show up, block 7th street for at least 20 minutes while several people scream at each other and no one gets taken to jail.

I really feel for anyone who has kids on this block, especially if they sleep on the ground floor.

Posted on: 2008/7/20 16:04